Ownership of the clouds
April 18, 2007 10:02 AM Subscribe
Is it my responsibility to fix my fathers broken promise to my sister?
My father, while renovating his apartment, gave me a very lovely painting (clouds). As I was leaving with it, he told me "I may have promised this to your sister, but I really want you to have it." Background: Over the past many years, the relationship between my father and my sister has been quite tenuous (as has my relationship with her) sometimes not speaking for many months at a time. Of course, when my sister found out that I had the painting, she went ballistic and demanded I give it to her. I said that I am not responsible for fixing his broken promise. And, if she truly thinks it was given to me in error, simply have my dad call me and ask for the painting back. I'll give it back to him and he can do with it whatever he wishes. I have told this directly to him as well. He has never asked for it back and has told her directly to forget about it and move on. I know he feels badly about the whole situation but he will not deal with it anymore.
So my question is:
1. Stick to my criteria – Give it up only if my Dad asks me too
2. just give it to my sister
3. Burn it.
My father, while renovating his apartment, gave me a very lovely painting (clouds). As I was leaving with it, he told me "I may have promised this to your sister, but I really want you to have it." Background: Over the past many years, the relationship between my father and my sister has been quite tenuous (as has my relationship with her) sometimes not speaking for many months at a time. Of course, when my sister found out that I had the painting, she went ballistic and demanded I give it to her. I said that I am not responsible for fixing his broken promise. And, if she truly thinks it was given to me in error, simply have my dad call me and ask for the painting back. I'll give it back to him and he can do with it whatever he wishes. I have told this directly to him as well. He has never asked for it back and has told her directly to forget about it and move on. I know he feels badly about the whole situation but he will not deal with it anymore.
So my question is:
1. Stick to my criteria – Give it up only if my Dad asks me too
2. just give it to my sister
3. Burn it.
Is a painting worth all this madness? Just give her the painting.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:05 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:05 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'd just give it to her. Otherwise, she'll just hold it against the both of you as more proof that Dad loves you more than her. He broke a promise to her, and put you in the middle. It's up to you whether or not you really want to be in this spat.
posted by Roger Dodger at 10:07 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by Roger Dodger at 10:07 AM on April 18, 2007
This seems a bit snotty to me. The item appears important to her but the whole 'being responsible for a broken promise' issue seems more important to you. If the painting isn't loved beyond belief and more than a peaceful / friendly relationship with your sister, why not promote the peace and hand it over?
posted by eatdonuts at 10:07 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by eatdonuts at 10:07 AM on April 18, 2007
Make 2 replicas of it - one for each of you - and burn the original.
posted by selfmedicating at 10:09 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by selfmedicating at 10:09 AM on April 18, 2007
I'd just give it to her. Otherwise, she'll just hold it against the both of you as more proof that Dad loves you more than her.
She'll probably do that no matter what.
But, I do say give it to her, unless she has a history of manipulation, etc.
posted by milarepa at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2007
She'll probably do that no matter what.
But, I do say give it to her, unless she has a history of manipulation, etc.
posted by milarepa at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2007
Give it to your sister and don't let your father play nasty games like that with you again.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by Lyn Never at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2007
If you give it to your sister, your dad might be pissed at you. If you keep it, your sister will be pissed at you. They've turned their problem into your problem. I'd just give it back to Dad and say "this isn't worth the trouble."
posted by indyz at 10:11 AM on April 18, 2007 [6 favorites]
posted by indyz at 10:11 AM on April 18, 2007 [6 favorites]
You're helping your father be shitty to your sister and being shitty to her all at once! If you want to have a reasonable relationship to her, call her up and say "I'm sorry I was a dick; here's the painting that dad didn't give to you because he was being a dick."
posted by beerbajay at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by beerbajay at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007
Actually giving it back to your dad is probably better. Do that.
posted by beerbajay at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by beerbajay at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007
This is between your father and your sister. He shouldn't have put you in the middle, and if he doesn't want to deal with it? Well, seems he kind of caused it by promising & then handing it to you knowing that he did. I've been in this kind of situation before in my family & what I decided was that the possession of some "thing" is never worth that kind of stress & political upheaval. So in my case, I gave the "thing" back to the person who gave it to me said, "If you want me to have it, I would love to have it. If you promised it to her and you want to give it to her, then by all means give it to her. But you need to make that decision, be clear about it, & take responsibility for it like an adult. Don't pit us against eachother." And then I would leave it at that & walk away free of the stress & responsibility.
Then if HE ends up burning it, that's up to him. He needs to act like a grown up & not play games. At this point he's just being cowardly & causing unnecessary drama between you & your sister. Not cool.
posted by miss lynnster at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007
Then if HE ends up burning it, that's up to him. He needs to act like a grown up & not play games. At this point he's just being cowardly & causing unnecessary drama between you & your sister. Not cool.
posted by miss lynnster at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007
Your father is using you against your sister. Do you really want to be a pawn in that game?
Either give it to your sister, or give it back to your father and tell him you don't want the hard feelings that come with it.
posted by Good Brain at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Either give it to your sister, or give it back to your father and tell him you don't want the hard feelings that come with it.
posted by Good Brain at 10:12 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
How sad for her-- even if she gets it, she'll always remember he gave it to you first.
You really do need to give it to her. If you like, have it scanned and printed professionally and keep the copy so you can see it whenever you like. No need to mention it to your father, but if it ever does come up, just tell him that you thought it was cruel to withold something that was so integral to someone else's happiness, and that you enjoy the painting (and your print of it) far more knowing that it represents something you and your sister are finally able to share.
posted by hermitosis at 10:13 AM on April 18, 2007
You really do need to give it to her. If you like, have it scanned and printed professionally and keep the copy so you can see it whenever you like. No need to mention it to your father, but if it ever does come up, just tell him that you thought it was cruel to withold something that was so integral to someone else's happiness, and that you enjoy the painting (and your print of it) far more knowing that it represents something you and your sister are finally able to share.
posted by hermitosis at 10:13 AM on April 18, 2007
Is it your responsibility? Oh hell no. His promises are his.
Give the painting back to your father and either tell him or write a note that firmly requests he never ever put you in this kind of situation ever again.
Giving you a gift promised to someone else is about a 8.9 on the asshole scale.
posted by Ookseer at 10:17 AM on April 18, 2007
Give the painting back to your father and either tell him or write a note that firmly requests he never ever put you in this kind of situation ever again.
Giving you a gift promised to someone else is about a 8.9 on the asshole scale.
posted by Ookseer at 10:17 AM on April 18, 2007
Give it back to your dad and encourage him to take steps to resolve whatever conflicts he and your sister have. You can stick to your principles and be "right," or you can take a compassionate step and not feed into this drama.
posted by desjardins at 10:20 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 10:20 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's your father who should be to focus of your frustration and anger here. He obviously knew what he was doing when he gave it to you. Give it back to him.
posted by OmieWise at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by OmieWise at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
The painting isn't the issue.
The issue is your relationship with your sister and the fact that its "quite tenuous". Do you want to work towards changing that? If so, giving her the painting might do that.
But clearly there's a long history here, between you, your father and your sister. What do you want to about this?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2007
The issue is your relationship with your sister and the fact that its "quite tenuous". Do you want to work towards changing that? If so, giving her the painting might do that.
But clearly there's a long history here, between you, your father and your sister. What do you want to about this?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2007
cut it in half and you each get part
posted by thilmony at 10:26 AM on April 18, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by thilmony at 10:26 AM on April 18, 2007 [4 favorites]
Just give it to your sister.
posted by 10ch at 10:26 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by 10ch at 10:26 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
BTW, this is a major pet peeve of mine... family members pulling you into their greedy little battles with eachother. I've learned to just say no to pettiness. My life is too short and no painting is worth it. Better to like who I see in the mirror.
(FWIW, my grandmother was a painter. My sisters have battled over her work, and meanwhile I have one little oil painting that she gave me when I was 8 because I liked it. I'm content with my tiny painting. I treasure it. Meanwhile, my siblings have filled their garages with these giant paintings to show how much more she loved them & how much better they are than eachother. Whatever. They may own stuff, but in the process of clawing at eachother for it they became pathetic, miserable people. I don't regret not playing along.)
posted by miss lynnster at 10:28 AM on April 18, 2007
(FWIW, my grandmother was a painter. My sisters have battled over her work, and meanwhile I have one little oil painting that she gave me when I was 8 because I liked it. I'm content with my tiny painting. I treasure it. Meanwhile, my siblings have filled their garages with these giant paintings to show how much more she loved them & how much better they are than eachother. Whatever. They may own stuff, but in the process of clawing at eachother for it they became pathetic, miserable people. I don't regret not playing along.)
posted by miss lynnster at 10:28 AM on April 18, 2007
Give it to your sister but have a poster made that you can frame and hang when he comes over. Tell your sister you don't want in the middle of it, but don't tell your dad you gave it to her. Just like you don't have a responsibility to mend a broken promise to your dad you also don't have a responsibility to mend their relationship. This way you stay out of it and placate both of them.
posted by monkeymadness at 10:29 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by monkeymadness at 10:29 AM on April 18, 2007
Get thee to a therapist. Your family dynamic is fucked up, and you haven't figured out a workable way to deal with it.
posted by craichead at 10:30 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by craichead at 10:30 AM on April 18, 2007
Don't burn it. The best result from that course of action is to open a new front in the battleground that is family relationships.
I have a brother and father that do not get on at all (and, by god, the rest are even wierder). The best I can do, for me and for them, is to stay out of it. Despite their best efforts to involve me, I try my best to remember this every time a new skirmish threatens to blow into thermonuclear war.
Although I do not know you or your family, my guess would be that this little manoeuvre was pulled as some sort of move in your dad and sister's ongoing games.
If you keep it, you'll piss off your sister. If you force your dad to call her, you'll piss him off. If you burn it you'll piss them both off. My suggestion is to return the painting and let them sort it out themselves.
Having said that, if it's a Constable or Turner - screw 'em both and call Christies.
posted by davehat at 10:32 AM on April 18, 2007
I have a brother and father that do not get on at all (and, by god, the rest are even wierder). The best I can do, for me and for them, is to stay out of it. Despite their best efforts to involve me, I try my best to remember this every time a new skirmish threatens to blow into thermonuclear war.
Although I do not know you or your family, my guess would be that this little manoeuvre was pulled as some sort of move in your dad and sister's ongoing games.
If you keep it, you'll piss off your sister. If you force your dad to call her, you'll piss him off. If you burn it you'll piss them both off. My suggestion is to return the painting and let them sort it out themselves.
Having said that, if it's a Constable or Turner - screw 'em both and call Christies.
posted by davehat at 10:32 AM on April 18, 2007
ooh, buzz topic in aisle nine..
I took so long to compose my thoughts that indyz and miss lynnster managed to say it first (and a tad more clearly).
posted by davehat at 10:35 AM on April 18, 2007
I took so long to compose my thoughts that indyz and miss lynnster managed to say it first (and a tad more clearly).
posted by davehat at 10:35 AM on April 18, 2007
If your dad really gave it to you, it's yours to do with what you will. And I say just give it to your sister.
Ironically, if you sister came here and asked, "My father gave a painting promised to me to my brother, etc..." I would tell her to just let you keep it.
posted by IvyMike at 10:43 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Ironically, if you sister came here and asked, "My father gave a painting promised to me to my brother, etc..." I would tell her to just let you keep it.
posted by IvyMike at 10:43 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's not your responsibility. If the painting is worth more to you than the detriment to your relationship with your sister, keep it. If not, return it to your Dad. But bear in mind that possessions and friends come and go, but, tenuous relationship or no, your sister will always be your sister.
posted by Manjusri at 10:44 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by Manjusri at 10:44 AM on April 18, 2007
. How much do you love this painting?
. How important is it to have a pleasant relationship with your sister?
. Does your sister really love the painting, or is she just pissed that you have it?
If she truly loves it, and you value your relationship with her, and you aren't being manipulated, then you might want to give it to her, unless you can't bera to part with it.
I think your dad is manipulating both of you. Don't let him.
It's a thing, and people are most important than things.
posted by theora55 at 10:57 AM on April 18, 2007
. How important is it to have a pleasant relationship with your sister?
. Does your sister really love the painting, or is she just pissed that you have it?
If she truly loves it, and you value your relationship with her, and you aren't being manipulated, then you might want to give it to her, unless you can't bera to part with it.
I think your dad is manipulating both of you. Don't let him.
It's a thing, and people are most important than things.
posted by theora55 at 10:57 AM on April 18, 2007
People change their minds all the time. Why is your father not entitled to change his about who he wants to have the painting?
The issue was between your father and your sister, and you said he told your sister to forget about it, so it's been settled. The painting is yours to do with as you please.
There's a whole bunch of back story to this that we don't (and can't) really know. Was the fallout between them justified? Does your sister have a history of making demands on family members? If you feel she's actually entitled to the painting, then give it to her, but don't cave just to avoid a fight with a demanding sibling. "Peace at any price" isn't a great way to resolve family disputes.
posted by Gamblor at 11:03 AM on April 18, 2007
The issue was between your father and your sister, and you said he told your sister to forget about it, so it's been settled. The painting is yours to do with as you please.
There's a whole bunch of back story to this that we don't (and can't) really know. Was the fallout between them justified? Does your sister have a history of making demands on family members? If you feel she's actually entitled to the painting, then give it to her, but don't cave just to avoid a fight with a demanding sibling. "Peace at any price" isn't a great way to resolve family disputes.
posted by Gamblor at 11:03 AM on April 18, 2007
Give the painting back to your father, and let him know (without anger) that his giving it to you put you in a tight spot. If you do want to irritate your sister, you'll always be able to lord your fairness over her. And there are plenty of ways to piss her off that don't involve your dad. (I'm assuming that your sister gives you ample cause.) You might have more fun just fantasizing about it it. "What if I ask Pop to give me something else -- something Sis would covet even more than that painting? Heh heh heh." Personally, I love to daydream about tormenting one or another of my siblings now and then. I don't actually carry out my devious schemes, because I would hate the ensuing drama.
posted by wryly at 11:12 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by wryly at 11:12 AM on April 18, 2007
Keep the painting. When your sister can act responsibly, give it to her.
Her claim to the painting is based on her relationship with the family. When she straightens that out, everyone will want her to have the painting.
The painting is a family asset, and your sister is estranged.
Keep it.
posted by ewkpates at 11:16 AM on April 18, 2007
Her claim to the painting is based on her relationship with the family. When she straightens that out, everyone will want her to have the painting.
The painting is a family asset, and your sister is estranged.
Keep it.
posted by ewkpates at 11:16 AM on April 18, 2007
Your father apparently didn't take seriously a promise he made to his own daughter. If I were her, I'd probably keep relations tenuous, too. You also didn't take his promise seriously, nor did you consider her feelings about this promise, let alone the picture. I understand if relations are tenuous, but that's really not a very nice way to treat anyone, let alone a family member who cannot help but care how you treat her. I'd consider giving her the picture right now, with a very sincere apology and maybe an additional gift to show that you really do care about her.
You and she are the next generation, and it's up to you both to try to improve on the (even if otherwise exemplary) behaviour of your parents. Your father can apologize if he wants to, and you're not responsible for his promises, but you are responsible for half of your relationship with your sister (she's responsible for the other half).
posted by amtho at 11:16 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
You and she are the next generation, and it's up to you both to try to improve on the (even if otherwise exemplary) behaviour of your parents. Your father can apologize if he wants to, and you're not responsible for his promises, but you are responsible for half of your relationship with your sister (she's responsible for the other half).
posted by amtho at 11:16 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
destruction of the original solves nothing, it just doubles the loss. that recommendation by other commenters was stupid.
your father told you he might have promised it to her. that is the point where you should have refused it. you did not. she has a right to be miffed but not a right to demand a present.
it is thus entirely your choice whether you value her goodwill towards you or the painting more. make a choice and stick to it.
posted by krautland at 11:31 AM on April 18, 2007
your father told you he might have promised it to her. that is the point where you should have refused it. you did not. she has a right to be miffed but not a right to demand a present.
it is thus entirely your choice whether you value her goodwill towards you or the painting more. make a choice and stick to it.
posted by krautland at 11:31 AM on April 18, 2007
Like others, I'd suggest returning it to your father. It's his problem and he should deal with it.
I like the idea of having a replica made first, though.
posted by Lionel d'Lion at 11:35 AM on April 18, 2007
I like the idea of having a replica made first, though.
posted by Lionel d'Lion at 11:35 AM on April 18, 2007
BURN IT?
Burn a PAINTING? A beautiful, original painting that provably moves people? This is some primo what-fuckage.
It's not the artist's fault. I am imagining a beautiful, emotional painting, made by a painter when he or she wanted to capture beauty perceived. It's not the art or the artist's fault. Awful that we forget about that original, positive expression.
You sound angry as hell, and I guess it's the fault of your sister and father. Perhaps you should sell the painting, donate money to charity (perhaps one meaningful to the family like a charity for a disease someone died from, or a political party you all support), write a letter to both of them explaining what you did, and asking them to consider your action a symbol of your frustration with family dynamics.
Let the painting's departure from your family be a metaphor for baggage that you should all work through; let the donation be a metaphor for turning it into something positive; let the loss of the painting's beauty be a metaphor for the loss the bad patterns of behaviour have caused in your lives, and let the painting itself, and the artist's original vision, be free again to make its own meaning, in the lives of a new family, or a gallery, or a school, or a hospital.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:36 AM on April 18, 2007
Burn a PAINTING? A beautiful, original painting that provably moves people? This is some primo what-fuckage.
It's not the artist's fault. I am imagining a beautiful, emotional painting, made by a painter when he or she wanted to capture beauty perceived. It's not the art or the artist's fault. Awful that we forget about that original, positive expression.
You sound angry as hell, and I guess it's the fault of your sister and father. Perhaps you should sell the painting, donate money to charity (perhaps one meaningful to the family like a charity for a disease someone died from, or a political party you all support), write a letter to both of them explaining what you did, and asking them to consider your action a symbol of your frustration with family dynamics.
Let the painting's departure from your family be a metaphor for baggage that you should all work through; let the donation be a metaphor for turning it into something positive; let the loss of the painting's beauty be a metaphor for the loss the bad patterns of behaviour have caused in your lives, and let the painting itself, and the artist's original vision, be free again to make its own meaning, in the lives of a new family, or a gallery, or a school, or a hospital.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:36 AM on April 18, 2007
Interesting.
I wonder if your dad had given you a house or $100,000 or something else if everyone in the thread would be saying "give it to her".
It is your dad's painting to do with as he wants. He may have said at one point he would give it to the sister, but he never did, did he?
It may be that giving it to you makes him some sort of dick, but it doesn't make you a dick, either directly or indirectly.
You should not play along with your sister trying to pull you into this. Consider if your dad had given it to you without that little mention at the end. Then your estranged sister would have just been angry for what was, to you, no reason.
That's what you have to maintain. This is none of your concern.
If your dad talks to your sister and then decides he really should give it to her, then make him pay his pittance and come back to you to embarrassingly ask for the painting back.
This is not your problem, at all. This is not your problem to fix.
Consider if your dad had "promised" to pay for your sister's wedding, then when she found a man to marry, your dad declined. Would you somehow now be responsible for paying for your sister's wedding?
This problem is not your problem at all.
Your father had a painting. He gave it to you. This is where your interest in the story stops.
The end.
Also, I like ewkpates family asset explanation.
posted by Ynoxas at 11:39 AM on April 18, 2007
I wonder if your dad had given you a house or $100,000 or something else if everyone in the thread would be saying "give it to her".
It is your dad's painting to do with as he wants. He may have said at one point he would give it to the sister, but he never did, did he?
It may be that giving it to you makes him some sort of dick, but it doesn't make you a dick, either directly or indirectly.
You should not play along with your sister trying to pull you into this. Consider if your dad had given it to you without that little mention at the end. Then your estranged sister would have just been angry for what was, to you, no reason.
That's what you have to maintain. This is none of your concern.
If your dad talks to your sister and then decides he really should give it to her, then make him pay his pittance and come back to you to embarrassingly ask for the painting back.
This is not your problem, at all. This is not your problem to fix.
Consider if your dad had "promised" to pay for your sister's wedding, then when she found a man to marry, your dad declined. Would you somehow now be responsible for paying for your sister's wedding?
This problem is not your problem at all.
Your father had a painting. He gave it to you. This is where your interest in the story stops.
The end.
Also, I like ewkpates family asset explanation.
posted by Ynoxas at 11:39 AM on April 18, 2007
Sure, you have the right to keep the painting. Your dad did an obnoxious thing by breaking a promise to his daughter. He did a doubly obnoxious thing by putting you in the middle of it.
Do you want to try to patch things up with your sister? If so, you can make a gift of the painting and let her know that you want to try and patch things up between the two of you, regardless of her relationship with your dad.
If you don't care about patching things up with your sister, keep the painting.
I wouldn't worry about what your dad thinks. He was in the wrong here, and it's your painting now to do with as you please.
I do think the right thing to do would have been to refuse the painting when he mentioned he had promised it to your sister...but that ship has sailed.
posted by tastybrains at 11:48 AM on April 18, 2007
Do you want to try to patch things up with your sister? If so, you can make a gift of the painting and let her know that you want to try and patch things up between the two of you, regardless of her relationship with your dad.
If you don't care about patching things up with your sister, keep the painting.
I wouldn't worry about what your dad thinks. He was in the wrong here, and it's your painting now to do with as you please.
I do think the right thing to do would have been to refuse the painting when he mentioned he had promised it to your sister...but that ship has sailed.
posted by tastybrains at 11:48 AM on April 18, 2007
Your initial statement was unclear: did your father mean that he MIGHT have promised it to her, but was unsure about how she'd regard his commitment, or even about what he said? That might color one's sense of his motives, and her reaction.
Assuming it was a promise, should you keep it? My sense is that the stress to you from doing so, including the feeling that you're abetting a wrong, isn't worth it. I strongly disagree with those who say his promise isn't your problem, but in any event, I think your misgivings are plain, and that kind of emotional cost is enough.
Should you give it to her? My sense is that you'd feel like your sister has taken advantage of your generosity, and that you had betrayed your father's wishes.
Should you give it back to your father? Like many, I think that's clearly the best solution. The close question in my view is whether you leave open with him the possibility that he can return it to you once he makes his posture clear with your sister.
I can understand where your idea of burning it comes from. I'm very surprised, however, that so many others would endorse it and other means of destroying the painting. Honestly, I think some of those answers display a minority but significant tendency around here: to treat serious personal dilemmas like sheer sport.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 11:59 AM on April 18, 2007
Assuming it was a promise, should you keep it? My sense is that the stress to you from doing so, including the feeling that you're abetting a wrong, isn't worth it. I strongly disagree with those who say his promise isn't your problem, but in any event, I think your misgivings are plain, and that kind of emotional cost is enough.
Should you give it to her? My sense is that you'd feel like your sister has taken advantage of your generosity, and that you had betrayed your father's wishes.
Should you give it back to your father? Like many, I think that's clearly the best solution. The close question in my view is whether you leave open with him the possibility that he can return it to you once he makes his posture clear with your sister.
I can understand where your idea of burning it comes from. I'm very surprised, however, that so many others would endorse it and other means of destroying the painting. Honestly, I think some of those answers display a minority but significant tendency around here: to treat serious personal dilemmas like sheer sport.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 11:59 AM on April 18, 2007
she already knows you have the painting, she already knows you got it first, she also knows that you're keeping it since your dad gave it to you.
basically, you have sided against your sister and it seems like you're okay with that.
do you give a rat's ass about your relationships with your sister? if no and you're fine with how it currently is and don't want to move beyond what it is, then keep the painting. If you want to change the situation and form a different relationship with your sister, you're gonna need to do a lot of stuff because you've already screwed up - you kept the painting after finding out it was for your sister.
and she's gonna remember this for a long long time.
if you want to form a better relationship with your sister, give the painting back to your dad, apologize to your sister, ask for her forgiveness and then sit back and sees what happens. Then tell your dad to not give you things anymore. And then prepare your sister to keep mentioning this incident until she herself pushes it aside and decides that she wants a good relationship with you.
but if you like interfamily posturing, have fun and go on tyra. she needs the ratings.
posted by Stynxno at 12:03 PM on April 18, 2007
basically, you have sided against your sister and it seems like you're okay with that.
do you give a rat's ass about your relationships with your sister? if no and you're fine with how it currently is and don't want to move beyond what it is, then keep the painting. If you want to change the situation and form a different relationship with your sister, you're gonna need to do a lot of stuff because you've already screwed up - you kept the painting after finding out it was for your sister.
and she's gonna remember this for a long long time.
if you want to form a better relationship with your sister, give the painting back to your dad, apologize to your sister, ask for her forgiveness and then sit back and sees what happens. Then tell your dad to not give you things anymore. And then prepare your sister to keep mentioning this incident until she herself pushes it aside and decides that she wants a good relationship with you.
but if you like interfamily posturing, have fun and go on tyra. she needs the ratings.
posted by Stynxno at 12:03 PM on April 18, 2007
wow, your dad hates your sister so much he's willing to use this painting as a pawn to kindle animosity, and to set you up as a surrogate adversary to her after he's gone, and you weren't smart enough to see this coming and avoid it, were you?
whatever you do, make your choice from the perspective of what you will be most comfortable looking back on ten years from now.
families are just hands of playing cards dealt at random from the big deck of souls. home is where the hurt is!
posted by bruce at 12:17 PM on April 18, 2007
whatever you do, make your choice from the perspective of what you will be most comfortable looking back on ten years from now.
families are just hands of playing cards dealt at random from the big deck of souls. home is where the hurt is!
posted by bruce at 12:17 PM on April 18, 2007
I'd just give it to her if the painting has no real cash value. If it's worth money though, I'd offer to sell it and split the profits or offer to let her buy it.
posted by chairface at 12:31 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by chairface at 12:31 PM on April 18, 2007
Do not burn the painting!
Make two high-quality archival prints at the same size as the original, and give the painting back to your father. Have the prints framed really nicely (duplicate the original, if possible) and give the second to your sister.
posted by nevercalm at 1:02 PM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Make two high-quality archival prints at the same size as the original, and give the painting back to your father. Have the prints framed really nicely (duplicate the original, if possible) and give the second to your sister.
posted by nevercalm at 1:02 PM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Doesn't the word "promise" mean that it belonged to your sister once your dad told her it was hers? Breaking the promise sucks, and the fact that both you and your dad don't care about the effect on your sister's feelings really sucks. If I were the sister, I would be mad too. I'd probably also be estranged from the family.
posted by selfmedicating at 1:59 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by selfmedicating at 1:59 PM on April 18, 2007
Trust me on this one, because I had a break with my father too. Please give the painting to your sister. No matter how much she says she hates your father, nor what the origins of the rift are, the rift is painful and incomprehensible. She doesn't need to feel responsible for ruining her relationship with you as well. You need to fix this.
posted by nax at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by nax at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2007
IMO, your sister should be more important than a father that manipulates the relationship between his offspring in such an abhorrent manner. Give it to your sister, it will make her happy. Happiness is good.
posted by saturnine at 2:58 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by saturnine at 2:58 PM on April 18, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks Everybody for your comments.
And given the volume of responses I though a little more background/info would be helpful.
The reason my father said he "promised" it to her is because she asked him for it. Just like she asked for grandma's plates, his Baker's rack and a few other things, I'm sure. I am not in the habit of asking people for their possessions and, frankly, feel it base to do so. But maybe thats just me.
If that makes me lose family positions that I care about, I'll have to deal with it.
Anyway, I have stopped trying to fix my family about 3 years ago. They are who they are. And my sister is a "taker" and will not go 1 inch out of her way for anyone except herself and our mother. Quick side story: When she got tired of my grandfather 's antique eye chart (he was an opthmologist) she threw it out. I luckily found out before it was taken and have it. She sold my grandmothers candelabras to an antique dealer with out asking me (or anyone) if I wanted them - had to buy them back for $200.
My Dad has been clearly been hurt by her over the years and I believe that is what precipitated his decision to renege on his "promise".
I am actually surprised how may "give it" responses I've gotten. And, I guess this additional post was to help garner more "keep it" responses to make me feel better in my decision so far. But I purposely kept it to the very basics to see what kind of responses I'd get.
Thanks again everybody.
posted by pmaxwell at 3:00 PM on April 18, 2007
And given the volume of responses I though a little more background/info would be helpful.
The reason my father said he "promised" it to her is because she asked him for it. Just like she asked for grandma's plates, his Baker's rack and a few other things, I'm sure. I am not in the habit of asking people for their possessions and, frankly, feel it base to do so. But maybe thats just me.
If that makes me lose family positions that I care about, I'll have to deal with it.
Anyway, I have stopped trying to fix my family about 3 years ago. They are who they are. And my sister is a "taker" and will not go 1 inch out of her way for anyone except herself and our mother. Quick side story: When she got tired of my grandfather 's antique eye chart (he was an opthmologist) she threw it out. I luckily found out before it was taken and have it. She sold my grandmothers candelabras to an antique dealer with out asking me (or anyone) if I wanted them - had to buy them back for $200.
My Dad has been clearly been hurt by her over the years and I believe that is what precipitated his decision to renege on his "promise".
I am actually surprised how may "give it" responses I've gotten. And, I guess this additional post was to help garner more "keep it" responses to make me feel better in my decision so far. But I purposely kept it to the very basics to see what kind of responses I'd get.
Thanks again everybody.
posted by pmaxwell at 3:00 PM on April 18, 2007
Speaking just for myself, it seems a more appropriate use of others' time to disclose the facts you think are material, if you recognize that, when you recognize that . . . rather than keeping it to the very basics to see how everyone would react on that basis, and then disclose more to elicit additional responses in order to shape the tide of opinion.
But I suppose this was more inadvertent than the second post suggests. Otherwise, I'm thinking that your sister should burn it.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 3:41 PM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
But I suppose this was more inadvertent than the second post suggests. Otherwise, I'm thinking that your sister should burn it.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 3:41 PM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Keep it. Her problem is with your dad, and really has nothing to do with the painting. If she's spoken to your father, and he's told her to get over it... that's what she needs to do.
Sounds like she's being a child about it too... I generally don't like the idea of letting people like that have "their way".
posted by Mookbear at 3:52 PM on April 18, 2007
Sounds like she's being a child about it too... I generally don't like the idea of letting people like that have "their way".
posted by Mookbear at 3:52 PM on April 18, 2007
I think it's pretty crappy to keep it if you know it was originally intended for and promised to her. Keeping it is like buying a "hot" item and thinking it's okay because you didn't steal it yourself.
posted by sneakin at 4:12 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by sneakin at 4:12 PM on April 18, 2007
Your sister and my sisters sound a hell of a lot alike.
posted by miss lynnster at 5:25 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 5:25 PM on April 18, 2007
The title of your post pretty much says it all - this is not about the painting, it's about family drama and people keeping score. I'm changing my vote to: sell the painting and spend the money on self-help books.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:10 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by selfmedicating at 6:10 PM on April 18, 2007
As far as I can fathom it, his promise is now your responsibility. Why? Because you knew, when you walked out the door with the painting, that your father promised it to your sister. At that point, your father transferred the responsibility to you. Had you no knowledge of it, or had you told your father, "I'm sorry, I don't want to get between you and my sister and if you promised it to her, please do give it to her," you'd be absolved...but you took the painting knowing that accepting the painting would be contentious and would cause family drama. So, yeah, do what you want--give it to your sister, defiantly keep it, or childishly burn it (but why would you even think about this? If you didn't absolutely love it, why would you keep it knowing the hurt it would cause?)--the responsibility is yours.
posted by jenh at 6:57 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by jenh at 6:57 PM on April 18, 2007
Don't give it to the sister. This is one of those situations where the best thing to do is look out for numero uno. You have a nice painting, keep it and enjoy it. Let your dad and your sister deal with their own bs and it's between them. And when your sister calls again and demands the painting don't be nice to her. Take off the kid gloves. Tell her the grow the fuck up and stop fighting over a stupid painting and start treating her family like real human beings. You're not going to win with anybody who'd go ballistic over a painting so you might as well take the opportunity to deliver a speech.
posted by nixerman at 7:24 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by nixerman at 7:24 PM on April 18, 2007
Keep it.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 7:37 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by Count Ziggurat at 7:37 PM on April 18, 2007
With that bit of extra info: if you really like the painting, keep it. If not, give it back to your father and ask him to not involve you in family politics ever again.
posted by deborah at 8:05 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by deborah at 8:05 PM on April 18, 2007
After reading the new information, I still say give the painting back to your father. I can tell you're fed up with your sister and more than a little sympathetic with your father. I'm also sure you really like "The Clouds".
Still, I say give it back. Why? Because if you keep it, you guarantee years of more stress, more drama, more animosity. They're all playing a game and if you keep that painting, you've just jumped right into it. There will be no escape. Any children you may have, any future relationships, years and years down the road, will have the distinctly unpleasant specter of your sister's anger hanging over them.
You already think she's something of a narcissistic, self-centered drama queen. So what's the best thing to do with that type of person? Engage her further, by holding on to something you know means something to her (even if the only thing it means is scoring points)?
Don't be a right-fighter. You are so sure you're right about this and you're tired of letting her "win" and cleaning up her messes. You keep the painting, you're saying "Bring It On!". You'll regret that. Give the painting back to your father and you're moving on with your own life and your own pursuits.
If you really, really love this painting....perhaps your father can hold on to it for a while and then offer to sell it to one of his children. Then you can buy it outright as you would any other painting, or you'll have moved on. But get this thing out of your life now.
posted by Danila at 8:09 PM on April 18, 2007
Still, I say give it back. Why? Because if you keep it, you guarantee years of more stress, more drama, more animosity. They're all playing a game and if you keep that painting, you've just jumped right into it. There will be no escape. Any children you may have, any future relationships, years and years down the road, will have the distinctly unpleasant specter of your sister's anger hanging over them.
You already think she's something of a narcissistic, self-centered drama queen. So what's the best thing to do with that type of person? Engage her further, by holding on to something you know means something to her (even if the only thing it means is scoring points)?
Don't be a right-fighter. You are so sure you're right about this and you're tired of letting her "win" and cleaning up her messes. You keep the painting, you're saying "Bring It On!". You'll regret that. Give the painting back to your father and you're moving on with your own life and your own pursuits.
If you really, really love this painting....perhaps your father can hold on to it for a while and then offer to sell it to one of his children. Then you can buy it outright as you would any other painting, or you'll have moved on. But get this thing out of your life now.
posted by Danila at 8:09 PM on April 18, 2007
Seems like an interesting question for Randy Cohen, of The Ethicist fame (site may require subscription?). His email address is at the bottom of that page, and he does answer questions of exactly the type you're posing. At a guess I think he'd say it's not up to you to redress your father's (alleged?) wrongs, but that you personally might make your decision based on the "do unto others" principle. Do unto others doesn't come with loopholes, so sadly you don't get to keep the painting just because your sister wouldn't treat you the same way.
posted by planetthoughtful at 11:46 PM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by planetthoughtful at 11:46 PM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
If your father had given the painting to a neighbor instead of you, would your sister then be justified in demanding it back from the neighbor? Would the neighbor be somehow morally responsible for giving it to her?
What if he had given it to Goodwill? Would anyone take her seriously if she "demanded" it come back to her?
The fact that you received it is no different than any of the above situations. It just SEEMS different because of your relationship.
This issue is between your sister and your father, and that's all. Everything else is a red herring.
posted by Ynoxas at 8:47 AM on April 19, 2007
What if he had given it to Goodwill? Would anyone take her seriously if she "demanded" it come back to her?
The fact that you received it is no different than any of the above situations. It just SEEMS different because of your relationship.
This issue is between your sister and your father, and that's all. Everything else is a red herring.
posted by Ynoxas at 8:47 AM on April 19, 2007
These two things are incommensurate, and it's a curious position to take: "This would be a different situation if you were not related to your sister, and you should act like it's that situation." The whole point is that this is not Goodwill or a neighbor, it's a brother, a sister and a father.
posted by OmieWise at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2007
posted by OmieWise at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2007
OmieWise: I disagree. I consider you wise, but I do not see how this can be construed, even partially, to be the brother's problem and/or battle.
He is being brought into this dispute against his will by the sister. If the sister were a decent human being, she would wage her dissatisfaction against the father. She, too, should recognize this has nothing to do with the brother.
I fail to see why he should give in to his sister "going ballistic" and demanding it herself. This can only bode poorly for the future. It's like giving into a toddler when they start screaming "it's mine mine miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!!!".
The sister is claiming some divine right to the object, so it is therefore, or at least SHOULD be, irrelevant as to who has the object. She doesn't, and that is her complaint. Otherwise, she has to answer very publicly that it is not about the painting at all... which of course we all know it's not about the painting.
I also suggest the OP have his father write a very detailed, very clear will with the assistance of an attorney, because this is headed straight for court the minute he dies.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2007
He is being brought into this dispute against his will by the sister. If the sister were a decent human being, she would wage her dissatisfaction against the father. She, too, should recognize this has nothing to do with the brother.
I fail to see why he should give in to his sister "going ballistic" and demanding it herself. This can only bode poorly for the future. It's like giving into a toddler when they start screaming "it's mine mine miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!!!".
The sister is claiming some divine right to the object, so it is therefore, or at least SHOULD be, irrelevant as to who has the object. She doesn't, and that is her complaint. Otherwise, she has to answer very publicly that it is not about the painting at all... which of course we all know it's not about the painting.
I also suggest the OP have his father write a very detailed, very clear will with the assistance of an attorney, because this is headed straight for court the minute he dies.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2007
I do not see how this can be construed, even partially, to be the brother's problem and/or battle.
He is being brought into this dispute against his will by the sister.
I agree with you insofar as the brother is getting the raw end of this, but I think it's the father bringing the brother in, not the sister. Which is not to say that the sister is acting well, or rationally, or anything, just that the father set up the bad situation.
My point about the other is that his sister is his sister. There's no way around that, and even her bad behavior or irrationality about it doesn't obviate it. Were she railing against the Goodwill then the only person involved would be the sister and the father (for giving the painting to Goodwill), and it would be easy to see the sister as irrational (and perhaps miss the father's involvement). But, since the painting was actually given to the brother, he is now in the uncomfortable position of having to deal with his sister's complaints. He has to either decide to ignore them, accede to them, or extricate himself (which is what I propose), but he does have to deal with them because this is a family matter.
posted by OmieWise at 9:54 AM on April 19, 2007
He is being brought into this dispute against his will by the sister.
I agree with you insofar as the brother is getting the raw end of this, but I think it's the father bringing the brother in, not the sister. Which is not to say that the sister is acting well, or rationally, or anything, just that the father set up the bad situation.
My point about the other is that his sister is his sister. There's no way around that, and even her bad behavior or irrationality about it doesn't obviate it. Were she railing against the Goodwill then the only person involved would be the sister and the father (for giving the painting to Goodwill), and it would be easy to see the sister as irrational (and perhaps miss the father's involvement). But, since the painting was actually given to the brother, he is now in the uncomfortable position of having to deal with his sister's complaints. He has to either decide to ignore them, accede to them, or extricate himself (which is what I propose), but he does have to deal with them because this is a family matter.
posted by OmieWise at 9:54 AM on April 19, 2007
Based on the new info, I change my advice. Keep it.
posted by Good Brain at 2:30 PM on April 19, 2007
posted by Good Brain at 2:30 PM on April 19, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Salvatorparadise at 10:04 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]