Is this normal?

April 25, 2007 4:54 PM

Job offer timing--is this normal? Are they trying to screw me over?

I am currently employed. I recently interviewed for an entry-level job at another company and they gave me an offer on the spot. The job seems like a pretty good fit, although with its plusses and minuses, as jobs are wont to have. They wanted me to decide about the offer within 24 hours, but I asked if I could have 72 hours. They said okay.

47 hours later, I get a call from another company offering me an interview in two days. The next hour, I get a scheduled call from the first company. I tell them about the call from company number two. At the end of the call, they say they realize I am not enthusiastic about the salary (I'm not) and offer a small increase, saying it's the best they can offer, but that they won't try to get me the increased salary if I decide to interview with the other company. I say I'll think about that. A couple of hours later I call them back, telling them that if I have to choose between the possible salary increase and having more time to decide about the job, I'll take more time. They inform me that they weren't actually giving me a choice and that they won't give me any more time to consider the offer. They never at any point give me a reason why they need me to decide so soon, although to be fair, I don't ask.

Am I right to think that I'm not being treated decently? Is this normal behavior? I think this job would be a good fit but the company's actions are putting a very sour taste in my mouth.

I should note that this is *not* an issue of the company needing me to start immediately--they were willing to put off my start date by several weeks.

posted by phoenixy to work & money (17 comments total)

You're right to think that you're not being treated decently.

Consider yourself fortunate not to have taken a job with an employer who treats people that way. It would have certainly continued once you were employed.
posted by The World Famous at 5:05 PM on April 25, 2007

My rule of thumb for jobs: never hire on with a company that plays shenanigans during the hiring process. As companies tend to be on their best behavior while trying to lure in a hire, their treatment of you will go downhill from here.
posted by jamaro at 5:05 PM on April 25, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

They're being sketchy - consider yourself lucky you learned it now rather than during your first performance review. Which is to say, don't give them the opportunity to give you one.
posted by ersatzkat at 5:13 PM on April 25, 2007

My dad, a small business owner, gives offer-ees roughly 48 to 72 hours to decide, from what I recall him telling me. He doesn't pull the sort of shenanigans your prospective employer is pulling (which I agree are pretty bogus) but he, as the CEO of the small company, often has to do interviews and he hates doing them. If he locks you in as his new employee, he doesn't have to interview any more people. If he's waiting around for two weeks to hear from you, that's more time where he has to look for someone else to talk to, or sit around wondering whether he has a new sales lackey or not.

So, if this is a smallish firm it may be the case that they're devoting real resources to hiring you that are generally needed elsewhere. Just to give one possible explanation for their behavior, and their annoyance that you keep asking for more time. If they're big enough to have a fulltime HR person, that is a little different.
posted by crinklebat at 5:16 PM on April 25, 2007

so... they extend your decision time by 3 fold, offer you more money then initially asked for. I think I understand if they are chomping at the bit to get this wrapped up. From their perspective you may appear to be stringing them along perhaps looking for more money, "oh, I need more time "oh, someone else wants to interview me". I'm not saying that is what you are doing, rather what they may think is going on. It is an entry level job, I think you have to decide right away to either take it now, or lose it for the potential of another job with the second company. You've had a few days to think about it, not much else is going to change.
Good luck
posted by edgeways at 5:31 PM on April 25, 2007

I think I am missing something, what was the reason for telling the first company about the interview with the second company? Were you asking for them to extend your decision time beyond 72 hours? And if you had 72 hours, why were they scheduled to call after 48?

Because I think I am missing something, my answer might be a bit off base, but here goes:

In the worst case scenario, telling the first company about the interview with the second company came off like a power play to get them to cough up a better offer. In the best case scenario, it sent a signal to the first company that you weren't really interested in their position, you'd keep it in mind as a safety back up if the other interview didn't go well. It stands to reason that the less enthusiastic you seemed about taking their job the less enthusiastic they were about the time you needed to decide if you wanted the job. Deciding to go to bat for you to try to get you more money only if you don't interview elsewhere isn't poor treatment, it is just plain common sense.

As for the time limit to decide, I've got to be honest, 24 hours is pretty normal amount of time to decided whether or not to take an entry level position. Look at it from their perspective, you were their first choice, but one way or another the job needs to be filled. While you are taking your time deciding on their offer, their second and third choice candidates are still out there interviewing and possibly entertaining offers from other companies. If you turn down the position and the other top choices are not available, they will either have to call back other candidates for 3rd interviews and, possibly, advertise the opening again. This is becoming a pretty lengthy process to fill an entry level position.

You could say ok, but what about my needs. Well, not only were they pretty generous giving you 72 hours to decide, they also offered to try to get you a bit more money AFTER you told them you wanted them to wait so you could check out an offer from another company.

In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with the way this company treated you! Again, I really think I am missing part of the story so take my opinion for what it is worth.
posted by necessitas at 5:39 PM on April 25, 2007

I think I am missing something, what was the reason for telling the first company about the interview with the second company? Were you asking for them to extend your decision time beyond 72 hours?

Yes.

And if you had 72 hours, why were they scheduled to call after 48?

I had some followup questions to ask about the job and they suggested that they should call me and I could ask them.
posted by phoenixy at 5:43 PM on April 25, 2007

I'd call this more of a culture thing than a being treated badly thing, but you should certainly take it as a possible sign of the corporate culture. Alternately, you may just be dealing with someone who's kinda green or immature. Some percentage of the work world takes things personally and maybe this person doesn't like your (entirely reasonable and, really, in everyone's best interest) wanting to take your time and make the right choice.

Personally, when someone gives me an ultimatum or says I have to decide NOW my instinct is to say "okay, then no." You'll have to decide where your limits are on that. Were I you I'd close the door on these folks and lose no sleep over it.
posted by phearlez at 5:52 PM on April 25, 2007

Ah, well that makes sense. In any case, it really isn't appropriate to ask a company that has already extended an offer to wait for you to continue your job search before deciding on whether or not you'll accept their offer. It is like a guy asking someone to the prom, only to have his would-be date ask him to wait till the night before the dance for her answer, just in case a better offer turns up. Obviously this limits his ability to find a suitable date if and when she decides she doesn't want to to go with him.

If you are already showing signs that you think you'd be settling for this job, they are probably already wondering if you'd display other loyalty issues and jump ship two months in when you've found a better job.

Seriously, if you think this company would be a good fit, but you feel you've been mistreated, try to get that out of your mind. They haven't jerked you around at all. If you aren't so convinced that this would be a good fit but you want to keep interviewing, the best thing you can do at this point is to turn down the offer and hope they consider you for another position in the future, should such an opportunity arise.
Good Luck!!
posted by necessitas at 5:59 PM on April 25, 2007

As a hiring manager your goal is to fill the position as quickly as possible. Depending on the type of position and their candidate pool I can completely understand them pushing to close the deal quickly. This doesn't seem like shenanigans or anything to me. Just an eager hiring manager who wants to get the job done.
posted by Octoparrot at 6:08 PM on April 25, 2007

In any case, it really isn't appropriate to ask a company that has already extended an offer to wait for you to continue your job search before deciding on whether or not you'll accept their offer.

Sure it is. People do it all the time. If you know that what you have to offer an organization is valuable then of course you are going to search some to find the best fit. Good employers actually want people like that, because they know that a good fit benefits both the employee and the company. A company that expects you to take a lower salary than you want, and expects you to jump at a job within 72 hrs does not seem like a good company.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:37 PM on April 25, 2007

In my experience, companies that pressure you to make a decision tend to look at you more as a resource than as a human resource. I once declined a job offer simply because the HR manager said, "We like to move quickly and only give people 24 hours notice because we want to catch good people before they have time to consider another job." (When I declined the offer, I received no response from the company whatsoever.)

However, this is an entry-level position. 24 hours is reasonable and 72 hours is generous. Is the salary really out of line with market rates? What benefits are included? I once was offered $30k a year at a company that also gave me a $7k training allowance, retirement savings matching worth another $1k, 3 weeks of vacation and excellent benefits. The package was really worth $40k, but I was annoyed that my salary was $30k, not $35k. If I'd considered the benefits, I wouldn't have been so annoyed. (Fortunately, I took the job.)
posted by acoutu at 7:57 PM on April 25, 2007

I didn't read any of the above, but accept the offer and then interview with the second job anyway. Don't think if they hired you and found someone to work for cheaper they would think twice about canning you that day.
posted by xammerboy at 9:04 PM on April 25, 2007

In any case, it really isn't appropriate to ask a company that has already extended an offer to wait for you to continue your job search before deciding on whether or not you'll accept their offer.

Sure it is. People do it all the time. If you know that what you have to offer an organization is valuable then of course you are going to search some to find the best fit. Good employers actually want people like that, because they know that a good fit benefits both the employee and the company.

I guess I must be a terrible employer in that case because as a small business owner, I would (and have) immediately lose interest in any candidate who, in essence, told me "Give me a little time to see if a better offer comes along first before I decide if I want the job".

I agree that some of the tactics used by the company phoenixy applied with seem a bit heavy-handed (you'd think they'd just move on at this point to their #2 or #3 choices, which leads me to believe there is no #2 or #3), but I don't see anything wrong with a company not wanting to wait out a potential employee's exhaustive job search. necessitas prom analogy is a good one.
posted by The Gooch at 11:24 PM on April 25, 2007

Say yes, do the other interview, if you get a better offer phone the first company back and tell them you've changed your mind. What's the problem?
posted by biffa at 1:39 AM on April 26, 2007

Yes, it's normal. They're trying their best to hire you. I can't see any way in which this translates to them trying to screw you over. They're really just asking you to stick to your agreement, and asking you not to screw them over.

It often feels like a company is trying to put one over on you when they try to convince you that you should accept less money then you know you're worth. But they may not agree with what you're worth, or they may not care, they may only have this much money in the budget. It's always good to hold out for more, as you have done, because first offers are never for the maximum they can pay you.

But trying to save money does not equal screwing you over. They know that if you accept you are agreeing to the terms - they're not forcing you to take less than you're worth.

You didn't ask what you should do. But you are getting some advice on this thread to screw them over (agree to terms and then go back on your word), on the grounds that they would probably do it to you if the circumstances were right. For what it's worth I think this will get you more money in the long run, but this kind of attitude makes the world less pleasant to be in, almost by definition. (Any time I see, or remember, bad behavior by someone else, I can assume this person in front of me will act badly, so I might as well act badly first.)

Having said that, it sounds as though you're reasonably in demand, and since the topic of you not starting for several weeks came up, it sounds like you're in no need of money. So you would probably be safe waiting for something you're happier with. It could be that there's something else under the surface contributing to your discomfort with this company.

Would you be happy if they included in their offer letter an agreement to review your salary after three months and give you an increase then? At that point you will already be worth a lot more to them, having proven yourself, and as long as you're doing a moderately good job, they will really want to avoid interviewing again.
posted by lockedroomguy at 5:07 AM on April 26, 2007

It is definately normal to have a time-limit for considering an offer.

Telling them about another interview was not a good idea - you should have simply asked for an extension - perhaps stating that you would be out-of-town.

But you do have to see it from their point. Recruiting and interviewing candidates takes time, effort and money.

They want to lock in a candidate so that they can move onto other things. They want someone who is serious and will commit to their company.
posted by jkaczor at 9:20 AM on April 26, 2007