20D or 30D? You tell me!

June 5, 2007 6:05 PM

Help me choose which Canon DSLR to buy and where to buy it.

I'm going to buy a digital SLR and it is currently a toss up between the Canon 30D and the 20D. A few years ago, I owned the 10D and loved the rugged body but am not too sure about the ruggedness of the 20D or 30D.

My other problem is where to buy it from. I'm not opposed to buying refurbished from a site like refurbdeport.com but I am a little afraid of buying a "brand new" 30D for $499 from a site like expresscameras.com. If you think I'm better off with another camera, I welcome the input; any/all advice is nice. Thanks.

posted by hammerthyme to media & arts (16 comments total)

I suppose that if you already have the Canon system with lenses and accessories, then by all means stick with Canon. Heck, you even like the ergonomics.

First off, don't buy from the too-good-to-be-true places like expresscameras.com. They're mostly scams. Buying refurb is fine, but beware that refurbished models often come with shorter warranties.

Though I currently shoot with a Nikon dSLR, the one time that I shot with a 20D, I loved the experience. I am pretty sure it is just as sturdy as the 10D, as both have the magnesium-alloy body, IIRC, and are worlds better in terms of ruggedness as the Digital Rebel series.

From what I've heard and read, the 30D isn't a huge step up from the 20D. According to DCRP's review, the main differences include:

* 2.5" LCD display (up from 1.8" on the 20D)
* New and improved shutter will last for 100,000 cycles
* Improved camera performance: larger buffer, faster startup and "wake from sleep" recovery times
* New spot metering option
* ISO can now be adjusted in 1/3-step increments
* Same Picture Styles and automatic noise reduction feature as on the EOS-5D
* Print/Share button added to back of camera
* Improved folder management system

I guess it's up to you to decide whether the nominal improvements are worth the extra cost. The two biggest draws for the 30D, in my book, would be the larger LCD and spot-metering.

Wherever you choose to buy it from, be sure to check out some reviews for the store beforehand. Review their return policies and watch out for grey-market items.
posted by roomwithaview at 6:53 PM on June 5, 2007

I second reseller ratings: Froogle has general seller ratings, and this site helped me avoid some pretty shady online deals: http://www.resellerratings.com/

Check some of the more reputable places for used/refurbed stuff first: b and h, adorama, keh...
posted by stratastar at 7:08 PM on June 5, 2007

Canon usually has rebates in the spring and fall. The spring rebate is currently on, but is only valid for lenses. It might be a good idea to wait for the fall rebate to purchase your dSLR. The spring rebates are additive (if you buy 2+ items, you get a bigger rebate on BOTH).
That said, i bought my 5D and lenses from Amazon, taking advantage of the rebates last fall. Could not have had a more pleasant experience.
posted by zergot at 8:09 PM on June 5, 2007

If a site shows a price that's significantly lower than Adorama or B&H on identical equipment, be afraid ... be very afraid.

For reasons I don't pretend to understand, there's a lot of shadiness in digital camera retailing. Particularly out of New York City (again, I don't know why NYC, but it seems to be true), although there are probably similar West Coast operations.

Lots of them seem to follow the same MO: they lure you in with some very low price on a camera, and then refuse to sell it to you until they can "confirm" the sale via phone. That's when they upsell you on high-profit addons. Extended warranties, lens packages, anything. And if you refuse, your order can be delayed or inexplicably canceled, or changed to a different item entirely (and you can imagine what returning something to a place like that is like). The same people tend to own multiple domain names an virtual storefronts, and sometimes give addresses that make you think they have legit B&M sides, but usually they're just unmarked doors in an alley somewhere.

Oh, and they fudge their ratings on most of the feedback sites pretty blatantly, too -- either by just doing it correctly with nullo accounts, or by basically bribing people for good feedback.

Anyway, Googling "expresscameras" makes me believe this is exactly the sort of place they are. Here's one story, but there are more out there if you look.

Broadway Photo is another similar deal (of which I have had the misfortune of dealing), although I've heard that occasionally if you play hardball with them, you can get your gear. Still, unless you have nowhere else to turn at any price, I'd stay away.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:17 PM on June 5, 2007

The 30D is due for replacement any month now with a new model, which everyone is logically assuming will be called the 40D. This means you can probably look forward to great deals on the 30D relatively soon if you can hold off on buying. If you can't, I'd go for the 30D over the 20D, as it has spot metering. (I have a 20D and wish I'd held out for the 30D, but having a 20D, I couldn't justify spending more to upgrade so soon.)
posted by kindall at 8:36 PM on June 5, 2007

I have bought many things from Abe's of Maine. I have returned things too with no problem. I have a ten dollar off coupon too if you want it email me.
posted by lee at 9:22 PM on June 5, 2007

Be wary of "bargains." Buy from B&H or Adorama and be safe.

I'd also suggest getting your hands on the camera before you buy - even if you don't buy from the place you try it out at. I've got a pair of 10D's, and the 20D felt tiny to me when I used it - particularly without the grip. If you're used to and like a bigger body, you're going to have to adjust with the 20 or 30.
posted by blaneyphoto at 9:33 PM on June 5, 2007

buy a 30D from b&h, not from a sketchy seller who gives you twenty bucks off. here's the only review you will ever have to read on this camera, from a site you can trust big time. (it should be noted that in the first picture he attached the canon 85mm f/1.2 L prime, a monster of a lens I worked with recently. this makes the body look smaller than it is. the 30D is actually roughly the size of the 10D, albeit lighter.)

bodies come and go. there will always be the next best thing right around the corner (and there are those pesky rumors about the 40D but who knows...) but it's much more important for the quality of images to get yourself some really good glass with it.

I have a 20D and am very happy with it - which is something I say as a person who has professionally worked with the 1D, 1DS MarkII, the 5d, the 30D, the 10D and the Phase One P25 system.
posted by krautland at 10:15 PM on June 5, 2007

IMO, don't buy either the 20d or 30d. Wait for the "40d" (or whatever they call it). The new features are in the 400d, most notably, the self-cleanning CCD. You want that feature, but on the more robust body of the 10 series.

Consider the extended warranty. We got it on the 10d, and the camera is currently in the shop being repaired, on that warranty (3 years after purchase), and it wasn't just the expected worn-out shutter. A board went bad. (Not saying the extended warranty would cover the shutter, I don't know about that). Oh, and we bought from Adarama (good experience).
posted by Goofyy at 2:02 AM on June 6, 2007

I have a 20D and a 5D and love them both; the 20D is plenty rugged for me (and much more rugged than the Digital Rebels). I bought both from B&H and recommend them; check out the reseller ratings on the stores that are lower priced and you will find they have all sorts of problems; they charge a lot for shipping and try to sell you all sorts of expensive add-ons; if you don't buy the stuff they try to sell you, then the gray-market camera you are ordering is out of stock and so on. As far as waiting, there will always be a better camera just around the corner, but that doesn't mean the 30d will be any less of a camera. The 30D sounds great, but I do not regret going ahead and getting the 20D before the 30D came out. Now, however, I would be inclined to go ahead and get the 30D just because it is the most recent model in that line and has some incremental, but significant, improvements.
posted by TedW at 3:53 AM on June 6, 2007

Kadin2048's story happened exactly as described with an ex-boss and a too-good-to-be-true camera price. Be afraid.
posted by signal at 8:12 AM on June 6, 2007

Basically, as some others have already said, the 30D isn't really a big step up from the 20D. The large LCD is nice if you're reviewing images as you go, though spot metering is the sort of thing that's really only useful if you need it. I bought a 30D a few months ago and have no regrets, though I would probably be just as happy with a 20D.

As far as rumors surrounding the 40D (or whatever the next in the line is called), the biggest thing seems to be the addition of the anti-dust stuff already in the XTi, and probably a megapixel bump too.

I don't think it's worth holding out for a 40D; it hasn't even been announced yet (people expect August/September, I think) and with the months you'll likely be waiting to actually get one, you could be without a camera through the holidays. Unless you've heard of some feature in the 40D you wouldn't be able to live without (and have reasonable confidence it'll actually be there) then I recommend getting a 20D or 30D now.

I would definitely stay away from any store that offers a "too good to be true" price. B&H and Adorama usually have the same price, and it's what you'll pay at any other reputable place too.
posted by Godbert at 8:32 AM on June 6, 2007

Just out of curiosity, for whom is the Rebel line not "rugged" enough, and in what way? What are you afraid will break, and what are you doing with it that you're afraid it will break?
posted by Caviar at 2:59 PM on June 6, 2007

"Just out of curiosity, for whom is the Rebel line not "rugged" enough, and in what way?"

Its not rugged enough for me, anyway.

The Rebels are largely plastic and would never stand up to the daily use and abuse that many professionals put their equipment through. I couldn't imagine working with them, even though the images would be fine - they just simply wouldn't survive very long - and then they're also not as weather sealed either, so even without the possibility of rough handling getting caught in a downpour with a couple Rebels would probably be bad news.
posted by blaneyphoto at 4:37 PM on June 8, 2007

Well, none of the Canon bodies are weather-sealed until you get up to the actual "Pro" line - the 1D series. I can't imagine getting stuck in a downpour with a couple of 30Ds would be the bright part of your day either.

Sure, for professional use, maybe you need a 20D or 30D (or <drool>1D Mark III</drool>). This didn't sound like a professional question, and I think most people have fooled themselves into thinking they need a more expensive body than they do. I still don't understand what would break on a Rebel during normal use for most people. The 30D is almost twice as expensive at the XTi. Non-professionals are probably better off saving their money, and buying a second Rebel if the first one happens to break. If it doesn't break in the first year, you're ahead $600, and you can sell it and use the extra money to buy whatever's coming down the pipe next. Digital bodies are just in too much flux to justify spending more than you absolutely need to, and whatever's released in 12-18 months will be light years ahead of what's available now.
posted by Caviar at 6:59 PM on June 10, 2007

I just answered the question as asked - "for whom..." and the answer is that for most professionals, the Rebel would not be rugged enough.

I use a mix of 10D, 5D and 1 series bodies and feel much more confident about their weather resistance than the Rebels I've handled. The 5's and 1's are far better than the 10's, but I've soaked those 10s pretty well, so I'm rarely worried about any of them in that respect. But again, the Rebel just wouldn't take the day to day abuse. You can't often take the time to baby your gear when you're covering an event, shooting a wedding, or otherwise on the move.

But for the average user, sure they're just fine. They're not likely to put the wear on their gear that we do.
posted by blaneyphoto at 8:16 PM on June 10, 2007