Help me learn Latin while not abandoning my family
June 7, 2007 5:28 AM Subscribe
I'm taking an intensive language course (6-hours-per-day, 5-days-per-week in the classroom and additional study is expected) and want to rock it. But I also want to have a life. What are your best tricks for intensive language acquisition or balancing such intensive study with life?
The course is in Latin, so there's no chance I'll be able to immerse myself in, say, subtitled films. We're starting at Latin 101 and, five weeks later, will finish all the grammar and begin translation (we're doing either Ovid, or Virgil, or maybe Cicero?; I'm not sure which). And I'm starting from nil: while I am strong in other Romance languages (varying degrees of competency in Spanish, French, and Portuguese, though it's been over a decade since I've actually done any study in a language) this will be my first real exposure to the pure stuff.
I am hoping to hear from others who have taken similar intensive courses, and to get your what-I-wish-I'd-known-before-I-started advice, but I'm willing to hear from anyone who'd had success learning a new language.
My other big concern is balancing my family life with such intensive study time. I have a spouse and I have delightful children and I want to enjoy them as much as possible, too. Balance is always tough, but I somehow fear that this intensive study of a new language might be especially so. I would love to be proven wrong on this one. My family has been especially patient during my other graduate coursework, and I was kinda hoping to have a bit of a break. At least this term I won't have to write any big ole papers, right? Right?
So: language acquisition tips? family balance during intensive summer study tips? Hit me.
The course is in Latin, so there's no chance I'll be able to immerse myself in, say, subtitled films. We're starting at Latin 101 and, five weeks later, will finish all the grammar and begin translation (we're doing either Ovid, or Virgil, or maybe Cicero?; I'm not sure which). And I'm starting from nil: while I am strong in other Romance languages (varying degrees of competency in Spanish, French, and Portuguese, though it's been over a decade since I've actually done any study in a language) this will be my first real exposure to the pure stuff.
I am hoping to hear from others who have taken similar intensive courses, and to get your what-I-wish-I'd-known-before-I-started advice, but I'm willing to hear from anyone who'd had success learning a new language.
My other big concern is balancing my family life with such intensive study time. I have a spouse and I have delightful children and I want to enjoy them as much as possible, too. Balance is always tough, but I somehow fear that this intensive study of a new language might be especially so. I would love to be proven wrong on this one. My family has been especially patient during my other graduate coursework, and I was kinda hoping to have a bit of a break. At least this term I won't have to write any big ole papers, right? Right?
So: language acquisition tips? family balance during intensive summer study tips? Hit me.
The course is in Latin, so there's no chance I'll be able to immerse myself in, say, subtitled films.
isn't there that latin radio station in finland? listen to that! You can immerse yourself! :D
posted by slater at 5:43 AM on June 7, 2007
isn't there that latin radio station in finland? listen to that! You can immerse yourself! :D
posted by slater at 5:43 AM on June 7, 2007
Here ya go. It's only the news in latin, not the entire programming, tho.
posted by slater at 5:44 AM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by slater at 5:44 AM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't worry too much. Six hours a day + three hours of extra studying leaves you plenty of time to hang out with the spouse and lovely children. Learning a new language immersion-style is exhausting and I don't think you'll profit significantly from more than three ex-classroom study hours. Although maybe consider a little easy Latin reading in the evenings on the couch with the spouse; there is some enjoyably vulgar stuff in Catullus and Lucretius that you might enjoy translating for her.
posted by bluenausea at 6:03 AM on June 7, 2007
posted by bluenausea at 6:03 AM on June 7, 2007
I did an intensive language course last summer. We did four hours a day, and I usually put in between 2-6 additional hours (but I was away from home, in a dorm, and miserable, so that was more escape than necessity). If you do your homework and then add a little daily vocab/rule review (or if that is your homework, try a little composition no matter how little you know), you should probably be able to get away with no more than 2 additional hours a day. To keep your family life in balance, I would schedule some non-negotiable family time every day, and two large (6-8 hours) chunks on the weekends when you can do both recreational and helpful things. I managed to research and write a paper for an unrelated course during my course with a schedule a bit like that; it would have been much less stressful to be spending that time with family :)
For memorizing vocab, I found Flashcard exchange helpful. You can put in your own or use ones that are already there. There is a lot of Latin already there.
In general, the intensity of the course makes it easier to memorize vocab and pick up on rules, so you might actually find that you spend less outside-the-classroom time working on it than you would if you were spreading it out over a year. Most of the work does get done in the class, and outside time is more a matter of sealing it in than learning it.
posted by carmen at 6:09 AM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]
For memorizing vocab, I found Flashcard exchange helpful. You can put in your own or use ones that are already there. There is a lot of Latin already there.
In general, the intensity of the course makes it easier to memorize vocab and pick up on rules, so you might actually find that you spend less outside-the-classroom time working on it than you would if you were spreading it out over a year. Most of the work does get done in the class, and outside time is more a matter of sealing it in than learning it.
posted by carmen at 6:09 AM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]
Latin grammar is actually quite simple, which is why a crash course is perfect -- it gets you right to the translating right away.
When I took Latin, I found it invaluable to have my formal English grammar down pat. Really down pat, as in, being able to explain the role of any given tense, part of speech, participle, construction, mood, voice, etc. You don't need to know what the pluperfect tense is to tell a story in English, but you'll need to be able to identify different types of past tense to correctly translate your Latin.
posted by desuetude at 6:44 AM on June 7, 2007
When I took Latin, I found it invaluable to have my formal English grammar down pat. Really down pat, as in, being able to explain the role of any given tense, part of speech, participle, construction, mood, voice, etc. You don't need to know what the pluperfect tense is to tell a story in English, but you'll need to be able to identify different types of past tense to correctly translate your Latin.
posted by desuetude at 6:44 AM on June 7, 2007
If I look back on my 5 years of studying that ancient language back in school in order to get my qualification in Latin - called Latinum here in Germany - I come to the following conclusions which could perhaps help you
First and foremost: All this new fashionable folderol simply will not work out for learning Latin. You will have to sweat blood and water.
1.) It is absolutely mandatory to force-feed your brain to acquire a basic vocabulary (2000 - 3000 words), preferably by means of the Leitner system. This really helps a lot and reduces enormously the time needed to learn new words. I wish I'd known that before.
2.) After that you should learn the grammar by heart. Only if you can recall all the basic vocabulary and grammar blindfolded (VERY important), you will have laid the necessary foundation to proceed.
3.) Now you should learn to use your dictionary (assuming that your are allowed to use one during the exams) efficiently, and by that I mean that you must be able to look up an unknown word as fast as possible. Afterwards the only thing you still need to do is to pay particular attention to grammatical constructions, rhetorical figures and idioms that emerge again and again or are utilized especially often by a specific author. From my point of view this is the most difficult part.
4.) Do not search the Internet for translations!!! Never ever!!! Otherwise you will suck at the exams.
Concerning the balancing of your family life with your study time, the only advise that comes to my mind is that you should try to implement spaced repition as best as possible. This really enables one to save a huge amount of time, because learning Latin is just about memorization!!!
posted by pu9iad at 6:57 AM on June 7, 2007 [3 favorites]
First and foremost: All this new fashionable folderol simply will not work out for learning Latin. You will have to sweat blood and water.
1.) It is absolutely mandatory to force-feed your brain to acquire a basic vocabulary (2000 - 3000 words), preferably by means of the Leitner system. This really helps a lot and reduces enormously the time needed to learn new words. I wish I'd known that before.
2.) After that you should learn the grammar by heart. Only if you can recall all the basic vocabulary and grammar blindfolded (VERY important), you will have laid the necessary foundation to proceed.
3.) Now you should learn to use your dictionary (assuming that your are allowed to use one during the exams) efficiently, and by that I mean that you must be able to look up an unknown word as fast as possible. Afterwards the only thing you still need to do is to pay particular attention to grammatical constructions, rhetorical figures and idioms that emerge again and again or are utilized especially often by a specific author. From my point of view this is the most difficult part.
4.) Do not search the Internet for translations!!! Never ever!!! Otherwise you will suck at the exams.
Concerning the balancing of your family life with your study time, the only advise that comes to my mind is that you should try to implement spaced repition as best as possible. This really enables one to save a huge amount of time, because learning Latin is just about memorization!!!
posted by pu9iad at 6:57 AM on June 7, 2007 [3 favorites]
I've done a lot of intensive language courses and your "free time" really depends on how much homework is due every day, and more importantly, how often the instructor gives you pop vocabulary quizzes.
I'd say that I spent usually the entire afternoon studying for language courses than ran from 8am-1pm. And if I had a test, I usually would spend the whole evening too.
I'd let your family know that you're going to be busy this summer, nonetheless.
posted by k8t at 7:34 AM on June 7, 2007
I'd say that I spent usually the entire afternoon studying for language courses than ran from 8am-1pm. And if I had a test, I usually would spend the whole evening too.
I'd let your family know that you're going to be busy this summer, nonetheless.
posted by k8t at 7:34 AM on June 7, 2007
Are there churches in your area that do Latin Mass? When I lived in Italy and just wanted to practice my pronunciation, I'd go to evening Mass in Italian (and I'm not Catholic). They generally pass out a printed sheet with the words on it, which indicates what the priest says and what the congregation says, so I could follow along. It was a great way to be able to speak out loud without the pressure of having to communicate, and to be able to hear other people speaking with correct pronunciation while being able to follow along with the printed word.
I know that pronunciation is less of an issue with Latin, but just following along with the text in a non-academic setting might be good for you. (And at the Latin Masses I've been to in the States, they often include English translations on that printed sheet.)
posted by occhiblu at 9:34 AM on June 7, 2007
I know that pronunciation is less of an issue with Latin, but just following along with the text in a non-academic setting might be good for you. (And at the Latin Masses I've been to in the States, they often include English translations on that printed sheet.)
posted by occhiblu at 9:34 AM on June 7, 2007
Something else that helped me was watching English-language tv or movies with Italian subtitles. It was nice to be able to hear common idioms or phrases, and literally see how Italian would express the same concept.
It looks like there are at least some DVDs that offer a Latin subtitle option. That might also be a good way to combine family time with study time, if you can find a movie that your other family members want to watch.
posted by occhiblu at 9:40 AM on June 7, 2007
It looks like there are at least some DVDs that offer a Latin subtitle option. That might also be a good way to combine family time with study time, if you can find a movie that your other family members want to watch.
posted by occhiblu at 9:40 AM on June 7, 2007
Read Cattus Petasatus. If your kids are the right age, read it to them. The only fun thing from three years of high school Latin.
Oh, btw, the pronunciation of "church Latin" and "school Latin" is entirely different, so going to, e.g., a Latin mass won't help with that...but the school Latin pronunciation is very straightforward anyway, so you shouldn't need help (with pronunciation).
posted by anaelith at 9:58 AM on June 7, 2007
Oh, btw, the pronunciation of "church Latin" and "school Latin" is entirely different, so going to, e.g., a Latin mass won't help with that...but the school Latin pronunciation is very straightforward anyway, so you shouldn't need help (with pronunciation).
posted by anaelith at 9:58 AM on June 7, 2007
Right, sorry, I wasn't clear -- Latin Mass might help with the reading, I meant, because of the printed sheets. It would be a way to see "Latin in Action!" outside the classroom. As it were.
posted by occhiblu at 10:02 AM on June 7, 2007
posted by occhiblu at 10:02 AM on June 7, 2007
The Latin Lesson.
No seriously, I was just going to suggest making flashcards as you go along. 3x5 cards are good, and fairly cheap when purchased in packages of 500, but they do take up some space once you've learned a few thousand words. You can buy/make "half sized" ones, but of course that either costs more or takes up more of your time. Making flashcards yourself rather than buying them helps reinforce vocab as you write them out, and can help you catch words the instructor tosses out in passing. If you have a reasonable sized stack, you can get in a few words in line at the coffee bar, or during a TV commercial, or wherever. Be glad it isn't Japanese. I actually didn't need flashcards with Latin or French, but Japanese I couldn't learn without them. Guess I'm not a kid anymore....
posted by ilsa at 11:00 AM on June 7, 2007
No seriously, I was just going to suggest making flashcards as you go along. 3x5 cards are good, and fairly cheap when purchased in packages of 500, but they do take up some space once you've learned a few thousand words. You can buy/make "half sized" ones, but of course that either costs more or takes up more of your time. Making flashcards yourself rather than buying them helps reinforce vocab as you write them out, and can help you catch words the instructor tosses out in passing. If you have a reasonable sized stack, you can get in a few words in line at the coffee bar, or during a TV commercial, or wherever. Be glad it isn't Japanese. I actually didn't need flashcards with Latin or French, but Japanese I couldn't learn without them. Guess I'm not a kid anymore....
posted by ilsa at 11:00 AM on June 7, 2007
Since you need a foundation to work from, a certain amount of rote memorization of static words is unavoidable -- just don't get carried away. You may end up with a dazzling vocabulary of individual words, but you'll be lost trying to generate (or decode) cohesive sentences that use those same words.
Ravin' Dave's Language Tip #486:
In inflected languages, it's better to learn: "three green elk" than "three", "green" and "elk".
posted by RavinDave at 2:13 PM on June 7, 2007
Ravin' Dave's Language Tip #486:
In inflected languages, it's better to learn: "three green elk" than "three", "green" and "elk".
posted by RavinDave at 2:13 PM on June 7, 2007
Unfortunately, in Latin "three green elk" can take 5-7 different forms depending whether they are the subject, direct object, indirect object, the owners of another noun in the sentence, being directly addressed, etc.. So while that works great for languages where nouns don't conjugate (actually, decline), it probably won't work for Latin. Just be glad that adjectives agree with the noun they modify instead of the verb tense.
However, you might see if your local library has "How to learn any language" by Barry Farber. Not worth buying unless this is your first step towards becoming massively multilingual.
posted by ilsa at 3:50 PM on June 7, 2007
However, you might see if your local library has "How to learn any language" by Barry Farber. Not worth buying unless this is your first step towards becoming massively multilingual.
posted by ilsa at 3:50 PM on June 7, 2007
Actually, it's exactly the other way around, ilsa. As I noted, it's an effective technique for inflected languages. And notice, I said "three green elk" ... not "of three green elk" or "on three green elk" or "O, three green elk!" (these would be perfectly good ones to learn too -- they just weren't the example I gave).
The underlying point is that by learning static individual words, you are not gaining much linguistic knowledge of how those words are actually used in context. It's why Pimsleur and FSI have a higher success rate than VocabuLearn.
posted by RavinDave at 1:40 AM on June 8, 2007
The underlying point is that by learning static individual words, you are not gaining much linguistic knowledge of how those words are actually used in context. It's why Pimsleur and FSI have a higher success rate than VocabuLearn.
posted by RavinDave at 1:40 AM on June 8, 2007
The underlying point is that by learning static individual words, you are not gaining much linguistic knowledge of how those words are actually used in context. It's why Pimsleur and FSI have a higher success rate than VocabuLearn.
Sure, for spoken languages where the primary goal is verbal communication.
Conjugated/inflected forms are quite standard in Latin, much more so than in romance languages, so learning base vocab by rote can save make translation go a lot more smoothly than if you had to look up every other word in the dictionary. (The contextual variation of the words is learned via translation of great authors.)
posted by desuetude at 6:35 AM on June 8, 2007
Sure, for spoken languages where the primary goal is verbal communication.
Conjugated/inflected forms are quite standard in Latin, much more so than in romance languages, so learning base vocab by rote can save make translation go a lot more smoothly than if you had to look up every other word in the dictionary. (The contextual variation of the words is learned via translation of great authors.)
posted by desuetude at 6:35 AM on June 8, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by markesh at 5:42 AM on June 7, 2007