Comments on: I'm Arsenal

Question: I'm Arsenal

roofus — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 13:13:13 -0800

In England it's common for football (soccer) fans to declare their team allegiance by saying "I'm X" rather than "I'm an X supporter". For example today I overheard this snippet of conversation: Football supporter 1: "Are you Liverpool?" Football supporter 2: "No, I'm Arsenal." It's as if the team defines an entire person. Where and how did this turn of phrase evolve, and is it common with any other sports in other places?

By: nevercalm

nevercalm — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 13:50:00 -0800

I constantly correct my US sports-loving friends, who always talk in terms of "we" and "us" and say things like "we need to improve our pitching/defense/whatever." Doesn't answer the question exactly, but it does illustrate that talking like one is part of the team is not unusual (tho no less ridiculous).

By: markovitch

markovitch — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:17:25 -0800

there are tons of ways sports fans try to blur the line between themselves (ourselves, really. i'm in this category) and the teams/players we support. Tattoos, '______ 4 Life' paraphernalia, in England the whole 'firm' thing, etc. Have I ever said 'I'm ____'? no. but this might related to differences between my English and British English. To that end, it's likely related to the language economy that happens over time:

"are you a supporter of Liverpool FC, the greatest team to ever wear red?"

"why no, you sod, I'm a supporter of Arsenal, the greatest team in the world."

quickly becomes

"are you _ _____ __ Liverpool _____ __ _______ __ ___?"

"no, __ __, I'm _ ______ __ Arsenal, ___ ___ ___"

cheeky example, I know, but it's cutting out the chaff--the question seems to be a basic 'friend or foe?' type arrangement. It may also be true that there are far more crazy dedicated Footie fans out there than other sports: i don't identify my fandom of any team in any sport as the defining characteristic of my person or personality, but one can imagine a situation in which this exchange would determine whether any further interaction would be amenable to either party, or if they'd trade angry stares and insults from across the pub.

I recently attended an Arsenal game, and at the pub after, an opposing supporter jovially asked my companions (hardcore Gunner folks) about a call that was in the game. After a brief and friendly exchange, the other guy left, and for the next 20 minutes the Arsenal fans derided his person, appearance, where he was from, questioned his sexuality, the species of his father, etc. It was all in good spirits, I suppose, but I've never ever seen anything like that in the states, save between Red Sox and Yankee people.

so there's my half baked thoughts on the What and the Why.

@nevercalm: i'm not quite sure what you're correcting.

"we invaded Iraq."

not me, of course, and not a majority of the people of Britain/USA/'Coalition of the Willing', but the use of 'we' is common from pundits, reporters, citizens, etc.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:17:33 -0800

I imagine it's an easier way to say "I'm FOR Arsenal."

By: SpecialK

SpecialK — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:44:28 -0800

By: SuperNova

SuperNova — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:52:56 -0800

This is also common with american college sports, but there it rose up out of alumni rooting for their school. Usually it involves the mascot for their school, as in, "I'm a longhorn." "Oh, I'm an aggie." (*Fists fly*) ... even if neither of the people went to those schools.

True enough, but nobody would ever have a truly English-style conversation like: "Are you Texas?" "No, I'm A&M." Also, it makes more sense with colleges because (except for Notre Dame, I think) it's typical for students of the school to be called by the nickname, regardless of how much they support the sports teams. And, conversely, if a casual fan who didn't go to the school said, "I'm a ___", it might be a little weird, though not that unlikely.

By: holgate

holgate — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:08:46 -0800

In England it's common for football (soccer) fans to declare their team allegiance by saying "I'm X" rather than "I'm an X supporter".

I have to say that it's not common to me, except perhaps in situations where people are watching a match on the box and it's a shorthand for who you're shouting for. In that case, it's generally in situations where people have temporary allegiances, such as who to support in the FA Cup final when your own team isn't playing.

Then again, I may have heard it in situations where there are local rivalries: 'Are you [Liverpool or Everton, Rangers or Celtic, City or United]?' In situations like that, the allegiance really is defining in a way that's rare in US sport, save for the Yankees/Mets and White Sox/Cubs.

(Tangentially: 'My old man, said be an Arsenal fan, I said "f*ck off, bollocks, you're a c*nt!"')

By: alicesshoe

alicesshoe — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:15:46 -0800

In Canada, well, Toronto, the phrase is ]insert team name[ 'YOUR TEAM' SUCKS./ Alternatively, you describe yourself as a 'your team' fan.

As a Canadian, going across the border to watch a hockey game ]home Cndn team[, you'll get razzed, but not in an unfriendly way. All good natured fun. They are used to home Cndn jerseys in their rink.
However, the same town at a football ]NFL[ game is totally the opposite. Be prepared to have big gulps ]2 litre size[ of pop raining down on you throughout the game, followed by giant boxes of extra buttered popcorn, then peanuts and then the hot dogs. Easily.
I don't know if this is in any USA town, but Buffalo, yep. A different crowd, indeed. As a matter of fact, even if you wear apparel of another football team not even playing, other than the home team, you're going to be soaked. At least.

I have seen home town team tats among the truly young and rabid fan. After all, Canada is a colony of UK... is that why¿ Dunno.

By: bink

bink — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:28:35 -0800

(to the tune of Frere Jacques)

We are Metro
We are Metro
Piss on you
Piss on you
You've got no cojones
You've got no cojones
Ours are huge
Ours are huge

(RIP Metro)

By: rob511

rob511 — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:23:30 -0800

Seems to me this is yet another example of sporting lingo that's taken on a life of its own. (If you learned English by watching American football, you might think the word was pronounced "DE-fense" ... or that players never "attended" or "graduated," but were always "out of" X institution.)

By: Deep Dish

Deep Dish — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:31:07 -0800

players never "attended" or "graduated"

well that would be making an assumption in most cases which would prove to be false.

By: rob511

rob511 — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:43:45 -0800

DD, my intent wasn't to impugn the athletes, but to draw attention to sportscasters' invariable use of the odd phrase "he is out of" such-and-such college or university

By: smackfu

smackfu — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 18:15:02 -0800

I constantly correct my US sports-loving friends, who always talk in terms of "we" and "us" and say things like "we need to improve our pitching/defense/whatever."

And man is this obnoxious when peo9ople "correct" this.

By: nevercalm

nevercalm — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:09:52 -0800

Sure, if you've got no sense of humor. We manage to laugh about it every time, somehow.

By: philomathoholic

philomathoholic — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:27:12 -0800

Here's a non-sports example. I heard a long time ago, through a dubious source, that Americans will tend more often to say 'I am philomathoholic', rather than 'my name is philomathoholic'. The source also said that Europeans would tend to do the opposite.

On reflection, it was actually 'I am a doctor', rather than 'I work as a doctor'. But it's still confusing their personal identity with something that a person cannot be identical with (ie. a name, occupation, sport-team).

By: lostburner

lostburner — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 22:51:43 -0800

At my school, the biology department has been divided into two separate departments: EEMB (ecology, evolution, and marine biology) and MCDB (molecular, cellular, and developmental biology). Typical exchange at a party:

"Hey, what are you studying?"
"I'm a biology student!"
"No way, me too! What's your major?"
"Aquatic biology, what's yours?"
"Oh, aquatic? I'm MCDB..." Both parties wander away from each other, embarassed to think that they mistook someone who was [opposing department name] for someone they had something in common with.

It's understandable shorthand for "I'm an EEMB student."

By: lhall

lhall — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 23:18:21 -0800

The closest term I could think of to describe this convention is "identity absorption", which I read about in Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics":

This is illustrated in English when, as explained, a car accident occurs. You wouldn't say, "His car hit my car," but rather, "He hit my car!" or even, "He hit me!" (link)