Comments on: Triumph for the geeky girl?

Question: Triumph for the geeky girl?

granted — Mon, 28 May 2007 16:58:49 -0800

Hello! I am looking for examples of movies (or pop culture in general) in which the geeky, less-attractive girl gets a guy who (she thinks) is totally out of her league.

I recently had a discussion with a friend about how this happens in movies far less than the other way round - i.e., that the geeky or loserish guy gets the hot girl he's totally in love with. Now we are trying to amass a collection. So far, the only ones we can think of are Dirty Dancing and My So-Called Life (sort of). I guess Pretty in Pink kind of fits, too. You'll notice of course that "less attractive" doesn't accurately reflect reality - there aren't many female Jack Black analogues. Please do not suggest She's All That or The Breakfast Club or anything else that requires the girl to undergo a makeover to snag the man of her dreams. Thank you!

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:08:35 -0800

This should be obvious but this thread is going to be nothing but spoilers. If that bothers you stop reading.

Va gur vaperqvoyrf Ivbyrg trgf Gbal.

By: DieHipsterDie

DieHipsterDie — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:09:07 -0800

Never Been Kissed?

By: katie

katie — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:13:03 -0800

I don't remember if the protagonist undergoes much of a makeover, but one that comes to mind is The Truth About Cats and Dogs.

By: hot soup girl

hot soup girl — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:14:49 -0800

Tomboy drummer girl Mary Stuart Masterson is in love with her best friend, Eric Stolz in John Hughes's Some Kind of Wonderful... only he's in love with their school's resident Pretty Girl. Kind of like Ducky Dale in Pretty in Pink, but with a more satisfying ending.

By: nomis

nomis — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:15:28 -0800

The Truth about Cats and Dogs is one that springs to mind - Janeane Garofalo as the plain girl.

By: nomis

nomis — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:15:56 -0800

too slow

By: pazazygeek

pazazygeek — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:15:58 -0800

To my memory, Some Kind Of Wonderful is totally about that, although of course Mary Stuart Masterson is totally hot.

By: kimdog

kimdog — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:27:36 -0800

Hairspray (the original John Water's version)

By: Stacey

Stacey — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:37:24 -0800

I always loved the geeky-girl portrayal in Real Genius, and that character gets the guy at the end without that cringe-inducing makeover plot - though it's been a while since I've seen it, though I don't remember whether she actually thinks the guy is out of her league or whether he's just too dumb to realize her awesomeness for a while.

By: monkeymadness

monkeymadness — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:37:47 -0800

16 Candles

By: iconomy

iconomy — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:42:01 -0800

A Walk to Remember - Mandy Moore is a goody two-shoes nerd who gets the hottie cool kid without any kind of make over or transformation. Not that I personally would know, because I haven't seen this really cheesy movie 4 times or anything.

By: Phire

Phire — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:50:22 -0800

Mmm, does A Walk to Remember fall under this category?

By: Stacey

Stacey — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:54:24 -0800

Hm. Thinking about this further - vast quantities of Katharine Hepburn movies, perhaps? I'm specifically thinking of Holiday and Bringing Up Baby - in both cases she ends up getting the guy who starts off engaged to someone else. I'm not sure "geeky" applies, exactly, to either character, but you could certainly call them the offbeat black-sheep-ish characters.

By: twoporedomain

twoporedomain — Mon, 28 May 2007 17:56:17 -0800

By: saffry

saffry — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:01:16 -0800

16 Candles is the best example. Who wouldn't want Jake Ryan?

How about Carrie? She does get the hunk for a few brief, wonderful minutes.

By: kittyprecious

kittyprecious — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:02:48 -0800

This is barely in the "pop culture in general" category, but Sondheim's musical Passion looks like a good contender.

By: hermitosis

hermitosis — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:10:35 -0800

Babycakes starring Ricki Lake.

By: Sticherbeast

Sticherbeast — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:11:14 -0800

I read in an interview with Janeane Garofalo that in the original screenplay for The Truth About Cats and Dogs, Garofalo's character did not get the guy in the end, and that she was upset that they ended up hollywood-izing the ending. She thought that the less attractive girl would never get the guy in real life, and that one of the points of the original script was that in our society the Cyrano de Bergerac thing doesn't work when the sexes are reversed.

I find this funny in light of the fact that every time my (male) friends wind up talking about this movie, we laugh off the idea that a stiff like Uma Thurman would have been a better catch than the adorable Janeane Garofalo - thereby making the movie's central conflict very odd to us.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:14:35 -0800

She's All That, with Rachel Leigh Cook. Of course, casting her as the "nerdy plain" girl was stretching things just a bit....

By: YoBananaBoy

YoBananaBoy — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:14:50 -0800

Can't By Me Love.

By: violetk

violetk — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:15:12 -0800

"some kind of wonderful"—where the outsider girl gets the guy—was written by john hughes as a response to "pretty in pink" because he was pressured into changing the ending so that andy got together with blaine rather than ducky dale, hughes's original choice.

By: pearlybob

pearlybob — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:26:30 -0800

Wicked

By: seawallrunner

seawallrunner — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:29:21 -0800

Bridget Jones and Bridget Jones the Edge of Reason spring to mind

By: dog food sugar

dog food sugar — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:32:40 -0800

Zuckerbaby (the German version of Babycakes that hemitosis mentions)

The Mother maybe?

By: dog food sugar

dog food sugar — Mon, 28 May 2007 18:59:29 -0800

Dogfight.

By: srah

srah — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:05:53 -0800

Ugly Betty? (although she hasn't gotten him yet...)

By: transona5

transona5 — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:07:19 -0800

This is a really hard question! Maybe Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, although Saunders certainly isn't unattractive.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:11:09 -0800

I like to think that's the fallout in Vertigo.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:15:32 -0800

Muriel's Wedding

Prep

Smashing Time

The Charmer

By: RussHy

RussHy — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:15:33 -0800

How about Grease?

By: LoriFLA

LoriFLA — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:15:46 -0800

My Big Fat Greek Wedding

By: RussHy

RussHy — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:16:43 -0800

Oops! didn't read the whole question. She gets a makeover, doesn't she?

By: transona5

transona5 — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:20:47 -0800

Oh, maybe Hermione and Krum in Harry Potter -- she gets a makeover, but after Krum falls for her.

By: socratic

socratic — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:26:05 -0800

Cannot believe I'm about to go here, but, sigh, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. The movie at least.

By: hooray

hooray — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:26:16 -0800

Pride and Prejudice. Elizabeth is way out of Darcy's financial orbit, and a geek only in that she speaks her mind and likes to read.

By: socratic

socratic — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:26:52 -0800

damn you transona5. Heh.

By: Methylviolet

Methylviolet — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:32:30 -0800

There are a couple of Bollywood movies where this happens. In Andaz Apna Apna, a guy scheming to marry a glamorous heiress falls in love with her dorky secretary in spite of himself (who then turns out to be the real heiress). In Shri 420, a hotcha socialite, Maya ("illusion") throws herself at our guy, but he chooses the poor schoolteacher instead, Vidya ("knowledge"!)

On the makeover tip, a common theme is the glamorous, Westernized girl being unloved until she has a make-under, and gets geekified: traditional and "homely" (home-loving, simple). In the beginning, she might look like
this, but can't get the time of day from the hero until she looks more like this.

By: granted

granted — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:38:19 -0800

I love Never Been Kissed, but she definitely undergoes a prolonged makeover throughout the movie. Same with My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

I can't believe I forgot about Pride & Prejudice and Bridget Jones. Of course, every single "plain"/"geeky" girl mentioned so far is conventionally gorgeous outside Hollywood (with the possible exception of Ricki Lake in Hairspray.) - seriously, Mandy Moore? Oh well.

Oh, there's also that episode of Saved by the Bell where Zack has to take the fat chick to the dance and ends up liking her. But her character and that plot development was totally forgotten as soon as the credits rolled.

By: granted

granted — Mon, 28 May 2007 19:39:48 -0800

were totally forgotten (sorry)

By: WCityMike

WCityMike — Mon, 28 May 2007 20:16:55 -0800

Sandra Bullock in "Love Potion #9."

By: Johnny Assay

Johnny Assay — Mon, 28 May 2007 20:57:24 -0800

If we can include Pride and Prejudice, then You've Got Mail gets in automatically — although in neither story does the girl think that the guy's out of her league — he just is and she doesn't care.

A great Russian classic comes to mind, a movie about a little tiny, not-much-to-look-at girlie winning the heart of the Prince Charming character: Devchata.

There's also the plot of the oldest sister in Tortilla Soup, although she makes herself over slightly on one occasion to help "get the guy", and the guy isn't entirely "out of her league."

By: Crosius

Crosius — Mon, 28 May 2007 21:08:58 -0800

It's not the main plot arc, but in "Rushmore," Max Fischer (Jason Schwartzmann) eventually matures enough to realize he's not going to get his teacher (Olivia Williams) to fall in love with him and he finally connects with Margaret Yang (Sara Tanaka) - the (nerdish) girl he's ignored the whole film, despite her obvious crush on him.

By: Crosius

Crosius — Mon, 28 May 2007 21:12:18 -0800

I suppose it could be argued that Audrey Tatou's Amelie thinks the photo-booth repair-guy is out of her league.

By: brujita

brujita — Mon, 28 May 2007 21:23:38 -0800

Persuasion---adding to the Jane Austen.

By: Asparagirl

Asparagirl — Mon, 28 May 2007 21:29:44 -0800

"The Music Man", Broadway musical and movie version. Marian the Librarian gets con man "Professor" Harold Hill to actually fall for her, although she initially doesn't want him, because she's the only one in town who realizes that he's a fraud, and he initially was just being nice to her so she won't expose him. She thinks he's out of her league in the sense that he's a huckster and she's looking for a nice guy.

By: mulkey

mulkey — Mon, 28 May 2007 21:50:55 -0800

I'm pretty sure that Circle of Friends fits your requirements, but I can't fully remember the ending nor can I find a place online which will spoil it for me.

The main character Benny is not only the smart interesting one, but supposedly the larger/uglier one who gets the hunky rugby player guy. Considering that it's Minnie Driver I remember it was a bit of a stretch to think of her as either ugly or big.

By: lemuria

lemuria — Mon, 28 May 2007 21:51:03 -0800

Jane Eyre, if it counts as pop culture. Most of the movie versions cast a beautiful actress, but in the book she's straight ugly.

Although out of her league socially, Rochester isn't physically too hot either. Jane Eyre: a tale of two ugmos.

By: thisjax

thisjax — Mon, 28 May 2007 22:14:14 -0800

The Science of Sleep works here — oddball Stéphane (Gael Garcia Bernal) isn't so much out of homely and slightly less odd Stéphanie's (Charlotte Gainsbourg) league as he is initially interested in her hotter friend, Zoe. Stéphane ends up falling for Stéphanie, thinking that she's his kindred spiritg, but she spends most of the film suspecting that Stéphane is just manipulating her to get to Zoe. Stéphane and Stéphanie ostensibly end up together in the end.

By: O9scar

O9scar — Mon, 28 May 2007 23:34:05 -0800

Strictly Ballroom, which is also along the lines of Muriel's Wedding.

By: CrazyLemonade

CrazyLemonade — Mon, 28 May 2007 23:57:42 -0800

Being from Mexico myself, I'd like to mention that a lot of telenovelas used to do this. The ones with Thalia come to mind. Usually it's a poor girl, or the maid or whatever that falls in love with the rich handsome guy [with some ridiculous name].

By: humblepigeon

humblepigeon — Tue, 29 May 2007 01:41:00 -0800

Not a movie but here's a universally adored novel:

Looking for Andrew McCarthy, by Jenny Colgan.

The story of a couple of girls on the brink of their 30th birthday following a childhood dream to track down the king of geek-girl-gets-the-boy movies.

Written by Scottish writer Jenny Colgan, so very much a UK-take on American movies and culture. Pretty much kick-started the chick-lit phenomena.

By: electriccynic

electriccynic — Tue, 29 May 2007 02:48:34 -0800

You can't exactly call Kirsten Dunst ugly, but she is quite geeky and kookily charming in Elizabethtown.

And it's a total male geek fantasy, but in Free Enterprise, the love object is a female comic geek fan, and rather good looking and sassy at the same time. No makeover required.

But yeah, bring on the geeky girl films.

By: esilenna

esilenna — Tue, 29 May 2007 03:23:49 -0800

Maybe Fucking Åmål aka Show Me Love would count? The plain girl gets the hot girl at the end, no make-over involved... if I remember correctly.

Julia Stiles is not plain, and neither is her character, but no-one wants to date her in 10 Things I Hate About You, and if that counts all the other versions of Taming of the Shrew should count.

If it doesn't count, this BBC version should, as there is no make-over and Katherine (who is considered a plain harridan) does *not* change her character or looks, but still gets the guy.

By: teleskiving

teleskiving — Tue, 29 May 2007 05:00:50 -0800

Not a movie, but the final episodes of The Vicar of Dibley may qualify.

By: desuetude

desuetude — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:04:40 -0800

(Strictly Ballroom involves a lengthy makeover process.)

By: Lieber Frau

Lieber Frau — Tue, 29 May 2007 09:11:04 -0800

How about Shirley Maclaine as a reluctant G-MILF in "The Evening Star", or Diane Keaton diddling vapid Keanu Reeves in "Something's Gotta Give"? In both, they wind up with Jack Nicholson (don't they?) as an alternative to these dippy younger guys, but they get to hump some (arguably) hot younger manz first.

Although, neither of these women are exactly "Geeky".

By: Lieber Frau

Lieber Frau — Tue, 29 May 2007 09:12:31 -0800

Oh, also, "Harold and Maude" is a far superior film to either of these, but again, Maude is hardly a geek.

By: milkrate

milkrate — Tue, 29 May 2007 09:12:36 -0800

"Desk Set" might qualify - Katharine Hepburn is a geeky-ish researcher/librarian and Spencer Tracy is a dashing "efficiency expert". She doesn't really lust after him in the beginning, though.

By: Lieber Frau

Lieber Frau — Tue, 29 May 2007 09:17:05 -0800

Oh, and if you're accepting dyke movies, check out "Go Fish". The chica who Guinevere Turner's Max ends up with is a consumate nerd, and the "makeover" is hardly standard Hollywood.

By: dpcoffin

dpcoffin — Tue, 29 May 2007 09:35:48 -0800

Isn't this the basic plot of pretty much EVERY romantic comedy/dramedy? It's certainly the core idea in every high-school version: Our heroine is always more "real" than her A-list rivals, but wins in the end, not in spite of this, but because of it. We identify easily with her, and don't wind up thinking the target male is a loser because his values turn out to be OK after all.

Whether our gal is actually, arguably UN-attractive, as opposed to less-attractive, or is truly a "geek" in the viewer's mind is simply a matter of degree.

Show me a movie where the plot is the opposite of this: Our heroine is prettier, dumber, shallower than all her rivals, yet she wins!

By: plep

plep — Tue, 29 May 2007 09:58:11 -0800

What about Cinderella?

By: nev

nev — Tue, 29 May 2007 10:44:19 -0800

dpcoffin: "Clueless"

By: dpcoffin

dpcoffin — Tue, 29 May 2007 11:18:01 -0800

I wondered if anyone would consider Clueless/Emma a case of girl-with-everything-wins-again. But she doesn't get what she wants until SHE gets a makeover. Also, she's had him from the start and isn't actually in rivalry; she just needs to get a clue, not the guy, who's her's by default.

By: granted

granted — Tue, 29 May 2007 12:09:47 -0800

I don't think the Cinderella, poor-girl-winning-over-rich-guy counts, because the girl is generally beautiful and hardly a "geek." I meant specifically where the girl is considered, at least in the realm of the movie, plain and uncool, the "nice" but unattractive or tomboy friend.

What specifically triggered this question, actually, is that I recently watched the entire Freaks and Geeks series and although I loved it, it was definitely skewed towards the geeky guys triumphing in their romantic pursuits rather than the (few) geeky girls. So all Millie got was a few chaste kisses with her probably closeted "secret love," but Bill Haverchuck got to make out with the head cheerleader. You hardly ever see the reverse.

By: granted

granted — Tue, 29 May 2007 12:25:27 -0800

I also just noticed that in the three I mentioned in the beginning, there's an even geekier/less attractive guy who's in love with the heroine, but whom she rejects for the hot guy. Not sure what that says, if anything, but I find it interesting.

By: desuetude

desuetude — Tue, 29 May 2007 13:19:02 -0800

I don't think the Cinderella, poor-girl-winning-over-rich-guy counts, because the girl is generally beautiful and hardly a "geek."

Also, she gets not just a makeover, but a magicial makeover!

By: Mozzie

Mozzie — Tue, 29 May 2007 14:22:47 -0800

I was pathetically addicted to Life Goes On [the TV show] and the geeky Kellie Martin character eventually lands the popular football player with no real makeover action. It doesn't end well, but she gets him.

By: jenfullmoon

jenfullmoon — Tue, 29 May 2007 15:56:25 -0800

In Circle of Friends, the movie, the girl does get the guy. (The book, on the other hand, is pretty well, "Stick to your own kind, fat girl.")

Uh...My So-Called Life.

By: Lynsey

Lynsey — Tue, 29 May 2007 16:18:39 -0800

While You Were Sleeping springs to mind. The heroine, played by Sandra Bullock, works in the transit ticket kiosk and falls for the guy she saves from the train, played by Peter Gallagher, who turns out to be 1) engaged, 2) unconscious, 3) part of a large family, all of whom immediately assume she's his fiancee. There are even more plot twists at the end, when she realizes she's actually in love with....

No, I can't do it to you, if you haven't seen it. Let me just say that besides Ms. Bullock being way hotter than the unconscious guy's fiancee (that part didn't work for me), this movie contains one of my favorite all-time movie soliloquies, when Bullock's character stands by Gallagher's character's hospital bed and tells him all about herself.

By: lgyre

lgyre — Tue, 29 May 2007 16:30:54 -0800

it's silly but zoolander kind of falls into this category. and i don't really remember the plot that well, but i'm thinking that strictly ballroom does as well.

By: plep

plep — Wed, 30 May 2007 09:54:12 -0800

What specifically triggered this question, actually, is that I recently watched the entire Freaks and Geeks series and although I loved it, it was definitely skewed towards the geeky guys triumphing in their romantic pursuits rather than the (few) geeky girls...

Yes, my feeling like you is this is down to gender stereotypes, male intellect versus female beauty.

A TV show like 'Beauty and the Geek' with genders reversed would definitely make interesting viewing.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:12:35 -0800

My favorite movie to buck this genre is Janeane Garofalo's Sweet Hearts which is a blind date that goes horrendously and deliciously wrong. It's more unpredictable, and makes fun of the genre in a morbid, dark way. It's an underappreciated film and I recommend it highly, but after you see Sweet Hearts you may understand why Hollywood 1) insists on happy endings most of the time, and 2) insists on the stereotypical model type who dirties down rather than a woman who looks real which they can spruce up a little bit by the last real: for some reason they make more money when the look of the film doesn't reflect reality.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:19:59 -0800

real=reel