Comments on: libido odds

Question: libido odds

Anonymous — Wed, 23 May 2007 07:48:45 -0800

What is the likelihood my girlfriend will ever get any sort of horny?

I am a late 20s involuntary virgin male. I've been very sexually frustrated (and therefore depressed) since high school, never being able to convince any girls to like me, though Lord did I try. (I'm maybe average looking - I've at least worked out and stayed fit since I was 13, solely to try and impress females - but sort of low status and introverted, both in high school/college and post-college). Finally a year ago I did successfully court a pretty girl and had my first kiss. She was 20 and also never kissed anyone. (which is a good thing, because I felt really off schedule) We had some eager make out sessions in the early days and we steadily progressed through the bases, and she went on the pill. Many downsides followed:

- Every time I tried to sexually penetrate her, she says it hurts, (or makes an intense grimace) and so I stop. My penis is not big and we've tried plenty of lube.

- Despite giving her oral sex every week, she said she found the idea of giving me oral sex reflexively upsetting. She associates it with rape and male oppression. *shrug* (no, she has never been sexually abused. Certain.)

- Every time I give her oral sex or kiss her, she lays there bored, completely motionless, and tired. Many times she does fall asleep.

None of this is because she is conservative or 'not ready' for sex. This is obvious for a number of reasons, including her say so and her opinions. About 6 months in she cries and says she lost her libido entirely. She strongly suspects the pill and says she needs to get off of it. She does. 6 months later her libido has not returned (it's disappeared) and we still have not had sex due to her lack of desire and pain. No sort of kissing or anything interests her or turns her on anymore either. Recently she cried again, she finds this very upsetting. She wants to be horny, and finds horny and sex to be desirable and valuable things. She is certain something biological is going on - and is convinced it was the pill, because she was incredibly horny before that.

But I think there is a confounding factor - she went on the pill shortly after she met me - it seems just as likely I slowly killed her libido by being unattractive (in status, awesomeness, appearance, personality) and a lousy lover. Obviously nothing I do is pleasing to her body, and she never seems smitten at all with me (she says 'sometimes' she feels attracted to me, if I ask)

I have never been a pig about her lack of desire or anything else, nor have I ever displayed any "self-pity" in front of her. Though I have always encouraged her to be open about what I can or shouldn't do to help her. (She doesn't know)

She's got her womanly checkup in a couple of weeks, and she will inquire.

I really like my girlfriend - we are best friends, each other's only friends, in fact- but honestly I've been ready to have a sexual relationship for what seems like forever, and it sucks being a statistical outlier on such an important part of being a human being. My best years are almost gone and I want a healthy sexual relationship. My Internet research is not encouraging that her problem has an obvious source or will ever go away. Scientists seem to know nothing about the mysterious female libido. I'm not optimistic about her clinic visit.

My question for the crowd is what are the odds things will ever change? What are the odds that I am really the problem? How long should I wait? Should I breakup with her for both our sakes? (yes I'll wait until after the clinic's opinion - she might have a tumor or something. Probably not.) I've spent so long with such pitiful luck trying to win female affection that it really seems like I'll never be able to get what I've got now (however incomplete), but I honestly feel like I'm standing in her way of getting the sexuality she wants too. Meanwhile I invest a lot of money, emotions, and energy into this relationship, and yet she doesn't seem to feel much for me emotionally either. Never bought me a present, paid me compliment, and hints that I almost certainly have an assigned expiration date. Meanwhile when I give her presents, compliments, etc, she doesn't respond with much emotion. She hints that it upsets her how little she is able to feel for me emotionally as well. (she doesn't have any other friends, and hasn't really since grade school, and it doesn't seem like she feels many good emotions for anybody outside her small nuclear family.) She agrees I make her happy, if I ask.

I'm not much better than her socially, and in fact her companionship kept me from what was a near-suicidal loneliness and emptiness. So this is tough. But I certainly do not want to keep putting a draining investment into a relationship that will likely never have any sort of normal sexual desire and behavior. On the other hand I do not want to break up with her if there is a chance I am overlooking a problem with a likelihood of a cure. My ignorance is calculating this likelihood.

By: Uther Bentrazor

Uther Bentrazor — Wed, 23 May 2007 07:56:00 -0800

It's not your fault.

By: Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America

Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:01:58 -0800

Break up with her. Being with her is draining your self esteem, and you'll never have a satisfying sex life with her.

By: kcm

kcm — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:03:16 -0800

You're codepdent to the extreme and you're being used emotionally and financially. Break up with her and get a hobby. You'll meet better people.

By: yohko

yohko — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:05:27 -0800

we are best friends, each other's only friends, in fact

Simply not having any other friends is neither a necessary or sufficient condition of being best friends. She does not sound like she has any romantic interest in you at all, from your decription - 'sometimes' attracted to you, never complimented you, doesn't feel anything for you emotionally. It sounds to me as though the two of you are only together because you haven't been able to find anything else.

Being with someone out of fear that they are the best you can do will kill your soul.

By: M.C. Lo-Carb!

M.C. Lo-Carb! — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:06:32 -0800

Your best years are not almost over. Drop this fickle friend, and work on developing some confidence.

By: BeaverTerror

BeaverTerror — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:06:56 -0800

You're a nice guy. She doesn't deserve you. Stop wasting your time, dump her, and work on your self-esteem.

By: mygothlaundry

mygothlaundry — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:10:17 -0800

Honey, it's not you, it's her. Really, seriously - it's her. She doesn't find you attractive for whatever reason but that does not mean that you are not attractive! She's not in love with you. That's sad, but it happens and while you're both wasting time trying to fall in love with each other (hint: it doesn't work that way. It either happens or it doesn't and it hasn't.) there are other people out there in the world who might be just waiting to fall in love with you.

I don't think this relationship is going to work. The reality is that with most relationships, the first six months or so are the hottest part sexually and then things begin to cool down. If it starts off cool it's really very rare that it's going to heat up. You're what, a year into this? And still no sex? Move on.

I've only had one relationship that started out terrible sexually and I ended it after three months with a lot of heartbreak and thought I was unattractive and horrible. Well, just the other day I had a heart to heart with another woman who had been with the same guy and it turned out that it wasn't me at all. There was something rather specific that he needed that I couldn't do (not that he asked me, there is that) and he was cheating on me to boot. If I'd realized that it wasn't me who was the problem - and I did, in time - than I would have saved myself a hell of a lot of grief.

It sounds like you have some social phobias and awkwardness and I think you need new friends. A mefi meetup? An online group of local bloggers or something? Political action? Book club? Become a regular at the local bar? There are lots of ways to meet people you might get along with and roughly half those people will be female and I bet, I totally bet, that some of them will find you attractive and will, in a nutshell, want to fuck your brains out. They are out there. I swear to you they are.

By: boomchicka

boomchicka — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:10:49 -0800

I was going to go into a whole long thing about how imbalanced hormones can be causing her low libido, or maybe it's her thyroid, etc. and that her doctor should be able to help. But hormones don't make you view oral sex as rape or make you an uncaring zombie to your very nice and earnest boyfriend. And this part:

Never bought me a present, paid me compliment, and hints that I almost certainly have an assigned expiration date

...makes me scrap any sympathy I had for her and say break up with her. She's got a million issues that no one is going to be able to solve for her, and you'll drive yourself crazy trying. Move on and find someone else; you may even find that finding a nice girl gets easier as you get older, when they've grown up into women and are looking for a nice guy. I know the thought of dropping your only friend is scary, but you'll meet new friends and nice girls. Where do you live? Try starting by organizing a MeFi meetup in your town. Good luck and hang in there' you'll get where you need to be eventually.

By: cmonkey

cmonkey — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:15:07 -0800

She isn't horny because she isn't attracted to you, emotionally or physically. And that isn't your fault, so don't let that become yet another reason to feel like shit about yourself. You two are settling for each other and that'll leave you both more miserable than you would be if you broke up and were single for the rest of your lives.

The best way to get out of a rut is to break up with a girl holding you back and move far away and start fresh.

By: yohko

yohko — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:16:20 -0800

You come across well in writing, snap a bunch of pics of yourself, pick the best one and get on match.com or something. Ditch the attitude that you are "low status", maybe you aren't the alpha male, but plenty of women really hate that stuff. Make sure you are paying attention to the not so pretty girls too.

This is what you do after you dump her and work on your self esteem.

By: LoriFLA

LoriFLA — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:18:44 -0800

Meanwhile when I give her presents, compliments, etc, she doesn't respond with much emotion. She hints that it upsets her how little she is able to feel for me emotionally as well. (she doesn't have any other friends, and hasn't really since grade school, and it doesn't seem like she feels many good emotions for anybody outside her small nuclear family.) She agrees I make her happy, if I ask.

Gosh, anonymous. I hate to say "dump her", but maybe you should. You deserve a partner that loves you and feels attracted to you. There are women out there that will be happy to be in a relationship with you.

My first thought was, My god this man needs normal, satisfying sex. Go get some.

I'm not a mental health professional, but another thought that comes to mind is that your girlfriend may be depressed. She doesn't have friends. Her libido is low. She doesn't have many good emotions. These are signs of depression. She may be sticking around with someone she isn't attracted to because of the depression. If you love her, and you really believe that she loves you, maybe couple's counseling would be an option. And maybe she should see a psychiatrist.

By: aramaic

aramaic — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:19:33 -0800

I'm sorry, but you have to leave this woman. She may have a medical issue, or not. She may have a treatable psychiatric issue, or not. Either way she's not into you.

You're already broken up; it's just that neither of you can admit it yet.

By: Elmore

Elmore — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:20:16 -0800

Things can change, but don't always.

You are not the problem.

Don't wait any longer, talk to her. Let her know what you've said here, and how it is bothering you. A relationship cannot work one way only.

If you decide to break up with her, do it for yourself. So that things can improve for you.

Don't be so down on yourself. You've been focusing a lot of attention on her, it might be time to focus on yourself for a change. Do some new things, meet some new people. She can be part of that too, if that's the way things go.

By: NationalKato

NationalKato — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:26:32 -0800

I know it seems like it, but these are not your 'best' years. Everyone entering their 20s thinks so - but only because they've not lived any longer. You think youth is fading when in fact your adult, truly sexually active, life is just starting. Personally, I had tons more sex in my 30s than in my 20s as a single man. Trust the hive mind on this one. Your best years are yet to come, no pun intended.

Breaking up with her does not mean the friendship need be over. As a matter of fact, you're more likely to appreciate each other once the pressure of sexual relations is no longer weighing on you. Stop waiting on someone else to make yourself happy. Make yourself happy. Now.

By: taz

taz — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:31:27 -0800

What mygothlaundry said. You sound terribly young, and you have this awful image of yourself as undesirable as a boyfriend/sexual partner, but now is exactly the time when you should be finding out that this isn't true at all - and you will.

It's not her fault, it's not your fault, but you two aren't a love match. You are close, close friends who would like to love each other romantically/sexually, but don't. It's time to move forward.

By: Baud

Baud — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:32:28 -0800

Maybe she would benefit from seeing a shrink and/or some kind of sex doctor since it looks like an health problem. Maybe a bit of counselling will help, maybe some kind of hormonal treatment.

(I'm not a doctor, only hoping to add my Two cents).

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:33:15 -0800

I'm embarrassed to say I was kind of like this girl at around that age. I was actually quite horny, just not when my boyfriend was around. For me, I just wasn't in the right relationship, even though I really liked the guy and kind of wanted to sleep with him my sexual emotions could never get in the right place (horny/aroused) at the right time (when he was in the room).

Even though I was in college and most people go through this at a younger age, I'd been sheltered for most of my life, with few friends and my closet relationships with family members. I needed a bit more exposure to how my peers related and interacted in their own sexual relationships before I was ready to have a healthy sexual relationship of my own.

In the end, we broke up. He found other, less repressed, girls to date and have healthy sexual relationships with. I gradually got over my repression, even though it took time. I think that's probably your future course as well.

Some things that might help your case, if you want to stick it out for longer:
* Ask her questions about herself. Listen to her. Don't talk about yourself for an entire day.
* Engage her intellectually and respect her mind, especially when she disagrees with you.
* Instead of obsessing over her genitals, start touching her in teasing, sensual ways in other places: run your hand down from her shoulders to the small of her back and let it linger; kiss her hand, when you're sitting together put your hand above her knee and leave it there, run your hand along her jaw line up to her ear, and lightly caress her ear and the side of her face. Do this kind of thing a lot. If she's got any kind of libido and attraction for you, it should gradually drive her wild.
* Also cuddle in explicitly non-sexual ways.
* Give her space. I'm guessing that the two of you have classes, possibly jobs, maybe some extracurriculars, and that you spend most of your remaining free time together. Go a day without calling, e-mailing, etc. her. Call her the next day just to talk, but don't suggest getting together until the third day. She may need some breathing room to process what's going on.

By: jamaro

jamaro — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:38:23 -0800

She's just not that into you and yep, that means you won't be in her.

I'm sorry you've invested so much of yourself into this relationship but listen to what everyone above is saying: you can move on, you will find someone else, it's never too late. Handle this breakup with grace and compassion and down the road you'll still be friends.

By: Doohickie

Doohickie — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:16 -0800

What is the likelihood my girlfriend will ever get any sort of horny?

Basically, none.

By: AV

AV — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:40:38 -0800

Let's see: you're in your twenties, stay in shape, know how to maintain a relationship and can apparently use proper spelling and grammar? Dude, you can do so much better than this girl. Break up with her and don't look back.

Also: insecurity on the level you display here is not going to help you with friendships or relationships. It's not other people's job to be constantly reassuring you, and they'll avoid you if they think that's what being with you entails. This is something you can work through, though. Reinvest the time and money you're wasting on your girlfriend in a good therapist, who can help you with your self-esteem. Take little steps daily to stop questioning yourself and to stop interpreting other people's actions as things they do because they're more extroverted/better than you. It won't happen overnight, but you can get over this.

Also also: being a virgin at your age is so not a big deal. Anyone who has issues with that... has issues.

Just... no emo, okay? Moping about your hopelessness does not endear you to to other people. Giving yourself permission to be your awesome self will. Confidence is sexy. Cultivate some, and you'll be all right.

By: buriednexttoyou

buriednexttoyou — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:48:10 -0800

Break up with her. You know that overwhelming sexual frustration? It doesn't have to be there. She's not the one to help it go away, though. Go meet new people, there are lots of people out there and every woman is different. You will learn a lot about them, and you will feel better about yourself. I promise, there are girls out there who are just as nice and thoughtful as you, and when you are in their bedroom, they really will (as mygothlaundry said) "want to fuck your brains out."

After a particularly bad relationship, which bore some similarities to your own, my mom told me to "go sew some wild oats." I kid you not, my own mother. I was shocked at the time, but seriously, the only way to get a handle on what relationships are about is to have relationships. Go find someone new, and make some new friends too. School really distorts what actual social interaction is like, so forget all the lousy stuff. Just get out there.

By: meerkatty

meerkatty — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:48:56 -0800

Is she a lesbian? Either way, she's not gonna get any sort of horny with you. Move on.

By: Robert Angelo

Robert Angelo — Wed, 23 May 2007 08:52:01 -0800

...hints that I almost certainly have an assigned expiration date.

Hers has passed.

By: foxy_hedgehog

foxy_hedgehog — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:04:08 -0800

This was a sad post to read, because it sounds like in your best efforts to break out of your shell and have an intimate, loving connection with another person, you've found yourself in a relationship that confirms all your worst fears about yourself. I know you don't want to feel this way, but sometimes a lifetime of low self-esteem accustoms you to being in situations where you don't get your needs met and, while you desperately want things to be different, those situations feel perversely "normal" because they are what you have grown used to and it's harder to get yourself out of them.

Relationships are all about work and compromise, of course, but there are bottom lines, and one of them is that a healthy relationship should help you begin to unpack your baggage and let go of your anxieties and feel confident, happy, and loved. If it's doing the opposite, then you need to be in a different relationship- in this case, one where you are given to as much as you give to, sexually, emotionally, gift-wise, and otherwise.

I can imagine, from the way you've described yourself, that part of what's holding you back from trying to find a different relationship is the fear that this is the only person who will want you. But the fact that you are slightly behind other 20somthings in your degree of romantic experience only means that you are a late bloomer, not that you are ugly or rejectable.
Please please please don't try to make the fact that you couldn't have a satisfying relationship with this woman- sexually and generally- as more evidence for the pile you've insistently accumulated that proves you are somehow defective, unattractive or unworthy. Or, for that matter, not a good lover. Your girlfriend sounds like many women- including my early 20's self- who haven't had sufficient chance to explore and develop their sexuality: she doesn't know what she likes , has poor communication skils vis a vis sex, and feels alienated from her libido. The result is checking out during sex and not engaging or responding to her partner, verbally or sexually. It's possible that there are chemical issues at hand, pill-wise or otherwise, but it also sounds like she is having trouble with the sex thing, period.

If she was more able to be open and communicative with you and to you, this would be something you could work on together, but she's not, and so the weight of your mutual sense of tension and anxiety surrounding sex sounds like it's become a self-perpetuating impairment to your attempts to enjoy each other. This isn't about your skills and attractiveness; it's about her own issues, and it will most likely take her several years and a vibrator to work those out to the point where she can truly engage with her partners during sex.

It also sounds like both of you are also quite depressed and lonely. Which makes the sex question more complicated and fraught, but also means that the real problem might be something quite different than sexual incompatibility. You can't solve her problems, and she can't solve yours. This is painful, but also liberating. It also means is that your backdrop- my which I mean your overall sense of self in relation to yourself and other people- needs to shift before you can have a satisfying relationship where you can feel like you deserve someone who gives you just as much as you give them, in every department from oral sex to emotional endearments. This could involve everything from trying your luck on Match, as one poster suggested, to get some alternative messages about how people perceive you, to working out some of these self-esteem issues with a therapist.

And one final thought. Your best years are in no way over, although it's easy to think that it's all downhill into heart disease, professional drudgery, and passing out in front of the TV every night from here on out. I assure you that that's not the case. You have a lifetime of hot sex and loving relationships ahead of you. You deserve 'em. And while it's easy to feel left behind while the culture tells you that you are supposed to be Having a Blast and nothing less, there's no expiration date here. You just need a chance to become the person you will be, and because of any number of things you're just on a different schedule.

By: dead_

dead_ — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:05:09 -0800

You're codepdent to the extreme and you're being used emotionally and financially. Break up with her and get a hobby. You'll meet better people.

There it is. Drop her.

By: aeighty

aeighty — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:15:52 -0800

Hey, how about getting wasted together? Expectations and thoughts of failure put so much pressure on me, that I sometimes fizzle.. maybe that's her problem too?

If the "social lubricant" doesn't work, you'll have to admit there's no zing and move on. Just a part of life.

By: hermitosis

hermitosis — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:16:46 -0800

The girl is a clod, and what's worse, a selfish lover, if "lover" is even the correct term here.

Seriously, you are adorable and we all want to have sex with you now, just to prove it's okay.

I know it seems like leaving this relationship is like choosing the devil you don't know over the one that you do, but the devil you don't know will probably at least wind up giving you a blowjob.

It is very, very bad for a person to have constantly unsatisfying sex.

Unfortunately, you will likely find that after the wake-up call of your leaving, this girl will wind up with a guy who she lets fuck her brains out, who treats her way less charitably than you do. If/when that happens, you'll be able to see why you're so unsatisfying-- you're a perfectly nice, adequate, beautiful person.

By: Methylviolet

Methylviolet — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:19:17 -0800

Try this. Really. Check it out from the library. If you don't want to go to a shrink right now, this book can shrink you a little in the comfort of your own home if you give it a try.

Because I think you're being irrational. Like tinfoil hat irrational, and you want to face that. Being alone is not, cannot be, worse than this relationship. If you think it would be, or, as you say here, that this relationship is the best you can do, you definitely want to adjust your thinking. What is so deeply wrong with you, alone in all the world, that it makes it impossible for anyone to love you or want you or even want you as a friend? We in this thread all think you're smart and articulate and have been patient and giving to a fault -- is it really impossible that someone in real life would see the same qualities we do? If it were someone else you were reading about, you'd say no, right? Well... check your head.

By: foxy_hedgehog

foxy_hedgehog — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:21:22 -0800

I should have added:

Let's see: you're in your twenties, stay in shape, know how to maintain a relationship and can apparently use proper spelling and grammar? Dude, you can do so much better than this girl. Break up with her and don't look back.

AV is right. You keep fit, are happy to eat pussy, and can write a complete sentence? Those three things alone mean you're already a hot commodity.

By: callmejay

callmejay — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:38:31 -0800

Been there. Tried for 3 years to make it work, with no success. We kept thinking, hey maybe this will fix her libido. Finally realized she just wasn't that into me, broke up, and now have a new girlfriend and an unbelievable sex life. I'm overweight and introverted, too, so it's not like I'm some Casanova.

Move on.

By: Gucky

Gucky — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:48:51 -0800

This was my best friend in high school. (I was the slutty friend.)

She said she had no interest in sex, complained about it, etc. -- until she fell in love with a guy who was spot on for her and then there was no problem at all. Somehow. Magically. Overnight. (in her late 20s)

He wasn't the nicest guy, the smartest guy, the most attractive guy that had courted her. He just had the right mixture of neuroses and aggression that fit in with her weirdness.

It's not that you're unlovable or necessarily bad in bed, but there's an incompatibility here that's just not working. That's it.

I wish I could say guys who try really hard eventually get rewarded, but as a girl and a friend of many guys, we all know that's not true. Once you've trained someone how to treat you, it's near impossible to untrain them.

Be done with her. If she deeply cares about you and has to be with you, etc, it might snap her into awareness and change the power relationship a bit. And if not, you need to start over with a relationship based on mutual interest and appreciation.

By: taz

taz — Wed, 23 May 2007 09:54:03 -0800

Rereading some answers (not gucky)... I don't think we need to demonize the girlfriend. The main thing is that it's not working for either of them. They love each other, but they're definitely not in love. She will maybe feel differently about someone else, sometime in the future. Other women will definitely feel differently about our poster, and will want to fuck him and give him love gifts, and hug him and kiss him... and eventually, with luck, one of those will be his life's love.

Poster, many people here seem to want you to get angry; that's probably because they're angry themselves. I say that you were lucky to have such a close friendship, but unlucky that it wasn't the love that both of you wanted it to be. That's perfectly okay - almost none of us managed to find love right away. Almost all of us found out that we had a lot to learn, and almost all of us felt insecure, inexperienced and kind of freaked out by the whole thing. This means you're normal. This is not your girl. I hope you two will be able to be friends, because I think you love each other... but it's not that kind of love. You've learned a lot now that will help to form the person you will be in the future. Having this relationship will help you both in your future relationships. It's kind of bittersweet that failed love helps us find real love, but it's mostly true. Nobody springs from the waves as the ideal and perfect virgin lover.

By: bonaldi

bonaldi — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:07:12 -0800

I've been here before. Dump her. It'll be amazing how attractive that'll make you. By the time she comes back though, you're not going to care.

By: gnutron

gnutron — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:19:14 -0800

Escape. Do not hesitate.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:20:02 -0800

Wow, anon. You're me 20 years ago: I could never get a girlfriend in high school, I was average looking (at best), I had low self-esteem (at least about myself as a romantic/sexual being). It felt like I was doomed to go through life alone and untouched.

In college, I finally started dating a girl. I didn't settle for any girl who would have me. This girlfriend was my best friend. We really enjoyed each other's company, shared interests and a sense of humor, etc. That was before we started dating.

When things became more romantic, I always knocked myself out doing and saying nice things to her. She rarely reciprocated. One day, I mentioned that in a year, it might be fun for us to travel to Europe together. She said, "A year? We probably won't even still be dating then." It was one of the most painful things anyone every has said to me.

And she was right. A few months later, she broke up with me. And then I went through many more painful years alone.

But at 28, I met a girl who I've now been with for 13 years. All those years of painful loneliness -- really and terrible as they were -- seem like they happened to someone else. I never even think about them.

THE BEST YEARS OF YOUR LIFE ARE NOT ALMOST OVER.

And that doesn't just apply to your love live. Almost everyone I know was happier in their 30s than they were in their 20s. And I'm happier in my 40s than I was in my 30s.

If you're as loving as you seem, you'll find someone. I'm sorry that the years leading up to that will be lonely. They will. But it's worth waiting through them. Almost everyone who keeps looking does find someone. The odds are in your favor.

It will probably happen to you in your mid-to-late 20s (you may have some flings before then, but that's when you'll probably find your soul-mate). If you're unlucky, it may not happen until you're in your 30s or 40s. I doubt it will take that long, but if it does, it's still worth hanging in there and waiting for. What I've learned form my longterm relationship is that they're worth it even if they don't happen until you're 60. Once you finally find happiness, the bad years leading up to it will be magically erased.

In the meantime, work on yourself! Don't focus so much on getting a girlfriend. You don't get a girlfriend by trying to get a girlfriend. Instead, work on your education, hobbies, etc. Read, play, travel, whatever. Become an interesting person and other people will become attracted to you.

Oh, and learn how to please a woman. There's a whole industry of books, videos (not porn!), etc. that is there to help you. Don't wind up in bed with a woman not knowing what to do! There's no reason why you should have to. The knowledge is out there.

By: fire&wings

fire&wings — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:20:46 -0800

Great post foxy_hedgehog, I think you summed it up perfectly.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:23:39 -0800

Rent some porn, browse the intranet and take notes on how to be a good lover, because that's the only way you're going to get better without hands-on practice.

No! I'm not anti-porn at all, but you'll learn nothing from it about how to please a woman. That would be like trying to learn how to win real hand-to-hand combat by watching a Bruce Lee film! Porn is about fantasy (usually male fantasy). Not reality.

By: meghanmiller

meghanmiller — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:28:03 -0800

While I agree with basically everyone else who's saying 'this is her problem, not yours', I would respectfully submit that it sounds like you are part of the problem as well.

In your second sentence, you say that you've been "very sexually frustrated (and therefore depressed) since high school", and from where I am sitting, it sounds to me like you are just depressed, aside from the sexual frustration. Lots of people, especially in high school and college, are sexually frustrated, and to say that it is the root cause of your depression makes me think that you're not being entirely honest with yourself about your own mental state. I am not saying that this is your fault in any way, I'm just saying that between that statement and the crippling lack of self-esteem displayed in this post, you may wish to look into some sort of therapy for yourself.

Leave this relationship. Then find yourself a therapist and work on these self-esteem issues, and start looking for a circle of (platonic) friends. Stop trying to "convince" girls to like you, and start developing a life that has something more than sex and/or a romantic relationship as an end goal -- I promise that it will make you far more appealing as a romantic prospect. You don't sound like a bad guy, and you speaking as a woman in her mid twenties, I can assure you that the lack of sexual experience isn't a dealbreaker, at least for anyone I know. You deserve better than this, and so does whomever you're with.

By: sian

sian — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:37:34 -0800

Please do not demonize the girlfriend. Anon, do consider leaving her, but relate to her that it is because she doesn't seem to love you, not because she won't put out.

I'm young and currently dealing with libido issues (specifically, complete lack of) and this post is making me think that I unconsciously don't love my boyfriend and that if I don't force myself to have sex with him often, he's going to leave me.

By: Ookseer

Ookseer — Wed, 23 May 2007 10:55:57 -0800

I'm adding to the "leave her" chorus because you're young and, while you seem like a very decent and giving guy, you have a couple misconceptions.

Misconception 1:"My best years are almost gone"

I and most of my friends are at least 10 years older than you and we all are having more and better sex now than we've ever had before. Your "fucakble" clock isn't running down, it's just getting started.

Misconception 2: You have a girlfriend.

You have a friend who you happen to lick from time to time. And you frustrate each other, more and more, and she doesn't doesn't show much appreciation to you.

Misconception 3: You are doing both of you a favor by staying together.

Every day you both spend not fucking and crying about it is a day you both should be out fucking other people. This isn't a hypothetical thing, this is real and true: If you weren't wasting your time trying to have sex with her you would be fucking tonight. And she might be too. If you really want to fuck and you care about her then reset the relationship to "Friends" and find someone to be in a more healthy relationship with before it screws you up even more. And if you care for her give her the chance to be with a guy who trips her trigger. It's not you, and that might hurt, but that's part of being a caring adult.

Misconception 4: You think the following is a good thing: "we are best friends, each other's only friends"

Get out and meet other people. You might feel awkward at being mostly a virgin in your 20's. Not so big a deal. Much more common that you know. But you have just say you're essentially friendless. Geez. Now that is something to be ashamed of. Fix it. If you don't know how, there are any number of AskMe threads dealing with it.

By: AV

AV — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:12:59 -0800

trueluk, your post made my day. You, sir, are high-larious.

Pay her extra if she prepares lesson plans

Um, you don't really know what you're talking about, do you?

it really is the size of ship, not the motion of the ocean

...Nope, I guess not.

men are only allowed one virgin per life, so don't blow it

But you get 72 in heaven. Or so I hear.

A big dick equals power equals money equals sex, lots of sex

No, sweetie; money equals power equals lots of sex, big dick or no. (I hear they're letting women run shit now too, and they don't even have dicks!)

Anon: It's not your penis.

By: rdc

rdc — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:23:42 -0800

I tend to agree with everyone else, not that your girlfriend is a demon but that this relationship doesn't seem to be working for either of you.

I just wanted to add that based on your post? I like you. You keep a lid on the self-pity when she's around? You worry that you're standing in the way of her sexual fulfillment? You seem like a cool guy.

By: srrh

srrh — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:36:07 -0800

Lack of sex is the least of your problems with regards to this relationship. Move on.

By: yclipse

yclipse — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:47:16 -0800

My laugh for the day:

>Seriously, you are adorable and we all want to have sex with you now, just to prove it's okay.

By: juv3nal

juv3nal — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:51:50 -0800

Meanwhile I invest a lot of money, emotions, and energy into this relationship, and yet she doesn't seem to feel much for me emotionally either. Never bought me a present, paid me compliment, and hints that I almost certainly have an assigned expiration date.

There's no relationship here to get out of.

By: mckenney

mckenney — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:59:43 -0800

A friend, even a best one, without a satisfying sexual relationship is not a girlfriend, it is a roommate.

Find a girlfriend. Trust me, dude, there is some chick out there who is going to love having sex with you. Don't put yourself through trying to fix this - it's unfixable.

In fact, I am not sure how you can be friends with someone who is so obviously indifferent to your emotional state in the first place. I mean, even in my platonic relationships, my friends actually give a shit about what is upsetting me or going on in my life.

Dump this chick. You don't need it. Life's too fucking short to punish yourself because you feel guilty.

By: conch soup

conch soup — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:59:58 -0800

You = cool
She ` cool

She's not for you- a girl you like, with whom communicate better, will come along quickly if you remember that it's her, not you.

By: ijoyner

ijoyner — Wed, 23 May 2007 12:08:52 -0800

Most young women don't know what they want. They usually want assholes. You don't appear to be an asshole (you noticed she was pained when attempting intercourse, anyone else woulda plowed on through). She's obviously not interested in something that she can easily get, therefore she's not interested in you, you don't pose a challenge and you acting all concerned does not help at all.

Its real tough to find a young woman (notice I say woman, not girl) that is genuine and knows what she wants... good luck!

By: NationalKato

NationalKato — Wed, 23 May 2007 12:09:25 -0800

sian: I'm young and currently dealing with libido issues (specifically, complete lack of) and this post is making me think that I unconsciously don't love my boyfriend and that if I don't force myself to have sex with him often, he's going to leave me.

sian, it's obvious to me it's not just about the libido. This girlfriend isn't holding up much of her end of the 'relationship.' She seems ignorant of Anon's emotions..and quite possibly uninterested in them. There's nothing wrong with having a low or (temporarily) inactive libido...but the other hints Anon offers in the original post shows me that it's a symptom of much bigger issues.

By: winks007

winks007 — Wed, 23 May 2007 12:13:49 -0800

Dude, you really don't have a very high opinion of yourself do you? She's draining you, emotionally, financially and self-esteem wise. Look her in the eyes, look down at your watch and tell her It's time for me to roll-on. Then hit the clubs and ask 100 different women to take you home. 3-7 of those 100 will certainly take you up on your offer, (unless you're freakin quazimodo) and then enjoy. Bottom line, you have got to get out of that relationship then you have got to "GET OUT" to get some.

By: Jess the Mess

Jess the Mess — Wed, 23 May 2007 12:13:54 -0800

How I feel for you. I've been in your shoes before, though the genders were reversed. It's a pretty crummy situaton and you always end up blaming yourself.

I wonder if your girlfriend might be depressed. My ex treated me in the same shabby way when he was depressed, although from what I hear depression plays itself out differently for females. She may just be a selfish jerk.

If you do decide that she's just a good person with a problem you should get counseling or at least read some books on the subject of mismatched libidos. It's going to take effort on both your parts to solve the problem. Also, keep in mind, the effects of birth control can last quite a while after one has stopped taking it.

In any case, it can be repeated enough that none of this is your fault. Take care of yourself first even if that means dumping her and entering the scary world of singledom again.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Wed, 23 May 2007 12:38:32 -0800

First, dump her.
Second, dig out a copy of this programme on BitTorrent.
Thirdly, put yourself out there. You pulled once, you can do it again.
Fourth: sexual profit

By: violetk

violetk — Wed, 23 May 2007 12:49:33 -0800

adding to the "dump her" chorus. not because i think she's a jerk but because for whatever reasonand it's completely irrelevant what those reasons areyou two don't have any chemistry and if there's no chemistry, then you really aren't anything more than friends.

you do seem to be missing the point in focusing solely on finding a gf. from the things that you say about yourself, i would advise you to get some therapy and work on your self esteem issues. there is nothing more attractive than confidence in oneself. ppl also have a sixth sense about desperation and no matter how hot the man, women can smell desperation from across the room and it's definitely a turn-off.

By: londongeezer

londongeezer — Wed, 23 May 2007 13:24:31 -0800

Not your fault. I sympathise. But in the end you've got to make a decision; lose your "best friend" or go without a sex life. I'll tell you something: if she really was your "best friend" maybe she'd have sex with you despite all these problems. Some girls do that, not just because they're horny at that moment but out of generosity kindness sympathy friendliness ruth: because you need it. I would advise you to seek out a girl with a more relaxed attitude and generous spirit. In the meantime, I would even dare advise this: to get over the psychological hurdle of losing your virginity maybe use a prostitute.

By: drstein

drstein — Wed, 23 May 2007 13:31:12 -0800

"She associates it with rape and male oppression. "

Dump her. Don't waste your time with anybody that believes that bullshit.

Pretty much everything else in the post makes it sound like this is a very one-way relationship, you're giving and she is taking and not giving anything back.

You're too young. When you dump her, she'll probably cry and claim that she loves you, etc, but don't fall for the manipulation. She's going to be sad that someone showering her ego with attention has clued in, but don't fall for it.

I think I dated this girl when I was 20. Dumping her was the smartest decision I ever made.

By: CKmtl

CKmtl — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:10:44 -0800

I gave previous comments a mid-depth skim, so if what I have to add has already been added, my apologies.

While the lack of sex and her (supposed) libido issues seem like the major problem to you, the unilateral relationship sounds like the bigger problem to me. If she suddenly became an insatiable sex-fiend and everything else stayed the same, it would still sound a bit off. I mean, "hints that I almost certainly have an assigned expiration date" while you're investing yourself emotionally and financially in the relationship? That's not cool.

Do you love her, or do you love the idea of having a girlfriend? Ditto re: her and having a boyfriend. Dating someone just for the sake of dating someone isn't a great foundation for a fun relationship.

I know you said you have a small social circle, but imagine a close friend was describing his relationship to you. Take all the points you've mentioned here - and the ones you haven't, if you left some out for the sake of length - and imagine your close friend is using them to describe his relationship. Would you advise him to stay with her? I wouldn't.

By: slc228

slc228 — Wed, 23 May 2007 14:29:31 -0800

You sound like a sweet guy, and like many other people I feel for you. However, how is this a relationship? It's you giving, and her taking. No relationship will ever be 50/50; sometimes it's going to be 30/70 or 60/40. But it should never be 0/100. It may be hard, but move on.

And let me say, from experience, talking about how "average" you look is not a turn on. You need to be sure of yourself. Like my phlebotomy teacher said yesterday: "When you are looking for that man who is going to take care of you, are you going to want the man who looks real good and treats you badly, or are you going to want that thug who speaks well and loves you?" ...don't ask why we were on that subject...

By: scody

scody — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:10:42 -0800

Yep, stop characterizing yourself as "average." Not all women expect their partners to look like Brad Pitt (just as not all men expect their partners to look like Angelina Jolie). Gazillions of men and women don't look anything like supermodels, and yet are still in satisfying relationships with people who find them attractive. You no doubt have at least one (and most likely more) features that are great (in addition to the fact that you're fit) -- your eyes? Your smile? Your laugh?

There is infinitely more than goes into being attractive than having had the dumb luck (or plastic surgery) to get perfect cheekbones. Don't sell yourself short! It's time to move on from this unsatisfying relationship to find one with a woman who will find you attractive, who will pay you compliments, and (yes) will happily have sex with you. Such women really do exist. (I promise.)

By: thebrokenmuse

thebrokenmuse — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:15:59 -0800

She doesn't deserve you. Break up with her.

By: Deathalicious

Deathalicious — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:17:40 -0800

It sounds like one or both of you may have caught emo off of the Internet.

But, seriously:

a) unless you've been with loads of women and they tell you that you're fantastic, you might be doing the sex thing wrong

b) you won't get better with this frigid lady. a woman who doesn't even have the decent to try to stay awake while you're tonguing her is not a good sexual match for anyone.

c) You want to google cocky and funny. It doesn't work for everyone. It depends more on your goals. If you're the sort of person who can motivate yourself to work out just to get girls, then warping your personality using cocky+funny techniques is just your ticket

d) or, and I know this is hard to grasp when your libido is raging, you have to let go of the pursuit of women and pursue something else for a while. I didn't really get my romantic etc life together until I sort of let going of having anyone and began focusing on my own development and what I wanted in my life.

By: Aidan Kehoe

Aidan Kehoe — Wed, 23 May 2007 15:31:02 -0800

What scody and others perhaps failed to communicate is that any number of interesting people will settle for someone average, if they dont believe they are settling for someone average. And innumerable people wilfully avoid believing that they are, even when thats the most reasonable conclusion. See also, women who are not particularly interested in the details of how female sexual attaction works.

My experience; you need to be superficially confident, and consistently so. Whether youre actually confident is irrelevant. Also my experience; young women can routinely be mad as a bag of snakes, but they and their friends are very reluctant to admit thatso youre probably not doing anything inconsiderate or idiotic. It only gets better once you have an opportunity to deal with chicas in their late 20s and older. Which you now have, whoohoo.

End it, say you like her but don't have any more interest in continuing this, start shamelessly asking women you find attractive if theyre free some evening this week, and have a comeback prepared if they say yes. Life is too short to wait for people who have no real motivation to solve their personal problems, to solve those problems.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Wed, 23 May 2007 16:08:33 -0800

well you sound as though you want to have sex with her in order to validate yourself, maybe she can sense that, why not drop the sex thing altogether for a bit ?

By: zardoz

zardoz — Wed, 23 May 2007 17:59:38 -0800

she says 'sometimes' she feels attracted to me, if I ask

AWOOGA! AWOOGA! (alarm sounds, btw)
There are lots of pretty clear signs in your post that she's not into you, and this screams the loudest. Tough break, but she's not into you. It sucks, and it can be the worst feeling in the world, but here's the deal: everyone gets rejected at some time or another. Attractive people, too. Non-virgins, too. People who've had lots of experience in relationships or little experience in relationships. Heartbreak is equal-opportunity.

It sounds like you two are in this relationship out of intertia. You've mentioned your low self-esteem, and you're probably scared to death that if you break up with her, you'll never find anyone else. That's what everyone would feel in your situation, low self-esteem or not. It's a very normal thing to be scared of, because--to be blunt--it could be true. Any single person might not find Mr. or Mrs. Right. You have to balance your fear of being single again with the ongoing grind of an unfulfilling relationship, and decide what will be better in the long run.

By: slow graffiti

slow graffiti — Thu, 24 May 2007 00:29:56 -0800

And when you dump this girl, anon, kindly suggest to her that she has issues regarding sex, and they have little to do with the pill and everything to do with messed up attitudes about men and relationships and sex, and that perhaps she needs help from a professional. Equating oral sex with rape is not normal, and most people go through a little low libido at some point, but six months is too long, so either she's making excuses for just not being attracted to you, or she needs a sex therapist.

You, on the other hand, just sound like you need to push yourself a little more regarding socializing. The thing is, you need friends AND you need to get laid, and solving the first problem will give you the social tools to find a girl who wants to bang you like crazy.

By: DerekTheGeek

DerekTheGeek — Thu, 24 May 2007 06:58:43 -0800

I would like to offer some advice that is a bit different from a lot of the advice you have been receiving on this post. Sex, is indeed a wonderful act and extremely enjoyable. It is however intended and most enjoyable within the covenant of marriage. Sex is a lot more than physical attraction and desire. It is a bonding that is far too often underestimated. It will have emotional consequences that you may not be prepared for. When shared between a husband and wife who are committed to each other for life, it is the ultimate act of knowing and sharing. You might consider saving yourself for your wife, when you finally meet her.

By: Carnage Asada

Carnage Asada — Thu, 24 May 2007 09:32:30 -0800

As everyone else has said already, this girl already has so many issues she really just needs to get the subscription.

I was married to a MAN exactly as you described for 8 years and feel your pain.

For whatever reason, she is behaving BEYOND selfish and it is eroding your self-confidence. The reasons were never your fault are no longer your problem, BTW.

Break up with her and give her lots and lots of space (like limited phone contact only, nothing in person) for at least couple of months (indefinitely if it suits you!). Likely she will find someone else (or maybe not) - my point being that short of wearing garlic around your neck, you should do everything necessary to restore your emotional strength - this will involve long periods of seeking out "fun" and YOUR personal interests, whatever your deal happens to be.

please get involved in something like meetup.com or similar - no pressure to get laid, just get out and meet some normal, similarly minded people your age that are all there for the same reason you are.

Blessings to you and most of all, BE WELL!
XOXOXO