How can we pick post-marriage names that satisfy our contradictory criteria?
August 14, 2007 8:28 AM Subscribe
How can my boyfriend and I combine our names in a way that works for both of us?
We're looking toward marriage as an almost inevitable conclusion at this point, and so we're having lots of talks about ifs and whethers and what-do-we-do-whens. Oddly, the question of what we'll do with our names has become a huge deal. So, here are our positions:
-He doesn't believe that people are "truly married" unless they share a last name. However, he is willing to change his last name to anything except my full last name (he is in a male-dominated and weirdly macho field; I agree with him that he would never live it down, and also we're of different races and my name would not be believable on his body, so he'd be fielding questions for the rest of his life). He will change his name to literally anything else, though, including nonsense words and common nouns. He is hesitant to hyphenate because he suspects that computer systems would get it wrong a lot, and it would be more trouble than it's worth for a rather unwieldy pairing of names.
-I always figured I would keep my last name and am sort of insulted by his stance, as my mom kept her name and I think my parents' marriage a pretty good one. I'd like something where either neither of us or both change their last names; I don't want to append his last name to mine, pretty much taking on a new last name, while he doesn't have to experience the kind of jarring feeling that I think I'd have answering to a new name. My name is meaningful to me as I was somewhat close to my paternal grandfather and like the association with him. I also don't really want to hyphenate. Basically, I really would like to keep my name, but can't reconcile that with his feelings.
So, there we are. We've looked at a lot of different combinations of the syllables of our names, since then we could both get new last names that would be equally both of ours, but all the combinations sound like fast food chains or web 2.0 startups. Our names don't go together well; if you think you have a special gift for throwing together names, my email is in my profile.
What I'm looking for is other options we haven't thought of, reasons why changing my name isn't so bad, other last name schemes we could use, resources on why hyphenation is a decent way to go, etc. I'm not looking for a lot of bluster about how wrong he is (this thread kind of makes me think we have a lot of people here who will side with me). Having the same last name is important to him but he's been almost infinitely flexible about how that can happen, so I can't really fault him.
Eesh, this is complicated. Anyway, do what you can. We're at wit's end here.
We're looking toward marriage as an almost inevitable conclusion at this point, and so we're having lots of talks about ifs and whethers and what-do-we-do-whens. Oddly, the question of what we'll do with our names has become a huge deal. So, here are our positions:
-He doesn't believe that people are "truly married" unless they share a last name. However, he is willing to change his last name to anything except my full last name (he is in a male-dominated and weirdly macho field; I agree with him that he would never live it down, and also we're of different races and my name would not be believable on his body, so he'd be fielding questions for the rest of his life). He will change his name to literally anything else, though, including nonsense words and common nouns. He is hesitant to hyphenate because he suspects that computer systems would get it wrong a lot, and it would be more trouble than it's worth for a rather unwieldy pairing of names.
-I always figured I would keep my last name and am sort of insulted by his stance, as my mom kept her name and I think my parents' marriage a pretty good one. I'd like something where either neither of us or both change their last names; I don't want to append his last name to mine, pretty much taking on a new last name, while he doesn't have to experience the kind of jarring feeling that I think I'd have answering to a new name. My name is meaningful to me as I was somewhat close to my paternal grandfather and like the association with him. I also don't really want to hyphenate. Basically, I really would like to keep my name, but can't reconcile that with his feelings.
So, there we are. We've looked at a lot of different combinations of the syllables of our names, since then we could both get new last names that would be equally both of ours, but all the combinations sound like fast food chains or web 2.0 startups. Our names don't go together well; if you think you have a special gift for throwing together names, my email is in my profile.
What I'm looking for is other options we haven't thought of, reasons why changing my name isn't so bad, other last name schemes we could use, resources on why hyphenation is a decent way to go, etc. I'm not looking for a lot of bluster about how wrong he is (this thread kind of makes me think we have a lot of people here who will side with me). Having the same last name is important to him but he's been almost infinitely flexible about how that can happen, so I can't really fault him.
Eesh, this is complicated. Anyway, do what you can. We're at wit's end here.
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- cortex
Make it a portmanteau of your current names. You're both represented and it solves the societal problem of infinitely extending hyphenated names.
Or just change it to "Portmanteau." Pretty classy, no?
posted by contraption at 8:44 AM on August 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
Or just change it to "Portmanteau." Pretty classy, no?
posted by contraption at 8:44 AM on August 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
Perhaps he would be mollified by something equally permanent like (trite?) matching tattoos? A permanent monument?
posted by unixrat at 8:44 AM on August 14, 2007
posted by unixrat at 8:44 AM on August 14, 2007
Have you considered picking a last name unrelated to either of your exist names? You could go for place names, perhaps related to where you first met, or where you will live once you are married. For that matter, you could get a little silly and use "de (Location)", so you would be Crinklebat "of (someplace)".
Also, as far as keeping your last name, have you thought about making it your middle name? I know several people who have done that when getting married.
posted by fings at 8:45 AM on August 14, 2007
Also, as far as keeping your last name, have you thought about making it your middle name? I know several people who have done that when getting married.
posted by fings at 8:45 AM on August 14, 2007
I work in the macho field of construction (although I'm a woman). I can guarantee you, any combining of names or changing of names or otherwise messing around with his name would result in non-stop teasing and taunting by the guys in the way only construction guys can, as well as non-stop confused questions from the women in any of the places I've worked. So if that's the issue, he may as well take your name.
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:47 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:47 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Whose last name would your child(ren) use if you both had a different one.
posted by metacort at 8:48 AM on August 14, 2007
posted by metacort at 8:48 AM on August 14, 2007
I was also thinking along the lines of your grandfather's first name, something that has meaning but also indicates a new start for your family.
If you haven't considered it yet, I'd also suggest using your current last name as a middle name. Your husband could change his middle name as well. It's not as complicated and unwieldy as a hyphenated name, but still lets you use your unmarried name as part of your signature whenever you want to.
posted by saffry at 8:48 AM on August 14, 2007
If you haven't considered it yet, I'd also suggest using your current last name as a middle name. Your husband could change his middle name as well. It's not as complicated and unwieldy as a hyphenated name, but still lets you use your unmarried name as part of your signature whenever you want to.
posted by saffry at 8:48 AM on August 14, 2007
That "truly married" only if they share a last name thing is total bosh. That's a control freak talking. If he likes his name, he should keep it. If you like your last name, you should keep it. That's really the only fair thing. You both get the name you want and no more (in the sense that neither of you get to decide any more than your individual surnames.)
You should also mention to him that in many parts of the world, and throughout much of human history, a shared name is not something ever considered necessary. I know loads of people in less "progressive" countries than America who do not share a surname, and in some countries, such as Iceland, the idea is nearly impossible except in rare cases, because one's surname is formed from one's father's first name, plus -son or -dóttir, as the case may be, and that's who you stay throughout life.
Despite his willingness to come up with a "new" surname, his attitude seems "weirdly macho" to me. Who is controlling whom here? You want to keep your name, it's as simple as that.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 8:48 AM on August 14, 2007
You should also mention to him that in many parts of the world, and throughout much of human history, a shared name is not something ever considered necessary. I know loads of people in less "progressive" countries than America who do not share a surname, and in some countries, such as Iceland, the idea is nearly impossible except in rare cases, because one's surname is formed from one's father's first name, plus -son or -dóttir, as the case may be, and that's who you stay throughout life.
Despite his willingness to come up with a "new" surname, his attitude seems "weirdly macho" to me. Who is controlling whom here? You want to keep your name, it's as simple as that.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 8:48 AM on August 14, 2007
I'm sympathetic to the idea that if you don't want to change your name, maybe you shouldn't do it. But a possible compromise might be for you to change yours (eg hyphenate, or whatever) legally, but use your current name in your professional and social lives 100% of the time. So he will be happy that you are now legally Mrs HisName, or Mrs YourName-HisName, and you can be happy that in everyday life, at work and with your friends and so on, you are Ms YourName.
That is a compromise that has a number of drawbacks, and one of those is that it doesn't meet your initial goal of having the exact same last name. If that is a deal-breaker, then ignore this and move on. The way you've described your situation, though, it looks like someone will have to give up on something that they aren't willing to do, and that is a tough situation.
posted by Forktine at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2007
That is a compromise that has a number of drawbacks, and one of those is that it doesn't meet your initial goal of having the exact same last name. If that is a deal-breaker, then ignore this and move on. The way you've described your situation, though, it looks like someone will have to give up on something that they aren't willing to do, and that is a tough situation.
posted by Forktine at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2007
You just take his last name on the marriage certificate and keep working and living professionally in your personal circles with your own last name.
Your real problem is gonna be naming your kids, if you're having any.
posted by poppo at 8:51 AM on August 14, 2007
Your real problem is gonna be naming your kids, if you're having any.
posted by poppo at 8:51 AM on August 14, 2007
He thinks "computer systems would get it wrong a lot" if you hyphenated your names together? Sounds like a pretty weak excuse to me... make it easy. Hyphenate. People have been doing it for generations, and neither of you lose anything.
posted by nkknkk at 8:52 AM on August 14, 2007
posted by nkknkk at 8:52 AM on August 14, 2007
Just throwing out ideas... but, maybe you can go back into your personal genealogy(-ies) and find an actual family name that suits you both. Sort of like, "Ah, let's pick "Tailor" because it occurred in my family 13 generations ago, and your grandfather was a tailor." I've seen people name children this way, choosing a name that evokes someone on both sides of the family.
Do your names come from different language bases? If so, maybe you could translate/shift one of them in order to yield a new name that you feel connected to. E.g. if one name is "Young," what's a word that means "young" in the language that the other name comes from? If you were able to translate your last name, maybe you'd still feel connected to it and your family.
Ways to pick random names to make them less so: Use the name of the month in which you met; use a place name that has meaning to both of you; take on the name of a favorite you both share (author, world leader, fictional character).
posted by xo at 8:52 AM on August 14, 2007
Do your names come from different language bases? If so, maybe you could translate/shift one of them in order to yield a new name that you feel connected to. E.g. if one name is "Young," what's a word that means "young" in the language that the other name comes from? If you were able to translate your last name, maybe you'd still feel connected to it and your family.
Ways to pick random names to make them less so: Use the name of the month in which you met; use a place name that has meaning to both of you; take on the name of a favorite you both share (author, world leader, fictional character).
posted by xo at 8:52 AM on August 14, 2007
change yours (eg hyphenate, or whatever) legally, but use your current name in your professional and social lives 100% of the time
This will cause you untold trouble over the years when people assume that your social name is your legal name.
posted by grouse at 8:59 AM on August 14, 2007
This will cause you untold trouble over the years when people assume that your social name is your legal name.
posted by grouse at 8:59 AM on August 14, 2007
http://ask.metafilter.com/18652/Weddings-and-name-changes#308712
What really tipped the scales for me was talking with a female attorney at my firm, she came up in the early eighties when the legal profession was not terribly women-friendly, and when she married, she kept her name. She has a daughter, and her husband passed away a year ago. She said that she now regrets not changing her name, because she doesn't have the same last name as her daughter, and the person that connected them isn't there to fill that gap. She seemed profoundly sad that she didn't share her daughter's name.
That right there is the reason I cite whenever I'm asked whether I'll be changing my name or not. I love my future husband, and I've got to think about the long term.
posted by lizzicide at 8:59 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
What really tipped the scales for me was talking with a female attorney at my firm, she came up in the early eighties when the legal profession was not terribly women-friendly, and when she married, she kept her name. She has a daughter, and her husband passed away a year ago. She said that she now regrets not changing her name, because she doesn't have the same last name as her daughter, and the person that connected them isn't there to fill that gap. She seemed profoundly sad that she didn't share her daughter's name.
That right there is the reason I cite whenever I'm asked whether I'll be changing my name or not. I love my future husband, and I've got to think about the long term.
posted by lizzicide at 8:59 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
My wife and I discussed this issue extensively before we married. She wanted a way to continue her name but was willing to take mine as a last resort. Turns out that we agreed to name a boy her last name as a first name. She took my last name. We also made the middle name of every child a family name from her side.
This does not address the issue of changing your (her) name, but it was a way for her family names to continue. All of our children are proud of their middle names and understand the significance behind them. The son with her name is also very happy having his grandparents name.
Also, I know woman who use their maiden name professionally and their husband's name socially. Is the decision binary? Why not use either name depending on the situation?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2007
This does not address the issue of changing your (her) name, but it was a way for her family names to continue. All of our children are proud of their middle names and understand the significance behind them. The son with her name is also very happy having his grandparents name.
Also, I know woman who use their maiden name professionally and their husband's name socially. Is the decision binary? Why not use either name depending on the situation?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2007
The computer is not going to mess up a name with a hyphen in it. That issue was tackled eons ago (in computer time). If you find a mistake later on, it will originate from a person's error.
posted by onhazier at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2007
posted by onhazier at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2007
Place both your names in the Internet Anagram Server and see if anything interesting comes up.
posted by ShooBoo at 9:02 AM on August 14, 2007
posted by ShooBoo at 9:02 AM on August 14, 2007
Along the lines of changing both your middle names to a common name, you could also both change your middle name to the other's family name, or change your names to add a second middle name in common (it's not uncommon to have two or three middle names) while keeping your own names.
posted by jamuraa at 9:09 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by jamuraa at 9:09 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I do not think it is "weirdly macho" for him to want the two of you to share a surname, marriage is a lifelong commitment and it seems to me that an unwillingness to identify yourselves as a family implies a temporariness that is in my opinion completely contrary to the basic idea of marriage=permanent union between two people.
My mom took my fathers last name as her primary last name, without the hyphen, but when she writes it out she puts down HHHH BBBB. I like that because we are the BBBB family, and its not mom has one name, dad has another, and the kids have whatever they decided. We are all BBBB, and I do not think of myself as a mysogynist but it would be important that my family be the BBBB family.
That being said I and all of my siblings have my mothers maiden name as a second middle name. So I am Bobbydigital MMMM HHHH BBBB when I bother to write the whole thing out, maybe something like that would be acceptable to you.
posted by BobbyDigital at 9:09 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
My mom took my fathers last name as her primary last name, without the hyphen, but when she writes it out she puts down HHHH BBBB. I like that because we are the BBBB family, and its not mom has one name, dad has another, and the kids have whatever they decided. We are all BBBB, and I do not think of myself as a mysogynist but it would be important that my family be the BBBB family.
That being said I and all of my siblings have my mothers maiden name as a second middle name. So I am Bobbydigital MMMM HHHH BBBB when I bother to write the whole thing out, maybe something like that would be acceptable to you.
posted by BobbyDigital at 9:09 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Ugh, my fiance and I are grappling with this right now ourselves and it's driving me bonkers.
We both like the idea of having the same last name as we start our own family, but we each have our own attachments to our surnames. So we're at this point where neither of us think it's fair for the other one to change their name, but we do want the same last name - if nothing else, we realize it would be much easier for all concerned and we want the "family unit" feel.
My best solution so far has been to take my surname as as middle name or double first name, as use all three names all the time. If people can have names like Lee Anne and Mary Margaret I think I could get away with being "Given Maiden Hisname" since it would only be 6 syllables total and it flows well. I realize people will mess it up, but if I'm occasionally called "Given Hisname," or a hyphen gets thrown in there it wouldn't be too bad. We could keep the tradition and give any children my surname as a middle name as well (which they could drop or use in common conversation as they chose).
I do like the idea of looking back in each of our family histories to find a common surname though - then we both would be changing but keeping family connection at the same time. Maybe we should do a little searching in our genealogies to see if it could even work - we do both have some Scottish heritage.
posted by nelleish at 9:11 AM on August 14, 2007
We both like the idea of having the same last name as we start our own family, but we each have our own attachments to our surnames. So we're at this point where neither of us think it's fair for the other one to change their name, but we do want the same last name - if nothing else, we realize it would be much easier for all concerned and we want the "family unit" feel.
My best solution so far has been to take my surname as as middle name or double first name, as use all three names all the time. If people can have names like Lee Anne and Mary Margaret I think I could get away with being "Given Maiden Hisname" since it would only be 6 syllables total and it flows well. I realize people will mess it up, but if I'm occasionally called "Given Hisname," or a hyphen gets thrown in there it wouldn't be too bad. We could keep the tradition and give any children my surname as a middle name as well (which they could drop or use in common conversation as they chose).
I do like the idea of looking back in each of our family histories to find a common surname though - then we both would be changing but keeping family connection at the same time. Maybe we should do a little searching in our genealogies to see if it could even work - we do both have some Scottish heritage.
posted by nelleish at 9:11 AM on August 14, 2007
I vote for combining your existing last names into a portmanteau or checking out the anagram server to jog your imaginations. What junkbox said about choosing a name from your family tree is a good idea, too.
My parents gave me a hyphenated last name (back in the 70's, when it was less done, granted), and it's always been more trouble than it's worth. Many people seem to have a hard time understanding the concept of a hyphenated name (even though they're fairly common), and many computer databases don't seem to able to handle hyphens. I'm constantly being told that my records don't exist, and then it usually turns out that they thought the first half of my hyphenated name was my middle name and filed it under the wrong letter of the alphabet. I even had to get my Social Security record corrected when I applied for financial aid for college. So I personally recommend hyphenating your names as a last resort.
posted by I love to count at 9:16 AM on August 14, 2007
My parents gave me a hyphenated last name (back in the 70's, when it was less done, granted), and it's always been more trouble than it's worth. Many people seem to have a hard time understanding the concept of a hyphenated name (even though they're fairly common), and many computer databases don't seem to able to handle hyphens. I'm constantly being told that my records don't exist, and then it usually turns out that they thought the first half of my hyphenated name was my middle name and filed it under the wrong letter of the alphabet. I even had to get my Social Security record corrected when I applied for financial aid for college. So I personally recommend hyphenating your names as a last resort.
posted by I love to count at 9:16 AM on August 14, 2007
In my opinion hyphenating is a poor choice because you're punting the problem to your children. What happens when your son John X-Y marries Julia A-B and they have children? It seems like a single generation solution (Plus, my friends who have hyphenated last names disliked them enough to each pick one part of their name and go by that).
posted by true at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by true at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
What I'm looking for is other options we haven't thought of...
Smith. Johnson. Williams. Jones. Brown. Et cetera.
If you're locked into the idea that your surname needs to carry "meaning," then maybe that option isn't for you. But since you mentioned computers and practicality, it's worth considering that common names confer instant anonymity and nobody ever asks how they're spelled.
posted by cribcage at 9:25 AM on August 14, 2007
Smith. Johnson. Williams. Jones. Brown. Et cetera.
If you're locked into the idea that your surname needs to carry "meaning," then maybe that option isn't for you. But since you mentioned computers and practicality, it's worth considering that common names confer instant anonymity and nobody ever asks how they're spelled.
posted by cribcage at 9:25 AM on August 14, 2007
Seems like he compromised and you didn't. Maybe you need to give a little.
posted by smackfu at 9:30 AM on August 14, 2007
posted by smackfu at 9:30 AM on August 14, 2007
i don't like hyphenated surnames.
i would never change my own name, but if i loved her enough, i would marry her no matter what her name was. i have no more right to dictate my partner's name than she has to dictate mine.
i suggest picking a brand new, impressive, somewhat fanciful surname. howbout "rosebud" or "excelsior"?
posted by bruce at 9:32 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
i would never change my own name, but if i loved her enough, i would marry her no matter what her name was. i have no more right to dictate my partner's name than she has to dictate mine.
i suggest picking a brand new, impressive, somewhat fanciful surname. howbout "rosebud" or "excelsior"?
posted by bruce at 9:32 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
However, he is willing to change his last name to anything except my full last name (he is in a male-dominated and weirdly macho field; I agree with him that he would never live it down, and also we're of different races and my name would not be believable on his body, so he'd be fielding questions for the rest of his life).
As jamesonandwater says, altering his name by even a single letter is going to catch him a bunch of shit. Men altering their names after marriage is rare, and therefore weird and worthy of scorn in the eyes of a lot of people (jerks).
It's entirely possible he's not going to know who these people are till it's done. A good friend of mine and his wife hybridized their names and didn't hear one word from his parents about it... till post wedding when they decided to passive-aggressively continue to use his original name, including on purchased plane tickets. You can imagine how much fun THAT made the airport.
posted by phearlez at 9:33 AM on August 14, 2007
As jamesonandwater says, altering his name by even a single letter is going to catch him a bunch of shit. Men altering their names after marriage is rare, and therefore weird and worthy of scorn in the eyes of a lot of people (jerks).
It's entirely possible he's not going to know who these people are till it's done. A good friend of mine and his wife hybridized their names and didn't hear one word from his parents about it... till post wedding when they decided to passive-aggressively continue to use his original name, including on purchased plane tickets. You can imagine how much fun THAT made the airport.
posted by phearlez at 9:33 AM on August 14, 2007
I would ask the original poster the following question:
Since you are so attached to your last name because of your paternal grandfather, how did he get his last name? Could it be that he was given that last name because his parents were married and his mother took on his father's last name?
I am with lizzicide on this one.
posted by remthewanderer at 9:40 AM on August 14, 2007
Since you are so attached to your last name because of your paternal grandfather, how did he get his last name? Could it be that he was given that last name because his parents were married and his mother took on his father's last name?
I am with lizzicide on this one.
posted by remthewanderer at 9:40 AM on August 14, 2007
Does your paternal grandfather or another beloved relative have a first or middle name that could work as a last name? Is there a place name that has particular resonance with either of you, either because generations of either family lived there, or you met there? Are there any neat-sounding words in either of your ancestral languages that would describe the two of you together? Instea
While I understand the desire to share a last name, expressed by BobbyDigital and others, there is a lot of misogynist baggage that goes along with the expectation that it will be the woman who does so. And any man who thinks there isn't some misogyny involved is free to change his own name.
This is a tough problem.
posted by Mavri at 9:42 AM on August 14, 2007
While I understand the desire to share a last name, expressed by BobbyDigital and others, there is a lot of misogynist baggage that goes along with the expectation that it will be the woman who does so. And any man who thinks there isn't some misogyny involved is free to change his own name.
This is a tough problem.
posted by Mavri at 9:42 AM on August 14, 2007
I went through this when I got married. I eventually decided to change my last name to my husband's because it meant a lot to him, but I was dreading it. I'd gotten my degrees and my licenses with my name, I'd started a career with my name, I'd accomplished a lot with MY NAME. I didn't want to change it!
But, you know what? After I did it, it didn't matter. The angst and wailing and gnashing of teeth just wasn't worth the transition. I was still the same person. I still had the same accomplishments. It was fine.
Another thing - keep in mind that society is set up with the idea that women will change their names. It's fairly easy and painless. When I changed my name it was mostly free (except for $5 to get a replacement driver's license). It's costly to go through a legal name change, which is what your boyfriend would have to do. I have a friend who changed her name just because she didn't like it, and with all the legal charges I think it cost around $200.
Some things aren't worth the fuss. For me, this was one of those things. Of course, YMMV.
posted by christinetheslp at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2007
But, you know what? After I did it, it didn't matter. The angst and wailing and gnashing of teeth just wasn't worth the transition. I was still the same person. I still had the same accomplishments. It was fine.
Another thing - keep in mind that society is set up with the idea that women will change their names. It's fairly easy and painless. When I changed my name it was mostly free (except for $5 to get a replacement driver's license). It's costly to go through a legal name change, which is what your boyfriend would have to do. I have a friend who changed her name just because she didn't like it, and with all the legal charges I think it cost around $200.
Some things aren't worth the fuss. For me, this was one of those things. Of course, YMMV.
posted by christinetheslp at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2007
I had these discussions once with an ex-fiancee. The best idea we had was to draw on the Swedish heritage /tradition and append the word "son" to our father's name. Of course, to make this fair, we would combine our father's names into a hybrid name prior to concatenating "son."
My dad's name is Bruce; Her dad's name was Rick. A good hybrid of these names is Brick. Append "son" and you get Brickson.
Had we married, Brickson might now be my last name.
------------------
I've since married someone else. We each kept our last names. Part of the rationale for that was that our common first names differ by only one letter; A different last name seemed like it might be easier to keep things straight in documentation. We had a son 3 years ago together, who has my last name. My wife's wedding-anniversary gift to me (us) this year was to change her last name to mine, because, well, it really is a hassle to not all have the same last name.
posted by u2604ab at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2007
My dad's name is Bruce; Her dad's name was Rick. A good hybrid of these names is Brick. Append "son" and you get Brickson.
Had we married, Brickson might now be my last name.
------------------
I've since married someone else. We each kept our last names. Part of the rationale for that was that our common first names differ by only one letter; A different last name seemed like it might be easier to keep things straight in documentation. We had a son 3 years ago together, who has my last name. My wife's wedding-anniversary gift to me (us) this year was to change her last name to mine, because, well, it really is a hassle to not all have the same last name.
posted by u2604ab at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2007
Something to consider is whether either of you have significant professional accomplishments or advanced degrees under your current last name. If you're C. Lastname on 50 publications and you become C. NewLastname, does that make it harder for people to track you professionally and therefore diminish your professional standing? Also, I think I remember hearing that it can be difficult to change professional certifications to a new name, so if he's Dr. HisLastname, it may be hard to become Dr. NewLastname. This might not be true, you'd want to research it if it's a possible issue.
Also. You can always change your name later. You could agree to not do anything for a year, and then on your one-year anniversary, revisit the issue. Maybe you'd have come up with a great new last name you both love and that has deep personal meaning, like where you spent your honeymoon, or maybe he'll discover that you feel like a family even with different last names.
I'm not married and don't plan on changing my name if I do get married, so I'm biased. But, to me it sounds like you really don't want to change your name and he really wants to have the same name. The obvious solution here is that he change his name your last name, and screw what people think. I think it would be pretty awesome to mess with people's preconceived notions about what race someone with a particular name "should" be, and it might be good for his coworkers to join the 21st century.
posted by min at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2007
Also. You can always change your name later. You could agree to not do anything for a year, and then on your one-year anniversary, revisit the issue. Maybe you'd have come up with a great new last name you both love and that has deep personal meaning, like where you spent your honeymoon, or maybe he'll discover that you feel like a family even with different last names.
I'm not married and don't plan on changing my name if I do get married, so I'm biased. But, to me it sounds like you really don't want to change your name and he really wants to have the same name. The obvious solution here is that he change his name your last name, and screw what people think. I think it would be pretty awesome to mess with people's preconceived notions about what race someone with a particular name "should" be, and it might be good for his coworkers to join the 21st century.
posted by min at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2007
As other people in the thread have indicated, he's being unrealistic if he thinks he won't get shit for changing his name in a "weird macho field." So he shouldn't change his name at all.
Now we're left with whether you should change your name or whether he should get over his belief that people aren't truly married unless they have the same last name. His belief is entirely a question of definitions, while your changing your name would cause you a great deal of hassle, make you unhappy, play into the unpleasantly anti-feminist history of marriage, and in a number of ways start your marriage off on the wrong foot.
He should get over this idea that people need the same name to be "truly married."
posted by BackwardsCity at 10:06 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Now we're left with whether you should change your name or whether he should get over his belief that people aren't truly married unless they have the same last name. His belief is entirely a question of definitions, while your changing your name would cause you a great deal of hassle, make you unhappy, play into the unpleasantly anti-feminist history of marriage, and in a number of ways start your marriage off on the wrong foot.
He should get over this idea that people need the same name to be "truly married."
posted by BackwardsCity at 10:06 AM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
There's nothing wrong with taking your birth name as a middle name, but it's not an equal solution, and it is not the same thing as keeping your name. In most of the cases I've seen, people pretty much stop using the woman's middle name after a while.
posted by transona5 at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2007
posted by transona5 at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2007
Re: changing your name on paper to firstname yourlastname hislastname and using your maiden name professionally. In certain fields, this incredibly common (academia, journalism, anything where your professional reputation is linked to your name in print) -- straightening out confusion really isn't that big a deal.
Alternately, you could take each other's last names as middle names. So you'd be firstname hislastname yourlastname. He would be firstname yourlastname hislastname. This keeps the "name=bond" thing without actually changing the last name that either of you use.
posted by desuetude at 10:13 AM on August 14, 2007
Alternately, you could take each other's last names as middle names. So you'd be firstname hislastname yourlastname. He would be firstname yourlastname hislastname. This keeps the "name=bond" thing without actually changing the last name that either of you use.
posted by desuetude at 10:13 AM on August 14, 2007
Being married is significantly more than sharing a name. My wife and I came from different cultures, in her family the women kept their maiden names, so she kept her maiden name.
Was never a big deal for me, although my mother persisted in writing letters with the hyphen for a couple of years or so before she got onboard.
Keep your name, he will get over it and it is respectful of your culture.
posted by arcticseal at 10:16 AM on August 14, 2007
Was never a big deal for me, although my mother persisted in writing letters with the hyphen for a couple of years or so before she got onboard.
Keep your name, he will get over it and it is respectful of your culture.
posted by arcticseal at 10:16 AM on August 14, 2007
just a data point from a different culture that might help. here, as far as i understand things, neither person changes their name on marriage, but children take both surnames.
so "alice smith" and "bob jones" would have a child "jules smith jones"
that may seem inconsistent, because the number of names increases each generation, but in fact the parents have two surnames and only pass one each to the child. so it would be more like:
"alice smith cooke" and "bob jones colley" have a child "jules smith jones".
there are some conventions that associate first/second surnames with male/female family lines (and which in chile favoured the male line), but the law has just been changed to make it a free choice (afaik).
in your case this would mean you keep you surnames, but your child would take both as a "double barelled" surname. that might be a workable solution if the main reason you feel it's "proper" to have a common name is for future children.
posted by andrew cooke at 10:17 AM on August 14, 2007
so "alice smith" and "bob jones" would have a child "jules smith jones"
that may seem inconsistent, because the number of names increases each generation, but in fact the parents have two surnames and only pass one each to the child. so it would be more like:
"alice smith cooke" and "bob jones colley" have a child "jules smith jones".
there are some conventions that associate first/second surnames with male/female family lines (and which in chile favoured the male line), but the law has just been changed to make it a free choice (afaik).
in your case this would mean you keep you surnames, but your child would take both as a "double barelled" surname. that might be a workable solution if the main reason you feel it's "proper" to have a common name is for future children.
posted by andrew cooke at 10:17 AM on August 14, 2007
If you go the portmanteau route, you at least have an example of a fairly macho guy who hasn't been handicapped by it...except that now he's getting divorced. (Oops.)
And call me naive, but I imagine anyone who gives him shit for changing his name would be disarmed by being looked square in the eye and being told, "I love her."
posted by kittyprecious at 10:17 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
And call me naive, but I imagine anyone who gives him shit for changing his name would be disarmed by being looked square in the eye and being told, "I love her."
posted by kittyprecious at 10:17 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
On the surface this situation looks like a problem, but it can more usefully be viewed as an opportunity for one of you to make a really meaningful expression of love to the other that they can remember with pride every time they see your names written together.
In other words, the fact that your last name is very important to you means that if you choose to give it up, that act is hugely significant. Likewise if he wasn't attached to the idea of you both having the same last name, then it wouldn't be a big deal for him to accept your not changing it, but because it does matter to him it becomes a real gesture of love and respect for him to accept that both your names will stay the way they are.
If you adopt this perspective I think you may find that things naturally sort themselves out one way or the other.
posted by teleskiving at 10:19 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
In other words, the fact that your last name is very important to you means that if you choose to give it up, that act is hugely significant. Likewise if he wasn't attached to the idea of you both having the same last name, then it wouldn't be a big deal for him to accept your not changing it, but because it does matter to him it becomes a real gesture of love and respect for him to accept that both your names will stay the way they are.
If you adopt this perspective I think you may find that things naturally sort themselves out one way or the other.
posted by teleskiving at 10:19 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
It boggles my mind that somebody can believe their marriage is somehow diminished by their spouse's name. Amazing.
My wife and I married later in life and she already had a substantial career tied to her name, so she didn't want to change it. It never occurred to me to think anything critical about it. What the Hell does it matter?
posted by daveleck at 10:26 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
My wife and I married later in life and she already had a substantial career tied to her name, so she didn't want to change it. It never occurred to me to think anything critical about it. What the Hell does it matter?
posted by daveleck at 10:26 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
while he doesn't have to experience the kind of jarring feeling that I think I'd have answering to a new name.
To me this is the weird part in your post. Personally, I think wives taking their husbands' names is really creepy, and I'd never want a woman who I married to take mine. But that's because it's redolent of husbands treating wives as property, whereas your reason seems to be because you want your husband to have to suffer awkwardness like you. You seem willing to give up your specific name, and happy to give strangers the impression that you took your husband's name (which is how it would appear if you chose a third name).
In other words: there are excellent reasons for a woman to keep her name, but you do not seem to have these excellent reasons: your reason seems a bit petty. In all honesty, then, maybe that is the bit you should let go of, and take his name.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:29 AM on August 14, 2007
To me this is the weird part in your post. Personally, I think wives taking their husbands' names is really creepy, and I'd never want a woman who I married to take mine. But that's because it's redolent of husbands treating wives as property, whereas your reason seems to be because you want your husband to have to suffer awkwardness like you. You seem willing to give up your specific name, and happy to give strangers the impression that you took your husband's name (which is how it would appear if you chose a third name).
In other words: there are excellent reasons for a woman to keep her name, but you do not seem to have these excellent reasons: your reason seems a bit petty. In all honesty, then, maybe that is the bit you should let go of, and take his name.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:29 AM on August 14, 2007
sorry, didn't read the rest but here's how my spouse and I solved this.
My name is John Smith
Hers is Jane Doe
I remained John Smith
She became Jane Doe Smith with 'Doe Smith' as her last names.
The kids are Smith but have 'Doe' as their last middle name
So they are Jack James Doe Smith and Fred Barney Doe Smith
This way you don't get the infinite hyphenation problem and everyone basically shares the same last name
The mailbox has
DOE
SMITH
on it.
posted by unSane at 10:40 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
My name is John Smith
Hers is Jane Doe
I remained John Smith
She became Jane Doe Smith with 'Doe Smith' as her last names.
The kids are Smith but have 'Doe' as their last middle name
So they are Jack James Doe Smith and Fred Barney Doe Smith
This way you don't get the infinite hyphenation problem and everyone basically shares the same last name
The mailbox has
DOE
SMITH
on it.
posted by unSane at 10:40 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm honestly surprised that so many people are urging her to change her name. She doesn't want to and it obviously means a great deal to her not to do it. I don't think its our job to change her mind.
I hated my father and for years, looked forward to marriage as a reason to get rid of his name, but when it actually came to the point of marriage and having the option to do so, I couldn't bear it. For a lot of people, your name has weight and resonance. Even if you don't love it, it's a symbol of your past and the person you've come to be. And heck, as my dear boy said, "I fell in love with Mostly Martha and I want to be with Mostly Martha, just as she is, for the rest of my life."
I think it's super that he's willing to change his name with you, and if you're comfortable with this comprimise, I'd work toward that. A good portmanteau could solve the problem, as could something from way back in the family tree. Or maybe, is there a book you both love with a character with a great last name you could use? An author or artist?
Regardless, don't feel bad that you made this decision. It's reasonable and appropriate to think that taking your husband's name is a fuddy duddy old tradition you don't want a part of.
posted by mostlymartha at 10:41 AM on August 14, 2007
I hated my father and for years, looked forward to marriage as a reason to get rid of his name, but when it actually came to the point of marriage and having the option to do so, I couldn't bear it. For a lot of people, your name has weight and resonance. Even if you don't love it, it's a symbol of your past and the person you've come to be. And heck, as my dear boy said, "I fell in love with Mostly Martha and I want to be with Mostly Martha, just as she is, for the rest of my life."
I think it's super that he's willing to change his name with you, and if you're comfortable with this comprimise, I'd work toward that. A good portmanteau could solve the problem, as could something from way back in the family tree. Or maybe, is there a book you both love with a character with a great last name you could use? An author or artist?
Regardless, don't feel bad that you made this decision. It's reasonable and appropriate to think that taking your husband's name is a fuddy duddy old tradition you don't want a part of.
posted by mostlymartha at 10:41 AM on August 14, 2007
I'm honestly surprised that so many people are urging her to change her name.
She kinda framed the question that way, asking for people to change her mind rather than support her decision, which is rather skewing the thread.
posted by occhiblu at 10:44 AM on August 14, 2007
She kinda framed the question that way, asking for people to change her mind rather than support her decision, which is rather skewing the thread.
posted by occhiblu at 10:44 AM on August 14, 2007
mostlymartha - read the question again:
What I'm looking for is other options we haven't thought of, reasons why changing my name isn't so bad, other last name schemes we could use, resources on why hyphenation is a decent way to go, etc
posted by horsemuth at 10:50 AM on August 14, 2007
What I'm looking for is other options we haven't thought of, reasons why changing my name isn't so bad, other last name schemes we could use, resources on why hyphenation is a decent way to go, etc
posted by horsemuth at 10:50 AM on August 14, 2007
Could he change his last name to one that means the same thing as yours, but would be more suitable for a person of his race?
Of course, depending on your name and his race, this may not be possible. But if, say, you're a Herrera and he became a Smith or a Kovacs or a Haddad, would that be "the same" enough for him?
For that matter, if you're a Herrera and you both became Haddads, would that be enough connection to Grandpa Herrera for you?
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Of course, depending on your name and his race, this may not be possible. But if, say, you're a Herrera and he became a Smith or a Kovacs or a Haddad, would that be "the same" enough for him?
For that matter, if you're a Herrera and you both became Haddads, would that be enough connection to Grandpa Herrera for you?
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I feel like I have many things to say, but only a few would be helpful:
a. I kept my maiden name as my middle name. As a result, I'm alphabetized according to my (married) last name. If you hyphenate, technically, you'd be alphabetized according to the first part of your hyphenated name, under the Js for Jones-Fleugler, for example.
b. I spent a fair amount of brain power wondering what I should do with my name before I got married, because I am the last person (ever! sob!) to have my family name. Very uncommon, I'm a rare gem ;) I asked an older, long-married friend of mine if she regretted changing her name when she married, and she said "I don't even think about it now." True. Six years in, I spend almost no time thinking about it, because it's just part of who I am. Moral of the story, whether you change your name, your husband changes his, or you both do: "Change seems hard, but you adjust."
c. I think the widowed lawyer quoted above is honestly having the reaction that comes from missing your spouse - if they had had the same last name, she would find another way to describe her sense of loss.
Good luck - I hope this is the biggest hurdle your marriage ever faces :)
posted by deliriouscool at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2007
a. I kept my maiden name as my middle name. As a result, I'm alphabetized according to my (married) last name. If you hyphenate, technically, you'd be alphabetized according to the first part of your hyphenated name, under the Js for Jones-Fleugler, for example.
b. I spent a fair amount of brain power wondering what I should do with my name before I got married, because I am the last person (ever! sob!) to have my family name. Very uncommon, I'm a rare gem ;) I asked an older, long-married friend of mine if she regretted changing her name when she married, and she said "I don't even think about it now." True. Six years in, I spend almost no time thinking about it, because it's just part of who I am. Moral of the story, whether you change your name, your husband changes his, or you both do: "Change seems hard, but you adjust."
c. I think the widowed lawyer quoted above is honestly having the reaction that comes from missing your spouse - if they had had the same last name, she would find another way to describe her sense of loss.
Good luck - I hope this is the biggest hurdle your marriage ever faces :)
posted by deliriouscool at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2007
when mrs. jaydee and i got married, we hyphenated our (both) ethnic last names. your fiance is correct when he notes that computer systems will generally get it wrong. however, unless you like junk mail, spamcalls, and other communications that such systems tend to address, you won't find it a problem. the major databases, including social security, state dmvs, passports and reputable creditors (like credit cards, utilities, mortgage companies, etc.) will almost always get it right, since they have an interest that vests in getting it right.
in short, having a name that computer systems botch is a bonus, and not a minus. i can look at mail before opening it, and tell in a second if its worth my time or not.
oh, and those folks who ask me dopey questions about our family name? well, i don't have to worry about including them in our circle of friends. and for those folks who ask smart questions? why, thank you very much, let me tell you about our wonderful family.
in short, having a family name made up of two hyphenated and clearly ethnic names? think of it as a razor that helps you avoid junk mail and file dopey acquaintances where they belong. it works brilliantly for us.
and we wish you the best as you launch "s.s. wedded bliss."
best,
djjd
posted by deejay jaydee at 11:00 AM on August 14, 2007
in short, having a name that computer systems botch is a bonus, and not a minus. i can look at mail before opening it, and tell in a second if its worth my time or not.
oh, and those folks who ask me dopey questions about our family name? well, i don't have to worry about including them in our circle of friends. and for those folks who ask smart questions? why, thank you very much, let me tell you about our wonderful family.
in short, having a family name made up of two hyphenated and clearly ethnic names? think of it as a razor that helps you avoid junk mail and file dopey acquaintances where they belong. it works brilliantly for us.
and we wish you the best as you launch "s.s. wedded bliss."
best,
djjd
posted by deejay jaydee at 11:00 AM on August 14, 2007
(I pity the poor geneologists of the future.)
I like the Southern tradition of using the "maiden name" as a middle name. Unfortunately I screwed that up for myself when changing my license, but the world did not come to an end.
I do not feel like my "husband's property" because I took his name. I do feel that the fact all of us-including the kids-had THE SAME NAME made life run much smoothly.
I say sit down and pick out a name together. If the usual tradition of wives taking husband's name doesn't appeal, then why put any limitations of tradition on what last name you wind up with? Pick something you both like, and save your arguments for things in life that really matter.
posted by konolia at 11:02 AM on August 14, 2007
I like the Southern tradition of using the "maiden name" as a middle name. Unfortunately I screwed that up for myself when changing my license, but the world did not come to an end.
I do not feel like my "husband's property" because I took his name. I do feel that the fact all of us-including the kids-had THE SAME NAME made life run much smoothly.
I say sit down and pick out a name together. If the usual tradition of wives taking husband's name doesn't appeal, then why put any limitations of tradition on what last name you wind up with? Pick something you both like, and save your arguments for things in life that really matter.
posted by konolia at 11:02 AM on August 14, 2007
Let's not forget the role of intention in this decision-making process. I self-identify as a feminist, and I don't accept the notion that every name-change expectation is rooted in subconscious misogynistic or selfish tendencies.
Try to look at every aspect of your marriage as your opportunity to create and define your family in a deliberate and thoughtful way. The naming of the family is part of that definition. It should be a reflection of your relationship and your own ideal of family.
To share a name or not, to take his or hers or neither -- you can see that families can work in any of these ways. The important thing is that you find the principles you agree on, and make your decision from those points of agreement. You'll both feel good about where you end up, and it won't bother you if/when people give you shit about it because you'll know the reasons behind your choice are things you actually believe in.
Some examples that may or may not resonate:
To inherit a name or names can be symbolic of being an extension of an existing family. To create a new name can be symbolic of a break from the existing family, or it can be symbolic of leading the family in a new direction (some friends of ours chose the last name "Home" because that's what they are to each other and their families). To have different last names can symbolize your individual contributions to the relationship or it can symbolize your inability to agree. There's a big difference there.
Whatever you do, be deliberate about it.
posted by nadise at 11:13 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Try to look at every aspect of your marriage as your opportunity to create and define your family in a deliberate and thoughtful way. The naming of the family is part of that definition. It should be a reflection of your relationship and your own ideal of family.
To share a name or not, to take his or hers or neither -- you can see that families can work in any of these ways. The important thing is that you find the principles you agree on, and make your decision from those points of agreement. You'll both feel good about where you end up, and it won't bother you if/when people give you shit about it because you'll know the reasons behind your choice are things you actually believe in.
Some examples that may or may not resonate:
To inherit a name or names can be symbolic of being an extension of an existing family. To create a new name can be symbolic of a break from the existing family, or it can be symbolic of leading the family in a new direction (some friends of ours chose the last name "Home" because that's what they are to each other and their families). To have different last names can symbolize your individual contributions to the relationship or it can symbolize your inability to agree. There's a big difference there.
Whatever you do, be deliberate about it.
posted by nadise at 11:13 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think that there are a lot of really great for/against comments here. What I would add, from my own experience, is that no matter what choice you make about your names, people will openly criticize that choice. If you take his name you are an anti-feminist subaltern; if you keep your name you are tearing apart the very basis of western civilization; if you both take a new name you are weirdos who are destroying family traditions; if you hyphenate you are creating misery for your children; and on and on and on. Basically, this issue is so loaded that there is no neutral choice, no option that will leave you immune from hostile attention. So make sure that you are making a choice that feels right to you personally at a fundamental level, because it is guaranteed that that choice will not be making other people happy.
I would also add that if you are not only from different cultures, but also travel between those cultures, that you should choose a name or names that scan well in both. If every time you fly overseas to visit your family you have to have an argument with the passport officers about whether you are "really" married, it will get old fast, for example. Names are not just a way to attain and express personal fulfillment; they are also an incredibly important part of how we interact with the world around us, and your choice can make those interactions easier or harder, depending.
posted by Forktine at 11:38 AM on August 14, 2007
I would also add that if you are not only from different cultures, but also travel between those cultures, that you should choose a name or names that scan well in both. If every time you fly overseas to visit your family you have to have an argument with the passport officers about whether you are "really" married, it will get old fast, for example. Names are not just a way to attain and express personal fulfillment; they are also an incredibly important part of how we interact with the world around us, and your choice can make those interactions easier or harder, depending.
posted by Forktine at 11:38 AM on August 14, 2007
Your fiance' seems very willing to change his name for you, but not the reverse. I'm sure he had ties to his family, too. So what is making you so stubborn? I don't think this is a feminist issue for you, honestly. I think it is about the level of commitment.
Consider these points: How traditional is his family? How will his parents feel, for instance, if he chooses to change the name they passed down to him? That is still, today, the more prevalent route for married couples to take. Will his parents be hurt if he changes his name?
You may be thinking, "Well, why would it be different for me?" Well, okay, what about your family? Did your mother take your father's name or not? I'm guessing she probably did. You may think this was because it was the tradition, and you may associate the tradition with a paternalistic society--but your Mom may have felt that it made the two of them into a family, and that the fact your father wanted her to share his parents' name showed his level of commitment to her.
Seen in that light, what's the big deal about changing to his name? If you plan to have children, you can always pass down your grandfather's name to your children as a middle name.
posted by misha at 11:39 AM on August 14, 2007
Consider these points: How traditional is his family? How will his parents feel, for instance, if he chooses to change the name they passed down to him? That is still, today, the more prevalent route for married couples to take. Will his parents be hurt if he changes his name?
You may be thinking, "Well, why would it be different for me?" Well, okay, what about your family? Did your mother take your father's name or not? I'm guessing she probably did. You may think this was because it was the tradition, and you may associate the tradition with a paternalistic society--but your Mom may have felt that it made the two of them into a family, and that the fact your father wanted her to share his parents' name showed his level of commitment to her.
Seen in that light, what's the big deal about changing to his name? If you plan to have children, you can always pass down your grandfather's name to your children as a middle name.
posted by misha at 11:39 AM on August 14, 2007
Our next door neighbors are a lesbian couple who married in a ceremony that was not legally recognized. One changed her name to adopt the other's last name. They shared the need to establish a common identity, even more so than what your boyfriend feels. I think it's understandable, for any couple.
About his taking your name, and you being of different races: You didn't provide details, but in my mind I'm picturing a 6-foot 4-inch African-American male wondering what would happen if he changed his name to Kurosawa or Ng. That's an extreme example, but I can see the thing about the name "not being believable" as an issue.
Asking for reasons why changing my name isn't so bad :
You have an opportunity now to jointly create a new identity, together. That's a wonderful thing, since you can define who you are going into the future. It's a rite of passage for one of the most significant changes of life, and -- unlike in older more sexist times -- both you and he can do this. I'd try think of it as a gift and a challenge, and not a loss.
(and on preview, what nadise said)
posted by Robert Angelo at 11:43 AM on August 14, 2007
About his taking your name, and you being of different races: You didn't provide details, but in my mind I'm picturing a 6-foot 4-inch African-American male wondering what would happen if he changed his name to Kurosawa or Ng. That's an extreme example, but I can see the thing about the name "not being believable" as an issue.
Asking for reasons why changing my name isn't so bad :
You have an opportunity now to jointly create a new identity, together. That's a wonderful thing, since you can define who you are going into the future. It's a rite of passage for one of the most significant changes of life, and -- unlike in older more sexist times -- both you and he can do this. I'd try think of it as a gift and a challenge, and not a loss.
(and on preview, what nadise said)
posted by Robert Angelo at 11:43 AM on August 14, 2007
If you don't take your husband's name, there is a good number of very intelligent, articulate, and influential people in this world who will assume that you are self-centered, arrogant, crazy, generally a pain in the ass, that you overthink things, or some combination of those things. You may not care about that, but it's true.
Wow, where I live, most educated women and women who work as professionals keep their names and so do many other women. The above comments completely surprise me. I can only think of a handful of women I know who've changed their names, at least in the under 45 set. In fact, in Canada, women generally don't do legal name changes -- if they use their husband's name, it's an assumed name, though generally accepted as a legal name. And in Quebec, it's illegal for a woman to adopt her husband's name.
If you look around the world, women do not always take their husband's names. Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, China, Korea, Taiwan, Phillippines, sometimes in Japan. In France, Quebec and Louisiana, the default is for the woman's pre-marriage surname to always be her legal name.
Since I live in a region of North America with a high Asian and French influence, perhaps that's why most of the women I know kept their names.
posted by acoutu at 11:43 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Wow, where I live, most educated women and women who work as professionals keep their names and so do many other women. The above comments completely surprise me. I can only think of a handful of women I know who've changed their names, at least in the under 45 set. In fact, in Canada, women generally don't do legal name changes -- if they use their husband's name, it's an assumed name, though generally accepted as a legal name. And in Quebec, it's illegal for a woman to adopt her husband's name.
If you look around the world, women do not always take their husband's names. Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, China, Korea, Taiwan, Phillippines, sometimes in Japan. In France, Quebec and Louisiana, the default is for the woman's pre-marriage surname to always be her legal name.
Since I live in a region of North America with a high Asian and French influence, perhaps that's why most of the women I know kept their names.
posted by acoutu at 11:43 AM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I knew of a couple who were in a similar bind. They both changed their last names to Makepeace. (We were in New England, so it wasn't so odd.)
Alternately, you could take each other's last names as middle names.
That's exactly what Mr. Corpse in the Library and I did.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:46 AM on August 14, 2007
Alternately, you could take each other's last names as middle names.
That's exactly what Mr. Corpse in the Library and I did.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:46 AM on August 14, 2007
You may be thinking, "Well, why would it be different for me?" Well, okay, what about your family? Did your mother take your father's name or not? I'm guessing she probably did. You may think this was because it was the tradition, and you may associate the tradition with a paternalistic society--but your Mom may have felt that it made the two of them into a family, and that the fact your father wanted her to share his parents' name showed his level of commitment to her.
She says in her question that her mom kept her name.
posted by desuetude at 12:02 PM on August 14, 2007
She says in her question that her mom kept her name.
posted by desuetude at 12:02 PM on August 14, 2007
People who judge a woman negatively based on her taking her husband's name are petty, shallow, and unreasonable.
As are people who think that you're not truly married unless you have the same last name. Or that women who want to keep their name are being uppity rebels just for the hell of it.
posted by jrossi4r at 12:15 PM on August 14, 2007
As are people who think that you're not truly married unless you have the same last name. Or that women who want to keep their name are being uppity rebels just for the hell of it.
posted by jrossi4r at 12:15 PM on August 14, 2007
I suggest that you should both change your last names to Lastname.
Or, adopt the Latin American/Spanish system, where nobody changes their names, yet the machoness remains untarnished.
posted by emd3737 at 12:21 PM on August 14, 2007
Or, adopt the Latin American/Spanish system, where nobody changes their names, yet the machoness remains untarnished.
posted by emd3737 at 12:21 PM on August 14, 2007
Here's what we did: My wife had some education and work history and worried about losing it (or at least she was worried that people used as references, etc., would not be familiar with the new name).
So, my name remained unchanged (examples only; not our real names): Mortimer Xerxes Doohickie. Her name switched from Penelope Candace Wintergreen to Penelope Wintergreen Doohickie. That way, her name would still be familiar to references and the like, and we shared a last name (mine).
As far as the male dominated thing goes, I see it this way: In our culture, it is clear that people are man and wife when they share the same last name (usually the groom's). Sure, there are exceptions, but they are not the norm. But to fit into society without being the exception to the rule, we just followed the convention. It may not be a "fair" convention in that it arbitrarily favors one gender's family name at the expense of the other gender's, but it's the way it is (just like the fact that all people in a given country drive on the same side of the road). Following the rule doesn't necessarily mean you buy into everything that implies; it just means you're following convention. Period.
I do know a couple, incidentally, that kept their original last names- he kept his and she kept hers and no one changed their name. They had two sons. One has his last name, the other has her last name. Kind of confusing when you first get to know them.
posted by Doohickie at 12:54 PM on August 14, 2007
So, my name remained unchanged (examples only; not our real names): Mortimer Xerxes Doohickie. Her name switched from Penelope Candace Wintergreen to Penelope Wintergreen Doohickie. That way, her name would still be familiar to references and the like, and we shared a last name (mine).
As far as the male dominated thing goes, I see it this way: In our culture, it is clear that people are man and wife when they share the same last name (usually the groom's). Sure, there are exceptions, but they are not the norm. But to fit into society without being the exception to the rule, we just followed the convention. It may not be a "fair" convention in that it arbitrarily favors one gender's family name at the expense of the other gender's, but it's the way it is (just like the fact that all people in a given country drive on the same side of the road). Following the rule doesn't necessarily mean you buy into everything that implies; it just means you're following convention. Period.
I do know a couple, incidentally, that kept their original last names- he kept his and she kept hers and no one changed their name. They had two sons. One has his last name, the other has her last name. Kind of confusing when you first get to know them.
posted by Doohickie at 12:54 PM on August 14, 2007
Speaking as the boyfriend in question, I'd like to thank everyone for a variety of insightful comments and suggestions both ways. I would however, like to clarify that my viewpoints on being "truly married" extend to noone else other than my own marriage - I couldn't care less about how other people choose to decide how they best express their love for each other.
But I do believe I am entitled to my own romantic notions about what I believe would be a happy marriage for me and my future wife. And as I do not judge others one how they feel their choice of names express their love for one another, I would ask that my preferences, and my girlfriend's, not be judged. You may think it's silly that I don't feel loved enough to marry my girlfriend if she doesn't change her name. I admit I feel a little silly too. But I would not call any other couple "petty, shallow or unreasonable" or believe that their marriage is "diminished" in any way for keeping separate names - including her parents.
I do think that defaulting to the male surname is misogynistic and antiquated - so much so that I'd be willing to take "Einstein," "Pittsburgh," or "Glokenspiel" (actual floated suggestions). It pisses me off that if I took her name I'd be forever targeted by my coworkers and perceived as vulnerable and cowardly, impeding my considerable career ambitions (let's just say I don't look Irish). But I also cannot imagine feeling whole with my partner for the rest of my life without sharing the most basic of identifiers. I see this act as a covenant of love and would appreciate if commenters would respect that as perhaps a far stronger statement against misogyny.
posted by tedit at 1:02 PM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
But I do believe I am entitled to my own romantic notions about what I believe would be a happy marriage for me and my future wife. And as I do not judge others one how they feel their choice of names express their love for one another, I would ask that my preferences, and my girlfriend's, not be judged. You may think it's silly that I don't feel loved enough to marry my girlfriend if she doesn't change her name. I admit I feel a little silly too. But I would not call any other couple "petty, shallow or unreasonable" or believe that their marriage is "diminished" in any way for keeping separate names - including her parents.
I do think that defaulting to the male surname is misogynistic and antiquated - so much so that I'd be willing to take "Einstein," "Pittsburgh," or "Glokenspiel" (actual floated suggestions). It pisses me off that if I took her name I'd be forever targeted by my coworkers and perceived as vulnerable and cowardly, impeding my considerable career ambitions (let's just say I don't look Irish). But I also cannot imagine feeling whole with my partner for the rest of my life without sharing the most basic of identifiers. I see this act as a covenant of love and would appreciate if commenters would respect that as perhaps a far stronger statement against misogyny.
posted by tedit at 1:02 PM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
My boyfriend's parents kept their respective last names, and both their children (my boy and his brother) have two last names. So Mum C, Dad F, Boyfriend C-F. It's never caused him any major problems - sometimes it just becomes Boyfriend C because of length, but for the important things his full name shows up.
I'm from a culture where no one changes their last name on marriage. Your last name (if you even HAVE one) is your father's first name, or a variation (like mine). The concept of you not being "truly married" unless you take in your spouse's last name, or of missing the link between you and your child just because you don't share a last name, is non-existent and honestly ridiculous. (To the person who said that they regret not taking on their spouse's last name because she doesn't share one with her daughter - what would you do if she married and changed her name?)
Also, consider that some people go by middle names. Tiara is my middle name but it's the name I go by and the one I'm most familiar with.
posted by divabat at 1:28 PM on August 14, 2007
I'm from a culture where no one changes their last name on marriage. Your last name (if you even HAVE one) is your father's first name, or a variation (like mine). The concept of you not being "truly married" unless you take in your spouse's last name, or of missing the link between you and your child just because you don't share a last name, is non-existent and honestly ridiculous. (To the person who said that they regret not taking on their spouse's last name because she doesn't share one with her daughter - what would you do if she married and changed her name?)
Also, consider that some people go by middle names. Tiara is my middle name but it's the name I go by and the one I'm most familiar with.
posted by divabat at 1:28 PM on August 14, 2007
Maybe you could both take the other's last name as an extra middle name?
So, if you're Betty Jane Smith and he's Ted Alvin Jones, you'd be Betty Jane Jones Smith and he'd be Ted Alvin Smith Jones.
Neither of you has to answer to a new name but you're still sharing names.
posted by Many bubbles at 1:30 PM on August 14, 2007
So, if you're Betty Jane Smith and he's Ted Alvin Jones, you'd be Betty Jane Jones Smith and he'd be Ted Alvin Smith Jones.
Neither of you has to answer to a new name but you're still sharing names.
posted by Many bubbles at 1:30 PM on August 14, 2007
tedit - you are absolutely entitled to your romantic notions. I always thought I would never change my name when I got married ... until I found out that my now husband had the exact same notions as you do. Since his feelings were stronger than my resistance, I changed my name.
I drove a hard bargain though - I have naming rights on the kids. My daughter has my grandmother's name.
My only concern for you guys is that you are now having an internet argument about a deeply personal issue. It's time for premarital counseling - this isn't the time or place to hash it out.
posted by crazycanuck at 1:32 PM on August 14, 2007
I drove a hard bargain though - I have naming rights on the kids. My daughter has my grandmother's name.
My only concern for you guys is that you are now having an internet argument about a deeply personal issue. It's time for premarital counseling - this isn't the time or place to hash it out.
posted by crazycanuck at 1:32 PM on August 14, 2007
This will cause you untold trouble over the years when people assume that your social name is your legal name.
Banks, at least, will let you have alternate names that you can still cash checks and such with.
posted by Many bubbles at 1:37 PM on August 14, 2007
Banks, at least, will let you have alternate names that you can still cash checks and such with.
posted by Many bubbles at 1:37 PM on August 14, 2007
I was not going to take his name; wasn't even on the table. He agreed, no issue there. We thought about picking out a new name together - the whole "sharing a name creates our family identity" thing felt nice. We had already gone through last name changes - both of us were adopted at a young age by our respective stepfathers. It really seemed like changing our names again for marrying each other would be no big deal. But I realized after tossing the idea around for a couple years (up to and after we were married) that I'm used to my name, I like it, and I didn't want to change it. (Oh, and frankly, we're lazy, heh.)
Having different names is no big deal either in the world or at home, I found. It's just not so much the norm anymore that everyone has the same last name, because people divorce, have kids before they get married, have kids with different people, don't get married at all, some women keep their names now, other cultures don't follow the naming conventions that North America was used to - and the public structure (gov't, schools) is very used to handling it.
When we had kids, they got my last name. So now he's the odd name out. He's thought about changing his name to ours, but it comes back to - he's used to his name, too, and changing his name at work would be strange, he says; this is the name he's established under. He's thought about going "aka" like women do - maiden name at work, married name at home. He may do that at some point - he thinks it's a funny idea to take on my (ethnic and not at all *his* ethnicity) name.
But whether he ever does or doesn't (I don't think he will; see "lazy" above), it honestly just does not matter very much. I have not had anyone question whether we're married or if our kids are his kids, ever, at all. No one seems confused by our names. No one questioned it at the boys' preschool; no one questioned it during the immigration process. I think people have been clinging to this outdated, and yes, patriarchal notion, because it's how the world was, and it seems easier to go with the flow... but it's an idealization of how marriage was. Certainly it's not what marriage is, or is defined by, anymore, I think.
posted by Melinika at 1:54 PM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Having different names is no big deal either in the world or at home, I found. It's just not so much the norm anymore that everyone has the same last name, because people divorce, have kids before they get married, have kids with different people, don't get married at all, some women keep their names now, other cultures don't follow the naming conventions that North America was used to - and the public structure (gov't, schools) is very used to handling it.
When we had kids, they got my last name. So now he's the odd name out. He's thought about changing his name to ours, but it comes back to - he's used to his name, too, and changing his name at work would be strange, he says; this is the name he's established under. He's thought about going "aka" like women do - maiden name at work, married name at home. He may do that at some point - he thinks it's a funny idea to take on my (ethnic and not at all *his* ethnicity) name.
But whether he ever does or doesn't (I don't think he will; see "lazy" above), it honestly just does not matter very much. I have not had anyone question whether we're married or if our kids are his kids, ever, at all. No one seems confused by our names. No one questioned it at the boys' preschool; no one questioned it during the immigration process. I think people have been clinging to this outdated, and yes, patriarchal notion, because it's how the world was, and it seems easier to go with the flow... but it's an idealization of how marriage was. Certainly it's not what marriage is, or is defined by, anymore, I think.
posted by Melinika at 1:54 PM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
My only concern for you guys is that you are now having an internet argument about a deeply personal issue. It's time for premarital counseling - this isn't the time or place to hash it out.
Well, they're not arguing with each other. They're having a discussion and seeking alternate points of view. We're arguing with them.
Tedit, I think it's awesome that you outed yourself (and didn't get too offended by how quickly we all personalize this stuff.)
posted by desuetude at 2:09 PM on August 14, 2007
Well, they're not arguing with each other. They're having a discussion and seeking alternate points of view. We're arguing with them.
Tedit, I think it's awesome that you outed yourself (and didn't get too offended by how quickly we all personalize this stuff.)
posted by desuetude at 2:09 PM on August 14, 2007
But that's because it's redolent of husbands treating wives as property, whereas your reason seems to be because you want your husband to have to suffer awkwardness like you
It's more than just "awkwardness" to adjust to a new name if you're quite happy with the one you have, and especially if you do not feel like the change is one that was properly even-handed or fair in the way it was laid out. If the husband expects you to take his name and does not appreciate the sense of loss of identity that you might feel, however momentarily, at being rebranded at this stage, I can certainly see it causing discomfort. If you both change names, then there is no sense that one of you is being subsumed in the other, but rather that the two of you are together jumping forward and starting anew. That is different, just as it would be different, and I imagine most men would claim "emasculating", if the man took the woman's name.
(I pity the poor geneologists of the future.)
as was made clear by a post in the previous thread linked already, the woman taking the man's name is actually quite a recent phenomenon. The woman being referred to by the title "Mrs HisFirstName HisLastName" was common, but her actual name would remain the same - it was just a way to say that she was the "Mrs" of that man. If that is all she did, then that would be the manner she would be referred to most often, but not her first name, his last name. So Anne Hathaway was Mrs William Shakespeare, but never Mrs Anne Shakespeare.
posted by mdn at 2:20 PM on August 14, 2007
It's more than just "awkwardness" to adjust to a new name if you're quite happy with the one you have, and especially if you do not feel like the change is one that was properly even-handed or fair in the way it was laid out. If the husband expects you to take his name and does not appreciate the sense of loss of identity that you might feel, however momentarily, at being rebranded at this stage, I can certainly see it causing discomfort. If you both change names, then there is no sense that one of you is being subsumed in the other, but rather that the two of you are together jumping forward and starting anew. That is different, just as it would be different, and I imagine most men would claim "emasculating", if the man took the woman's name.
(I pity the poor geneologists of the future.)
as was made clear by a post in the previous thread linked already, the woman taking the man's name is actually quite a recent phenomenon. The woman being referred to by the title "Mrs HisFirstName HisLastName" was common, but her actual name would remain the same - it was just a way to say that she was the "Mrs" of that man. If that is all she did, then that would be the manner she would be referred to most often, but not her first name, his last name. So Anne Hathaway was Mrs William Shakespeare, but never Mrs Anne Shakespeare.
posted by mdn at 2:20 PM on August 14, 2007
tedit said: It pisses me off that if I took her name I'd be forever targeted by my coworkers and perceived as vulnerable and cowardly, impeding my considerable career ambitions (let's just say I don't look Irish).
So, basically, the ONLY reasons you are not cool with changing your name to hers specifically are that (a) it makes you look less macho at work, and (b) the Irish thing.
Well, I don't know about the latter one (though the people I know with racially-non-matching names seem to do all right), but as other people above me have pointed out, your changing your name At All, to anything that's her name or not, will make your coworkers think you're vulnerable and cowardly. If you're willing to change it to anything but her given name, how is that going to make you come off as "less pussy-whipped" (if you will)? I don't get it.
If it's that important to you, I would just say to change your name, since it sounds like you're going to come off badly to your coworkers if anything other than her taking your name occurs anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:41 PM on August 14, 2007
So, basically, the ONLY reasons you are not cool with changing your name to hers specifically are that (a) it makes you look less macho at work, and (b) the Irish thing.
Well, I don't know about the latter one (though the people I know with racially-non-matching names seem to do all right), but as other people above me have pointed out, your changing your name At All, to anything that's her name or not, will make your coworkers think you're vulnerable and cowardly. If you're willing to change it to anything but her given name, how is that going to make you come off as "less pussy-whipped" (if you will)? I don't get it.
If it's that important to you, I would just say to change your name, since it sounds like you're going to come off badly to your coworkers if anything other than her taking your name occurs anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:41 PM on August 14, 2007
It pisses me off that if I took her name I'd be forever targeted
Well, no, not forever, just by some of the people who knew you when the change was made. Anyone who meets you Mr. Smith (new married name) and Mrs. Smith (old name) in the future would assume she took your name.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:46 PM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Well, no, not forever, just by some of the people who knew you when the change was made. Anyone who meets you Mr. Smith (new married name) and Mrs. Smith (old name) in the future would assume she took your name.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:46 PM on August 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
sorry, desuetude is absolutely right, don't know how I missed that in reading the question.
posted by misha at 2:49 PM on August 14, 2007
posted by misha at 2:49 PM on August 14, 2007
A few people in this thread have referenced women that changed their name legally but continued to use their former name professionally. So the poster's husband (-to-be) could do that, if a single family name is desired but the professional consequences of a name change wouldn't be.
posted by xo at 4:26 PM on August 14, 2007
posted by xo at 4:26 PM on August 14, 2007
... let's just say I don't look Irish.
tedit: so I'm guessing crinklebat is of Irish extraction. Would you both consider adopting something of Gaelic origin, such as the word Taoisigh?
Here are the advantages:
- unless others read/speak Gaelic, they'd never guess its origin (or that it's at odds with your own background);
- it looks non-European, which may be appropriate given your heritage;
- it's the plural of the word meaning "head of state," suggesting that you both share the decision-making in your new household;
- it usually pronounced "tee-shee" — making it sound somewhat gender-neutral;
- you'll never lack for a party chat topic; and
- with "Taoisigh" as a surname, you can name your kids anything.
posted by rob511 at 4:52 PM on August 14, 2007
tedit: so I'm guessing crinklebat is of Irish extraction. Would you both consider adopting something of Gaelic origin, such as the word Taoisigh?
Here are the advantages:
- unless others read/speak Gaelic, they'd never guess its origin (or that it's at odds with your own background);
- it looks non-European, which may be appropriate given your heritage;
- it's the plural of the word meaning "head of state," suggesting that you both share the decision-making in your new household;
- it usually pronounced "tee-shee" — making it sound somewhat gender-neutral;
- you'll never lack for a party chat topic; and
- with "Taoisigh" as a surname, you can name your kids anything.
posted by rob511 at 4:52 PM on August 14, 2007
Word of warning: do not attempt to give your children hyphenated or double last names. My parents saddled me with one and I had to get it legally changed to be eligible for college financial aid because of some bizarre bureaucratic snafu that I still don't fully understand.
posted by Electrius at 5:16 PM on August 14, 2007
posted by Electrius at 5:16 PM on August 14, 2007
Yeah, except anything real Irish causes such pronunciation nightmares people change their names from it. Ask my sister Aoife, my cousin Eoghan or my friend Tadhg. And taoiseach means Bertie Ahern to a lot of people, not sure why you'd want to go there.
posted by jamesonandwater at 5:23 PM on August 14, 2007
posted by jamesonandwater at 5:23 PM on August 14, 2007
I kept my last name. We now have two kids: our daughter has my last name, our son has his last name. (If I'd known we'd have two kids, and that we'd have a son and a daughter, I would have given the son my name and the daughter his, just to mix things up.) No one (aside from my in-laws) is confused by this and the kids think it's very cool.
posted by mothershock at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by mothershock at 5:25 PM on August 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I know it's just an anecdote, but I've always a hyphenated name and I've never had any real logistical problems with it. Yes, occasionally you have to take an extra 20 seconds to say, "Doe-Smith, it's hyphenated, can you check under both D and S?" but it's really not that big a deal. Nor have any of the other people I know with hyphenated names had any serious problems.
I totally don't get why people are saying crinklebat's being more stubborn/less compromising/less committed than her boyfriend. Sounds like they both have some strong preferences, and some things they're are willing to compromise on:
She
- does not want to be the only one changing her name
- wants to keep her name or some variant of it
- flexible on everything else
He
- wants both of them to have the same name
- does not want to take her name
- flexible on everything else
Honestly, if it's not misogyny/traditionalism/whatever, why is she the "unreasonable" one who should give in?
Anyway, crinklebat and tedit, it looks to me like, even if it's not your top preference, the best way to respect and honor both of your desires would be to either a) hyphenate or b) create some mishmash of the names-- I know you've thought of those things and don't feel they're ideal, but you just have to decide, would you rather have something that fits both of your desires/conditions but sounds somewhat awkward, or something that sounds nicer but causes one of you to compromise strongly felt principles? Somewhat awkward names aren't the end of the world, I promise!
posted by EmilyClimbs at 5:28 PM on August 14, 2007
I totally don't get why people are saying crinklebat's being more stubborn/less compromising/less committed than her boyfriend. Sounds like they both have some strong preferences, and some things they're are willing to compromise on:
She
- does not want to be the only one changing her name
- wants to keep her name or some variant of it
- flexible on everything else
He
- wants both of them to have the same name
- does not want to take her name
- flexible on everything else
Honestly, if it's not misogyny/traditionalism/whatever, why is she the "unreasonable" one who should give in?
Anyway, crinklebat and tedit, it looks to me like, even if it's not your top preference, the best way to respect and honor both of your desires would be to either a) hyphenate or b) create some mishmash of the names-- I know you've thought of those things and don't feel they're ideal, but you just have to decide, would you rather have something that fits both of your desires/conditions but sounds somewhat awkward, or something that sounds nicer but causes one of you to compromise strongly felt principles? Somewhat awkward names aren't the end of the world, I promise!
posted by EmilyClimbs at 5:28 PM on August 14, 2007
I Am Not Married, but (like others above) I Have a Hyphenated Last Name... and I'm really glad I do. Luckily, my parents' respective surnames went very well together, and the result is that I have a name that's rather difficult to forget, and rather easy to Google (which will be awesome for when I'm famous and stuff). Sure, I'd probably have been irked if the combination were as awkward as some I've seen, but the principle behind the gesture is pretty- no, let's make that very- important to me. Could it have been easy in the early seventies for my dad, last (at the moment) in a long line of fairly conservative ministers and educators, to make a statement that in all likelihood caused his stodgier colleagues and congregants to consider him questionably hippylike? I doubt it. Has it held him back in a field where many believe that the man is divinely ordained as head of the household in every way? If it did, we definitely can't tell.
Is it difficult to be hyphenated? No, not particularly. Frankly, computer systems and their error-prone users hate all names, not just mine. I don't have problems with misspellings, and the whole extra 15 seconds I have to spend very rarely making sure people don't have me listed under the second half as opposed to the first half is really a non-issue to me. It doesn't sound like either of you are really enthralled with the idea of hyphenating, but I'd encourage you not to dismiss it totally.
I feel for you both. Poor tedit, I'd hardly call you petty or shallow. Unreasonable? Perhaps a little, but feelings are unreasonable by default, and therefore I'd be surprised if any argument were able to change your gut reaction to the idea of being Mr. Her_name or of having a different name from hers. I'll drop crinklebat a line to offer my paltry help in finding a new name, in any case.
posted by Gingersnap at 5:40 PM on August 14, 2007
Is it difficult to be hyphenated? No, not particularly. Frankly, computer systems and their error-prone users hate all names, not just mine. I don't have problems with misspellings, and the whole extra 15 seconds I have to spend very rarely making sure people don't have me listed under the second half as opposed to the first half is really a non-issue to me. It doesn't sound like either of you are really enthralled with the idea of hyphenating, but I'd encourage you not to dismiss it totally.
I feel for you both. Poor tedit, I'd hardly call you petty or shallow. Unreasonable? Perhaps a little, but feelings are unreasonable by default, and therefore I'd be surprised if any argument were able to change your gut reaction to the idea of being Mr. Her_name or of having a different name from hers. I'll drop crinklebat a line to offer my paltry help in finding a new name, in any case.
posted by Gingersnap at 5:40 PM on August 14, 2007
#1: consider the possibility that this inability to find a compromise might suggest similar impasses in the future, possibly over more important things. That is, consider it before you get married.
#2: I hated my last name (long, polish and awkward) and my wife had already changed her last name to a neutral one to avoid being typecast as an actress; so when we got married, I took her name, but since it wasn't really hers to start with, it was kind of like us both taking on a brand new name. And neither of us have ever regretted it.
posted by davejay at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2007
#2: I hated my last name (long, polish and awkward) and my wife had already changed her last name to a neutral one to avoid being typecast as an actress; so when we got married, I took her name, but since it wasn't really hers to start with, it was kind of like us both taking on a brand new name. And neither of us have ever regretted it.
posted by davejay at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2007
Your mother didn't change her name when she married, yet (presumably) you took your father's last name rather than hers. You and your fiance could both take your mother's name.
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:10 PM on August 14, 2007
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:10 PM on August 14, 2007
My wife wouldn't take my last name....and now I'm a single-dad who pees sitting down!
Just kidding. I offered flexibility trying to pass as a sort of modern guy and she just laughed. She said she'd be proud to have my name and that it meant more to her as she actually chose it. She's university-educated writer, to boot.
posted by codswallop at 7:32 PM on August 14, 2007
Just kidding. I offered flexibility trying to pass as a sort of modern guy and she just laughed. She said she'd be proud to have my name and that it meant more to her as she actually chose it. She's university-educated writer, to boot.
posted by codswallop at 7:32 PM on August 14, 2007
My parents are commonlaw, and they actually let me choose between their last names. The arguments mighta screwed me up a bit, though.
posted by tehloki at 7:36 PM on August 14, 2007
posted by tehloki at 7:36 PM on August 14, 2007
If you have the same last name, no matter what it is, people will tend to assume that it started out as his, and you took it.
Each of you taking the other's last name as a middle name makes sense to me. Or taking some other name as a common middle name. Then you share a name but keep your own last name.
Another suggestion - wait it out. Depending where you live, changing your name can be easy, cheap, and fast. Get married, keep your own names for now, and take time to feel how it feels and think things through, keeping open the possibility of changing naming configurations later. That way there could be a lot less pressure because you're already married and committed.
posted by Salamandrous at 8:02 AM on August 15, 2007
Each of you taking the other's last name as a middle name makes sense to me. Or taking some other name as a common middle name. Then you share a name but keep your own last name.
Another suggestion - wait it out. Depending where you live, changing your name can be easy, cheap, and fast. Get married, keep your own names for now, and take time to feel how it feels and think things through, keeping open the possibility of changing naming configurations later. That way there could be a lot less pressure because you're already married and committed.
posted by Salamandrous at 8:02 AM on August 15, 2007
Does your name have a meaning or history? Could you take that meaning, and translate it into another language -- perhaps the language that is culturally appropriate for him?
posted by croutonsupafreak at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2007
posted by croutonsupafreak at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2007
It pisses me off that if I took her name I'd be forever targeted by my coworkers and perceived as vulnerable and cowardly, impeding my considerable career ambitions (let's just say I don't look Irish).
Neither does Mr. O'Neal. Seriously, though, I can appreciate the fear that taking your wife's name would be questioned and looked down upon by many, but don't you think that changing your name at all would get exactly the same reaction?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:50 PM on August 15, 2007
Neither does Mr. O'Neal. Seriously, though, I can appreciate the fear that taking your wife's name would be questioned and looked down upon by many, but don't you think that changing your name at all would get exactly the same reaction?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:50 PM on August 15, 2007
Hmmm. Interesting conundrum.
Tedit, what if you changed your last name to crinklebat's last name, and told your macho colleagues a white lie: Something like, "well, there's legacy property in Ireland that we may inherit some day - but only if our last name is Irishlastname."?
posted by taz at 3:57 AM on August 20, 2007
Tedit, what if you changed your last name to crinklebat's last name, and told your macho colleagues a white lie: Something like, "well, there's legacy property in Ireland that we may inherit some day - but only if our last name is Irishlastname."?
posted by taz at 3:57 AM on August 20, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
"Well, since you feel so strongly about it and I don't, why don't you change your last name to mine?"
"... but I don't wanna change my name..."
"Then now you understand how I feel."
So although he didn't like that I kept my maiden name, he understood the inherent unfairness in making women change their names instead of men.
That said...
I knew a family who for personal reasons gave up their last name entirely. Husband and wife dug back through the maiden names and other last names on their family trees until they found one that they both liked -- his grandmother's maiden name. I think choosing a family name that you both like is probably better than creating a weird mishmash. What about your paternal grandfather's first or middle name instead?
posted by junkbox at 8:37 AM on August 14, 2007