Dog biting

June 23, 2007 8:53 AM

Why has my perfectly nice dog with no history of biting suddenly doing it? Please help me save my face.

I feel a little awkward asking my vet this question, so I thought I would ask all you wonderful people. Ben is a Newfie/Retreiver mix about three years old. He has always been a very loving dog who just melts if you pet him, which is his favorite activity when not sleeping. So, he has no history of biting or snapping.

We moved to a new apartment a month ago; any anxiety he felt surrounding the move dissipated within a few days of moving. But in the last week he has snapped at three different people on three different occasions.

1) The first was a six year old girl who was over with her parents for a BBQ. She was acting a little frightened around Ben and thankfully he just jumped up at her and bonked her nose.

2) Later when everyone left we just had two friends over. A friend was playing with Ben and he snapped at his face but thankfully missed. The friend had played with Ben before and the dog did not seem in an odd mood at all.

3) Then, this morning we had just returned from our morning walk. Ben had played with a few dogs, which is not uncommon. He was laying down on the floor and I bent down and was petting him in the same way I have done countless times. Then, snap. I have a puncture wound under my nose and on my chin.

Why might he be doing this? He has never bit anyone or anything (he even sniffed a live squirrel without taking a taste) and then three times in one week he does it. Before and after he does it he is perfectly placid. No bursts of aggression of playfulness. Just Ben on second, snap the next, and back to normal the third.

Any additional information you guys may need yours for the asking. Any suggestions on how to handle the situation would be very appreciated.


Thank you hivemind.

posted by munchingzombie to Pets & Animals (31 answers total)

This is something you will need to ask your vet. It still could be anxiety, but weird behavioral changes can indicate something going on physically.
posted by dilettante at 9:04 AM on June 23, 2007

There's a chance that he may be sore. Our dog has had some hip problems and when she overdoes it they get really sore. She's snapped at me a couple times just for touching her hindquarter a bit too hard.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 9:11 AM on June 23, 2007

Response by poster: I do have every intention of taking him to the vet, I should say. I am just a little panicy this morning after the incident and wanted the metaopinion.

Thank you dilettante
posted by munchingzombie at 9:13 AM on June 23, 2007

My first thought was a physical problem, too, that people/dogs are aggravating or hurting inadvertently. I wouldn't panic before getting him checked out.

(Also, a Newfie/Retriever mix sounds like the cutest dog ever!)
posted by occhiblu at 9:25 AM on June 23, 2007

occhiblu: he is the cutest dog ever (He's my dog too)
posted by voidcontext at 9:29 AM on June 23, 2007

The only time my dog ever started snapping at people like this was due to pain (in his case, he had had a reaction to his vaccinations that had made his back sore).

It was very much like you describe - one snap and then back to normal. The same sort of off-hand snap he'd give another dog that was being aggressive.
posted by Crosius at 9:35 AM on June 23, 2007

Get it sorted ASAP. It's worrying that on the three occasions, he's gone for the face.
posted by Solomon at 9:47 AM on June 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Sounds like he's in pain.
It's only reasonable to exclude children from his environment and warn adults until you know. Just because he's nipping now doesn't mean he won't escalate; I've known it to happen.
posted by unrepentanthippie at 10:08 AM on June 23, 2007

On the "gone for the face" concern -- dogs usually go for the face when they're dealing with other dogs in a dominance situation. The bonk on the chin to the six year old might've been licking, though... my dog loves licking little girls' chins. Dogs rarey go for the face in a real attack, they'll go for a limb, stomach or a throat instead.
posted by SpecialK at 10:08 AM on June 23, 2007

uh, ... in a dominance situation or warning another dog away because they're in pain or something is "wrong" with them that would screw up their normally expected reactions in doggy behaviour language.

Sorry, I blame tyleonol3 -- had surgery earlier this week.
posted by SpecialK at 10:11 AM on June 23, 2007

OMG I'm dying from the cute!!!
posted by occhiblu at 10:22 AM on June 23, 2007

Unrepentanthippie, we don't have kids around and we're definitely keeping him away from any and all strangers.
posted by voidcontext at 10:52 AM on June 23, 2007

Response by poster: The consensus seems to be get him to a vet and relax. When they open monday I will give them a ring. Kids and strangers will be locked out. And I will stamp another "ZOMG he is cute" onto his fuselage.

Thank you everyone.
posted by munchingzombie at 11:06 AM on June 23, 2007

A sudden change like that, it could easily be pain. I don't understand why you thought it would be 'awkward' to ask the vet...?

On preview: glad you'll be taking him in, I hope he's OK!
posted by tomboko at 11:52 AM on June 23, 2007

My lab had a similar behavior change quite a few years ago. He was always a kid friendly dog and suddenly snapped at both of my friend's kids over the course of a weekend. Later that week I was petting him and he started to growl when I got near a certain point on his ribcage. I called the vet and she said it sounded like he either bruised or fractured a rib. It took a few months of healing before he stopped growling when I pet him, but, he has been kid/people friendly ever since.
posted by a22lamia at 12:02 PM on June 23, 2007

Response by poster: Tomboko: I felt akward when I wrote the post because my face was dripping blood. I had Old Yeller visions of my head of my mother putting a stern hand on my shoulder and telling me "Yer a man now Toby". So, I felt a little freaked. Much calmer with a scabby face though.
posted by munchingzombie at 12:08 PM on June 23, 2007

Along with being careful about petting him, be careful bending over him like you described. Whether it's pain and he's afraid you'll hurt him or it's dominance or anxiety, bending over a dog - looming, like - is often a trigger for the dog to give you a correction. When dogs do it to each other, it's in the face - even in pretend Big Bad Dog play, my beasts play-bite each others' mouths, and they'll even tug on each others' jowls and ears. They don't understand face = extra bad.

I had a dog who was headshy, with all but his very best friends. I had to warn people "he can (and will, sorry about the demon breath) put his face in your face, but do not put yours in his." And then I had to warn them that when he did put his face in their face, he would sneeze on them so they should keep their eyes and mouths closed. He was fine as long as he didn't feel like his space was getting invaded.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:34 PM on June 23, 2007

It sounds like pain but the other thing to consider is that he is now three and a mature male. You can expect to see behaviour changes +/- 6 months of this age, including various kinds of aggression related to food, toys etc. (This is not a dominance thing, btw. and don't let anyone talk you into doing that "roll the dog on its back to show you're boss" crap. That's a good way to get bitten in the face again.). If the vet can't find anything then a reputable dog behaviouralist/trainer is the next stop and I'd expect them to largely resolve the issue as long as you follow through.

FWIW my friend who is a vet says she gets more golden retreivers to euthanize due to biting than any other dog and she strongly discourages people from getting one for a family dog. But they're cute so no-one listens!
posted by fshgrl at 2:00 PM on June 23, 2007

I also don't allow my dog to put her face anywhere near mine, ever. She stays in her space and I stay in mine. This doesn't mean I can't pet her and wrestle her around and have a great time but she is not allowed to be pushy about it. If she gets too pushy then I walk away. I would not be comfortable being around a dog like Lyn Never describes. Close enough to sneeze on you is too damn close.
posted by fshgrl at 2:03 PM on June 23, 2007

Definitely first thought is the vet.

Second thought is that your dog is experiencing some insecurities and territorial issues because of the move and being in a new environment. He's not feeling in his comfort zone yet. My dog is the sweetest thing ever, but she went through a seriously stressful time about a month after I got her as she was adjusting. She is super sweet but suddenly started snapping at me (and some spiteful peeing on the couch too). Basically, I had to go Dog Whisperer on her ass & quick. I had to let her know that I am the alpha dog and make her world very very small for a while. It was really hard, and it was nuts to think I could be having a power struggle with a 15 pound animal, but I realized that's what was happening. She was feeling out of control in a new environment and reacting. Once she got used to the idea that I'm in charge and she is the follower, she went back to being a sweet dog.

We still have our power struggles once in a while, but she's learned what's acceptable and what isn't & she knows better that to test the boundaries now. Non-play biting is NOT allowed. Ever. With any animal or person. And she knows it. She has never really tried it ever again, thankfully.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:59 PM on June 23, 2007

Fshgirl - your friend's comment about golden retrievers is definitely the first negative thing I've ever heard about the breed. I definitely don't buy it. See also: punish the deed, not the breed.
posted by infinityjinx at 3:13 PM on June 23, 2007

I've felt around his body, and he doesn't seem to react in pain to any particular area or touch. He has been eating a lot of grass this week, maybe it is pain from some sort of stomach trouble (although no other signs of that aside from the grass-eating, no vomit or other stuff).
posted by voidcontext at 3:50 PM on June 23, 2007

Void - he's already bitten you once, muzzle him while you're poking around, or wait and let the vet do it. If you end up having to get medical treatment for a dog bite you're potentially going to be screwed on your homeowners insurance (or homeless if you're a renter).

infinity- you don't have to believe it but I'm reporting what I've been told firsthand by a person that euthanizes a lot of dogs because they bit someone's kid bad enough that it was lose the dog or lose their insurance. JRTs and chihuahuas bite her clients all the time too but usually don't get euthanized because they don't do a lot of damage and it doesn't get reported.
posted by fshgrl at 4:51 PM on June 23, 2007

Nthing the suggestion to go see your vet. We moved a few months ago, and our dog was a bit freaked out for a while, but mostly it just made him more "velcro" than usual- he didn't want to let us out of his sight for the first month or so.

It's my understanding that goldens and labs are often found at or near the top of "most dog bites per breed" lists simply because statistically speaking, there are lots and lots of goldens and labs. The popular breeds often wind up near the top of those lists as a function of numbers rather than anything relating to their breed. As popular breeds change, so do the lists.
posted by ambrosia at 5:55 PM on June 23, 2007

You may want to check out this thread as well. It could very well be a thyroid problem, which you wouldn't be able to detect by poking and prodding. (Note the age similarity too between your dog and the one in the other thread) Thyroid problems generally affect larger breed dogs and onset typically begins around this age. I would advise you to follow biscotti's advice in said thread and send the info off to Jean Dodds.

Also regarding retrievers and biting, retrievers are the most popular breed and also far and away the most popular large breed. As stated, smaller dogs bite all the time but it isn't reported. Add that to the fact that retrievers are "known" to be gentle and "known" to be great with children and you have a lot of families that buy a golden, don't bother to train it and let it unsupervised near small children. Recipe for disaster.
posted by hindmost at 6:48 PM on June 23, 2007

Hindmost, thank you for the link to the other thread. I'll make sure to talk with the vet about that.
posted by voidcontext at 9:05 PM on June 23, 2007

Response by poster: Thank you everyone for your input. I will try anything short of playing with him while behind a hockey mask. But the vet will be next week and from that sage advice and blood work we will see what happens.

If you see a post about getting a facial prostheses you will know things didn't work out.
posted by munchingzombie at 9:37 PM on June 23, 2007

It's my understanding that goldens and labs are often found at or near the top of "most dog bites per breed" lists simply because statistically speaking, there are lots and lots of goldens and labs

Unless they correct for the sheer numbers of labs, perhaps.

It's also possible that there's a selection bias. People who get dogs like retrievers and labs may get them because they're good with kids, because they have kids, so they have more opportunity than other breeds to interact with kids. Etc. More of a miles-driven-per-model problem, in other words.

mz, the only thing I can think of is the adage about the pet psychologist treating the owner. He is trying to correct your behavior somehow. What might you have done/be doing that leads to this? Maybe he experienced a situation where a certain combination of proximity and movement got him whacked in the nose or something, which you promptly forgot about, but he didn't. Stuff like that.

Oh, and eponysterical.
posted by dhartung at 10:20 PM on June 23, 2007

When I was a kid my family had a Golden that was very bitey. They were shocked because they'd always heard that Goldens were great family animals. Also, it wasn't our first dog...we had all been around dogs and puppies before. Yet nothing we did could prevent the biting. Awhile after we got him he got hit by a car and died, Later our vet told us that there are two types of Golden bloodlines now. Goldens that are bred for show or family companionship are sweet and gentle. Goldens that a bred for sporting are high-strung and can get nasty. And sure enough, my mom had gotten our dog from a woman whose husband was breeding Goldens for hunting. So I think there is something to the idea that there are more bitey Goldens than you would imagine.

That being said, I'd be surprised if your Golden/Newfie mix would be sweet and gentle for three years and then suddenly have an attack of genetics that would turn him into a biter. I mean, my biting dog was biting from the time he was born. So it's probably what everyone else said, that he's in pain or it's residual stress from the move. Either way, your vet will help you out. Best of luck!
posted by christinetheslp at 4:41 AM on June 24, 2007

Response by poster: For the record he is not part Golden but part flat-coated retriever. But sweet god a newfie/golden mix would dangerously cute.
posted by munchingzombie at 7:38 AM on June 24, 2007

On the "gone for the face" concern -- dogs usually go for the face when they're dealing with other dogs in a dominance situation.

Actually, they tend to go for the neck. On most dogs that haven't had too much breeding, there is a thick "ruff" of fur that prevents too much damage being done. And if the aggressive dog *really* means business, it will go for the hind legs. There's a lot of damage that can be done there (ie, it can put the other dog out of action by effectively preventing it from moving) with absolutely no defence (claws, teeth).
posted by Solomon at 9:22 AM on June 26, 2007