Where should we live in Honolulu?
May 8, 2007 12:28 AM Subscribe
What can you tell me about Honolulu neighborhoods?
In January, I posted a question to Ask Metafilter to help my girlfriend and I decide if we were going to move to Honolulu. We've decided to go for it! Now, we're trying to figure out where exactly in Honolulu would be the best place for us to live. The answers to our first question were so helpful that I thought I'd return to Ask Mefi for more advice.
My girlfriend will be working in Upper Manoa, right by the Manoa Marketplace. Ideally, we want to live somewhere that has public transportation that will get her there, although it isn't a make-or-break litmus test. (I will be working from home.)
We're both artsy, urban types. Being within walking distance of lots of interesting things to do would be ideal. Money is, of course, an issue, but we've both lived in Boston so we won't collapse into sobbing hysterics at rents that would be considered insane in many places. Safety is also, of course, an issue, but we're not paranoid about living near other humans.
I liked Chinatown when we briefly visited, and was wondering about it (and the neighborhoods maybe north of it if it turned out to be too expensive right there.) My girlfriend has said she's heard potentially good things about Kaimuki. Can you tell us anything about those, or any other neighborhoods you think we might be interested in? Public transportation, rents, safety, interesting area to be in, anything else?
In January, I posted a question to Ask Metafilter to help my girlfriend and I decide if we were going to move to Honolulu. We've decided to go for it! Now, we're trying to figure out where exactly in Honolulu would be the best place for us to live. The answers to our first question were so helpful that I thought I'd return to Ask Mefi for more advice.
My girlfriend will be working in Upper Manoa, right by the Manoa Marketplace. Ideally, we want to live somewhere that has public transportation that will get her there, although it isn't a make-or-break litmus test. (I will be working from home.)
We're both artsy, urban types. Being within walking distance of lots of interesting things to do would be ideal. Money is, of course, an issue, but we've both lived in Boston so we won't collapse into sobbing hysterics at rents that would be considered insane in many places. Safety is also, of course, an issue, but we're not paranoid about living near other humans.
I liked Chinatown when we briefly visited, and was wondering about it (and the neighborhoods maybe north of it if it turned out to be too expensive right there.) My girlfriend has said she's heard potentially good things about Kaimuki. Can you tell us anything about those, or any other neighborhoods you think we might be interested in? Public transportation, rents, safety, interesting area to be in, anything else?
I can't add too much to what melorama wrote, but I actually would like to live in the Kaimuki area.
Honolulu lacks the coffee-shop vibe that other cities have, and Coffee Talk on Waialae (sorry, couldn't find a good link) has the feeling you can sit down, hang out, free wi-fi, good coffee, and pretty good food.
There are a bunch of new hipster restaurants around there, some of which are good (like 12th Ave Grill) and some which to me are trying to hard (like Town ....though most people love it). The Rock House on 9th and Waialae has a good karaoke list!
Finding a place to live around there can be difficult though. If you live back in one of the valleys (which I would like to do) you may find that transportation problem that melorama wrote of...but it's beautiful (though parts can be a little sketchy). But it is all bike-able! Waialae is a gradual hill but I know a bunch of people who live out there and have great butt muscles! If you have a car, living up Wilhelmina has great views. There aren't many condo/apartment type things out there. Most likely you'll find places like mother-in-law apartments or you can rent the whole house and get roomies.
Mr. Lil' Ears and I live just up from Chinatown. It's close enough that it takes about 10-15 minutes to walk down to First Friday , to Murphy's for some shuffle board or O'Tooles if you are a smoker who wants a beer, or have a glass of wine and take in some jazz at The Dragon Upstairs...but still far enough away that you can leave Chinatown, which I would probably like to do. Saturdays are packed with produce and meat shoppers, and driving and parking anywhere around there is always a nightmare.
If you live up Nuuanu (mauka --or mountain side/north-- of chinatown), there is TheBus #4 that takes you to UH (though I'm not sure which one will take you up farther into Manoa).
Other places to live which are centrally located for you with easy access to Manoa would be Manoa itself (EXPENSIVE, but so beautiful with the valley walls and close walks to great hikes to the waterfalls, bamboo forests, etc)...but not so artsy. Makiki area- which has good prices, lots of buses, and VERY not artsy but easy enough to get places. Mo'ili'ili which is makai (oceanside/south) of campus...which is very univerisity student-y, cheap, and not so nice, but VERY centrally located.
Okay, this is long enough. You can email me if you have more questions!
posted by lil' ears at 12:43 PM on May 8, 2007
Honolulu lacks the coffee-shop vibe that other cities have, and Coffee Talk on Waialae (sorry, couldn't find a good link) has the feeling you can sit down, hang out, free wi-fi, good coffee, and pretty good food.
There are a bunch of new hipster restaurants around there, some of which are good (like 12th Ave Grill) and some which to me are trying to hard (like Town ....though most people love it). The Rock House on 9th and Waialae has a good karaoke list!
Finding a place to live around there can be difficult though. If you live back in one of the valleys (which I would like to do) you may find that transportation problem that melorama wrote of...but it's beautiful (though parts can be a little sketchy). But it is all bike-able! Waialae is a gradual hill but I know a bunch of people who live out there and have great butt muscles! If you have a car, living up Wilhelmina has great views. There aren't many condo/apartment type things out there. Most likely you'll find places like mother-in-law apartments or you can rent the whole house and get roomies.
Mr. Lil' Ears and I live just up from Chinatown. It's close enough that it takes about 10-15 minutes to walk down to First Friday , to Murphy's for some shuffle board or O'Tooles if you are a smoker who wants a beer, or have a glass of wine and take in some jazz at The Dragon Upstairs...but still far enough away that you can leave Chinatown, which I would probably like to do. Saturdays are packed with produce and meat shoppers, and driving and parking anywhere around there is always a nightmare.
If you live up Nuuanu (mauka --or mountain side/north-- of chinatown), there is TheBus #4 that takes you to UH (though I'm not sure which one will take you up farther into Manoa).
Other places to live which are centrally located for you with easy access to Manoa would be Manoa itself (EXPENSIVE, but so beautiful with the valley walls and close walks to great hikes to the waterfalls, bamboo forests, etc)...but not so artsy. Makiki area- which has good prices, lots of buses, and VERY not artsy but easy enough to get places. Mo'ili'ili which is makai (oceanside/south) of campus...which is very univerisity student-y, cheap, and not so nice, but VERY centrally located.
Okay, this is long enough. You can email me if you have more questions!
posted by lil' ears at 12:43 PM on May 8, 2007
I'm not sure whether or not you are planning on staying there long term, but if you ever have children that you plan on raising in Hawaii, go private school. I have a friend who's parents moved her to Hawaii and she was singled out every day because of her race (caucasian.)
Other than that, Hawaii is beautiful and I lived there on and off for three years, though mainly in Maui and Kauii.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 12:54 PM on May 8, 2007
Other than that, Hawaii is beautiful and I lived there on and off for three years, though mainly in Maui and Kauii.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 12:54 PM on May 8, 2007
I'm not sure whether or not you are planning on staying there long term, but if you ever have children that you plan on raising in Hawaii, go private school. I have a friend who's parents moved her to Hawaii and she was singled out every day because of her race (caucasian.)
Yeah, put them in private school so they can be further ostracized and stigmatized by the very people who supposedly "singled her out because of her race".
Sorry to be so blunt, thebrokenmuse, but what you said is completely ignorant bullshit. I've lived here all my life, went to public schools (Kailua High School, one of the more highly integrated schools on the island), and while it's true that some "haoles" get picked on more than the average local kid would, as a general rule, you only really get "singled out" if you *act* like a person who would typically enroll in a private school in order to avoid the "locals".
The majority of the people I hung out with in highschool were Caucasian, and I can't think of a single one of them who had problems being "singled out" by the "mokes" on a regular basis. And this was at a school which was attended by a very large number of kids from Waimanalo--one of the most (unjustifiably) notorious "rough" areas of Oahu. And my friends were the intellectual kids, too, so you'd think they'd doubly become the subject of constant bullying and whatnot, but for the most part, they weren't.
I just saw the previous post kyra referred to, and I wholeheartedly agree with the commenters there who back up my assertion that claims of endemic hatred and violence towards caucasians are grossly exaggerated. If you ACT like the locals are to be feared, less cultured, stupid or worthy of condescension, then, yes, you will get your ass kicked on a regular basis (or at least strongly despised by most locals–including longtime "haole" residents).
The type of attitude which automatically views private schooling as a valid way to avoid what they perceive to be less-than-civilized locals is precisely the attitude which causes you to become disliked and "singled out". If you want to segregate yourself and your children from the people and culture of Hawaii, then what's the point of coming here?
You really should "go back to where you came from" if you have that kind of attitude.
posted by melorama at 4:25 PM on May 8, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, put them in private school so they can be further ostracized and stigmatized by the very people who supposedly "singled her out because of her race".
Sorry to be so blunt, thebrokenmuse, but what you said is completely ignorant bullshit. I've lived here all my life, went to public schools (Kailua High School, one of the more highly integrated schools on the island), and while it's true that some "haoles" get picked on more than the average local kid would, as a general rule, you only really get "singled out" if you *act* like a person who would typically enroll in a private school in order to avoid the "locals".
The majority of the people I hung out with in highschool were Caucasian, and I can't think of a single one of them who had problems being "singled out" by the "mokes" on a regular basis. And this was at a school which was attended by a very large number of kids from Waimanalo--one of the most (unjustifiably) notorious "rough" areas of Oahu. And my friends were the intellectual kids, too, so you'd think they'd doubly become the subject of constant bullying and whatnot, but for the most part, they weren't.
I just saw the previous post kyra referred to, and I wholeheartedly agree with the commenters there who back up my assertion that claims of endemic hatred and violence towards caucasians are grossly exaggerated. If you ACT like the locals are to be feared, less cultured, stupid or worthy of condescension, then, yes, you will get your ass kicked on a regular basis (or at least strongly despised by most locals–including longtime "haole" residents).
The type of attitude which automatically views private schooling as a valid way to avoid what they perceive to be less-than-civilized locals is precisely the attitude which causes you to become disliked and "singled out". If you want to segregate yourself and your children from the people and culture of Hawaii, then what's the point of coming here?
You really should "go back to where you came from" if you have that kind of attitude.
posted by melorama at 4:25 PM on May 8, 2007 [1 favorite]
Well, as a visiting haole (and malahini) who taught for several years at one of the prominent private schools in Hawaii (which is located in Manoa), I think I can offer an intermediate perspective.
To echo melorama's response--without so much anger--I can certainly confirm that I didn't find anti-caucasian bigotry to be a big factor at all. The vast, vast majority of folks who love in Hawaii--Polynesian, Asian, Caucasian or whatever--totally buy into a very healthy, positive approach to race. There definitely are isolated, ugly incidents, like the haole couple who were beaten senseless in a parking lot a few months ago, but it would be absolutely wrong to extrapolate that into a broad racial conflict.
That being said, race is also a constant, open topic of conversation there. For all the right reasons, really. There are so many different ethnic groups, and they're all so open about their heritage, and people are all so willing to mix and match that you kind of have to keep track just to understand what's going on.
The pidgin that many islanders speak is a perfect example of that--the first week I was teaching, one of my kids told me "Hey, I need fi-fo-fo". Turns out that in Japanglish, "go potty" is "go shi-shi". At the same time, the Japanese word "go" is "5", and "shi" is "4". Say "5-4-4" with a pidgin accent, and you get "fi fo fo".
That kind of twist and turn is typical of the way that Hawaiian culture has blended different cultures. People are very conscious of that, and can painstakingly identify which traditions and words are Filipino, or Chinese, or whatever. They just take it as a given.
All those things aside, though, when we I first lived there, I lived on Keeaumoku St, which was a good distance from the Manoa area, and later lived right near the Alai Wai canal (since the school's right there). My now-wife--who was a fellow teacher--lived in the Punchbowl and loved it.
The main thing I'd say is that _everyone_ I knew eventually just bought a cheap used car to get around. The public transit in Honolulu is OK, but not great, and you just have a ton more flexibility if you've got a $1000 beater you drive around. The salt air's tough on older cars, but you can still find a lot of 15-year old Corollas with 150K miles on them, that'll get you around just fine. We were all making less than $20K/yr as first-year teachers, and it was totally affordable.
Good luck, though, and enjoy it. Honolulu's _awesome_.
posted by LairBob at 11:22 PM on May 8, 2007 [1 favorite]
To echo melorama's response--without so much anger--I can certainly confirm that I didn't find anti-caucasian bigotry to be a big factor at all. The vast, vast majority of folks who love in Hawaii--Polynesian, Asian, Caucasian or whatever--totally buy into a very healthy, positive approach to race. There definitely are isolated, ugly incidents, like the haole couple who were beaten senseless in a parking lot a few months ago, but it would be absolutely wrong to extrapolate that into a broad racial conflict.
That being said, race is also a constant, open topic of conversation there. For all the right reasons, really. There are so many different ethnic groups, and they're all so open about their heritage, and people are all so willing to mix and match that you kind of have to keep track just to understand what's going on.
The pidgin that many islanders speak is a perfect example of that--the first week I was teaching, one of my kids told me "Hey, I need fi-fo-fo". Turns out that in Japanglish, "go potty" is "go shi-shi". At the same time, the Japanese word "go" is "5", and "shi" is "4". Say "5-4-4" with a pidgin accent, and you get "fi fo fo".
That kind of twist and turn is typical of the way that Hawaiian culture has blended different cultures. People are very conscious of that, and can painstakingly identify which traditions and words are Filipino, or Chinese, or whatever. They just take it as a given.
All those things aside, though, when we I first lived there, I lived on Keeaumoku St, which was a good distance from the Manoa area, and later lived right near the Alai Wai canal (since the school's right there). My now-wife--who was a fellow teacher--lived in the Punchbowl and loved it.
The main thing I'd say is that _everyone_ I knew eventually just bought a cheap used car to get around. The public transit in Honolulu is OK, but not great, and you just have a ton more flexibility if you've got a $1000 beater you drive around. The salt air's tough on older cars, but you can still find a lot of 15-year old Corollas with 150K miles on them, that'll get you around just fine. We were all making less than $20K/yr as first-year teachers, and it was totally affordable.
Good luck, though, and enjoy it. Honolulu's _awesome_.
posted by LairBob at 11:22 PM on May 8, 2007 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
You said money is an issue, but you didn't mention what your tolerances are, as far as housing is concerned. Are you opposed/okay with living in walk-ups? Cinderblock walls? Roommates? High-rises? Duplexes?
Speaking from my own personal experience, I would try and find a place in the Pauoa Valley/Punchbowl area. I rented a beautiful 3-bedroom place with roomates a few years ago (for $1350), on the upper floor of a duplex situated on the side of the stunningly beautiful Puowaina Crater. Here's a view from our lanai, looking out into Pauoa Valley. This neighborhood isn't considered a prime area to live in, but it's really underrated, because:
a) it's within walking distance to Downtown Honolulu & the rich arts scene in Chinatown. Not to mention the availability of pretty much every single bus line you'd need to get anywhere else on the island.
b) Close to The Contemporary Museum (not exactly walking distance, unless you like walking uphill for a couple of miles)
c) Close to the Honolulu Academy of Arts, which also hosts ARTafterDARK, which is something which is definitely right up your alley (and also walking distance, depending on which side of Punchbowl you end up living on.
d) Close to Manoa Valley. There is a bus that runs through Pauoa Valley which will actually drop you off right in front of Manoa Marketplace (the #6), although it unfortunately takes the long way there (through Downtown Honolulu and Ala Moana Center). There is a #15 shuttle that takes you around the back side of Punchbowl, but you'd need to walk a few blocks in order to transfer to the #6 in Makiki (I don't know why they don't just divert the #15 just a bit, enough to meet up with the #6 line...TheBus really makes some stupid routing decisions sometimes).
If you don't plan on buying a car, you could very easily bike it into Manoa Valley from Pauoa/Punchbowl (It wouldn't take you more than 10-15 minutes)
e) Easy access to some of the most amazing hiking trails you'll ever experience
Kaimuki is alright. It's not my cup of tea (because it has rather lackluster bus service compared to other areas of the island), but it has become quite trendy among "artsy" types as of late. And there are lots of neat little shops and fantastic, casual restaurants. I just wouldn't want to live there unless I owned a car.
As an aside, you say you're "arty", but I really hope you're not big indie rock/music fans, because shows by good touring bands are practically nonexistent here. Last decent show that I can remember was Sigur Ros and Takako Minekawa last year, and Deerhoof and Shellac the year before. There is a fairly thriving hiphop and DJ scene though, if you're into that kind of thing (I'm not). Be prepared to complain about the Honolulu music scene if you're used to what's available in Boston.
Aloha and good luck with your move!
posted by melorama at 2:23 AM on May 8, 2007 [1 favorite]