Talking to the Apes

April 15, 2004 2:06 PM

This might be an easy one for you all. My former roommate was telling me about this book that sounded really interesting but I cant think of the title for the life of me. All i remember is that the book contained a conversation between an ape and a human being about evolution or something like that. Ring any bells?
posted by Slimemonster to media & arts (17 comments total)

"Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn. Awesome book.
posted by tristeza at 2:15 PM on April 15, 2004

Could also be Great Apes, by Will Self.
posted by gleuschk at 2:16 PM on April 15, 2004

There's a short story called "The Decent of Man". It it a man is dating a woman who is working with super smart chimps or something. Through the course of the story, he becomes more chimp like while the super smart chimp becomes more man like.
posted by willnot at 2:18 PM on April 15, 2004

Definitely "Ishmael." A must read, but avoid the sequels like the plague though. . .
posted by Quartermass at 2:20 PM on April 15, 2004

Ishmael... though poor writing and questionable thesis.
posted by tranquileye at 2:32 PM on April 15, 2004

Just look on the bright side: you're no longer living with someone who recommended Ishmael. Flip through it in a bookstore and thrill at the countless tiring pseudointellectual conversations you have no doubt avoided.
posted by bingo at 3:18 PM on April 15, 2004

So you're a pretty big Ishmael fan, bingo?
posted by Slimemonster at 3:27 PM on April 15, 2004

I second those that are questioning Ishmael's worthiness. Although I generally agree with arguments made in the book, the way they're presented is so patronizing and full of baby-boomer hippy self-glorification that it makes me sick. I'm sure you could get the same info contained in that book from sources that provide a lot substance in their delivery and aren't anywhere near as condescending. Hell, just watch Fight Club; that's almost the same message.
posted by LionIndex at 3:30 PM on April 15, 2004

Well, I came to bash Ishmael as well. Seems like I won't be needed here after all. *swoops off*
posted by callmejay at 3:32 PM on April 15, 2004

Judge for yourself. The first 20 pages seemed pretty pretentious and dated to me.
posted by waxpancake at 4:51 PM on April 15, 2004

I guess it depends on where you were in life when you read the book. I was in college and had all these ideas that could never be put into words. When I read Ishmael, it was like Yes! That's what I've been feeling but couldn't figure out. So I really liked it. Gave me confirmation that I wasn't nuts (believe it or not, at the time, even in college, I still seemed "different"; guess that's what happens when you go to a commuter school).
posted by evening at 5:21 PM on April 15, 2004

All things considered (well, maybe that's over my head), Ishmael's a basically good write - I have gripes with it's historical overview, sure. But it's heart is in the right place.
posted by troutfishing at 8:55 PM on April 15, 2004

Yeah, I totally agree with troutfishing here. It is pretty shlockey at places, a little too heavy handed in others, but overall, it is a pretty good read. But again as evening notes, it is definitely a time and place thing.

When I read it, I was starting university, and was at the right time for me, and thus I am fairly forgiving of its flaws now.

By all means, I don't feel "above it'" in any sense, and to anyone in that phase of trying to figure shit out, it is great.
posted by Quartermass at 10:08 PM on April 15, 2004

Or you could watch the movie...
posted by drezdn at 10:52 PM on April 15, 2004

There's another one with apes and humans that's really, really good. The Last Battle by Clive Lewis. Far more philosophically intriguing than Ishmael. Last installment of the Narnia Chronicles.
posted by headless at 12:50 AM on April 16, 2004

Even if it isn't Great Apes by Will Self, read it anyway :)
posted by terrapin at 8:03 AM on April 16, 2004

it is definitely a time and place thing

Absolutely. Reminds me very much of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and Catcher in the Rye in that way. I read Ishmael at just the right time, and loved it, though I now see it as schlock. I read the other two far, far too late for them to do me any good.
posted by MrMoonPie at 9:02 AM on April 16, 2004