Is my neighbor's second bathroom going to make my building crumble?

April 6, 2007 7:57 AM

What are the risks associated with adding a second bathroom to an old apartment building not necessarily "wired" for the task?

I am concerned about my neighbor's construction plans. We live in an old brownstone from the 1920s with one apartment per floor. As it is now, each apartment has only bathroom - all in the same location/on the same line. One of my neighbors wants to add a second bath - (on the second floor) - and rearrange some walls. I'm wondering if there's anything inherently tricky about this from a structural standpoint...I'm worried if each apartment is renovated on a case-by-case basis without looking at the structure as a whole things could end badly. Am I overreacting?

posted by waterbottle to home & garden (11 comments total)

That is what permits and building inspectors are for.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 8:11 AM on April 6, 2007

we're a small co-op without permit templates and at the mercy of structural engineers, who give varying opinions, MonkeySaltedNuts.
posted by waterbottle at 8:19 AM on April 6, 2007

Where do you live ? There must be some sort of Plumbing Code. Beng a Co-op shouldn't matter, codes are usually City/ County/State. That being said, the plumbing would have to be tied-in to existing plumbing, which isn't usually a big deal. They need to insure that the walls will support whatever they put in place.
posted by lobstah at 8:34 AM on April 6, 2007

IANA plumbing inspector. There are a number of different plumbing codes that a particular municipality can adhere to, but they are mostly alike. If he is not cutting any joists, it shouldn't be a problem structurally. Whether or not the walls he wants to move are load bearing is another matter entirely.

Also, if the floor below is not ducted return on the HVAC system, whoever's doing the work is going to need to do the waste piping in cast iron.
posted by notsnot at 8:47 AM on April 6, 2007

First, make sure that any structural engineer you're asking actually a licensed engineer and not just some guy the contractor found. Next, make sure that their assessments are A) written and B) stamped by the engineer.

In engineering there's a big difference between "an opinion I'm willing to state in conversation" and "an opinion I'm willing to be legally liable for".

Next, make sure the plumbing guys are all licensed (or whatever the equivalent is for your state), and that they carry suitable insurance.

Also, since you're a co-op I have no idea what impact liens would have on you (but I bet it complicates things) -- so look into that. You may need to do things like get the tenant to sign papers indicating they take full responsibility for immediate payment of all liens placed against the property by anyone doing work for them. Or maybe not, I can't say for sure. Just beware of liens.
posted by aramaic at 8:50 AM on April 6, 2007

...um, none of my foregoing remarks should be taken as a reason to panic. This is all probably routine work that barely needs to be noticed. I'm merely saying think about these matters. Don't panic.
posted by aramaic at 8:51 AM on April 6, 2007

notsnot said: Also, if the floor below is not ducted return on the HVAC system, whoever's doing the work is going to need to do the waste piping in cast iron.

I've never heard of this, could you clarify?
posted by davey_darling at 9:46 AM on April 6, 2007

I think it's the "rearranging some walls" part that would worry me the most. The placement of internal partitions in most buildings is not arbitrary; they are part of the structure of the building.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 9:52 AM on April 6, 2007

Internal partitions may indeed be arbitrary, except when they're not. There are structural walls and nonstructural walls. A structural engineer's job is to determine which are which. A good rule of thumb is that if there's a wall on one floor with a wall in exactly the same place on the floor below, it's probably structural.

Many brownstone/townhouse type buildings don't have interior structural walls. Since it's a relatively short span, the joists don't need any intermediate support.
posted by electroboy at 10:00 AM on April 6, 2007

I understand your concern. The co-op should have some sort of oversight process and require professional credentials. There's lots of things that can go wrong when adding a bathroom or renovating an old building's plumbing. Just off the top of my head:

1) Is the floor stong enough to hold a supersize tub that's filled with water?
2) How is the required plumbing (below floor) being installed?
3) Is the downstairs neighbor okay with the inherit risk of water from above?
4) Can the bathroom be properly exhausted to avoid mold?
5) Who's actually responsible when something goes wrong.

The list could go on and on. The owner probably needs an architect to address all the issues.
posted by tfmm at 10:06 AM on April 6, 2007

This is also a good time to consider getting home-owner's or renter's insurance. It's relatively inexpensive. Go over the fine details of what it covers and whether it covers replacement of the lost/damaged items or the depreciated value of the items.

Can't give you any advice on the actual structural aspects of the proposed upgrade, however I second the caution of using licensed & bonded professionals. If you are unsure about something, call your local permit office.
posted by loquat at 10:50 PM on April 7, 2007