April 6, 2004

1:05 PM

EPISTEMOLOGICAL INTERPERSONAL DILEMMA AHEAD:
How does on convince someone else, who has many options available to them and who has no serious financial restrictions, to not shop at Wal-Mart? (more inside)
posted by nyoki to (44 comments total)

My partner is quite a well educated person (PHd, english - literary criticism). He’s extremely politically aware, progressive in his thinking, and able to make very complex connections in his creative endeavors. However, he still insists on shopping at WalMart - and it makes me sort of crazy.

I’ve mentioned my feelings to him several times, making overt connections between all the media (the nation, the progressive, adbusters, salon, etc) that he reads and the actual choices he makes when he spends money. He is not under any financial strain where he must get the best deal on every single product, which I know that for people whose finances are tight – shopping at WalMart is a necessity. Yet – he keeps going back there AND to make matters worse (in my eyes) always buys the “Great Value” WalMart brand food staples like butter and pepper. Yet, he’ll happily spend top dollar on “non-essential” organic foods from our local coop, like organic cranberries for instance. And there are many, many, many, businesses in the same area where he could shop.

Now, I love him to death and this is not a make or break issue in our relationship by any means – it’s just mind-boggling frustrating.

My perspective is that i have to put my money where my mouth is – as much as can be done without becoming absolutely over-the-top-zealous. The personal is political and I feel like I can rest a bit easier not funding the behemoth WalMart and taking my business elsewhere. It’s not a complex choice – where a lot of research would be required to know who and what their business practices are.

It also seems to be a problem with the greater social climate we live in – where the cheapest product is the best product irrespective of the larger social ramifications . . . and the biggest rub is that if my partner (smart, educated, socially aware) doesn’t resist those “lowest prices” . . . how can we bring about awareness to the greater whole about the actual detriment those low prices bring to the whole world?

Anyone have any advice / suggestions / similar experiences to share?
posted by nyoki at 1:09 PM on April 6, 2004

Maybe, you know, he's right. He sounds like a smart, rational, well-informed person who's made a different -- different, not wrong -- decision from you. He's a lot like me. He's a lot like a lot of people. I'm a long-haired hippy organic-gardener type, always vote Dem (hell, sometimes even Green), but I shop at WalMart when I get the chance.

It's not that I'm unaware of the issues; it's that I've made an informed decision that happens to be different from yours.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:27 PM on April 6, 2004

My sister used to work for a major WalMart (among others) supplier and the way she described it, the cheapness is an illusion. While they mark down items for which the customer is likely to comparison shop, other items are drastically marked up. For example, I have no idea how much a hammer costs, so if I go to WalMart 'knowing' that they give good deals I might naturally assume that their hammer price is a bargain when in fact it is drastically inflated. The whole operation seems like a cynical manipulation of customer perception.

Additionally, and more personally, I find it to be entirely depressing on a physical level. Just walking in makes me want to shoot myself. I don't like spending time in warehouses and I don't like shopping in them.
posted by shotsy at 1:30 PM on April 6, 2004

I hate to answer a question with a question but -- what is his reaction when you ask/confront him about shopping at Wal-Mart? What reasons does he give (however logical or illogical they may be)? There are 1000 good arguments not to shop at Wal-Mart, but choosing the one for him depends on where his head is.
posted by contessa at 1:30 PM on April 6, 2004

i had a similar difference of opinion with a friend of mine. what changed his mind was the labor practices.

he wasn't unmoved by the standard homogenizing of the american marketplace. didn't care about the underselling and the anticompetitive practices. it was the forced overtime, the hiring of undocumented (and illegal workers) as well as the "keeping all their employees just under full-time just out of the reach of decent medical benefits costs you in tax dollars". oddly, the argument that the success of the screw-your-employees business philosophy will spread and screw us all didn't move him. just the thought that he might end up paying health care for the underinsured/uninsured working poor.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:35 PM on April 6, 2004

you know, preview only helps if you read it.

"he was unmoved by the standard homogenizing of the american marketplace argument"
posted by crush-onastick at 1:35 PM on April 6, 2004

What are his stated reasons for wanting to shop there? Price? Convenience? If you've already asked him to switch before, what specific reasons does he give for not wanting to? And does he agree generally with your political views on large corporations like Wal Mart, or is he indifferent?

I personally have no real issue with large corporations, nor do I give much concern to ethical buying, so if you were trying to convince me, you'd probably need to: (a) address my reasons for shopping at Wal Mart by providing suitably priced and located alternatives; and (b) try and convince me that your political stance on this is one that I should take up as well.

You say, "It's not a complex choice." Perhaps it isn't, but there are lots of people out there who don't really care about how much their South American coffee grower is getting paid, or the domestic labour market for low-paid employees. Sad but true. If your partner is one of these people, then maybe you need to focus on persuading him to understand that general issue and repsonsibility, rather than the more specific issue of shopping at Wal Mart.

Finally, if my partner were to say to me that she would feel a lot happier if I stopped shopping at, say, Sainsbury's, and started shopping at the Co-Op instead, I would probably just do it for her sake and not argue. (Provided that she had sound reasons and that the Co-Op provided similar affordability, convenience and choice, of course!) Maybe I'm weak. Draw your own conclusions...
posted by chrismear at 1:38 PM on April 6, 2004

I don't get it. He's not forcing you to go to Wal-Mart with him. He's not spending your money on their products. Let it slide. I have a manfriend who eats at McDonald's and wears Nike. I wouldn't touch either one of them, but he does, and that's his business.
posted by pieoverdone at 1:38 PM on April 6, 2004

he really doesn't have a solid response - mostly "yes, that's true" sort of expressions. and also that he can't think of where else to get things, which i usually suggest other options of where he could look.

my armchair feeling is that it's related to the fact that his family is all about shopping at WalMart. like it's some sort of unconscious reaction - like intending to drive to X place but driving to work instead and realizing you were spaced out the whole time.

MrMoonPie - how come you shoo there when you can? can you expand so i understand why?
posted by nyoki at 1:41 PM on April 6, 2004

You know, it's really none of your darn business where he shops. He's not forcing his viewpoint on you, so why force your's onto him? I hate Wallyworld, and tell that to people all the time, but I'm not about to convert the masses.
posted by mkelley at 1:42 PM on April 6, 2004

I don't get it. He's not forcing you to go to Wal-Mart with him.

i know, i understand this. i'm not trying to limit his options or choices - just trying to understand the irritating-to-me phenomenon. it doesn't effect me at all really, and i don't intend on making it any big deal between us - it's just confusing.
posted by nyoki at 1:46 PM on April 6, 2004

Convince ≠ force, mkelley.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:46 PM on April 6, 2004

Try aesthetics. How about pointing out what the neighborhood looks like now that W-M's moved in. Or how shitty-looking all their products are. Or how lame it is to have everything in your fridge be the same brand.

Or what might be called reduction of shopping diversity. The choking out of smaller, localler stores as a result of the shadow of the giant.

Ooor... the economic consequences of their sending all their profits off to Bentonville, Arkansas and only putting back into the community their building rent and shitty wages.

You need to think a bit about why you hate Wal-Mart, so you can better tell him. There's lots of reasons to for sure, but it seems like a bit of an ideological knee-jerk right now. Good luck and hope this helps.
posted by Miles Long at 1:47 PM on April 6, 2004

There's no Target to go to instead?
posted by scody at 1:53 PM on April 6, 2004

The lines. The endless godawful lines. The spend longer in line than you did shopping lines.

I don't much mind wally world -- most of the concerns about seem misplaced to me, at least relative to the sorts of *really* awful stores they replaced in the rural and exurban South, and, well, I think most of the people who complain about it are dingbats who never had to shop in the pre-Walmart rural and exurban South.

But do I go there much, even though I have no particular objection to it? No, because it's just a miserable experience, a horrible time-suck, and there's a Tar-zhay a smidge closer where I don't have to waste my life in line.

preview: heh. what scody said.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:02 PM on April 6, 2004

If you think it from his side of the story, how would you feel if he was trying to convince you to shop at Wal-Mart? I'd assume it wouldn't make you very happy to hear it on a regular basis; it becomes nagging very easily. Ulimately, I understand your reasons for wanting him not to shop there and I think that it's great that you want to inform him, but if you have this conversation over and over with him, he's going to get tired of hearing about it and start blocking you out. It's his choice to make and I think that an intelligent a man as you say he is has probably heard just about everything that you and I have to say and has made a conscious decision to continue to shop there.

Respect his choice and know that you're doing your own part by not shopping there. Leading by example is the best way after you've already had the conversation and he didn't convert.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 2:03 PM on April 6, 2004

i lived in the prewalmart rural texas during college. you couldn't buy *tights* within 25 miles, much less underwear, or whatever. i did not consider it a godsend when the walmart finally opened up.
posted by crush-onastick at 2:15 PM on April 6, 2004

Wal-mart is one of NOW's "Merchants of Shame". There's a lot of good ammo on their site.
posted by rschroed at 2:20 PM on April 6, 2004

Sounds like Wal-Mart The Corporate Citizen doesn't worry your partner as much as it does you (and me, for that matter). You also suggest it's not price but rather convenience (not necessarily close but just plain "know where to go") that motivates him. I know I've gone to the distant place I already knew about rather than researching a "better" (for whatever value) option, yet in other dimensions I'll make myself crazy finding just the right source. Maybe this is partly about the maximizer/satisficer phenomenon?
posted by caitlinb at 2:26 PM on April 6, 2004

What ROU_Xenophobe said, mostly. And what I said here, too. And because, well, there are other things that bother me more than shopping at WalMart.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:31 PM on April 6, 2004

This article in Fast Company convinced my girlfriend's mother, a devout Wal-Mart shopper, to stop shopping there. Maybe it'll convince him, too. The fact that it comes from a pro-business magazine is certainly helpful. Additionally, the political columnist for my site just wrote a column on the proposed opening of a Wal-Mart on the West Side of Chicago. Between the column and the comments there are plenty of good reasons not to shop there.
posted by me3dia at 2:32 PM on April 6, 2004

I probably shouldn't confess to such immaturity, but if I was him I'd shop at Wal-Mart just because you were trying so hard to get me to stop.
posted by timeistight at 2:32 PM on April 6, 2004

He's not forcing his viewpoint on you, so why force your's onto him?

i'm not wanting to FORCE my opinion on him nor do i want to make it any sort of strident criticism for shopping there.

it just makes my head confused when i see the "great value" butter box in the refrigerator, or yesterday, a kids shirt and a photo frame bought as a gift (from WM) sitting on the table right next to adbusters. i wondered if any one else has had this experience and hopefully getting to some clearer understanding of it.

it (naively) seems to me that with more knowledge comes a bit more responsibility to make informed choices.

You need to think a bit about why you hate Wal-Mart, so you can better tell him.

most all of my complaints about WM are listed above, and i didn't think i should go into a laundry list here about what they are - the main one is business practices and labor issues, followed right up by the homogenous market, lastly the ugliness of shopping there and the further denigration of the american landscape.

we've only had the conversation two or three times over a long period of time - no nagging involved.
posted by nyoki at 2:35 PM on April 6, 2004

It seems like he's ambivalent about Wal-Mart, and if he's in the habit of shopping there, really, what's the harm?

Absent buying, say, butter straight from an organic cruelty-free dairy farmer, none of us can really say for sure that corporate malfeasance has beem triumphed over just because said butter was not bought specifically at Wal-Mart. I don't say this to defend Wal-Mart in any way; I avoid shopping there like the plague.

It could just be that shopping at Wal-Mart is his guilty little pleasure. If the truth about the company bothers him, eventually he'll go elsewhere. But, in the meantime, maybe you ought to buy the butter ;)
posted by contessa at 3:05 PM on April 6, 2004

it just makes my head confused when i see the "great value" butter box in the refrigerator, or yesterday, a kids shirt and a photo frame bought as a gift (from WM) sitting on the table right next to adbusters.

Two possibilities:

1. Reading adbusters does not necessarily imply that one agrees with adbusters. I try to occasionally read things I don't agree with--if they're well-written, I even find myself enjoying them. I've even been known to buy an issue of adbusters or two, despite the fact that I disagree with a lot of what's in the magazine. (I noted with relish the irony of buying Adbusters at BigEvilChainBookstore, not SmallLocalIndependentBookseller.)

However, from the other things you've said about your partner, this doesn't seem to be the case here.

2. Humans are not rational creatures. At least not all the time. Learn to accept it, or at least to choose your battles. Remeber Whitman:

Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself.
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

Interestingly, some of what I've been reading recently about consciousness suggests that Whitman may not have been so far off, in a very real way. Your husband is acting in a manner inconsistent with his professed beliefs? Yes, everyone does that from time to time.

If I may be so bold, I'd suggest that even you have behaved inconsistently in this very thread, in some cases asking how to convince your partner not to shop at WalMart, but in others stating that you're only seeking to understand why he shops at WalMart. (That's not meant as a criticism, just an observation. You're as human as the rest of us.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:13 PM on April 6, 2004

s/husband/partner/
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:15 PM on April 6, 2004

My advice is to pick your quibbles wisely and just get over this one - I think there are only so many things about a partner that you can or should try to change, and I sure wouldn't have "no shopping at Wal-Mart" very high on MY list. Accept that he does things you can't understand, and accept that there are likely things you do that HE can't understand. I'd get pretty annoyed if my husband tried to tell me where I could and couldn't shop, for no reason other than HIS issues with where I shopped, I'd happily listen to ONE explanation for why he felt I shouldn't shop there, and consider it fairly, but after that, any mention thereof would be nagging, and nagging doesn't make for happy families. If you don't want to shop there, then don't, even go as far as refusing to set foot in the place, but bacdafucup on harrassing your partner about it, unless it matters enough to you that it's worth damaging your relationship over.

And what Devil'sAdvocate said: you started off asking how to convince him to stop shopping there, and then you said you just wanted to understand it. Perhaps this is an evolution in your own attitude toward this, and you can just chalk it up as one of your partner's irritating but ultimately charming quirks?
posted by biscotti at 3:43 PM on April 6, 2004

my armchair feeling is that it's related to the fact that his family is all about shopping at WalMart.

I'm gonna guess you've hit the nail on the head.

If I suddenly found out that macaroni and cheese was immoral, I'd probably do something else to make up for it, and keep eating mac and cheese, because it's a comforting connection to my past.

I'm with you on Wal-Mart, and grateful that my partner and I agree on these types of issues. But it sounds like his trips to Wal-Mart are more like comfort food. Perhaps a better strategy would be to see if he can limit (but not eliminate) visits, and maybe do something else to make you both feel better about it. For example, every trip to Wal-Mart could be accompanied by a donation to a fair-trade organization.

If he knows you don't want to take away his mac and cheese, there might be a happy compromise.
posted by frykitty at 3:52 PM on April 6, 2004

crushonastick: the point wasn't whether I'm right or wrong for thinking that, or for not minding wal-mart.

The point was that the lines are long and unpleasant enough to keep me, someone who thinks most of the (non-labor-related) objections to wal-mart are actively stupid (whether I'm wrong or right), from setting foot in there more than a couple times a year.

ie, try this tactic, it might work. ask him how much he values his time, and whether he might find a better net deal shopping at the local Target or Sears and WhateverTheLocalSupermarketsAre and not spending a month in line to get out while the ice cream melts.

(though really ryoki should state his peace once, and then stop before it becomes nagging. but if he's going to nag, he might as well nag in a way that's more likely to work)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:54 PM on April 6, 2004

me3dia, rschroed, caitlinb - thanks for the links, great resources.

contessa - heh, getting out in front of buying the butter wayyy in advance is probably the best solution at this point!

DevilsAdvocate - very good points and no insult taken. perhaps convince wasn't the best choice of words in the intro comment, because i don't want to sit him down and make him to change because "i am right". i would like it if he didn't shop there, but i won't tell him not to. like i said in the very first word, for me it's more of a question of knowledge and action seeming not matching up with each other and wondering why - and if others have been in this situation.

crush-onastick summed up the scenario perfectly in that their friend was unmoved by several very strong points yet the one angle about paying for health-care was the clincher.

i agree that humans are not rational creatures - that it's something that just is and we must come to grips with . . . but, i don't think it odd to want to have a semi-rational discussion about irrational behavior.

the question starts with my partner and expands out to the public at large. it's an irritating thing for me personally sure, and one i have said that i haven't and don't intend on making a larger issue with him particularly. BUT - that said - i did enlarge the question to a more general one about what it might take to better persuade or educate or "convince" for a lack of a better word at the moment the real deal on unconscious support of a very bad business.
posted by nyoki at 3:54 PM on April 6, 2004

Thanks me3dia. That fast company article is great and was what convinced me to start shopping there. Now I get all my essentials there. Any company that is willing to use capitalism to its full effect is A-OK with me.

BTW: I run a small shop. So there. That gives me the right to make a say on this. And my say is that Wal-Mart KICKS ASS. They only "squash" the tiny companies that have become little more than anachronisms. And that's how society evolves, like it or not.

They operate just as they should and if that article is the worst dirt on them, then they are probably the most ethical company I know of. Did I mention I ran my own company? Yeah. And I just said Wal-Mart is probably the most ethical I know of. That being said, there's probably other dirt, not related to "squeezing out the little guy" and "pushing labour into China" that would change my mind. But those issues are just jingoistic ideals.

That's a purely logical and rational opinion. Good business doesn't run on emotion. It runs on pure logistics, and I could only HOPE to run things as smoothly as they can.

That being said, I think you should stop forcing your anti-Wal-Mart religion (*) on him. It's not right. He's made his choices. That being said, if you make it a serious issue, as a husband, he'll have to succumb. But that doesn't make it right.

(*) - Religions are based on emotion and not logic. Arguments against something that are emotionally based (especially based on a "fear") rather than logically based get characterized with that word -- at least for me.
posted by shepd at 4:03 PM on April 6, 2004

I run a small shop. So there. That gives me the right to make a say on this.

i don't think there is any qualifying fact that gives anyone more or less of a RIGHT to say anything about this topic . . . opinions are opinions are opinions.

And my say is that Wal-Mart KICKS ASS. They only "squash" the tiny companies that have become little more than anachronisms. And that's how society evolves, like it or not.

well, i think the theory that "it is how society evolves" is based in a specific model of the way the world works - ie: the current supreme-being trump card of corporate capitalism. i do not agree that this is how it has always been nor how it will always continue to be into the future.

i see WalMart more like cancer - unchecked growth that will soon make it much harder for the organism known as Planet Earth to function properly. i'm not "afraid" of WalMart, nor are most of us who have negative feelings about them using extremely emotional (ie: religious) arguments.
posted by nyoki at 4:26 PM on April 6, 2004

find a new boyfriend. You seem to be diametrically opposed at the most basic level. It will never last.
posted by crunchland at 4:41 PM on April 6, 2004

withhold sex.
posted by pissfactory at 5:15 PM on April 6, 2004

This is really interesting stuff.
posted by rudyfink at 5:43 PM on April 6, 2004

but there are lots of people out there who don't really care about how much their South American coffee grower is getting paid, or the domestic labour market for low-paid employees.

Or maybe they do care, but they're overwhelmed. I find that when I start trying to think about where every purchase comes from, my brain begins to hurt. Sometimes I just wanna go buy the damn widget. It's like recycling -- I know it's important, and I do my best, but gosh, sometimes I miss those halcyon days of my childhood when we just threw everything away.

Regarding your particular problem, yeah, I agree in theory that it's none of your business where he shops, but you live together, I take it? You're a household? That does give you, I think, the right to some input as to where things are bought. Of course, that also means you have to compromise on some things, and maybe this is one of them.
posted by JanetLand at 5:45 PM on April 6, 2004

My life is like this sometimes. I basically do what many have suggested and choose my battles. One of the constant problems of the progressive movement [and I often count myself among them] is an inability to understand how smart people can make what they perceive to be dumb choices. There's just a sense in which you just kind of blink at someone [like your boyfriend] and say "but don't you get it...?" and start your spiel all over again. People have different priorities and it seems that his aren't yours. That's not unsurmountable, but there may be some give and take. Can you make a deal with him, go for a little wiggle room from him on your end on any issue you disagree about? "If we get butter at Wal-Mart we have to buy only fair trade coffee for a month..."

The deal me and my b'friend have is: we don't shop at Wal-Mart regularly, we don't buy anything there we can get anyplace else [and this is rural Vermont, there is a biggish list of things that are hard to get anyplace but Wal-Mart without paying twice as much], we don't get anything other than what we went into Wal-Mart for if we go in there, and we waste zero time arguing about it. If your boyfriend is smart like my boyfriend, he's probably hard to convince.

If he goes on his own time, it's his business, he does not belong to me. If he buys household food from there, I'll kvetch b/c we share food and food expenses and there are other places to get food. My basic issue is they are the largest private employer in the country and they systematically pay women less than men, at least according to the class action lawsuit that has been turning up some interesting statistics about Wal-Mart's hiring and promotion proactices.

I still eat meat, I drive a car a long way to work, and I loooooove my quickie Internet, none of which are particularly good for the environment. However, I make other compromises and I feel like on balance I come out ahead in terms of living the way I want the world to be. Is your boyfriend an okay guy, on balance? I think it's fine to keep having these talks with him, but you might have to accept the fact that you may not be able to change him, so its worth thinking about just how much this one issue means to you.
posted by jessamyn at 5:51 PM on April 6, 2004

My advice - and no snark intended - is to move on to something else! Of all the things in the world to stress out over, this one should Low on the list of priorities. You've already spent quite a bit of time pondering this issue - and I honestly think that you should just relax and move on.
posted by davidmsc at 6:07 PM on April 6, 2004

This Onion piece.
posted by rafter at 6:10 PM on April 6, 2004

jessamyn, my boyfriend is a very okay guy. he's great in so many ways i'd be pressed to list them all. it's a very minor thing in the scope of our relationship, but one that was on my mind this morning and i can't tell you how discussing the situation has completely taken the sting out of my concern. i still think it's a challenging issue, and one that i'm sure will still bring about some negotiating into the future.

You've already spent quite a bit of time pondering this issue - and I honestly think that you should just relax and move on.

it's been very beneficial pondering back and forth and it did make me relax about it. open discussion (and being called on misleading arguments) lets the air out of most niggling relationship gripes for me. thanks everyone.
posted by nyoki at 6:47 PM on April 6, 2004

From what you've said, you both seem to fundamentally share the same values, so I think there's a lot of possiblity for compromise.

I happen to be on your SO's side of this debate—but I am also quite aware that I have some particular issues that I place a great deal of weight upon that many other (similar-minded) people do not. It seems to me that Wal-Mart (and the related issues) is a "hot-button" for you. That's okay. I think it's also okay that it's not a "hot-button" issue for your SO.

Hmm. I'm not saying this very well. Okay, look. It's a damn complicated world. Even if two people agree on most of the same starting assumptions and values, they still are very likely to disagree on the relative importance of various issues and, occasionally, will do so strongly. If you're both acting in good faith, you've both thought about it, you're both aware of the issues and facts involved, and still come to a disgareement about where to place priorities, that's okay because it's inevitable. When your values fundamentally differ, that's a problem.

What you need to do is to approach this with him from the perpective of "to which of us does this matter the most?" It it's a big deal to you, and he's ambivalent about it and it's really mostly a habit, then it seems to me that you have a good reason to ask him to compromise with you—though not necessarily require him to come around to your way of thinking.

Successful relationships aren't about not having conflicts. Successful relationships are about having similar sensibilities about which conflicts really matter and which ones don't.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:53 PM on April 6, 2004

Walmarts in Korea are guilty only by association with the parent company for all the ills that are correctly attributed to them in America or Canada. When I live in the vicinity of one here in Korea (which is unfortunately not the case at the moment), I patronize them without guilt, buying things that either I simply could not buy elsewhere (some imported foods from North America) or things that are cheaper than they are elsewhere (at Carrefour (a French chain) or Tesco's (a UK chain, in partnership with Samsung)) or a local chain or market.

Which I suddenly realize doesn't really answer your question, because presumably your partner is shopping at a Walmart in America. Whoops.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:54 AM on April 7, 2004

i'm not sure all these people telling you to ignore it and move on are right. it seems to me to be a pretty major ethical point. i've heard that there's research which suggests people who are less numerate are more likely to think that they are not responsible for actions that they perform as part of a group (i guess the argument is that they have less intuition about collections being the sum of the parts?). not sure how that helps you, though, unless you feel like teaching him addition :o)
posted by andrew cooke at 9:54 AM on April 7, 2004

I have a hunch you'll never resolve this argument, and on a fundamental level, that's OK, so long as you can come to terms with it. If I may, let me play counterpoint with some of your notes above:

armchair feeling is that it's related to the fact that his family is all about shopping at WalMart. like it's some sort of unconscious reaction

So be it. I shop where my parents shop, too. You can't change this inclination. What you can do is gently introduce alternatives and slowly convert your partner to your way of thinking.

Example: My wife used to buy sticks of butter because they fit in her fridge and her mom bought them, too. I love Breakstone's whipped butter and began bringing it into the house for myself. Eventually we ran out of stick butter and my wife tried, and liked, the Breakstone's, and now that's what we buy together. (She did the same to me with many desserts.) Try introducing your partner to stores and products that you feel are superior, and do it gently and slowly.

the main one is business practices and labor issues, followed right up by the homogenous market, lastly the ugliness of shopping there and the further denigration of the american landscape

Sounds like you have a grudge and your partner doesn't. The more you rail against anything negative you can find, the less your partner will be inclined to listen, much less agree. Focus your argument and believe it.

the question starts with my partner and expands out to the public at large. ... i see WalMart more like cancer - unchecked growth that will soon make it much harder for the organism known as Planet Earth to function properly.

Here you lose and your partner wins. You can't define Wal-Mart as "wrong" without looking at the many things the firm did, and does, right: unbelievable distribution, capitalist muscle, bringing products to remote areas, etc. I don't love all that they do, either, but I certainly respect their successes. Not everyone in the public at large thinks Wal-Mart is such a bad thing.
posted by werty at 11:56 AM on April 7, 2004