alternatives to pricey vintage gear?
April 26, 2007 9:09 PM Subscribe
Want a good-to-real-good-quality guitar and amp and the vintage stuff is just stupidly overpriced...
The folks I play with are all supergeeked on good vintage gear and so was I till I started looking at buying some of my own. I, too, love the way good old guitars play and sound, but I don't have that much money. I will NEVER have that much money (neither do the bandmates but they managed to buy stuff a few years back and hang onto it). Now I want to avoid old fenders/old gibsons just because the whole market is so aggravating.
I've been thinking PRS (cheaper ones) and Mesa Boogie (combo). Am I right? Any testimonials on behalf of decently priced, reliable stuff would be appreciated.
The folks I play with are all supergeeked on good vintage gear and so was I till I started looking at buying some of my own. I, too, love the way good old guitars play and sound, but I don't have that much money. I will NEVER have that much money (neither do the bandmates but they managed to buy stuff a few years back and hang onto it). Now I want to avoid old fenders/old gibsons just because the whole market is so aggravating.
I've been thinking PRS (cheaper ones) and Mesa Boogie (combo). Am I right? Any testimonials on behalf of decently priced, reliable stuff would be appreciated.
I'll say that the Vox AC30 CC is a great sounding guitar amp, it doesn't sound like a mesa, its not supposed to. But it sounds like the classic and had better features.
posted by magikker at 9:50 PM on April 26, 2007
posted by magikker at 9:50 PM on April 26, 2007
I should mention that the vox AC 30 CC is only 1000 new... which means that it or the used version ought to be in your price range if you are considering anything of mesa's
posted by magikker at 10:04 PM on April 26, 2007
posted by magikker at 10:04 PM on April 26, 2007
The US made Fender reissue stuff is excellent. I have a Jazzmaster which is indistinguishable from the late 60s version of the same thing with your eyes closed.
I also like the slightly off-vintage Fender amps, eg silverface twin reverb. No-one will look at you snotty for having one of these. It's all great stuff and totally affordable.
posted by unSane at 10:04 PM on April 26, 2007
I also like the slightly off-vintage Fender amps, eg silverface twin reverb. No-one will look at you snotty for having one of these. It's all great stuff and totally affordable.
posted by unSane at 10:04 PM on April 26, 2007
Well, get a tube amp.
I second the Fender re-issues.
I got a Blues Deluxe ten years ago for around $700 and I love love love it.
I'm kind of the re-issue guy because I also got a Gretsch DuoJet the same year.
Go to your local store and play a bunch of stuff before you decide, that's the only way to tell if you'll like it.
posted by chococat at 10:19 PM on April 26, 2007
I second the Fender re-issues.
I got a Blues Deluxe ten years ago for around $700 and I love love love it.
I'm kind of the re-issue guy because I also got a Gretsch DuoJet the same year.
Go to your local store and play a bunch of stuff before you decide, that's the only way to tell if you'll like it.
posted by chococat at 10:19 PM on April 26, 2007
I am saving up for the reissue jazzmaster right now.. My bass is a reissue that I got used, which put it in the 750 price range, and worth every penny.. The reissue idea on the fender stuff is great.
posted by magikker at 10:38 PM on April 26, 2007
posted by magikker at 10:38 PM on April 26, 2007
The new Mesa Boogie express is getting rave reviews. Guitars are too personal a thing for me to offer a recommendation but I will say you don't have to spend much money these days for a great playing guitar.
posted by oh pollo! at 1:39 AM on April 27, 2007
posted by oh pollo! at 1:39 AM on April 27, 2007
I ordinarily hate the nasal tone of most Marshalls, but I bought a reissue JCM 800 2203 a while back and it's something that always seems to work its way into my recording and live set up. It really offers some really nice tones. One of these can be had relatively cheaply on eBay (under $1,000).
Boogies are just okay in my opinion, and you can get some decent tones from them, but only after hours upon hours of fiddling with the knobs. They don't sound great "out of the box".
Soldano is making a few lower priced amps (Avenger, Astroverb, Hot Rod 50, etc.) these days that do, however, sound great out of the box. I'd encourage you to check them out.
As for axes... that's like asking me to pick a girlfriend for you. Can't do it/won't do it. ;-)
posted by psmealey at 4:06 AM on April 27, 2007
Boogies are just okay in my opinion, and you can get some decent tones from them, but only after hours upon hours of fiddling with the knobs. They don't sound great "out of the box".
Soldano is making a few lower priced amps (Avenger, Astroverb, Hot Rod 50, etc.) these days that do, however, sound great out of the box. I'd encourage you to check them out.
As for axes... that's like asking me to pick a girlfriend for you. Can't do it/won't do it. ;-)
posted by psmealey at 4:06 AM on April 27, 2007
Btw, if you do go the Fender Amp route (there are a few models I can recommend) avoid the Hot Rod DeVille. It's tempting because it's reasonably inexpensive, and sounds great in the store, but two former bandmates of mine had them, and they both sounded like ass at peformance volume.
posted by psmealey at 4:08 AM on April 27, 2007
posted by psmealey at 4:08 AM on April 27, 2007
I think you are spot on with a PRS SE guitar and a used Mesa combo. I have a Mesa DC-5 which is discontinued (quite a while ago) and is a bargain secondhand. I own mostly US PRS guitars but I did have a SE Soapbar I at one point which had excellent build quality and value for money.
posted by SpacemanRed at 5:23 AM on April 27, 2007
posted by SpacemanRed at 5:23 AM on April 27, 2007
The spouse is a gearhead, and admittedly "supergeeked on good vintage gear," but he's also a dealer and a weekend luthier, and know lots about the market. He says:
You never said what type of music or sound you're looking for but for the best combination of value and quality in an amp that can go from country to rock, I'd get a Silverface Deluxe Reverb (made after CBS bought them) and have a good reputable amp tech to mod the circuit to Blackface specs. The Silverface Deluxe Reverbs are point to point and the changes that CBS made are easily changed to the pre-CBS specs that everybody raves about.
You can find good condition Silverface Deluxe Reverbs in the same price ballpark as a new Deluxe Reverb Reissue if you look hard enough and with the point to point circuit instead of the printed circuit board found in the reissue, you'll be able to maintain the PTP amp literally for years much easier and cheaper than any amp with a PCB.
As for guitars, I'd recommend the Korean made Epiphone line of Les Pauls and such and the Made In Mexico '50's and '60's reissues of Teles and Strats. Both are easily found used in great condition for a good price.
To maximize the Epiphone's potential, I'd plan on having the a competent guitar repairman/luthier swap the pots and switches for full-size CTS & Switchcraft stuff and replace the pickups with whatever sounds good to your ear. Seymour Duncan has a HUGE line of replacement pickups that will give you whatever sound you're looking for. I rebuilt a buddy's Epiphone Les Paul Black Beauty by changing out the pickups, pots & switches and it sounds like a new guitar - he likes it as much as his $2,000 PRS. The pots and switches on the MIM Teles and Strats are better quality but the pickups aren't anything to write home about - I'd swap them out. There are literally hundreds of boutique pickup makers out there. It's the easiest and cheapest way to get a new or better sound out of your guitar. To name a few there's Lindy Fralin, Van Zandt, Rio Grande, Jason Lollar, Curtis Novak, Dimarzio, Seymour Duncan, Lace Sensor, Jim Wagner/WCR and lots more that I just can't think of.
Lastly, unless you've got lots of experience reading schematics and repairing amps, have a qualified amp repairman do the amp work. There are capacitors in there that store LETHAL voltages (in excess of 400 volts) that can KILL. Also I'd have a qualified guitar repairman/luthier do at least a set-up on whatever guitar you get - it will make in much more playable, have the intonation set correctly and everything else that can make playing a hassle.
(I don't know what a word of this means, but feel free to email me if you'd like to get in touch with him directly.)
posted by pineapple at 7:16 AM on April 27, 2007
You never said what type of music or sound you're looking for but for the best combination of value and quality in an amp that can go from country to rock, I'd get a Silverface Deluxe Reverb (made after CBS bought them) and have a good reputable amp tech to mod the circuit to Blackface specs. The Silverface Deluxe Reverbs are point to point and the changes that CBS made are easily changed to the pre-CBS specs that everybody raves about.
You can find good condition Silverface Deluxe Reverbs in the same price ballpark as a new Deluxe Reverb Reissue if you look hard enough and with the point to point circuit instead of the printed circuit board found in the reissue, you'll be able to maintain the PTP amp literally for years much easier and cheaper than any amp with a PCB.
As for guitars, I'd recommend the Korean made Epiphone line of Les Pauls and such and the Made In Mexico '50's and '60's reissues of Teles and Strats. Both are easily found used in great condition for a good price.
To maximize the Epiphone's potential, I'd plan on having the a competent guitar repairman/luthier swap the pots and switches for full-size CTS & Switchcraft stuff and replace the pickups with whatever sounds good to your ear. Seymour Duncan has a HUGE line of replacement pickups that will give you whatever sound you're looking for. I rebuilt a buddy's Epiphone Les Paul Black Beauty by changing out the pickups, pots & switches and it sounds like a new guitar - he likes it as much as his $2,000 PRS. The pots and switches on the MIM Teles and Strats are better quality but the pickups aren't anything to write home about - I'd swap them out. There are literally hundreds of boutique pickup makers out there. It's the easiest and cheapest way to get a new or better sound out of your guitar. To name a few there's Lindy Fralin, Van Zandt, Rio Grande, Jason Lollar, Curtis Novak, Dimarzio, Seymour Duncan, Lace Sensor, Jim Wagner/WCR and lots more that I just can't think of.
Lastly, unless you've got lots of experience reading schematics and repairing amps, have a qualified amp repairman do the amp work. There are capacitors in there that store LETHAL voltages (in excess of 400 volts) that can KILL. Also I'd have a qualified guitar repairman/luthier do at least a set-up on whatever guitar you get - it will make in much more playable, have the intonation set correctly and everything else that can make playing a hassle.
(I don't know what a word of this means, but feel free to email me if you'd like to get in touch with him directly.)
posted by pineapple at 7:16 AM on April 27, 2007
While it is a little late to be asking, what is your actual price-point?
posted by mzurer at 8:12 AM on April 27, 2007
posted by mzurer at 8:12 AM on April 27, 2007
I'm a HUGE fan of PRS + Mesa Boogie, it's a great combination (witness Santana). For many years, I played a modded PRS Artist II with a re-tubed Mesa Boogie Mark IV, and it kicked serious butt.
But even within the PRS+MB univierse, there are an awful lot of variations and options to choose from. You need to give more detail about what kind of sound you're looking for.
Beyond sound, be sure to get a guitar that's comfortable for you to play. Only you can determing that, and you have to pick up the instrument and play for some time it to evaluate this.
posted by mikeand1 at 8:55 AM on April 27, 2007
But even within the PRS+MB univierse, there are an awful lot of variations and options to choose from. You need to give more detail about what kind of sound you're looking for.
Beyond sound, be sure to get a guitar that's comfortable for you to play. Only you can determing that, and you have to pick up the instrument and play for some time it to evaluate this.
posted by mikeand1 at 8:55 AM on April 27, 2007
the mesa boogie F series amps was recently discontinued (replaced with the express series), but are great amps, so you should be able to find one (possibly new if you check the smaller music stores) at a good price. They have gotten very good reviews. I have the F-30, and with a couple of pedals it can create almost any kind of sound you would want.
posted by markblasco at 9:23 AM on April 27, 2007
posted by markblasco at 9:23 AM on April 27, 2007
Carvin makes a variety of good quality tube amps at a decent price-- I'm very happy with my MTS-3212 combo, even more so since I switched out the original power tubes for EL34s. Marshall sound at half the price.
If you go the Epiphone route for a guitar make sure it is Korean made and not Chinese-- they moved a lot of their production around 2000 and the quality is not as good as it was.
If you can go as high as $800 for a guitar, try a Gibson Les Paul Vintage Mahogany-- great tone and feel for not too much money.
posted by InfidelZombie at 10:34 AM on April 27, 2007
If you go the Epiphone route for a guitar make sure it is Korean made and not Chinese-- they moved a lot of their production around 2000 and the quality is not as good as it was.
If you can go as high as $800 for a guitar, try a Gibson Les Paul Vintage Mahogany-- great tone and feel for not too much money.
posted by InfidelZombie at 10:34 AM on April 27, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks for all the advice folks! There's a lot out there I hadn't considered.
pineapple, thanks for transcribing all that jargon!
As for the question about sound, I don't exactly know. "Loud 'n' Dry" maybe? Faces-era Ron Wood? I've always been bad about playing junk (Silvertone, Danelectro, etc) around the house and loaners for shows so I'm a bit ignorant on the subleties of what guitars make for what sounds, beyond the basic Fender/Gibson split. I had an SG junior for a while which I liked but nothing much after that.
mzurer, I'm hoping to keep the whole thing between $1-2K.
posted by mundy at 1:32 PM on April 27, 2007
pineapple, thanks for transcribing all that jargon!
As for the question about sound, I don't exactly know. "Loud 'n' Dry" maybe? Faces-era Ron Wood? I've always been bad about playing junk (Silvertone, Danelectro, etc) around the house and loaners for shows so I'm a bit ignorant on the subleties of what guitars make for what sounds, beyond the basic Fender/Gibson split. I had an SG junior for a while which I liked but nothing much after that.
mzurer, I'm hoping to keep the whole thing between $1-2K.
posted by mundy at 1:32 PM on April 27, 2007
i love my ibanez gibson knockoff, but i wouldnt recommend it if your trying to find your one good guitar, i've played so much cheap, newer guitars that both sound and play better.
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 7:01 PM on April 27, 2007
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 7:01 PM on April 27, 2007
Way late to this thread, but I LOVE my Line 6 Pod X3 Live, it reproduces all those vintage tones and sounds great. All the amps mentioned above are included.
posted by Mach5 at 7:54 AM on December 13, 2007
posted by Mach5 at 7:54 AM on December 13, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Hamer archtops!
Martin solid-body electric if you can find one!
I like the Mesa Boogies combos a lot. Mid-cost older Ampeg amps might be an option as well, though I haven't shopped for one in a while.
posted by mzurer at 9:39 PM on April 26, 2007