Comments on: What are some old-school rap or hip-hop songs that go against the gang/sex/drugs culture?

Question: What are some old-school rap or hip-hop songs that go against the gang/sex/drugs culture?

daninnj — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:03:55 -0800

What are some old-school rap or hip-hop songs that go against the gang/sex/drugs culture?

I'm looking for not-as-well-known-today 80s or 90s (although today is okay, I prefer older music) hip hop or rap music that goes against the norms of rap music today: sex, drugs, violence, gangs, etc...

Some examples are:
Rappin' 4 Tay - I'll Be Around: cautions against the gang lifestyle
Nice & Smooth - Sometimes I Rhyme Slow: tells of cocaine abuse
Nonchalant - 5 o' Clock: cautions against drug abuse and drug deals

There are major hits that fit into this category (TLC - Waterfalls, Coolio - Gangsta's Paradise) but I rather see lesser known hits.

By: kkokkodalk

kkokkodalk — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:11:59 -0800

"White Lines (Don't Do It)" by Grandmaster Flash I believe?

By: mmascolino

mmascolino — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:13:39 -0800

The Message and White Lines by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.

By: contraption

contraption — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:22:19 -0800

You don't say why you're looking for these, and I have I a feeling it might not be quite what you're looking for, but The Dogs' Yo Mama's On Crack Rock is ostensibly anti-drug, and too fascinating not to mention.

By: trip and a half

trip and a half — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:27:47 -0800

This question makes me think of Blondie's "Rapture".

White Lines, definitely.

By: dog food sugar

dog food sugar — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:30:57 -0800

UNITY maybe?

By: amyms

amyms — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:37:53 -0800

Not necessarily "old school" but it goes against the grain of "sex, drugs and gangs" : Miss Jackson by Outkast.

By: notjustfoxybrown

notjustfoxybrown — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:45:43 -0800

Are you looking specifically for examples of those who preach against the aforementioned evils or those who just talk about other, more positive things? If it's the latter, check out anything by Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Black Sheep or KRS One. I could think of a ton more if I were not so exhausted.

By: fuzzy_wuzzy

fuzzy_wuzzy — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:52:01 -0800

DC Talk's "That Kind of Girl" from the Free At Last album; Audio Adrenaline's "DC-10" from their self-titled album.

By: daninnj

daninnj — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:56:26 -0800

notjustfoxybrown: They preach against the evils.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:57:43 -0800

Ice Cube's It Was a Good Day is arguably anti-gang, although it clearly uses gang imagery and themes, in a sarcastic, off-hand fashion.

"Waking up in the morning, gotta thank God...no barking from the dog, no smog...nobody I know got killed in South Central LA, today was a good day...today I didn't even have to use my AK..."

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:04:42 -0800

The Coup - Last Blunt
The Coup - Funk
The Coup - I Ain't The Nigga (about the N-word)
Public Enemy - Night of the Living Baseheads
De La Soul - Ghetto Thang
De La Soul - Jenifa Taught Me (I think this would work)
Brand Nubian - Wake Up

By: Danelope

Danelope — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:07:06 -0800

Jeru The Damaja - Ya Playin' Yaself

By: Danelope

Danelope — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:09:36 -0800

Also, for something newer, Soul Position's "Hand-Me-Downs".

By: hydrophonic

hydrophonic — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:11:23 -0800

Lady D - Lady D (she kicks out her date for getting too fresh)
Brother D and the Collective Effort - How We Gonna Make the Black Nation Rise
Kurtis Blow - If I Ruled the World
Grandmaster Flash - The Message (casual homophobia notwithstanding)

90's is old school? Wow, I feel old, but here's some:
Run-D.M.C. - The Ave
Run-D.M.C. - Pause (with the Afros. "Brothers be out there doin crack... NOOOOOOO!")
De La Soul - My Brother's a Basehead
A Tribe Called Quest - Description of a Fool

By: Artifice_Eternity

Artifice_Eternity — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:11:32 -0800

There was a song called "We're All in the Same Gang" that came out around 1990 or so, by "The West Coast Rap All-Stars", which comprised Tone Loc, NWA, Ice T, Digital Underground, Young MC, MC Hammer, and a bunch of other artists.

It was well-intentioned, and I liked it at the time. I'm not sure how well it was received by its main target audience.

Eazy E's rap, which was the last verse of the song, sort of undercut the whole premise -- he basically presented himself as a gangster and said "Don't try this at home, kids".

By: Artifice_Eternity

Artifice_Eternity — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:13:14 -0800

Lyrics are here.

Eazy's verse:

Last but not least, yo, Eazy's no sell-out
And if you can't hang in the streets, then get the hell out
I'm not tryin to tell ya what to do
You have your own freedom of choice who to listen to
You knew good from bad, fair from foul, right from wrong
Now your mother's singing that sad song
(My baby ain't never hurt nobody!)
But he still got smoked at Bébé's party
But you're not the first or the last
You're nothin but a short story from the past
You're dead now, not number one but a zero
Take notes from Eazy-E, the violent hero

By: ontic

ontic — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:16:12 -0800

Most of Jurassic 5's stuff, while not too old, is old school with a positive message -- rhymes over drugs and such. I also really like Blackalicious for this reason, especially Blazing Arrow.

By: freebird

freebird — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:52:17 -0800

Besides a tendency to revolution theater - I see The Coup is already covered above - KRS1 has some pretty thoughtful lyrics. A lot of "stop the violence", a lot of pretty rich political and historical stuff, and some serious breath control breath control breath stylee. And that whole Stop The Violence Smovement.

He's been at it forever, though it actually sounds like he's been pretty much losing it this century in an artistic sense. I can't say for anything past say 1999 , but the first couple decades were rad. I'm not a vegetarian, but the "when when will this poisonous product cease" song almost made me one. Some of his stuff is pretty honest about real world choices (like not selling drugs vs. being really poor and hungry) so I don't know whether that fits your view of being "anti-drugs". But he certainly doesn't glamorize them or "The Life".

Beyond that, ditto Blackalicious, The Coup , J5 (though I wouldn't call any of them "old school" nor simplistically "anti-" the things you list). All the old Sugar Hill/G.M. Flash stuff mentioned above of course.

ah here's a new idea:

Check out The Last Poets - not really what people might consider rap, but really part of the tradition. Pretty thoughtful and rich, jazzy narrative styles.

By: lil' ears

lil' ears — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:02:41 -0800

Jazzmatazz with Guru and MC Solaar "Le Bien, Le Mal"

By: asuprenant

asuprenant — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:21:51 -0800

He's newer than you outline, but J-Live, a former middle school teacher cum DJ, MC, and producer keeps his rhymes positive.

I haven't heard his most recent releases, but The Best Part and All of the Above are great.

By: hippugeek

hippugeek — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:40:13 -0800

Fairly recent, but Children's Story and Definition by BlackStar.

By: Jairus

Jairus — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:19:24 -0800

Run-D.M.C. wasn't old-school, Run-D.M.C. was the first of the new-school.

By: peacecorn

peacecorn — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:29:00 -0800

My mixtape:
Pete Rock and CL Smooth - "TROY"
A Tribe Called Quest - "Check the Rhime"
Common Sense - "I Used To Love H.E.R."
EPMD - "You Gots To Chill"
Brand Nubian - "Concerto in X-Minor"
Gangstarr - "DWYCK"
Lords of the Underground - "Chief Rocka"
De La Soul - "A Roller Skating Jam Called Saturday"
Eric B and Rakim - "Microphone Fiend*"
LL Cool J - "I'm Bad*"

*There's a BIG difference between "violent lyrics" and the "I'm so good on the mic I'm going to cut you down" themes a lot of great hip-hop possesses.

By: jbickers

jbickers — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:03:26 -0800

Virtually anything by Arrested Development, and the live version of "Mr. Wendel" in particular.

By: cocoagirl

cocoagirl — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:14:08 -0800

I'll throw Public Enemy's ""She Watch Channel Zero?!" into the mix. It's an anti-tv message.

By: DefendBrooklyn

DefendBrooklyn — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:17:47 -0800

Stop The Violence Movement - "Self Destruction"

Classic.

By: rxrfrx

rxrfrx — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:04:33 -0800

Pharcyde - Y? (Be Like That) (the last verse, at least)

By: macadamiaranch

macadamiaranch — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:39:42 -0800

Parent's Just Don't Understand by DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince. Pretty much the entire DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince oeuvre would fit your bill.

By: BigLankyBastard

BigLankyBastard — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:50:14 -0800

Ice-T - "You Played Yourself"
NWA - "Express Yourself"
Geto Boys - "Mind's Playin Tricks On Me"

By: box

box — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:00:52 -0800

Your question is hard to answer, because it's filled with oversimplification and generalization. There's some legitimate argument about what constitutes 'old-school' rap music, but very few observers would put anything from the '90s into the category. Further, it's quite a stretch to call gangs, sex, drugs and money the norms in modern hip-hop music. Even when limited to the most mainstream of mainstream music, these themes are far from ubiquitous. And, most of all, the simplicity of your reading belies the complexity of many of these narratives.

Melle Mel was high when he recorded the vocal for 'White Lines.' And does something like the Geto Boys' 'Mind Playin' Tricks on Me' go against the gang/sex/drugs culture? The multiple narrators gloat about selling a man flour for cocaine, but, like many hustlers, they also yearn to find 'an exit out the business.' Or, to use one of your examples, in 'Sometimes I Rhyme Slow,' Smooth B delivers an anti-cocaine rap, of a kind, but he also briefly fantasizes about shooting his girlfriend ('maybe I should lick her with my nine millimeter'). Quite a few previous posters have mentioned songs with the same kinds of ambiguities. To answer the Wu-Tang Clan's musical question, it can't all be so simple.

By: sneakin

sneakin — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:02:04 -0800

1. Keep Ya Head Up by 2Pac (inspirational song about staying up despite adversity)
2. Brenda's Got a Baby by 2Pac (about teen pregnancy among other themes)
3. Change by 2Pac (a call to Black America to fight oppression and racism)
4. D'evils by Jay-Z (a conflicted and sad meditation on the evils of the drug trade and greed)
5. You Can't Stop the Prophet by Jeru the Damaja (about a superhero who fights his enemy Ignorance who is the cause of teen pregnancy and the crack scourge)
6. Loosifa by The Juggaknots (An AMAZING tale of someone who goes legit to support his girlfriend and soon to be born child and goes insane from seeing crackbabies and the depravity in his neighborhood and ends up burning down the local crack house. Easily of the best hip hop songs ever.)

Anyone who wants more info, email me.

By: teleskiving

teleskiving — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:07:25 -0800

Shallow Days by Blackalicious is a great song about why hip hop doesn't have to be negative to be credible. The rest of their stuff is also good.

By: ms.jones

ms.jones — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:13:53 -0800

kool moe dee. almost anything from his "knowledge is king" album. and you should let us know what the final outcome of this inquiry will be. i'm curious :)

By: ourobouros

ourobouros — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:23:40 -0800

Plenty of stuff by The Roots. A couple that come to mind:
- "Water" from Phrenology
- "Act Too (The Love of My Life)" from Things Fall Apart

You could also try "Party for the Fight to Write" by Atmosphere. It's in no way old-school, but definitely on-message.

By: cashman

cashman — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:29:40 -0800

D.C. Scorpio, Stone Cold Hustler & Stone Cold Hustler II. Good luck finding audio or video of part II though...

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:50:35 -0800

If you prefer 'older music', you should go beyond the 80s and 90s and go back to the beginning. Check out anything by Afrika Bambaataa.

Bambaataa decided to use his leadership to turn those involved in the gang life into something more positive to the community. This began the development of The Organization, which soon later became known as the Zulu Nation, a group of racially and politically aware rappers, B-boys, graffiti artists and other people involved in hip hop culture that gained fame in the early eighties to mid nineties. By 1977, inspired by DJ Kool Herc, Bambaataa had begun organizing block parties all around the South Bronx, and he was soon renowned as one of the best DJs in the business. In 1980, he produced Soul Sonic Force's landmark single, "Zulu Nation Throwdown."

By: Industrial PhD

Industrial PhD — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:55:51 -0800

There is a lot of good old stuff mentioned in this thread, but I want to mention 3 current artists that are trying to go against the current hip-hop norm and portray a positive image:

Lupe Fiasco
Talib Kwali
Common

If I had one to recommend out of those it's Lupe.

By: candyland

candyland — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:56:40 -0800

Whodini - "Friends"

By: monkeymadness

monkeymadness — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:18:49 -0800

Just about anything by Boogie Down Productions (BDP). See the album Edutainment.

By: freebird

freebird — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:58:49 -0800

Yeah - I just realized I didn't mention this, but a few of the above comments tie together when you know that BDP/Boogie Down Productions is (mostly) KRS1. Again though - pretty positive and thoughtful, but very real. And some of your question makes me suspect that by "anti-gang/drugs/sex", you mean something a little less than real, frankly.

Are stories about being forced by socio-economic realities into running guns and shooting old pals "anti-gang?" I think so, but not everyone would agree.

By: elmer benson

elmer benson — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:04:02 -0800

maybe check out some tracks from Michael Franti's first few groups, Beatnigs and Disposable Heroes of the Hiphoprisy for more of an old-skool vibe. Beatnigs certainly has some punk elements, and the Disposable Heroes can be more acid-jazz, but they fit the time frame and message you're looking for.

His later work with Spearhead has more jazz and reggae influence, but I still love the song "Hole in the Bucket".

Franti is a member of the Green Party, and his music, which focuses on social justice and peace issues, is certainly a departure from traditional themes in popular rap music.

By: hydrophonic

hydrophonic — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:20:29 -0800

"I Used to Love H.E.R." by Common (from back when he went by Common Sense) is an allegory on hip hop's decline due to gangsta rap's exploitative subject matter.

By: jeanmari

jeanmari — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:54:12 -0800

Gil Scott Heron - Message to the Messengers

GSH is THE guy to listen to if you want SUPER old school rap about social justice and societal wrongs. He's often called the Founding Father of Rap.

Some lyrics:

Young rappers, one more suggestion, before I get outta your way.
I appreciate the respect you give to me and what you've got to say.
I'm sayin' "Protect your community and spread that respect around."
Tell brothers and sisters they gotta calm that bullshit down,
Cuz we terrorizin' our old folks, and we've brought fear into our homes,
And they ain't gotta hang out with the senior citizens,
Just tell 'em, "Dammit, leave the old folks alone!!!"
And we know who rippin' off the neighborhoods.
Tell 'em that B.S. has gotsta stop.
Tell 'em you sorry that they can't handle it out there, but they gotta
take the crime off the block!!!

His classic hit was "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised." And, although it's not rap, his "Pieces of a Man" gets me every time.

By: sneakin

sneakin — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:50:10 -0800

Echoing elmer benson, check out Michael Franti's Spearhead. Although more recent (1990's) than the projects elmer mentioned, defnitely of the ilk you want. Particularly the album Home.

By: .kobayashi.

.kobayashi. — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:34:25 -0800

Man, oh man. while there's some good recommendations here, I don't know that many of them fit the "not-as-well-known-today" criteria. It's safe to assume that you know about Afrika Bambaataa or Grandmaster Flash.

You might not, however, have run across Mr. Magic, his 12year old nephew Pookey Blow, and the others from the early 80's Connecticut hip-hop scene.

Some people say Connecticut can't rock/But I'm here to make you all hip and hop

I don't know if they're going against a violent culture so much as they're just outside of it. But Pookey Blow's Pookey's "Get Up (And Go To School)" will serve your purposes just fine, regardless.

By: allterrainbrain

allterrainbrain — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:46:00 -0800

I assume this hasn't been mentioned due to your "not as well known today" request, but the Queen Latifah single "U.N.I.T.Y." ("Who You Callin' a Bitch?") was a well-known example of what you're looking for.

By: sneakin

sneakin — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:41:21 -0800

allterrainbrain, UNITY was mentioned early on, I think.

I forgot to mention this and nasreddin reminded me: Me and Jesus the Pimp in a '79 Granada Last Night by the Coup. It's all about the evils of prostitution. Such a great song.

By: allterrainbrain

allterrainbrain — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:44:37 -0800

Ah, I see -- searched the page for "Latifah" and didn't find it.

Another excellent possibility is the CD "Eargasms Volume 1" from 1999, which has several tracks of interest here, including a great Saul Williams track where the beats are only made by his voice and the lyrics are about hip hop losing the human beat & the history of drumming / human music making.

"I will not rhyme over tracks.
Niggas on a chain gang used to do that,
way back..."

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:12:55 -0800

High Rollers by Ice-T

Now radio stations probably won't play
This record because of the things I say
They'll say I'm glamorizing the hustlin' hood
And a record like this can do no good
But I'm not here to tell ya right or wrong
I don't know which side of the law you belong

Yes,the game has flash,but sometimes hurts
Behind any mistake,hard times lurks
And jail's not your only problem,though it may seem
You just may die by a barrage from an M-16
But to each his own,choose the mobile phone
The tailored suit,the luxury home
You'll never get caught,'cause you got nerves of ice
And you're much smarter than those crooks on Miami Vice
Right?