Repairing Outdoor Stairs (Brick, framed by RR Ties)

July 7, 2007 12:06 PM

[Landscaping-for-Beginners-Filter] Where can I buy railroad ties (or a green-friendly alternative) for a backyard brick staircase? What's the best way to repair the staircase

I bought my first house recently and there is a gentle slope in the backyard, with a brick staircase framed by railroad ties.

Many of the railroad ties are broken or rotted and I would like to replace some or all of them. I would consider another material as I've read that RR Ties are not environmentally friendly (if this is untrue, let me know).

Where can I buy RR Ties (or equivalent), cut-to-order? I checked the Home Depot website and couldn't find anything?

And can you give me any advice on how to 1.)remove the old ones, 2.) install the new ones. Any obstacles or difficulties I should anticipate? Any tools I might need?

I'm a relatively handy person but with no experience doing this kind of project -- any advice would be appreciated.

posted by Alabaster to home & garden (8 comments total)

Home depot's website is a subset of their store inventory. (they don't tell you that, so how would you know?)

Any landscaping supply company sells landscape timbers (same as RR ties)

RR ties are preserved through use of creosote, which has been found to be a carcinogen, but as with any carcinogen, the amount of exposure is relevant. I looked into this (superficially, you should do your own research) and *I concluded that I would not work with creosote all day long as a job, but that I would tolerate it in my landscape timbers, which I would only incidentally come in contact with. The landscaping ties you can buy are not treated with creosote, or with much of anything, and need a coat of sealer every couple of seasons to extend their life.

As far as installing them, I drilled holes through them (use a highpowered drill with a 1/2" chuck and one of those footlong bits, I rented mine) and then tied them together by pounding in really long nails that HD carries. Not sure if you have to stack yours, if not, disregard.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:30 PM on July 7, 2007

You have googled phrases like "railroad tie retaining wall," right? That, plus a basic "how to build retaining walls" book from your local Home Depot or equivalent will give you most of what you are looking for.

RR ties are soaked in creosote, which is pretty foul stuff. On the other hand, if you are able to buy used RR ties, that seems to me to be more ecologically benign than buying some alternative product that is newly made. You can also buy "landscape timbers," which around here means lightly treated and partially rounded 4x4's -- much smaller and lighter than RR ties. (The names of these things may not be consistent place to place, so make sure you are getting what you think you are asking for when you do your shopping.) Either can be attached together with large spikes or with pieces of rebar pounded in with a mallet.

Around here I see them for sale at building supply places, and sometimes on the side of the road out of trailers. Have you phoned your local building and landscape supply stores? (This is the kind of question that is often really easy to solve with a phone call.) I've never seen them sold cut-to-order, although maybe that is done in big cities? The easiest way I've seen to cut them is with a small chainsaw. Either way, if you have to cut them, don't breath the dust.

If you want to avoid the treated wood, then you might want to look closely at some of the concrete retaining wall systems. Googling "retaining wall blocks" brings up any number of manufacturers' websites; your local building supply stores as well as specialized masonry suppliers will have several varieties to choose from. If the wall gets above about 4', you will want some sort of professional involvement, at least in the form of your local permitting and inspection office.
posted by Forktine at 12:43 PM on July 7, 2007

Many of the railroad ties are broken or rotted and I would like to replace some or all of them.

Fix your foundation first. As has already been observed in the thread, RR ties are soaked in creosote, but even the railroads install them over a bed of well-drained gravel. If the ones you have are rotted, the reason is because they are sitting on something which is often wet. Putting new ones in place of the old will just result in you getting to do this job again in a few years' time.
posted by three blind mice at 1:07 PM on July 7, 2007

Even the railroads are gradually switching to ties made out of concrete or composites (but generally they need to maintain old routes the way they were built, so wooden ties haven't disappeared).

There are alternatives, especially if you are rebuilding the entire wall. Not only the aforementioned "landscape timbers" but also the ubiquitous formed (and sometimes interlocking) concrete blocks. I have a RR tie wall that is collapsing and that's the method I'm planning on using.
posted by dhartung at 1:27 PM on July 7, 2007

I see railroad ties on Freecycle and the like frequently. Reusing something is going to be the green friendly alternative here.
posted by yohko at 4:32 PM on July 7, 2007

Old railroaders all used to get skin cancer on their neck or face, but most of them were carrying the ties on their shoulders for a decade or three before they got it. Reasonable precautions about touching it when you put it in, and you'll really never touch it again until you replace it, make it a pretty low risk operation. If you smoke, don't touch your face with anything contaminated, like gloves. If you have kids or plan to sell the house in the next few years, that would be a consideration, since they don't call them rugrats for nothing.
But, yeah, you want good drainage. You want to consider the drainage in any project you undertake in the future as well.
posted by unrepentanthippie at 8:35 AM on July 8, 2007

I have bought used railroad ties at a building supply house (not the local Home Depot); they are definitely much more sturdy and attractive, but harder to work with than landscape timbers. They are pretty easy to cut; a chainsaw can be used, but I had a lot of luck using a circular saw set to maximum depth on all 4 sides (be careful to line the cuts up) followed by a few strokes with a bow saw to finish off the bit in the center. I then tied eveything together with a long drill bit and rebar as described above. Rebar is good for this sort of thing as it is cheap and can be cut to length easily if you want to do 2 or 3 runs of railroad ties. The little elevated bed I made turned out so well that at some point I want to do the entire front of my house this way.
posted by TedW at 10:12 AM on July 8, 2007

One trick for doing a cut like TedW describes is to get a chalkline marker and wrap the string tight around the timber so that it meets where it started, and then snap it on all four surfaces.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:26 PM on July 9, 2007