Comments on: Good affordable neighbourhood for families in San Francisco/the Valley?

Question: Good affordable neighbourhood for families in San Francisco/the Valley?

GuyZero — Fri, 18 May 2007 07:34:05 -0800

Good affordable neighbourhood for families in San Francisco/the Valley?

So there's a slight chance I might land a job in Silicon Valley (I'm interviewing at a company on Monday). If it happens, I'd be working in Mountain View. While I've visited San Francisco, San Jose, Mountain View, Santa Clara, etc, I have no idea what it's like to live there. So what are nice, affordable neighbourhoods for families (kids are 6 & 8) in the Valley? I have a preference for urban areas, so something in San Francisco proper would be nice but I'm open to other areas too. For example, there are nice areas near "downtown" Palo Alto, but I doubt I could afford it. As for my price range, I'm not really sure, as I can't afford anything anywhere in the bay area compared to what I pay in Toronto. I would guess I would be willing to rent something with 3 bedrooms for under $3000. But I need a little help in setting expectations on pricing as well. Also, while it's not anywhere near Mountain View, is Berkely nice for kids/families?

If anyone knows both the bay area and Toronto, I like near High Park in Toronto currently, which I consider to be pretty much perfect. Finding the High Park of San Francisco would be awesome.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Fri, 18 May 2007 07:35:43 -0800

And further, I wouldn't be moving right away. Part of my decision to accept the job (should I get an offfer) would be based on whether we can find somewhere to live that we like. My wife is hesitant to go all-in on the idea without more data, having never even visited the city. So I'm hoping the hive mind can provide some leads.

By: kendrak

kendrak — Fri, 18 May 2007 07:52:40 -0800

berkeley is nice for families and kids, but the commute to mountain view would really suck. you might want to look for something a bit closer, either down the peninsula or in the southern east bay, like fremont or hayward.

By: anadem

anadem — Fri, 18 May 2007 08:04:22 -0800

I commuted to Mountain View from San Francisco (and then to MV from Santa Cruz) years back, but that commute would be miserable now. If you can afford to live on the peninsula there are plenty of pleasant places where the commute would be much better. Redwood City and San Mateo both always struck me as a nice places to live. I don't know current costs though.

If you're over the other side of the bay (eg Fremont) your commute deteriorates. Also, because of the micro-climates here, exactly where you live determines your climatic environment -- roughly 1 degree hotter per mile from the ocean.

There's a light rail system runs from San Jose up to MV, and also an Amtrack line along the whole peninsula SF to SJ. If I had to commute again I'd make every effort to avoid the drive and use either of those alternatives - $6 gas, anyone?

By: anadem

anadem — Fri, 18 May 2007 08:10:16 -0800

Palo Alto is also very nice (but maybe too pricey?) And bear in mind that every city has good and less good areas -- you really need to come check it out.

Fwfi when we lived in SF and I commuted to MV, I tried Amtrak and it was too slow for that distance; just too many stops, and poor connecting bus service from the train station to my office. Now, I'd take a bike on the train.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Fri, 18 May 2007 08:15:06 -0800

And bear in mind that every city has good and less good areas -- you really need to come check it out.

I agree, but I need a starting point. My reference neighbourhood in Toronto is about 4 sq miles. I'm looking for the perfect 4 sq miles somewhere in the bay area. Yes, I need help. On many levels.

By: COD

COD — Fri, 18 May 2007 08:28:32 -0800

If you are looking to buy a home maybe use Zillow or another real estate site to at least get an idea of what $3000 a month will buy you in the area? Affordability may narrow your options quickly. For that matter, pick a real estate agent in that area off the web and email them. They'll be happy to provide some preliminary guidance in hopes of selling you a home if you move there.

For reference I was out there (Sunnyvale) about a month ago and we were driving through a neighborhood I flat out would not want to live in. Houses on a major 4 lane very busy road, houses built on top of each other, and they were all circa 1950s construction. The average sale price in that area was about $800K (US) for a 3 bedroom, 1500 square foot house.

By: Jeff Howard

Jeff Howard — Fri, 18 May 2007 08:35:12 -0800

When I moved out to the Bay Area I used Craigslist to get an idea of apartment pricing. You can search San Francisco, South Bay, East Bay, North Bay and the Peninsula, and individual neighborhoods within those areas.

By: otherwordlyglow

otherwordlyglow — Fri, 18 May 2007 08:57:36 -0800

Family-friendly in San Francisco, to me, means Noe Valley, Bernal Heights, Laurel Heights, the Sunset, West Portal, and the Richmond districts. I'm currently in the market for a 2-bedroom rental under $2500 and there are some places but they aren't all that great. And unfortunayely, the publis school system in the city is kinda sucky. There are some good schools but it's extremely competitive so if you're living in San Francisco, I wouldn't count on the public schools.

I would guess that for $3000 you could get something with 3-br. But yeah, Mountain View, Burlingame, San Mateo, Redwood City, those seem like good options, too.

By: treepour

treepour — Fri, 18 May 2007 09:18:08 -0800

I'm afraid I can't recommend a neighborhood, but I do want to weigh in on the side of not doing the daily SF-San Jose commute. If you're already used to commuting and don't mind it, then go for it -- but if you're not used to it and aren't sure whether you'll mind, I suspect you'll be happier living closer to work. Additionally, if you're looking for safety, SF is like any other dense city -- some neighborhoods are better than others, but we're all packed in here pretty tightly, so I would venture there's still a higher crime risk in living anywhere in SF than there would be in the South Bay.

By: handful of rain

handful of rain — Fri, 18 May 2007 09:19:52 -0800

Second everyone who warns you about a horrible driving commute between the city/east bay and Silicon Valley. Especially as you have young children, do you really want to spend two or more hours a day on the road?

If live in the city or any place along the peninsula and don't want to drive, Caltrain can work well, and they now have express trains that can get you between the city and San Jose in under an hour. Many companies have shuttles that meet the train, and biking is always an option (though during the rainy winters it can be less pleasant). I did a commute to the city by train for about six months and it wasn't bad - but if you have to work late it can be problematic as the express trains stop running after the evening commute.

FWIW, I live in San Mateo in a two-bedroom detached duplex for a little under $2500 a month. It's a cute house with a nice yard and a patio in a pretty good part of town (various shops and things very near by). We don't have kids, but there seem to be a lot around. We live in San Mateo primarily because it gives us a 5-minute commute to work, but it's not a bad place - it's actually a little yuppified for our tastes. I'd sooner live someplace like Berkeley, but I refuse to do that commute :)

By: jamaro

jamaro — Fri, 18 May 2007 09:24:37 -0800

For reference I was out there (Sunnyvale) about a month ago and we were driving through a neighborhood I flat out would not want to live in. Houses on a major 4 lane very busy road, houses built on top of each other, and they were all circa 1950s construction. The average sale price in that area was about $800K (US) for a 3 bedroom, 1500 square foot house.

The reason for why some in this area would want to live there despite the cost is because of Sunnyvale's very good public schools.

SF, the Peninsula, and the South Bay are served by dozens of school districts. They are not equally funded or efficiently managed and the learning experience your children will have will be dramatically different from one school to another and from district to district.

This site can help narrow down your selection based on which schools, realtors or sites such as this one will tell you which school occupants of a particular address would go to.

By: ambrosia

ambrosia — Fri, 18 May 2007 09:56:12 -0800

We just moved from Berkeley to the peninsula because the commute between Berkeley and Mountain View was untenable- at peak commuting times, it can be nearly two hours in each direction, to cover a distance of roughly 50 miles. Palo Alto is likely out of your price range- when we were looking for rental housing, the cheapest 3 bedroom house we saw there was $3,800/month and it was in a pretty sorry state. Everything else started at $5k/month and went up from there.

Echoing others, Craig's List is your best bet to get a sense of what's available and what things cost. Caltrain has a pretty decent commuter rail system- I'd try to make that work if I were you.

I haven't seen anyone else warn you off, so I will: don't even consider anything in East Palo Alto. If the rising tide of the dot-com boom didn't lift it up then, nothing will.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 18 May 2007 10:28:26 -0800

Berkeley is great for kids, but yeah, the commute would be intense. If I lived there and worked in MV, I'd probably do BART to Caltrain. Oakland might shorten your commute- Piedmont has it's own (good) school district. Lake Merritt area is pretty nice, a little cheaper to rent- but public schools are iffy. On the Peninsula, I'd look at San Mateo, Downtown Mtn View, or Downtown San Jose. Other East Bay choices: San Leandro (some lovely neighborhoods there, don't know about schools) or Hayward, though you would have to deal with the San Mateo bridge commute. I would avoid Fremont, Milpitas, outlying areas of San Jose for their soulless suburban tediousness (I prefer a bit more urban), and East Palo Alto for the crime.

By: joeblough

joeblough — Fri, 18 May 2007 11:25:13 -0800

yeah i live in rockridge and commute to santa clara every day. if i didnt have the prius with carpool stickers, i'd be in big trouble. as it stands, if i leave at 8am i can be in santa clara at 9am, but if i miss the carpool hours, forget it.

plus, you don't want to move to rockridge... crime is absolutely out of control. we're averaging one daylight-hours armed assault every week for the last 6 weeks...

EPA is much improved but its still pretty bad. whenever there is a crime in palo alto, the cops set up roadblocks and check every single car returning to EPA for suspects.

By: joeblough

joeblough — Fri, 18 May 2007 11:27:43 -0800

also, i havent been in the market for a long time, but i was under the impression that rents have eased a bit. then again things are picking up again economy-wise so perhaps rents are back up.

By: kelseyq

kelseyq — Fri, 18 May 2007 12:00:42 -0800

as someone who grew up in san francisco proper and went to high school with a lot of kids from the surrounding towns & suburbs, i am eternally grateful that i did not grow up somewhere in the peninsula. those kids were indistinguishable, in life experience/worldview/outlook, from any other suburban kids. what's the point of living in one of the greatest urban centers in the world if you don't take advantage of any of the culture? berkeley is another story (a nicer one, i think.)

in the city itself some often overlooked neighborhoods (cheaper, diverse, more family oriented) are glen park, cayuga terrace/excelsior/mission terrace/outer mission, ingleside, and west portal. (these are all distinct neighborhoods in the southeast corner of the city, usually lumped together.) i'm especially fond of the excelsior and would highly recommend checking it out. great cheap eats, lots of parks, very walkable.

By: otherwordlyglow

otherwordlyglow — Fri, 18 May 2007 12:16:42 -0800

oh right, I forgot Glen Park, which is odd, because it's my favorite neighborhood, but it's not all that affordable lately. But then nowhere really is around here. And yeah, I've been checking out the Excelsior recently and think it may be a good option for me, but I don't have kids so the schools issue doesn't come into play.

By: MikeKD

MikeKD — Fri, 18 May 2007 12:59:04 -0800

As for the commute, the downtown Mountain View (Castro St.) train station is one of Caltrain's (aka Amtrak) baby bullet (really, just a limited-stop train) stops. SF to MV would be about 45 minutes (Caltrain's timetable).

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Fri, 18 May 2007 13:07:36 -0800

Uh, on the point of the commute, I hate to drop names, but I have to ask: anyone live in San Francisco and take the Google shuttle? Any better than the Caltrain, aside from the price?

By: joeblough

joeblough — Fri, 18 May 2007 16:12:07 -0800

a friend of mine lives in SF (up by UCSF) and turned down several offers from google until the shuttle started up, and then he immediately started working there.

he doesnt have a driver's license, so he would have had to take the caltrain. i have to assume that the shuttle is more convenient for him than caltrain, or he would have been working for them long ago.

also, they have gizmos on the shuttle with cellular data radios on one end and wifi on the other, so people can use the web while the shuttle is on the road.

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Fri, 18 May 2007 21:59:01 -0800

I don't have much advice for you, but I've lived in Toronto (Parkdale), Berkeley, and Mt. View/Sunnyvale, and loved them all.

By: alexei

alexei — Sun, 18 May 2008 00:44:23 -0800

Public schools in SF aren't that bad. Growing up in the Richmond I (and siblings) went to George Peabody Elementary and Presidio Middle, both quite good, and Lowell High, which is the district magnet school and is competitive, but not ridiculously so, I think.