Life in Tokyo
July 30, 2007 1:07 PM Subscribe
What's it like for a 30-something blue-collar type American to live/work in Tokyo?
Expensive compared to what, ikkyu2?
Protocool, have you tried Googling yet? I tried "americans living in japan" (sans quotes) and got a bunch of hits that looked like they'd be pretty useful.
SomethingAwful has a megathread about Japan here (seems to be open to the general public at the present time, albeit with some ads) which might have some useful anecdotes.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 2:47 PM on July 30, 2007
Protocool, have you tried Googling yet? I tried "americans living in japan" (sans quotes) and got a bunch of hits that looked like they'd be pretty useful.
SomethingAwful has a megathread about Japan here (seems to be open to the general public at the present time, albeit with some ads) which might have some useful anecdotes.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 2:47 PM on July 30, 2007
Not to be annoying, but I think we need a little more detail. Are you moving there, or are you accompanying someone moving there, or is this for a novel, or what? What's your Japanese like? How long will you be there?
posted by mdonley at 2:55 PM on July 30, 2007
posted by mdonley at 2:55 PM on July 30, 2007
Depends on your line of work. And depends if you like Japanese food, Japanese culture, or if you have ever lived abroad. In some ways it's like any other really big city; probably a lot safer than big American cities.
Also, I'd agree with expensive. It used to be the most expensive city in the world, but with the weak yen value, it recently dropped down below Moscow, and maybe London. The rest of Japan is pretty affordable though.
Also Japan can be tough if you have no Japanese language ability; but Tokyo is perhaps as English-friendly as it gets in Japan.
posted by p3t3 at 3:55 PM on July 30, 2007
Also, I'd agree with expensive. It used to be the most expensive city in the world, but with the weak yen value, it recently dropped down below Moscow, and maybe London. The rest of Japan is pretty affordable though.
Also Japan can be tough if you have no Japanese language ability; but Tokyo is perhaps as English-friendly as it gets in Japan.
posted by p3t3 at 3:55 PM on July 30, 2007
Agreed that we need more information before anyone can be more specific.
I'll do a little brain dump anyway. I have lived and worked in Tokyo (still do from time to time) but this is mostly my opinion, since I don't have first hand experience trying to do blue-collar work there.
You will not be able to find blue-collar work in Tokyo that will let you live legally in Japan. And unlike the US, there isn't a lot of underground resources for undocumented workers. For example, you won't be able to get an apartment. Even fully documented foreigners have trouble finding people who are willing to rent to them.
If you could find a blue-collar job it would require pretty good spoken Japanese skills. Unlike the white-collar jobs where English is a big part of why you'll get hired, blue-collar workers speak little English and have less patience for trying to speak it. Japanese is not easy to learn. My guestimation is that you would need about three years of dedicated study before you'd not be a complete liability in a blue collar job. There will probably be regular tests and qualifications you need to take, especially if you use any machinery, and probably before you're allowed to be hired for the job. Japanese love stuff like that.
Your time on-the-job would be longer than America. 60 hours plus a week, and some non-optional drinking and debauchery after work. Quality expectations of the work is generally much higher as well. You would have to live at least an hour outside of central Tokyo, probably in Chiba or Saitama because of very low pay and very high rental costs. Even then you'll probably get something along the lines of a small studio apartment. You won't find a Japanese person to be a room mate (they don't do room mates much in Tokyo) and most foreigners are, again, white collar and taken care of by their company, and wouldn't be looking for room mates.
I don't know of any expat communities outside of central Tokyo. They (again) tend to be the most expensive neighborhoods. It can get lonley the first year or so, especially if you don't have an ex-pat community to connect with.
You might be able to get work teaching English somewhere. That kind of life has been covered ad-nausem around the net. They claim you need a 4-year degree to get the work, but in practice it's less rigorous. In short it's the kind of thing that's much more fun for 20 year-olds than 30 year-olds.
Try finding the book "Living Abroad in Japan". Very comprehensive.
posted by Ookseer at 6:20 PM on July 30, 2007
I'll do a little brain dump anyway. I have lived and worked in Tokyo (still do from time to time) but this is mostly my opinion, since I don't have first hand experience trying to do blue-collar work there.
You will not be able to find blue-collar work in Tokyo that will let you live legally in Japan. And unlike the US, there isn't a lot of underground resources for undocumented workers. For example, you won't be able to get an apartment. Even fully documented foreigners have trouble finding people who are willing to rent to them.
If you could find a blue-collar job it would require pretty good spoken Japanese skills. Unlike the white-collar jobs where English is a big part of why you'll get hired, blue-collar workers speak little English and have less patience for trying to speak it. Japanese is not easy to learn. My guestimation is that you would need about three years of dedicated study before you'd not be a complete liability in a blue collar job. There will probably be regular tests and qualifications you need to take, especially if you use any machinery, and probably before you're allowed to be hired for the job. Japanese love stuff like that.
Your time on-the-job would be longer than America. 60 hours plus a week, and some non-optional drinking and debauchery after work. Quality expectations of the work is generally much higher as well. You would have to live at least an hour outside of central Tokyo, probably in Chiba or Saitama because of very low pay and very high rental costs. Even then you'll probably get something along the lines of a small studio apartment. You won't find a Japanese person to be a room mate (they don't do room mates much in Tokyo) and most foreigners are, again, white collar and taken care of by their company, and wouldn't be looking for room mates.
I don't know of any expat communities outside of central Tokyo. They (again) tend to be the most expensive neighborhoods. It can get lonley the first year or so, especially if you don't have an ex-pat community to connect with.
You might be able to get work teaching English somewhere. That kind of life has been covered ad-nausem around the net. They claim you need a 4-year degree to get the work, but in practice it's less rigorous. In short it's the kind of thing that's much more fun for 20 year-olds than 30 year-olds.
Try finding the book "Living Abroad in Japan". Very comprehensive.
posted by Ookseer at 6:20 PM on July 30, 2007
If you aren't sure you want to live here, you'll grow to hate it.
If you are sure you want to live here, you'll grow to love it.
Tokyo isn't so expensive, but sounds that way if you keep translating prices back to dollars. Don't do that.
Otherwise the same as any big city like New York, or London.
posted by lundman at 6:42 PM on July 30, 2007 [1 favorite]
I would say that most likely it is impossible for a "blue-collar" foreigner with no Japanese ability and no understanding of the culture to even get a foot in the door with regards to surviving in Tokyo.
With Japanese ability, it is possible, assuming you are married to a local (and thus have a spouse visa and work permission). It would still be damned expensive to stay in the city proper on such an income though.
posted by nightchrome at 7:20 PM on July 30, 2007
With Japanese ability, it is possible, assuming you are married to a local (and thus have a spouse visa and work permission). It would still be damned expensive to stay in the city proper on such an income though.
posted by nightchrome at 7:20 PM on July 30, 2007
Tokyo is most definitely expensive. The further from Shinjuku you get on the Odakyu line, the cheaper supermarkets and drugstores become (in my experience).
There ARE blue-collar foreigners here, but many of them are Brazilian or Peruvian Nikkei. The vast majority of the rest are immigrants from Asian or Middle Eastern countries. I have never met or seen a westerner doing a blue-collar job here. However, if one were married to a Japanese person and on a marriage visa, they might be able to get a blue-collar job.
Most English-speaking people with 4-year university degrees (needed for a work visa) who are desperate for a job in Japan end up teaching English.
I have seen foreigners working at restaurants and at the Gap, though. They are mostly students doing part-time jobs.
posted by koakuma at 8:29 PM on July 30, 2007
There ARE blue-collar foreigners here, but many of them are Brazilian or Peruvian Nikkei. The vast majority of the rest are immigrants from Asian or Middle Eastern countries. I have never met or seen a westerner doing a blue-collar job here. However, if one were married to a Japanese person and on a marriage visa, they might be able to get a blue-collar job.
Most English-speaking people with 4-year university degrees (needed for a work visa) who are desperate for a job in Japan end up teaching English.
I have seen foreigners working at restaurants and at the Gap, though. They are mostly students doing part-time jobs.
posted by koakuma at 8:29 PM on July 30, 2007
To get any kind of blue-collar visa you generally need to have a spousal visa. . . . teachers etc. work on "Specialist in Humanities". Engineer-types can work on engineering visas.
Age barriers definitely exist . . . 30 is a soft-limit to get into a company, and 40 is generally the hard-limit that companies don't hire over.
Other than getting a visa and stable employment, life in Tokyo kicks ass. But I bailed at age 32 so I wouldn't know how 30-something life is.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 9:31 PM on July 30, 2007
Age barriers definitely exist . . . 30 is a soft-limit to get into a company, and 40 is generally the hard-limit that companies don't hire over.
Other than getting a visa and stable employment, life in Tokyo kicks ass. But I bailed at age 32 so I wouldn't know how 30-something life is.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 9:31 PM on July 30, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:14 PM on July 30, 2007 [1 favorite]