Do I need this gossiping friend?

April 2, 2007 8:41 AM

Someone who I consider a very close friend recently told me in an off-hand way that she gossiped behind my back “all the time” to our mutual classmates/friends while we were in a very intense graduate program together a few years ago.

We were roommates during the program and for a while after, and I think she was unhappy with the division of labor in the house (cleaning, etc). But the whole four years we lived together during the program she never said a single word to me about it. Honestly, not a single word. I fully admit that as an adult I shouldn’t have need to have been told “do the dishes,” but it’s beyond me that she could be angry about that for years without telling me what she wanted.

Once I moved out, she started making snarky off-hand comments to me about house cleaning every so often. I assume she was talking behind my back about housecleaning stuff while we were in school, but she also knew a lot about my other personal problems and anxieties, so maybe she was talking about those things too. I don’t know. To make matters worse, I always felt like an outsider in the program and she was pretty much my main social link to other students. Now I find out that the whole time she was talking smack about me to them, about all sorts of things – perhaps I was somehow sensing that these people I was hanging around were actually privy to all this stuff about me from her, and that’s why I felt so out of place.

I’m trying to figure out if I need her in my life anymore. Do I confront her about this, when it doesn’t really matter anymore? I don’t really care about that old crowd. They’re still her friends, but they don’t matter to me at all now that I’m not in school. At the same time, I don’t want her to talk about me to them anymore. I don't make (or get rid of) friends lightly, and she has been a really close friend. I've never in my life decided to cut somebody off before, but I feel really betrayed now and am wondering what she adds to my life. Overreaction?

posted by anonymous to human relations (25 comments total)

If she mentioned it in the context of a confession, that is one thing. If she was saying it in the context of "gossip is no big deal, I used to gossip about you all the time," that is something totally different.

Gossiping about a friend is mean, if she feels bad about it or has changed/is changing as a person, then there is no reason to cut her out of your life. If she hasn't changed as a person and she is still gossipy (does she gossip to you about her other friends?), then there is no reason to keep her in your life because you won't be able to trust her. That said, cutting her out doesn't have to involve a whole dramatic showdown, just stop talking to her or revealing intimate parts of your life to her and eventually the friendship will die out.

One thing that took me a long time to learn is that people aren't owed my friendship. If someone hurts me or isn't a good friend, then there is no reason to keep them around.
posted by necessitas at 8:55 AM on April 2, 2007

Overreaction? Yeah.

Try and take it from the other perspective. If you're old enough to be in grad school, you're old enough to a) know that you've gotta do the dishes, and b) know that if you don't do the dishes you'll piss off your housemates, and c) know that living together requires give and take and so be on the look out for signs that you're pissing off your housemate. You shouldn't be required to read her mind, but she shouldn't be required to spell stuff out that a 20 year old should know.

If you're "a very close friend" then take a week to chill, try and work out her perspective, get a bit of distance. And then talk to her about it like an adult. You sound wound up right now, and that's not a state in which to make a decision.
posted by handee at 8:57 AM on April 2, 2007

You're seriously considering ending a friendship now because of something she said she dead years ago? That doesn't make sense to me.

How does her talking to them affect you? In other words, had she not told you she was talking behind your back, would you have known? And if not, what's the difference anyway?
posted by Phyltre at 8:58 AM on April 2, 2007

Maybe you would do best to just decide that most of the gossip was just her blowing off steam about general cohabitation issues, rather than assuming that she was maligning you in a more serious way.

I know waking up to a dirty kitchen can put me in a foul mood and inspire me to make snarky comments behind my friends'/housemates' backs from time to time, but it's more along the lines of "Jimmy's such a slob" than "Jimmy never does the dishes because he has all these embarrassing personal problems."

I wouldn't want to lose a close friend because of things she said about me years ago, especially if I didn't care about maintaining relationships with the people she said them to.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:02 AM on April 2, 2007

it's not clear to me from your post whether the then-roommate was doing anything more than griping to her friends about your housekeeping tendencies. if that's all it was, then it doesn't seem particularly serious: your roommate, for any number of possible reasons, didn't want to confront you directly about the division of chores and was letting off steam with her friends. it's not a constructive way of handling things, to be sure, but i've, at various times, been on both sides of the irresponsible roommate equation--when i wasn't pulling my weight, i wass aware of it, and just wasn't doing anything about it (so my roommate would have been justified in griping), and when the reverse was true, i complained to everyone in earshot. both behaviors were stupid, but it was never something that would have seriously jeopardized a friendship.

but, if you think she was divulging genuinely personal information (after all, the condition of your shared apartment was pertinent to her life; your private anxieties were not and therefore should not have been freely discussed without your knowledge), you should confront her about it. if it turns out she was, then she's just sort of a shit and not trustworthy, and you should adjust the bounds of your relationship to reflect that. you don't need to burn any bridges, but you'll know, for future reference, that she's not someone to confide in.

as to whether you're overreacting? i would say it's not time to feel betrayed until you know what information was being shared. alarmed, suspicious, and sketched-out? all of those seem appropriate.
posted by wreckingball at 9:06 AM on April 2, 2007

I've always thought that it's smart to assume that everyone you know has talked about you to someone else at some point in their life. And you even admit that it's possible she had some legitimate beef with you. At the same time, it hurts. But I would try to move beyond it and look at the friendship as it now- what's going on now? Is she a positive or negative force in your life? If you take stock and find out that she's not bringing good things into your life, then you go from there. I don't know that it needs to be a big dramatic "Get out of my life!!!" talk; just stop calling/e-mailing/texting/making dates with her.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:07 AM on April 2, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

In cases like this I think that it's useful to realize that all gossip is not created equal. There is harmless gossip and there is gossip intended to ridicule and demean.

In and of itself gossiping is not a bad thing. People talk about each other all of the time. Often other people in a peer group have little else to talk about. For example, consider how often you and your classmates spent time gossiping about your professors. Was it mean spirited? Probably not. Probably it was just the one topic that you all had in common, and so talking about your professors (and other students) was an easy, default topic. I know that in my graduate program we gossip about each other all of the time. Most of it is just harmless venting. Most of it is just a way to forge social bonds. None of it is meant to harm the subject of the gossip in anyway.

Of course, if she was actively trying to belittle, demean, and ostracize you from the group, then you should abandon the friendship. You should abandon the friendship not because she gossiped about you, but because someone who actively maligns you is clearly not your friend.
posted by oddman at 9:13 AM on April 2, 2007

Living together and being in a program together sounds pretty intense. Add to the mix the likelihood that you were both in your 20s at the time (still are?). That sounds like a potentially irresponsible time for everyone (non-dishwashers and gossipers alike).

When I was in college I was not the best friend or housemate to other people. In fact, I'm pretty sure I gossiped and failed to do my dishes and was generally irresponsible fairly frequently. It's embarrassing to look back on from a responsible adult perspective, and in a couple of instances where I'm still connected to the people I've mentioned it and apologized.

Perhaps you and your friend were both irresponsible? In any event, maybe you could talk it over with your friend. Acknowledge your own role, and explain that you find gossiping upsetting.

Aside: I still get confused by the gossiping thing. I know that some people have a very strict "no gossiping" rule. But I don't always understand how that kind of rule works. I often share my own story and experiences with friends, and these stories and experiences often include other people. It just seems human and ordinary to talk about other people. So I get confused.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:19 AM on April 2, 2007

I've ended a friendship with someone partly because of her talking trash about me behind my back. But it was to my old friends, not to her circle. But I didn't END IT! BECAUSE SHE WAS MEAN! I just let the "friendship" drift into acquaintance and stopped trusting her with really personal information. I'm still friendly with her, because we have mutual friends and there would be no benefit to getting into a big dramatic blowout over hearsay and insinuation.

If you want to save the friendship, and you two are really close, you may be able to. Depends on the dynamics of your friendship.

Sounds to me like there's some power issues going on. Is your former roommate still carping on about your housekeeping skills years later? If so, I'm betting she's using this as an excuse to maintain some perceived status as top dog over you with her friends. Instead of getting all defensive, I'd fix her with a WTF look and wonder aloud why she's still hung up on silly shit from back in graduate school.
posted by desuetude at 9:19 AM on April 2, 2007

At the same time, I don’t want her to talk about me to them anymore. I don't make (or get rid of) friends lightly, and she has been a really close friend.

So close that she can't even tell you to do the dishes?

Either you are, in fact, close friends, in which case, you can talk about this issue--what kind of stories she might have told about you, how it makes you feel, whether she still does that sort of stuff--and work out a compromise, or realize there is no compromise possible, or you're not close friends, and you can't talk about these things, and you should probably just lose the catty bitch.[1]

It seems like it may well be a one way friendship--she's your best friend or a very close friend, while you're just one of her many friends. Think about how your relationship works. Does she confide in you as much as you do in her? Does she invite you places, or do you do all the inviting? It may be that you're the only one investing in the emotional relationship at all, while she just likes a groupie.

[1] Catty bitchiness relative to actual closeness of friendship.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:32 AM on April 2, 2007

I think the reason this bothers you so much is that you're still judging yourself for your past behavior and problems, which you regard as shameful secrets. Forgive yourself for being a less-than-perfect roommate, accept the past for what it was, and you'll be in a much better position to evaluate your present friendship.
posted by teleskiving at 9:38 AM on April 2, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

is she gossiping about you in a hurtful or malicious way, spreading lies, revealing things she knows to be personal and private? Is she taking more from you than you are getting from the friendship? Are you making excuses for her behavior? These are all signs it's time to drop the friendship.

Is she telling people things like "anon always let the dishes pile up, and never cleaned the bathroom"? Not a biggie. Gossip could also mean things like "anon is always doing such cool stuff, and did you know this fab thing about her?" - but if she is snarky often, that's probably not it.

I feel really betrayed now and am wondering what she adds to my life.

What's she add? No clue here, you didn't mention anything that she adds to your life now.
posted by yohko at 10:35 AM on April 2, 2007

When I was a grad student, lots of people in the program shared apartments, and most of them gossiped. None of the negative stuff changed my opinion of the person being gossiped about. (It often gave me a very bad impression of the person doing the complaining. Why were they telling ME about it?) If I'd heard about crimal acts or vicious/dishonest behavior, that probably would have influenced me, but at worst the talk was just complaining.

It doesn't matter so much what she said about you; her attitude is more important. You won't know how to feel about this issue till you figure out if your friend was being unkind or not. If she was just assuming you were thicker-skinned than you actually were, then you can look to the future and keep sensitive stuff to yourself or set some boundaries. But if she was putting you down just to amuse herself and others, then she wasn't a friend and may not be a friend now.

Can you trust her from here on in? If you feel like you can, then be clear with her what kind of gossip is okay with you. And encourage her to tell you if you do something she doesn't like.
posted by wryly at 10:59 AM on April 2, 2007

Couple of thoughts:

People in intense situations, often gossip to blow steam.
Some people gossip as their form of 'communications' (false trust, false intimacy)

So, much of it likely was harmless.

This 'friend' probably didn't know which stuff shouldn't be gossiped about (and you probably hadn't gauged correctly what level of confidence was appropriate.)

Many people struggle with these interpersonal limits (and often reveal too much to people; people who should be thought of as aquaintenances, rather than full blown out friends.)

Don't blame her for your mistake in being too revealing in your life (just be a bit more judicious in who you pick to reveal so much to.) But still much of it was her inability to keep her mouth shut (and communicate appropriately about sensitive or personal details.)

That being said, I'd probably do something fairly evil - I'd probably have lunch, remark on her comment, and mention to her about some of your 'group' of friends, would be derisive about her (behind her back of course), in her gossiping ways.

In other words (and never using these words to her)- I'd let her know, that the rest of us, gossiped about how inappropriate we thought her gossiping habits are/were, and how poorly we thought of her as a person; and now, that she realizes it, we're relieved about her realization.
posted by filmgeek at 11:22 AM on April 2, 2007

As others have said, you were an adult in grad school. If you didn't want her to complain about your irresponsibility, then you should have pulled your weight.

Anyway, you're making a couple of assumptions. Based on an off-hand comment, you assume that she resents you for not pulling your weight years ago, and you assume that she gossiped about your personal problems and that she continues to do so. Are these assumptions justified? It seems to me that the only way to know for sure is to talk to her. You're asking random strangers on the Internet if we think you ought to cut this woman out of your life. You should be talking to her about these things.
posted by smorange at 11:23 AM on April 2, 2007

I'd just let it go -- not necessarily let HER go -- while, obviously, no longer assuming that she has your back in all things, if ever that assumption was warranted.

But the whole four years we lived together during the program she never said a single word to me about it. Honestly, not a single word.

Boy, I wish I had your confidence about these things. Nothing elliptical, even, like "I sure wish people in this house would pick up after themselves"?

but it’s beyond me that she could be angry about that for years without telling me what she wanted.

Are you so sure she was angry for years, as opposed to occasionally being miffed and venting? If she was shaking with rage, you would have parted company as roommates earlier.


I assume she was talking behind my back about housecleaning stuff while we were in school, but she also knew a lot about my other personal problems and anxieties, so maybe she was talking about those things too. I don’t know.

You need to evaluate whether she was breaching confidences, which is a different category of complaint. Not clear whether you have cause to suspect that or not.

To make matters worse, I always felt like an outsider in the program and she was pretty much my main social link to other students. Now I find out that the whole time she was talking smack about me to them, about all sorts of things – perhaps I was somehow sensing that these people I was hanging around were actually privy to all this stuff about me from her, and that’s why I felt so out of place.

This is a wild surmise. More likely she felt free to complain to them because she could sense that you and they weren't especially close.

At the same time, I don’t want her to talk about me to them anymore.

You can control what you tell her, and what she can then convey. You can't control whether she talks about you to them, even if you tell her to piss off -- you can't control her, and attempts to do so will simply give her reason to dish. But in any event, what makes you think that what pissed her off then, and was worth sharing in grad school, and which she has confessed to you now, is germane now?
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 12:37 PM on April 2, 2007

No, you don't need her, and you can't trust her, and she doesn't have a very high opinion of you, does she, that she thinks she can drop this bombshell - "oh yeah, by the way, I told all our colleagues what a slob you are" - and still have you call her a friend. Not nice.
posted by b33j at 1:09 PM on April 2, 2007

You are overreacting. Well, possibly. Well.. probably. On one hand, there is a huge difference between bitching about your roommate's slovenliness and discussing their personal problems for the amusement of others. On the other hand, whichever route she went was obviously years ago! Crimes have statutes of limitations -- surely gossiping should too. If you don't get the sense that she is gossiping about you NOW, then, honestly, it's silly to punish her for something (relatively minor) that she did in the not-so-recent past.
posted by srrh at 1:10 PM on April 2, 2007

No, you don't need her, and you can't trust her, and she doesn't have a very high opinion of you, does she, that she thinks she can drop this bombshell - "oh yeah, by the way, I told all our colleagues what a slob you are" - and still have you call her a friend. Not nice.

b33j,

Fair enough. But recall: (1) there doesn't seem to be any dispute that the criticisms were fair; (2) she confessed; (3) the relationship now may be different than it was then. I have several sets of friends nowadays that I know started out disliking one another intensely, and I have no doubt they talked smack about one another back in the day.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 1:19 PM on April 2, 2007

Well, maybe this is all different for girls, but I know my roommate talked and talks smack about me. I know I don't do the dishes often enough, I know I'm a bit of a slob, I know that I annoy him from time to time.
But I'm still decent friends with him, and he's moved back in now that my gf is in California. And we talked about it. What I'll say is that the last time we lived together, we were super passive aggressive, though we remained buddies. Now, we tend to hash things out (and we've both, I think through living with girlfriends, become MUCH better communicators).
And still, I know he talks smack about me. I talk about him. Doesn't mean that I don't think he's not a great guy, just sometimes he's hilarious in a way I can't communicate to him, and sometimes he annoys me in a way that's much more me than him (which is the main source of the gossip).
So, I'd tell you to figure out exactly what was going on, and try not to be hurt about it. Though if your pal treats this glibly or flippantly, I'd be more pissed off than if she's like, "Yeah, I understand that making you angry."
posted by klangklangston at 2:21 PM on April 2, 2007

I personally don't think you're overreacting. If it was JUST about the fact that she gossiped, well that is something that could be remedied, and maybe you'd be overreacting. But that's not what's bothersome to me here.

Somebody who is a really close friend, whom you live with, has issues for years that she discussed with others, but not you? Sounds majorly passive-aggressive to me. She also sounds like a really bad communicator.

And regardless of whether or not she's actually trustworthy...YOU don't feel like you can trust her anymore! And with good reason (IMHO).

The thing is, she may grow out of gossipping, but the non-confrontational passive-aggressive indirect behavior will persist unless you set boundaries and are constantly forcing her to confront these issues as they come up. It might be a struggle. Do you want that? Do you have time for it?

I personally would let this friendship slide. She's not a bad person, but it doesn't sound like she's offering you anything other than teaching you a lesson about when to move on from one-way friendships.

If the idea of doing it is a big stress-relief, then definitely do it. Walk away maturely and with grace, be direct where you need to, and you won't regret it. It'll free you up to find other people in which you can engage in a healthy, open, and enriching friendship.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:38 PM on April 2, 2007

Clyde Mnestra

I'm projecting - I know, because i had a friend who meant the world to me who didn't tell me when my behaviour upset her. I found it when her mother told my mother's pathologist who told my mother about the horrible person that X was living with.

If she'd just said once to me, you know, I don't like it when you do this, I wouldn't have, or at least, I would have tried very hard not to.

I think, just because it's true, doesn't mean someone's got the right to spread it around. Hey, if I tell you I'm promiscuous, should you put my phone number up in the men's room where we both work with a little note that says for a good time, call b33j? I think not.
posted by b33j at 3:09 PM on April 2, 2007

b33j,

What, I should have said "for a BAD time, call b33j"? Very well.

I agree that truth is at best a partial defense here. But people dish to smaller circles all the time, without it rising to the kind of public humiliation you're describing. Better never to talk behind someone's back . . . even to complain about someone else who's been talking behind your back.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 4:22 PM on April 2, 2007

This 'friend' probably didn't know which stuff shouldn't be gossiped about (and you probably hadn't gauged correctly what level of confidence was appropriate.)
[snip]
Don't blame her for your mistake in being too revealing in your life (just be a bit more judicious in who you pick to reveal so much to.) But still much of it was her inability to keep her mouth shut (and communicate appropriately about sensitive or personal details.)

Whoa. We don't know that anonymous was specifically oversharing. You live with someone, they tend to know intimate stuff about you. They know when you're in your room crying over some schmuck, how often you argue with your parents, they remember that time you got shitfaced and fell on your face on the carpet, they've heard you have sex, they know about that time last year that you got food poisoning and were on the toilet for days, and plenty of other personal details (or ammo for snark) that aren't purposefully revealed.
posted by desuetude at 4:31 PM on April 2, 2007

I am also not even really sure what we mean by "gossip" here. If I tell someone about my life that I don't want other people to find out, I specifically clarify that I'm discussing this in confidence; otherwise my assumption is that it's just "news" in general, and the only reason it's unlikely to travel far is that it's just not that interesting. But I wouldn't be offended if people shared their opinions or information about me when I'm not there - if anything particularly surprising or upsetting happened, I'd basically expect people to find out, and if boring news about me travelled, I'd just assume people were bored that day and would completely forget by the next anyway. There are plenty of better topics of conversation than other people's dumb problems.

Basically, just talk to her like a grown-up. if this comment bothers you, find out more specifically what she said to who, and if you are uncomfortable with her having done that, your friendship will probably fade away. But there's no need to get too worked up about it, I don't think. Communicate what you're feeling, find out what happened, and make personal choices that suit you & support what you believe a friendship should be.
posted by mdn at 6:40 PM on April 2, 2007