PSA: go to the dentist before it's too late!

June 18, 2007 3:24 PM

Should I remove my permanent dental retainer?

I've had a retainer bonded to six of my teeth for the last fourteen years. Works great, teeth stay in place. However, it is a pain in the ass to floss around, so I don't floss. Ever.

I finally had the time, money, and fortitude to go to the dentist recently for the first time in six years. Turns out I have moderate gum disease. They scheduled six hours of follow up appointments to clean up all the crap down there. Not fun.

Anyway, I asked about getting the retainer removed, since I am much more likely to floss if I don't have to try and shove one of those hideous floss threaders into my gum line. They said sure, we can do that, but your teeth will move and you'll need to wear a removable retainer every night for the rest of your life. Now I am torn. Should I go for the removable retainer to make it easier to floss? Or should I suck it up and try to use the floss threaders, which I hate with a fucking passion? I can't imagine using a removable retainer for fifty years, but then again neither can I imagine using those little poky torture devices ... help me decide!

posted by crazycanuck to health & fitness (38 comments total)

This is purely anecdotal, but my orthodontist warned me, when I had him take out my permanent bottom retainer, that my teeth would start crowding. That was something like 13 years ago. My teeth are just fine. YMMV.
posted by Addlepated at 3:35 PM on June 18, 2007

I hate floss threaders too (I have braces right now, actually).

Really, I had a removable mouth appliance (not a retainer, but bigger and bulkier), and I would always forget to put it in.

If you can remember to put in the removable one: go for it.

If you can't: keep going with the permanent one. Moving teeth sucks slightly more than gunk-cleaning.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 3:37 PM on June 18, 2007

Is there any space at all between any of the six teeth? I have a bottom retainer on my front teeth, and I've never used a floss threader. I poke one end of the floss through two of my teeth, like threading a needle.

Once the floss is between the teeth, I maneuver it around to the rest of those teeth, keeping the floss between the retainer and my teeth. So thread once, floss all the teeth. It hardly takes longer than if I didn't have a retainer.

Do you still have your wisdom teeth? My dentist once told me that since my wisdom teeth were removed, my teeth should be fine if I ever break the retainer and just decide to remove it rather than get it re-glued.
posted by peep at 3:38 PM on June 18, 2007

I had a permanent retainer stuck to my six front bottom teeth for more than 10 years. I never really enjoyed having it, especially since flossing was such a pain. One day I asked my new dentist if she could take it out. Without much hesitation she said sure, and the pulled it out right then and there with a pretty fearsome set of pliers. This was three years ago; my teeth haven't moved since.

I never wore my top removable retainer, and those teeth never moved, which probably was a good sign for what my bottom ones would do once they were set free. I may be lucky, though.
posted by marionnette en chaussette at 3:45 PM on June 18, 2007

By the way, I heart my electric flosser. It does a great job around the gums - not so good for stuff stuck between your teeth further up, but I think they would definitely be good for gum health.
posted by Addlepated at 3:49 PM on June 18, 2007

On the other side of the anecdotes, I had my permanent retainer removed about four years ago, and my teeth have shifted a lot since then.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 3:50 PM on June 18, 2007

I have a permanent bridge myself, and hate floss threaders.

I found single use floss with stiff ends that will slide under my bridge without a threader, I imagine it will work the same way with a retainer.
posted by MarcieAlana at 3:56 PM on June 18, 2007

I had a permanent retainer across my front bottom teeth that came partially un-glued a couple of years ago. I took it out myself with no ill effects to this point (that I've noticed anyway).
posted by jtfowl0 at 3:59 PM on June 18, 2007

I have a permanent retainer. They'll take it from me when they pry it out of my cold, dead gums. Seriously. I wish they had put a permanent one in on my top teeth too, instead of just the bottoms, because my top teeth are horribly fucked up because I couldn't remember to wear the retainer as a teen (to the point where now they'll never be straight again, unless I go for adult braces, and that is just not happening) while my bottom ones are Hollywood-perfect, alignment-wise.

If I were you, I'd keep it in, try to floss as often as you can with the threaders, get yourself a Sonicare or other good electric toothbrush, and if your dentist recommends them and you think they help, maybe one of those hydraulic water-flosser thingies. And then I'd schedule cleanings with more frequency than usual. Maybe every 4 months instead of every 6, or something like that. Might have to pay out of pocket for one of them, but it'll be cheaper than the co-pays on a root canal down the road. Basically, if you can't get yourself to floss them, pay a professional to do it, at whatever frequency is required to keep them from falling out of your head.

Anyway, that's what I'm trying to do for mine. If I could go back in time to when I was 15 and they took my braces off, I'd hold a gun to my orthodontist's head and make her put in permanent retainers on both the top and bottom of my mouth. Yeah, flossing them sucks, but it's nothing like watching thousands of dollars of orthodontics work go to waste because your teeth move inexorably back to where they used to be at Day 0.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:07 PM on June 18, 2007

I had a permanent retainer removed from my bottom teeth. Never wore a removable retainer. Yes, my teeth have shifted, but not a LOT. I would have it removed and start flossing.
posted by clh at 4:07 PM on June 18, 2007

@flibbertigibbet - I am not worried about compliance. I take medication every night, so I'm not worried about forgetting to put it in. I am, however, concerned that the time and energy invested in cleaning, loss, and breakage will outweigh the time and energy invested in using the goddamn floss threaders.

@peep - Yes, I've had my wisdom teeth removed. I can't imagine using your technique though. My retainer is pretty close to the gum line and it's bonded on all six teeth.

@Addlepated - Tell me more about fancy devices! /pepsibluefilter
posted by crazycanuck at 4:07 PM on June 18, 2007

I had my permanent bottom retainer taken out, teeth did shift, but I dont have to deal with that thing any more!
posted by outsider at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2007

Seems like lots of us (me included) have permanent retainers on bottom teeth but not top. Can anyone explain what makes bottom teeth more likely to move after adolescence than top teeth? Seems like that would go a long way toward answering this question.
posted by SuperNova at 4:11 PM on June 18, 2007

Also anecdotal: I had a "permanent" retainer across my lower front teeth for about ten years. Then I saw a new dentist, who was surprised that I still had it in, and he yanked it right out (with my permission, of course). A year or two later, I moved, and my new new dentist was horrified that the previous guy had removed it, and gave me all kinds of dire warnings about shifting teeth, etc. As it happens, my teeth haven't budged, and I really like being able to easily floss. But if my teeth had shifted a lot, I would have been perturbed, and maybe would have wanted a new retainer.
posted by Forktine at 4:11 PM on June 18, 2007

I too have a permanent retainer on my bottom teeth (attached to only two teeth), it has now been about 22 years. I have asked every dentist if they will remove it, and they all say the same thing, "Keep it in, your teeth will move". So I keep it in with the thought of my parents finding out. I don't want them to know they spent thousands of dollars on my teeth just for me to only screw everything up now. I say leave it in. And learn to floss.
posted by mrbob at 4:25 PM on June 18, 2007

I think my flosser thingie device is pretty much like this one. It has gentle vibrating action. You just pop on a disposable head whenever you want to go to town. This answer seems rife with innuendo, and I apologize for that.
posted by Addlepated at 4:33 PM on June 18, 2007

Also another anecdote. I also had one for about 8 years, and got it removed so I could eat apples and corn and so that I could floss. It also used to really irritate my tongue a lot. My teeth haven't moved, but they are still really sensitive when I floss in between them.
I would say take it out.
posted by greta simone at 4:40 PM on June 18, 2007

I've had a bar bonded to my lower canines for about six years. When it came unstuck two years ago during a contact sport, I had a new one attached.

I "floss" with a Waterpik, which seems to work pretty well. It's also good for keeping the holes from my wisdom teeth clean; I had them pulled a month ago.
posted by wtdoor at 4:54 PM on June 18, 2007

I've always used a removable retainer, and I'm pretty good about it precisely because I can detect a difference. When I don't wear it, even for a few days, I can start to feel my teeth move and the retainer gets a lot harder to put in. But I'm in my early 20s, so the motion is probably a lot less if you're older.
posted by Lady Li at 5:06 PM on June 18, 2007

I had a permanent retainer on my lowers put in in 1994 when I was 18. 10 years later the bar broke and I went to see an orthodontist. According to him, that is old school. He took it out for me and fitted me for an invisalign that I wear at night. Lately, I've been a big slacker on that and my lowers have slightly shifted but not OMG STONEHENGE IN UR MOUTH shifted.
posted by pieoverdone at 5:29 PM on June 18, 2007

Been wearing a removable retainer every night for the past couple of years. I must do this for eternity. No big deal really. Gives me incentive to brush every night without exception. Also would prevent my teeth from grinding, if they do that at all (who knows?), which would be just a bonus. (It's plastic like a boxer might wear, but thin) You're asleep when it's in, so who cares?
posted by umlaut at 5:40 PM on June 18, 2007

My boyfriend's "permanent" retainer detached itself (and was swallowed) while eating a granola bar. Had to get x-rays done to make sure nothing was punctured by the metal on its way down. No word yet on any teeth shifting.
posted by betafilter at 5:41 PM on June 18, 2007

Seconding the single-use stiff-end floss. I have both top and bottom permanent retainers, and those are the only things that get me to floss. I can't stand the damn threaders, but these are easy to use and fine.
posted by messylissa at 5:57 PM on June 18, 2007

I had my permanent retainer removed for the same reason (a dentist told me I was developing gingivitis, so I persuaded him to remove it) and my teeth have shifted a bit. I wasn't offered a replacement retainer. It's not noticeable to anyone but me and dentists, but it bothers me because I spent SO MUCH time getting my damn teeth straight. Also, there are remnants of dental cement on my teeth that the dentist didn't burr off and all other dentists refuse to mess with. My advice, if you think you would be at all bothered by your teeth shifting, buy a sonic toothbrush and a water pik and keep the retainer in.
posted by blueskiesinside at 6:12 PM on June 18, 2007

Stiff-end floss advocates - what kind of floss do you use? I've tried one kind before and hated it. The kind I used was stiff at one end, followed by a spongy bit that proceeded to aggravate me as much as the goddamn floss threaders do.
posted by crazycanuck at 6:19 PM on June 18, 2007

Wearing dental dohickies at night isn't a big deal for me. I had a night guard for years. Ironically, It farked up my teeth and now I have invisaligns to unfark them.

You can get used to it. Having your teeth shift is a lot better than having them rot out. Well, in my opinion anyway.
posted by chairface at 6:20 PM on June 18, 2007

oh, yeah, my method definitely doesn't work for those with the retainer bonded to all the teeth. Mine is just bonded to two.
posted by peep at 6:29 PM on June 18, 2007

stiff at one end, followed by a spongy bit

Probably the Oral-B Superfloss I was going to recommend?

For what an anecdote's worth: I had wires glued (cemented, I suppose) to my top and bottom front four +17 years ago (early adolescence). Then: "When do I get them off?" Orthodontist: "Come see me when you get your PhD."

Sometime between then and now, he said current practice was leaning towards leaving them put for good if they weren't a bother.

For what anecdotes are worth: the bottom one fell off ten years ago. Teeth are still quite straight. I had my wisdom teeth taken out years ago.

Get a Sonicare and a Water Pik; what they cost will be saved in dental bills. I've never had a 'bad' check-up.
posted by kmennie at 7:15 PM on June 18, 2007

I've still got mine, have had it for . . God, 17 years now. Sheesh. My dentist asks me about it but hasn't ever shown a lot of interest in removing it. He's actually more interested in why I am not afraid of my wisdom teeth coming in (haven't, by the way). Basically, you can be annoyed by a complex flossing routine, or you can (maybe) be annoyed by your teeth returning to their natural state. I don't think flossing is annoying enough even with the thing to take the chance on my teeth moving, but that's me.
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:33 PM on June 18, 2007

Another reason to keep the retainer, and just floss or water pik around it: I was mountain biking and did a face plant. Actually, it wasn't a plant but rather a mossy rock. My mouth did most of the landing, enough to extrude my lip through the pace between my teeth. However, that lower retainer saved my teeth.
posted by notsnot at 7:37 PM on June 18, 2007

I have the permanent wire on my bottom teeth - I would love to know why they can't put in one on top too! I wear an invisalign-style one on my top teeth once a week or so. It's so much better than the old-school plastic-and-wire variety (although you can't get super-cool colors and decals).
posted by radioamy at 7:39 PM on June 18, 2007

No idea if this would work for you but I really hate using dental floss. The hygenist suggested Stim-u-dent
which are sort of like wooden toothpicks - you slide them in between the teeth and gums. It doesn't get the sides of the teeth as well as flossing but it is great for the gums and I find it much more pleasant to use.
posted by metahawk at 8:01 PM on June 18, 2007

Anecdotal: I had braces, then a temporary retainer. I didn't wear the temporary retainer. My teeth shifted. I coulda grown up with perfectly normal teeth, but now two of them are slightly recessed from the toothline, since they shifted due to the retainer. A very dumbass move on my part.

Personally, given your situation, I'd stick with the permanent retainer. You're going to lapse if you've got the temporary retainer, given the span of 50 years you're going to deal with ... and who knows where dental technology will go in the time to come? THe permanent retainer will prevent it from shifting in the meantime.
posted by WCityMike at 9:26 PM on June 18, 2007

I have permanents on top and bottom. I was supposed to wear a removable retainer at night for two years after the braces came off but I couldn't do it. Now (three years later) when I try to put in my removable retainer, it hurts to the point that I need to remove it immediately. I can't imagine how bad my teeth would be if I ever took out the permanent retainers.
posted by sgrass at 11:01 PM on June 18, 2007

I had mine for about 6 years. I asked to have it removed. No problems. My teeth haven't moved and that was about 15 years ago.
posted by nimsey lou at 12:02 AM on June 19, 2007

Stiff-end floss advocates - what kind of floss do you use?

Crest Glide Threader Dental Floss. They come in individually wrapped packets, which I think is nice. They're pretty much standard floss with a little extra wax on one end so you can push it through the gums.
posted by messylissa at 1:26 AM on June 19, 2007

Please address this issue with your dentist*. Admit that you aren't floosing as directed. You might be able to swing getting your teeth professionally cleaned more often and be able to keep the retainer. You may, in fact, no longer need the retainer. You may just need to start flossing.

They know your teeth, we do not. Even a DMD or a DDS cannot give you appropriate tips without looking at your radiographic films, and preferably looking into your mouth.

*I am not a dentist. I used to manage dental offices. Good day.
posted by bilabial at 3:20 AM on June 19, 2007

OK, I've reviewed these results and the consensus definitely leans towards removal. I will probably schedule the appointment tomorrow. Thanks

bilabial: I went to the dentist, they poked and prodded and charted and x-rayed. I told them all about my bad flossing. They said I still needed a retainer, and whether it was temporary or permanent was my choice. I definitely need to start flossing. They will have me on the 4 month recall after the gunk cleaning as part of their gunk cleaning protocol. The recall is on my insurance company's dime. I don't know how long I get special treatment for, though.
posted by crazycanuck at 3:45 PM on June 19, 2007