What is this flag?

August 4, 2007 5:08 PM

Can anyone identify this flag, and maybe who would be using it now?

My town recently was the host to an anti-immigration rally. Some of the people at the rally had this flag. It seems similar to a US Cavalry Guidon flag. I found a similar flag here (ignore the banner about deportations, in the previous pic in that stream, they talk about how they stole that banner from the leftists). The group who had it in the first picture is likely from Pennsylvania or New Jersey, but I'm not sure. I am very curious about what group, if any, is using this flag and what it means.

posted by katinka-katinka to society & culture (11 comments total)

Flag of Stanhope Watte is what immediately comes to mind: I cannot for the life of me find an image. but here is the description from Flags of the World:

One of my favorite flags was that used by the last confederate General to surrender, Stanhope Watte. It was based on the Stars and Bars, which was in turn based on the austrian flag of red, white, red horizontal stripes. The blue canton contained 11 white stars in a circle representing the 11 white governments that had left the union and five red stars representing the five indian nations that joined the confederacy. Across the central bar was inscribed "CHEROKEE BRAVES".
William M. Grimes-Wyatt, 22 May 1996

The five red stars on the 1st Cherokee Regiment flag were for the nations of the Seminoles, Choctaws, Chickasaws, Cherokees and Creek indians - who - all being given the shaft at some point or another by the U.S. government - chose to ally themselves with the Confederacy, who pledged them a "we'll leave you alone" plan for their help in the Civil War. I am going to try to draw it.
posted by parmanparman at 5:27 PM on August 4, 2007

As far as I can dig up, it seems like that they had to have based it off the cavalary guidon. (Guidon just means swallowtailed regimental-level flag, apparently.) The gold stars were used for units in battle.

The flag's got 35 stars on it, which is the size of the Union side of the civil war. So, best guess is it's meant to represent the Union, and it was ginned up based on the things you've found.

I can't figure out why the hell they would be using it, though. It makes even less sense than flying Confederate flags.
posted by blacklite at 5:31 PM on August 4, 2007

It might be that it was most popularly carried by General Custer, when he was busy killing non-white people...
posted by blacklite at 5:36 PM on August 4, 2007

Before (if I remember correctly) 1912 there was no official arrangement of stars, and every flag-maker was free to design his own; the double-circle was popular for some time around the Civil War, and the gold stars were common on regimental flags. I don't think it has any special significance except to express the nostalgic conservative belief that the Civil War marked the end of the halcyon days when "real" Americans got the respect they are due; the people holding it are probably just Civil War reënactors or their wives.
posted by nicwolff at 6:00 PM on August 4, 2007

Oh! Yeah. I notice in the background of picture one that they're trying to frame the existence of immigrant workers as an "invasion". That makes the Custer's Last Stand reference make a bit more sense, sort of.

[griping deleted since this is Ask Metafilter and it doesn't answer the question, but damn]
posted by blacklite at 6:04 PM on August 4, 2007

Not sure how reliable this source is, but they say that the rectangular flag is called a Union 35 Star .
posted by iconomy at 6:34 PM on August 4, 2007

I haven't seen that flag before. But, yes, it looks like it's being used to protest illegal (or all?) immigration. I think the banner in picture 2 ("Immigration Yes, Reconquista no") indicates that they give at least some lip service to supporting legal immigration. "Reconquista no" appears to refer to the idea that ...

Some Mexicans and Mexican-Americans want to see California, New Mexico and other parts of the United States given to Mexico. They call it the “reconquista,” Spanish for “reconquest,” and they view the millions of Mexican illegal aliens entering this country as their army of invaders to achieve that takeover.

The above quote is from The Barnes Review, which Wikipedia describes as "a magazine founded by Willis Carto, dedicated to historical revisionism such as Holocaust denial." So, that gives an idea of the veracity of claims of Reconquista, a word which I have never heard before.

So, if it is some sort of Cavalry flag, maybe it's meant to symbolize the belief that Mexico and some Mexican-Americans want to retake the Southwest U.S. for Mexico, so a modern day Cavalry is needed to prevent this from happening.
posted by The Deej at 6:42 PM on August 4, 2007

Can't help with the flag, but just wanted to say that I read this not logged in, and the ad at the bottom of the screen was headed "IMMIGRATE TO CANADA".
posted by paduasoy at 1:48 AM on August 5, 2007

So, if it is some sort of Cavalry flag, maybe it's meant to symbolize the belief that Mexico and some Mexican-Americans want to retake the Southwest U.S. for Mexico, so a modern day Cavalry is needed to prevent this from happening.

I can kind of agree with that. The American flag was unique at the time of its creation because it was part of a country that did not have a definite "war" flag. There have been instances where mutineers have made protest by flying a war flag upside down, because its intent was obvious. You could not, for instance, fly the French flag upside down; but with the French Army flag, you could. There have been moments, mainly because of frustration rather than rebellion that Americans have chosen to fly the stars and stripes upside down in protest. The most recent was in Klamath Falls, Oregon in 2001, when drought conditions and an issue with an endangered species of fish prevented irrigation of about 200 square miles of farmland. The farmers flew a protest flag, the stars and bars upside down. They also carried a gigantic steel bucket to city hall, an LOLcat waiting to happen, but that's another story. I can only surmise the people carrying the flag you are posting with are carrying this interesting and ephemeral garrison flag in protest of certain proposed immigration policies. Regardless, the man or woman who decided to fly this particular flag upside down has got to be either a fantastic vexillogist or a total nerd.
posted by parmanparman at 2:16 AM on August 5, 2007

Parmanparman, or they had a historic flag in their closet that they are proud of. A 35 star flag would have been "official" from July 4, 1863–July 3, 1865, although the flag code basically says that you can legitimately fly any historic US flag as long as it is in good condition. The 35 star flag supersedes the 34 star flag with the admission of West Virginia.

Their could be some kind of civil war symbolism, and could also be a reference to secession, both the obvious civil war reference, and from West Virginia seceding from Virginia and petitioning the Union for recognition (please confirm the history before you quote me though).
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:32 AM on August 5, 2007

Their could be some kind of civil war symbolism, and could also be a reference to secession, both the obvious civil war reference, and from West Virginia seceding from Virginia and petitioning the Union for recognition (please confirm the history before you quote me though).

Flags of the World lists this flag as one West Virginia flew when it seceded from Virginia and joined the union. So it would probably be incorrect to call this a flag with a legislative provenance.
posted by parmanparman at 10:37 AM on August 5, 2007