Am I not Godly enough for her?
June 27, 2007 5:39 AM Subscribe
Why won't the fundamentalist Christian I work with say "God bless you" or at least "Bless you" after I sneeze?
I work in a small, all-female office. Whenever someone sneezes, anyone within earshot usually shouts out "Bless you", or "God bless you". I've noticed that the fundamentalist who I share a cube wall with will only say gesundheit. Is there some fundamentalist Christian take on not saying "God Bless" you to people?
I work in a small, all-female office. Whenever someone sneezes, anyone within earshot usually shouts out "Bless you", or "God bless you". I've noticed that the fundamentalist who I share a cube wall with will only say gesundheit. Is there some fundamentalist Christian take on not saying "God Bless" you to people?
Any possibility the fundamentalist is trying to be sensitive to your religious feelings, rather than assuming that everyone around her shares her worldviews? It might be nicer than the alternative - my wife worked with a woman who could not get herself to leave her Christianity at the door, and for an agnostic like my wife it made life in the workplace very uncomfortable.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:44 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by caution live frogs at 5:44 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
A lot of my mother's side of the family, of German descent, grew up in heavily German parts of Pittsburgh. A number of random German words entered my language as a kid, including "gesundheit." I never heard anyone in my family say "bless you."
Granted, we're not religious at all, but it entered as a cultural thing, and is a habit that was hard to break. Maybe that's her case as well?
posted by olinerd at 5:45 AM on June 27, 2007
Granted, we're not religious at all, but it entered as a cultural thing, and is a habit that was hard to break. Maybe that's her case as well?
posted by olinerd at 5:45 AM on June 27, 2007
Maybe they just have a personal aversion to the phrase, like I do.
I have regular allergy attacks, and it drives me NUTS when people in my office continue to say "Bless you" every time I sneeze. Because it is almost certain that I am just going to do it again in about ninety seconds, and it gets really old.
Plus, it drives me nuts because generally when someone says "Bless you," you're supposed to acknowledge it thanking them (or at least, that's how it works in my experience). So here I am, in the middle of an allergy attack, just trying to cope, and they've basically initiated a manners-game. It's also a reminder that everyone around me can ear every sound I make. For god's sake, let me snuffle and snort in peace, people!!
So unless I am in a one-on-one conversation with someone which is interrupted by a sneeze that can't help but be acknowledged, I never, ever say "Bless you."
posted by hermitosis at 5:47 AM on June 27, 2007 [9 favorites]
I have regular allergy attacks, and it drives me NUTS when people in my office continue to say "Bless you" every time I sneeze. Because it is almost certain that I am just going to do it again in about ninety seconds, and it gets really old.
Plus, it drives me nuts because generally when someone says "Bless you," you're supposed to acknowledge it thanking them (or at least, that's how it works in my experience). So here I am, in the middle of an allergy attack, just trying to cope, and they've basically initiated a manners-game. It's also a reminder that everyone around me can ear every sound I make. For god's sake, let me snuffle and snort in peace, people!!
So unless I am in a one-on-one conversation with someone which is interrupted by a sneeze that can't help but be acknowledged, I never, ever say "Bless you."
posted by hermitosis at 5:47 AM on June 27, 2007 [9 favorites]
I've noticed that the fundamentalist who I share a cube wall with will only say gesundheit.
One fundamentalist is not a good sampling.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:48 AM on June 27, 2007
One fundamentalist is not a good sampling.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:48 AM on June 27, 2007
When I first started working in the US, I was surprised and perplexed at the quantity of barely familiar people piping up to incant spells everytime I sneezed. It's a cultural thing that seems very US-centric - maybe she's from an immigrant family that was not as strongly acculturated to native habits or, yes, saying G_d out loud might sound sacreligious.
posted by meehawl at 6:02 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by meehawl at 6:02 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
My sister, who is not fundamentalist, but has increasingly Christian over the past several years, does not say anything when someone sneezes. When I noticed this last summer I was surprised, because I almost say something (usually gesundheit because I don't like the religious overtones of bless you), so I asked her about it. Her response, "It's not my place to bless anyone." So, it is indeed her religious scruples that get in the way of courtesy, but not her opinion about my worthiness but her own.
posted by OmieWise at 6:06 AM on June 27, 2007
posted by OmieWise at 6:06 AM on June 27, 2007
An educated fundy might not say it because it's based on a silly old superstition. Anyone who doesn't do this is doing good in my book! I hate the stupid custom.
Gesundheit: I grew up in Michigan, more German than I ever appreciated, before living in Germany. A common word in my background. Then, in Germany, the cigarette packs all assure me the "Gesundheitminister" says smoking is hazordous. Many chuckles from that, as, to me, it read "The minister of sneezes" (shades of Monty Python).
posted by Goofyy at 6:12 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Gesundheit: I grew up in Michigan, more German than I ever appreciated, before living in Germany. A common word in my background. Then, in Germany, the cigarette packs all assure me the "Gesundheitminister" says smoking is hazordous. Many chuckles from that, as, to me, it read "The minister of sneezes" (shades of Monty Python).
posted by Goofyy at 6:12 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
So, it is indeed her religious scruples that get in the way of courtesy, but not her opinion about my worthiness but her own.And, evidently, not knowing the meaning of ‘gesundheit.’
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 6:13 AM on June 27, 2007
Why don't you just ask her?
posted by jpdoane at 6:21 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by jpdoane at 6:21 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
It originated in the middle ages when people thought sneezing invited bad spirits into your body. Most people believe this to be a completely wacko idea today. I don't say anything when people sneeze because of that. It's a silly left over of long ago and should be forgotten.
Do you say "God Bless You" when people cough or fart?
posted by blue_beetle at 6:36 AM on June 27, 2007
Do you say "God Bless You" when people cough or fart?
posted by blue_beetle at 6:36 AM on June 27, 2007
Best answer: I used to work with a practicing Christian who would not say it either. I asked him about it once and i forget the details but it was something along the lines of he doesn't have the right to bless anybody, or to speak on behalf of God. Equally if somebody else said Bless You to him when he sneezed he would not say Thank You, for the same (inverted) reason.
posted by jontyjago at 6:45 AM on June 27, 2007
posted by jontyjago at 6:45 AM on June 27, 2007
It originated in the middle ages when people thought sneezing invited bad spirits into your body. Most people believe this to be a completely wacko idea today.
I still "gesundheit" people who sneeze, if it's not too disruptive to do so, and I certainly don't believe in evil spirits. What I do believe is that a sneeze often indicates some kind of health trouble, whether it's a cold or allergies or something more serious, and I don't think it's out of line to wish someone better luck with their respiratory system.
And yeah, I think there are many possible reasons why this one particular person doesn't bless sneezes, and they may or may not be related to religion. Everyone's doing a good job already of coming up with possibilities.
posted by vytae at 6:47 AM on June 27, 2007
I still "gesundheit" people who sneeze, if it's not too disruptive to do so, and I certainly don't believe in evil spirits. What I do believe is that a sneeze often indicates some kind of health trouble, whether it's a cold or allergies or something more serious, and I don't think it's out of line to wish someone better luck with their respiratory system.
And yeah, I think there are many possible reasons why this one particular person doesn't bless sneezes, and they may or may not be related to religion. Everyone's doing a good job already of coming up with possibilities.
posted by vytae at 6:47 AM on June 27, 2007
I am a Christian and I certainly DO have the right to bless anybody I want. I say gesundheit or bless you or whatever when someone sneezes without thinking about it-plate of beans and all that. But I suspect your coworker might simply have her own personal reasons for how she treats your sneezes. Why not ask her?
(Come to think of it, it is rather a silly superstition, but I just think of it as a cultural form of politeness, I guess.)
posted by konolia at 6:52 AM on June 27, 2007
(Come to think of it, it is rather a silly superstition, but I just think of it as a cultural form of politeness, I guess.)
posted by konolia at 6:52 AM on June 27, 2007
I moved to the US 6 years ago after living in NZ and the UK, and getting used to the multitudes of people who say "God bless you" and then especially the "thank you" in reply is still odd. It's very much a cultural thing, I think, and as other people have mentioned, if she or her parents have lived overseas it may just not be a reflex.
I can't stand it myself, particuarly the "thank you" for the reasons that hermitosis mentioned.
posted by gaspode at 7:01 AM on June 27, 2007
I can't stand it myself, particuarly the "thank you" for the reasons that hermitosis mentioned.
posted by gaspode at 7:01 AM on June 27, 2007
Count your lucky stars (to use another stupid phrase) that she doesn't say it.
Just because she's a fundamentalist doesn't mean she necessarily believes in other superstitious things.
I'm an atheist, but I've read a variety of "holy books" out of interest, and I don't ever recall reading anything about spirits escaping noses and such. Her fundamentalism perhaps does not speak to whether people who sneeze need immediate divine protection.
posted by modernnomad at 7:12 AM on June 27, 2007
Just because she's a fundamentalist doesn't mean she necessarily believes in other superstitious things.
I'm an atheist, but I've read a variety of "holy books" out of interest, and I don't ever recall reading anything about spirits escaping noses and such. Her fundamentalism perhaps does not speak to whether people who sneeze need immediate divine protection.
posted by modernnomad at 7:12 AM on June 27, 2007
I have fundy siblings so I'm going to channel them for a moment. It will be painful, but for you? I'll do it.
Fundamentalist Christians tend to get really hung up on little details and semantics of origin. For example, my oldest sister forbid her children to open cards or keep presents that had Santa Claus on them because she said they were encouraging Pagan beliefs and promoting lies. This may be a similar type of thing. While there's no definitive answer to the question of where "Bless you" came from, there are legends that imply it was Pagan in origin. That alone is enough to make a Fundamentalist Christian declare it to be forbidden, sinful behavior that is only encouraged or committed by people who do not honor Him and are probably going to Hell.
My sister's church also believes that women should never wear pants because the view from behind is sinful. But I personally feel that God likes a good pair of jeans.
posted by miss lynnster at 7:47 AM on June 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
Fundamentalist Christians tend to get really hung up on little details and semantics of origin. For example, my oldest sister forbid her children to open cards or keep presents that had Santa Claus on them because she said they were encouraging Pagan beliefs and promoting lies. This may be a similar type of thing. While there's no definitive answer to the question of where "Bless you" came from, there are legends that imply it was Pagan in origin. That alone is enough to make a Fundamentalist Christian declare it to be forbidden, sinful behavior that is only encouraged or committed by people who do not honor Him and are probably going to Hell.
My sister's church also believes that women should never wear pants because the view from behind is sinful. But I personally feel that God likes a good pair of jeans.
posted by miss lynnster at 7:47 AM on June 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
I have spent most of my life around fundies / charismatics in different parts of the country. There is no anti-"bless you" stance common to them. It must be an individual decision by that person, or maybe just they way she was raised. Or it could be something her specific pastor mentioned in a sermon, and she latched on to. Or it could have absolutely nothing to do with her religion whatsoever.
If there IS some religious component (and this is total and complete speculation), it could be that she considers it "using the Lord's name in vain" by trivializing it.
posted by The Deej at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
If there IS some religious component (and this is total and complete speculation), it could be that she considers it "using the Lord's name in vain" by trivializing it.
posted by The Deej at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Perhaps she feels that you, as a "heathen," deserve no blessing.
posted by sourwookie at 8:04 AM on June 27, 2007
posted by sourwookie at 8:04 AM on June 27, 2007
It's a cultural thing that seems very US-centric
Anecdotally echoing this, as I don't get blessed when I'm in the UK, nor does my husband (raised in Canada) bless me.
What I do believe is that a sneeze often indicates some kind of health trouble, whether it's a cold or allergies or something more serious, and I don't think it's out of line to wish someone better luck with their respiratory system.
I do it, out of habit (I guess my mom did it. It's not a religious thing as I'm at best a secular agnostic.). I've never, ever once considered that it might be invasive or annoying to the sneezer -- though I will in the future. (Although, it's likely too ingrained a habit for me to stop.).
Similar to vytae, I see saying "bless you" when someone sneezes as a way to acknowledge the human condition. It only takes a second, and in essence I'm saying, "Hey, possibly-sick-person, hope you feel better, I sneeze too, we all sneeze, happens to everybody, I know I'm a total stranger but I'm still wishing you well."
For what it's worth, I don't repeatedly say it after every sneeze if someone is clearly having an attack, just once at the end. I lived in Central Texas, a hotbed of seasonal allergy activity, and those long sneezing spells always seemed to elicit a bit of embarrassment on the part of the sneezer, especially in public or workplace. I thought that saying "bless you" with a smile was a way to normalize the fact that the other person just spent 10 minutes involuntarily spewing their saliva and snot into the atmosphere.
I realize that this makes me plate-of-beans candidate but I have to confess that I've thought about the sociology of "bless you" on many, many occasions -- why we do it, why some people don't, what it means -- and I'm secretly thrilled that the topic came up and that people are discussing it.
posted by pineapple at 8:05 AM on June 27, 2007
Anecdotally echoing this, as I don't get blessed when I'm in the UK, nor does my husband (raised in Canada) bless me.
What I do believe is that a sneeze often indicates some kind of health trouble, whether it's a cold or allergies or something more serious, and I don't think it's out of line to wish someone better luck with their respiratory system.
I do it, out of habit (I guess my mom did it. It's not a religious thing as I'm at best a secular agnostic.). I've never, ever once considered that it might be invasive or annoying to the sneezer -- though I will in the future. (Although, it's likely too ingrained a habit for me to stop.).
Similar to vytae, I see saying "bless you" when someone sneezes as a way to acknowledge the human condition. It only takes a second, and in essence I'm saying, "Hey, possibly-sick-person, hope you feel better, I sneeze too, we all sneeze, happens to everybody, I know I'm a total stranger but I'm still wishing you well."
For what it's worth, I don't repeatedly say it after every sneeze if someone is clearly having an attack, just once at the end. I lived in Central Texas, a hotbed of seasonal allergy activity, and those long sneezing spells always seemed to elicit a bit of embarrassment on the part of the sneezer, especially in public or workplace. I thought that saying "bless you" with a smile was a way to normalize the fact that the other person just spent 10 minutes involuntarily spewing their saliva and snot into the atmosphere.
I realize that this makes me plate-of-beans candidate but I have to confess that I've thought about the sociology of "bless you" on many, many occasions -- why we do it, why some people don't, what it means -- and I'm secretly thrilled that the topic came up and that people are discussing it.
posted by pineapple at 8:05 AM on June 27, 2007
Perhaps she feels that you, as a "heathen," deserve no blessing.
In my experience, while it seems like Fundamentalists are doing things to judge you and to make you feel like a heathen, their motivations are actually more inward in nature. It's more that they feel more holy and closer to God by knowing better than to do things they are led to believe that God wouldn't like. They assume that THEY know His Truth, and unfortunately live in a world filled with others who, who while they may be good people, are misled and believe in lies.
A lot of this hinges on people who use religion as self-esteem -- the reward of putting others down to raise yourself higher. For a second, picture yourself at 8 years old... you find yourself telling everybody that the neighbor kid is stupid and teasing him. You didn't necessarily REALLY believe the kid was stupid, but the truth is you were insecure so you made yourself feel like a better and higher level person by putting him in a lower place than you. You might even have done this because you were jealous or intimidated by him & it was your way of taking control.
Some people don't outgrow that. I know that without religion my Fundy relatives feel they are totally inferior humans. My oldest sister is 56 yet still talks about being unpopular in high school. The dedication she gives to God makes her feel like her life has purpose and that she has done something worthy, as though she may not fit in the world but someone more important finds her perfect. Going to church 4x a week and nixing Santa and pants makes my sister believe she is a validated and important person. Some people cling to that stuff. They need it to survive.
For others, it's choosing to say Gesundheit.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:41 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
In my experience, while it seems like Fundamentalists are doing things to judge you and to make you feel like a heathen, their motivations are actually more inward in nature. It's more that they feel more holy and closer to God by knowing better than to do things they are led to believe that God wouldn't like. They assume that THEY know His Truth, and unfortunately live in a world filled with others who, who while they may be good people, are misled and believe in lies.
A lot of this hinges on people who use religion as self-esteem -- the reward of putting others down to raise yourself higher. For a second, picture yourself at 8 years old... you find yourself telling everybody that the neighbor kid is stupid and teasing him. You didn't necessarily REALLY believe the kid was stupid, but the truth is you were insecure so you made yourself feel like a better and higher level person by putting him in a lower place than you. You might even have done this because you were jealous or intimidated by him & it was your way of taking control.
Some people don't outgrow that. I know that without religion my Fundy relatives feel they are totally inferior humans. My oldest sister is 56 yet still talks about being unpopular in high school. The dedication she gives to God makes her feel like her life has purpose and that she has done something worthy, as though she may not fit in the world but someone more important finds her perfect. Going to church 4x a week and nixing Santa and pants makes my sister believe she is a validated and important person. Some people cling to that stuff. They need it to survive.
For others, it's choosing to say Gesundheit.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:41 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
By the way, my personal habit is to say "Bless you," then wait for the second sneeze & say "Bless you twice" and then if they sneeze a third time then I say, "Bless you three times but that's it. Now you're on your own." Then I boycott. Screw 'em.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:47 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by miss lynnster at 8:47 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
When I was a kid, my little friend next door would say "Bless you" the first two times someone sneezed, and then after that, "Consider yourself blessed." [Flag as anecdotal if you will, but I thought I'd follow up on miss lynnster's comment.]
posted by matildaben at 9:04 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by matildaben at 9:04 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
In my [Catholic] family the third sneeze will probably elicit "now you're just looking for attention!"
posted by olecranon at 9:17 AM on June 27, 2007
posted by olecranon at 9:17 AM on June 27, 2007
I never say 'bless you' because of the rather dark undertones of the etymology...
From the wiki:
To combat the plague, Gregory ordered litanies, processions, and unceasing prayer for God's blessing. When someone sneezed (seen as the initial onset of the plague), they were immediately blessed ("God bless you!") in the hope that they would not actually develop the disease.
Because of this, when I was in high school my friends and I started saying 'Gee, I hope you don't have the plague' whenever anyone sneezed as we felt out saying was more secular and amusing.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:38 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
From the wiki:
To combat the plague, Gregory ordered litanies, processions, and unceasing prayer for God's blessing. When someone sneezed (seen as the initial onset of the plague), they were immediately blessed ("God bless you!") in the hope that they would not actually develop the disease.
Because of this, when I was in high school my friends and I started saying 'Gee, I hope you don't have the plague' whenever anyone sneezed as we felt out saying was more secular and amusing.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:38 AM on June 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
i had thought the "G-d bless you" thing was in response to the scarlet fever, when sneezing was perceived as an indication of impending illness. "Gesundheit" ('good health') would bear that out a little. So it's not about the superstitious-soul-thing, so much as a i-hope-you-dont-die thing. to which the polite the response would likely be, "thank you [for hoping I dont die. I, too, hope I dont die]."
also, just because someone is deeply religious ('fundamentalist') does *not* mean every action, utterance, or glance is motivated by his or her religious convictions. they are religious, yes, but they are also humans with the full menu of human experiences.
posted by prophetsearcher at 9:49 AM on June 27, 2007
also, just because someone is deeply religious ('fundamentalist') does *not* mean every action, utterance, or glance is motivated by his or her religious convictions. they are religious, yes, but they are also humans with the full menu of human experiences.
posted by prophetsearcher at 9:49 AM on June 27, 2007
He doesn't have the right to bless anybody, or to speak on behalf of God
Just so. All you pseudo-padres, listen up. Previously.
posted by Rash at 11:28 AM on June 27, 2007
Just so. All you pseudo-padres, listen up. Previously.
posted by Rash at 11:28 AM on June 27, 2007
I grew up fundy, and we would say 'bless you' but not 'God bless you' because it would be taking God's name in vain.
posted by happyturtle at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2007
posted by happyturtle at 11:37 AM on June 27, 2007
so why would you say ...
Because it sounds like "gesundheit". People thank me for saying it all the time so I guess it is appreciated.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 12:36 PM on June 27, 2007
Because it sounds like "gesundheit". People thank me for saying it all the time so I guess it is appreciated.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 12:36 PM on June 27, 2007
Having grown up in a pretty fundamental Christian church, I remember our pastor several times referencing Ephesians 1:3 in saying that we've already been blessed with all the spiritual blessings in the heavens... so what is the point of blessing further? He was an eminently practical man.
However, it wasn't a life-or-death topic amidst our congregation. I've shot it back to a family member once or twice, half tongue-in-cheek, and if memory serves have had it supplied for me, too. But, we weren't/aren't quite the scary extremist fundamental types.
posted by dorothy humbird at 3:12 PM on June 27, 2007
However, it wasn't a life-or-death topic amidst our congregation. I've shot it back to a family member once or twice, half tongue-in-cheek, and if memory serves have had it supplied for me, too. But, we weren't/aren't quite the scary extremist fundamental types.
posted by dorothy humbird at 3:12 PM on June 27, 2007
Mod note: a few comments removed, just because it's answered doesn't mean you can go all chatfilter on this
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:37 PM on June 27, 2007
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:37 PM on June 27, 2007
As one such Christian, I can say in my case it was because of its supposedly pagan origins, and I would somehow be perpetuating the pagan myth.
I have shifted a little.
If people nowadays said "bless you" or "God bless you" because they honestly or even partially believed you sneezed part of your soul away, and seven sneezes later would be totally soulless, then I would still not say it, because I want no part of promoting pagan activities, but...
...I don't think anyone remotely believes that anymore, and anyway, it clearly isn't so. So now I say it, because, hey, why not? It's now just part of the culture, and has no spiritual meaning, beyond a desire for the sneezee to have a nice day.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 5:36 PM on June 27, 2007
I have shifted a little.
If people nowadays said "bless you" or "God bless you" because they honestly or even partially believed you sneezed part of your soul away, and seven sneezes later would be totally soulless, then I would still not say it, because I want no part of promoting pagan activities, but...
...I don't think anyone remotely believes that anymore, and anyway, it clearly isn't so. So now I say it, because, hey, why not? It's now just part of the culture, and has no spiritual meaning, beyond a desire for the sneezee to have a nice day.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 5:36 PM on June 27, 2007
I'm a Christian and I say "gesundheit" for three reasons:
1) "Gesundheit" says what I mean
2) "Bless you" is less of a "good health" and more of a "here's some magic pixie dust to keep the evil stank off you"
3) I like the way it sounds
I've never heard anyone say anything about not being worthy to bless other people. That's one of the oddest things I've heard in awhile.
posted by monkeymadness at 6:41 PM on June 27, 2007
1) "Gesundheit" says what I mean
2) "Bless you" is less of a "good health" and more of a "here's some magic pixie dust to keep the evil stank off you"
3) I like the way it sounds
I've never heard anyone say anything about not being worthy to bless other people. That's one of the oddest things I've heard in awhile.
posted by monkeymadness at 6:41 PM on June 27, 2007
I've always assumed that both "bless you" and "God bless you" were both shorthand for "may God bless you", so I don't understand the worthiness objection.
posted by robcorr at 12:23 AM on June 28, 2007
posted by robcorr at 12:23 AM on June 28, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Plate of beans, much?
posted by idiotfactory at 5:41 AM on June 27, 2007 [2 favorites]