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Operation Ring-Around-the-Gold-Digger
March 26, 2007 12:32 PM   RSS feed for this thread Subscribe

How do I keep my dad's girlfriend from inheriting his estate?

This is not necessarily a legal question. My father isn't dead. However because of his health problems (intimidating) and his lifestyle (hard and fast) my sisters and I have accepted that it could happen at any time.

I have always imagined that the house he lives in-- the one we grew up in-- would come into my/our hands when he dies. I've even flat out mentioned to him that I would like to live there again someday, and that if he ever decided to move that he should consult me first, as I might be interested in working out a deal with him. He's always been happy to discuss it in a very theoretical way, but isn't too forward-thinking on the matter. He has asked my sister to be the executor of his will because of her geographical closeness, so I know he has made some plans, but he doesn't like to talk about them with any of us.

In the meantime he has obtained a girlfriend who is not much older than I am. He took up with her not long after his long engagement failed. She is pretty obviously in it for the security and the improvement on her lifestyle. She is basically a submoron but is sweet enough to the old man that he has let her move in (something he swore he'd never do, because she has a menagerie of adopted animals). She cooks and cleans and coos babytalk over him in our presence, in a way that is frankly presentational, all the while making occasional gestures that are defensive and territorial. We (the children) are all in our twenties, she is in her early thirties. As she has gotten more comfortable with their arrangement, even my father has noticed that she rarely changes out of her sweats, rarely wears makeup, and has basically assumed the role of middle-aged housewife-- though he is dependent on her company and her support during his medically trying times, and doesn't seem unhappy (yet). He's in his fifties and is ornery enough that I think he feels lucky that anyone wants to spend that much time with him. Meanwhile she seems to have nested herself down and put her feet up and seems pretty satisfied to have found a good thing. Dad's not wealthy at all, but the lifestyle she's sharing with him is yards above where she used to be. She has made zero effort to get to know us, though we all know her life story. When we visit she either talks to us like babies or like distant acquaintances, and then retires to bed shortly after we arrive.

We're worried because over the span of their relationship he has become more xenophobic, more paranoid, less compassionate, and more complacent. His previous girlfriends always seemed to breing out the best in him, but with this one he seems to share a lowest common denominator.

Her presence has interfered with our enjoyment of our father's company, but we're all adults and we keep trying to accept her or wait it out. But now we're realizing that she's in a prime position to interfere with his estate if the worst occurs. Dad's very anti-marriage, but I'm afraid of her wearing him down or achieving common-law status.

Basically I want to neutralize her or corral her influence on the matter, but barring that I'd at least like to know her situation better than she does. The state is Arizona, and they have been together three years. His health is deteriorating steadily-- at about the rate that she is getting fatter off of him. Is there any way to throw a dent into her plan? Is there a way I can approach the subject with my dad that won't make him think that we hate her? What can three ambitious, intelligent young people do to to influence, intimidate, manipulate, scheme, and connive our way into a better relationship with our father despite this person's tactical blockade, and protect his legal and financial interests to boot?
posted by BE ADEQUITE to human relations (62 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
You need a lawyer. Or at least someone who is experienced with this kind of thing. There are steps you can take but it is easy to make mistakes that will both make things confrontational with your dad and hurt your claim later on.
posted by frieze at 12:36 PM on March 26, 2007


You're more concerned with your inheritance than his present happiness. Good luck discussing that with him.
posted by smackfu at 12:42 PM on March 26, 2007 [7 favorites]


influence, intimidate, manipulate, scheme, and connive our way into a better relationship

Not possible.
posted by kmennie at 12:54 PM on March 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


What can three ambitious, intelligent young people do [vulturespeak clipped] (to have) a better relationship with our father?

You could move in with your Dad, cook and clean and support him through his medically trying times. You could recognize his standing as a competent adult able to make his own decisions as to the company he keeps. You could try being his family.
posted by jamaro at 12:57 PM on March 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


I don't think Arizona is a common law marriage state.

You need a lawyer.

To do what, exactly?

What can three ambitious, intelligent young people do to to influence, intimidate, manipulate, scheme, and connive our way into a better relationship with our father

That's hilarious. As kmennie said, this isn't possible. Is it a better relationship you want, or your dad's house?
posted by amro at 12:57 PM on March 26, 2007


Seconding the lawyer discussion- this stuff varies a lot from state to state.

The bad news for you is that if they marry, you're probably out of luck. The only way I know of is to keep reminding him that any changes in her favor are changes away from your favor, and is that what he really wants? If yes- well, you're SOL. But a lot of people forget that- all they know is that they're giving something. They forget that that means someone else DOESN'T get it.
posted by small_ruminant at 12:59 PM on March 26, 2007


dude, there's not much you can do, as bad as it is when one doesn't like one's dad's girlfriend (or one's mom's boyfriend), your father is still compos sui. telling him that his live-in girlfriend is in it for the money and he should leave everything to you kids before he croaks prematurely in his fifties requires a good deal of chutzpah. and it's possibly not really productive.

and it's not about laywers. I'm sure Paul McCartney's kids consulted one too when he remarried, you know what I mean.
posted by matteo at 1:01 PM on March 26, 2007


*sigh*

I knew this would come up. Look, smackfu, I think I pretty clearly mentioned ways in which her influence has been really poor on him. And I really am grateful that she is there for him to count on during the times when he's been incredibly ill. So it is more complicated than that.

I could live with losing property, valuables, and family history to a loving wife. Not so much to an unimaginative cashier whose sole accomplishment in life has been the situation I have described. At what may be the end of someone's life, these matters bear consideration, especially in the presence of sudden (and tacky) variables.

It's easy for you to judge me, because you haven't heard the woman ask fully grown people if they need to "potty".
posted by BE ADEQUITE at 1:04 PM on March 26, 2007


What can three ambitious, intelligent young people do to to influence, intimidate, manipulate, scheme, and connive our way into a better relationship with our father despite this person's tactical blockade, and protect his legal and financial interests to boot?

how can you fake a relationship to get legal and financial control of the estate of a man who's becoming less and less healthy?

not in this lifetime should you get that kind of help here.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 1:06 PM on March 26, 2007


Is it possible that he is becoming "more xenophobic, more paranoid, less compassionate, and more complacent" because his health is failing rapidly (as you mention several times) and he is facing death?
posted by milarepa at 1:08 PM on March 26, 2007


What can three ambitious, intelligent young people do to to influence, intimidate, manipulate, scheme, and connive our way into a better relationship with our father despite this person's tactical blockade...?

I guess that should have been posed, "What can three ambitious, intelligent young people do to to influence, intimidate, manipulate, scheme, and connive our way around this person's tactical blockade?"

Our relationship with daddums is otherwise incredibly healthy.
posted by BE ADEQUITE at 1:08 PM on March 26, 2007


What matters here is not Arizona law, not their marital status, not anything else but the contents of his will, which he has every right to keep private from you. Even a lawfully wedded wife can be strictly excluded from a will, as long as it is a legally valid will and he was compos mentis when he drew it up.

You can also ask him bluntly what is in his will, what to expect when he passes on, and whether or not his new girlfriend will be named in the will and to what extent. You can also edge your way up to the subject by inquiring where his "latest" will is kept, in case of accident.

These questions are ill-mannered and improper, so you can expect to be rebuffed. But he might surprise you by answering them honestly. He might further surprise you if his honesty reveals something to you that you don't care to hear.

If he has no will, you are definitely at risk. You could start by encouraging him to make one.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:09 PM on March 26, 2007


I could live with losing property, valuables, and family history to a loving wife. Not so much to an unimaginative cashier whose sole accomplishment in life has been the situation I have described. At what may be the end of someone's life, these matters bear consideration, especially in the presence of sudden (and tacky) variables.

It's easy for you to judge me, because you haven't heard the woman ask fully grown people if they need to "potty".


her "accomplishments" include keeping your father happy and helped him get better during times of need. not exactly a small task.

how she treats you only has bearing on you, not on your father. she doesn't have to like you, you don't have to like her, if your father enjoys your company it is his choice to do so and to compensate her however he sees fit.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 1:09 PM on March 26, 2007


Well, don't put it the way you have to us.

Instead of focusing on "how can we keep the golddigger from inheriting," a gentler and kinder approach may be to focus on "I really want the house to stay in the family and I would like to raise my own kids in it -- can we make sure that this is in writing."

As for her influence on his personality, I think the only way to mitigate it is for you and your sisters to spend more time with him. Even if she does have an evil plan to take him for all he's worth, accusing her of this will just put you in a very bad light and make you sound selfish and defensive. Take the high road.
posted by desuetude at 1:11 PM on March 26, 2007


Yeah I agree with most of the sentiments above but do you know if he's given her any power of attorney in the event he becomes incompetent? Maybe you should try to get that for yourselves while he is able to make decisions. That would be my first protective step.
posted by spicynuts at 1:11 PM on March 26, 2007


she rarely changes out of her sweats, rarely wears makeup, and has basically assumed the role of middle-aged housewife-

unimaginative cashier

you haven't heard the woman ask fully grown people if they need to "potty".


That's it? That's her transgressions against you? She isn't selling your dad's china for heroin or gambling your inheritance on scratch-offs. I don't even see how coming from a lower socioeconomic class is a 'tactical blockade' to things.

It is not up to you where his things go when he dies. If there's some heirloom you absolutely would love to have, and I mean have to enjoy, not just hoard in your attic to keep her hands off of it, just ask. That's about as much as you can do.
posted by pieoverdone at 1:13 PM on March 26, 2007


So, your question is how you can decide what your dad does with his own stuff. Am I reading that right?

Best answer goes to jamaro.
posted by odinsdream at 1:13 PM on March 26, 2007


I could live with losing property, valuables, and family history to a loving wife. Not so much to an unimaginative cashier whose sole accomplishment in life has been the situation I have described.

I guess I am reading it right. Your focus is completely misplaced. You aren't losing anything, because it isn't yours to begin with. If your dad decided to give it to you for whatever reason (good or bad), then it becomes yours, after taxes. Only then could you lose it.

The choice is not, and never will be yours. He could leave all his stuff to Ethiopian cats if he wants. The reasoning is not important. The girlfriend's character doesn't enter into this at all, except to you, but your opinion doesn't matter.
posted by odinsdream at 1:16 PM on March 26, 2007


Common-law marriage doesn't apply in Arizona.
posted by curie at 1:17 PM on March 26, 2007


Actually, I relate to this. A woman moved in as "roommates" with my dad years ago. At first I thought she was harmless & when I visited my dad she would try so hard to befriend me that it was a bit weird. Then my radar went up when I found out that she'd been using his credit cards & that she's on disability and has been living rent-free on my dad for years. This woman is a total toxic loser, but my dad is getting old & was lonely so he let her do this stuff.

One day I found out that my dad had allowed her to talk him into taking her on a cruise to Alaska and that she had somehow come back wearing a ring. Sooo, I went into crisis management mode and drove two hours to visit him and take him to lunch on the spur of the moment.

Prior to lunch, I saw the woman in the kitchen and noticed that she was very suspiciously trying to hide the ring on her right hand. She kept doting on and beaming about my father, VERY clearly acting for my benefit because my dad kept saying "I haven't seen you come out of your room in 2 days, where have you been?" I asked her to hand me a bottle of water and she actually went out of her way to open up the fridge and hand me water entirely with her left hand while keeping her right hand in her pocket. She's right handed.

As we were about to leave for lunch, I asked her if she could throw the water bottle in the recycling for me and threw it to her. She caught it with her right hand. I looked at her straight on and said "Nice ring." She got very flustered and said, "Oh yes, it's just a little cheap thing." I looked her in the eye and said, "Well, it was cheap for you. But I'm pretty positive that it wasn't cheap for the person who actually spent the money to buy it. And you'd better remember that." And then I turned around and walked away.

In the middle of lunch I calmly discussed my worries, making it clear that I didn't care where the money went half as much as that I wanted to be sure he understood how the scenario was looking from an outsider's perspective. My father has an immense amount of macho pride so I had to be careful... if I worded it wrong I was afraid he'd just go out and marry her to stubbornly spite himself and prove I was wrong or something. So I worded it in a way where he knew I was coming from a caring daughterly place & that I wasn't trying to tell him what to do or to stand in the way of actual happiness or to be a vulture waiting for my inheritance. I made it clear that I was simply very concerned & that I think he's a smart man who knows how to make good decisions so he should keep his head clear because I was getting some bad vibes about this woman and I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. I told him about her trying to hide the ring, and I said, "If her intentions were honorable, she wouldn't have tried to keep that ring from me. Think about it."

She still lives there so I'm not thrilled about that, but he finally started charging her some rent. I know that without her my dad would be totally alone and that scares him so while says he's kicking her out I don't know that he will. What I do know is that after our talk he seems to have stopped letting her walk all over him & he doesn't say many nice things about her anymore. (I guess he figures having someone around that you don't like is better than having nobody at all.) So I'm not nearly as terrified about it as I once was.

So I don't know what your relationship is with your dad but if you can't talk to him then definitely see a lawyer. If you can talk to him though, it can help if it's done really really really carefully. Just make sure that it's clear you are coming from a place of love and not greed.
posted by miss lynnster at 1:21 PM on March 26, 2007 [4 favorites]


Talk about a situation where nobody is able to separate themselves from their motivations.

Pretend that it's already all gone. Carry on as if that's the case. Probably, one day, you'll wind up finding out that it's not. You'll enjoy whatever you get then all the more if you haven't spent years looking forward to it.

A house is nothing. A life... now that's something.

If that's really just not going to work for you and you are determined to interfere in some way, then I recommend you start getting to know her way better. Call the house just to speak to her. When you're in town, take her out to lunch. Ifentify the strings that move her through life. You'll need to know where they are when it comes time to cut them.
posted by hermitosis at 1:23 PM on March 26, 2007


Gah. "Identify".
posted by hermitosis at 1:23 PM on March 26, 2007


Talk about a situation where nobody is able to separate themselves from their motivations.

No kidding. This question really irritates me—I mean, your feelings are perfectly human, but surely you realize that your father has the right to do whatever he wants with his property, no matter how much it disappoints you? As it happened, I (and my brothers) inherited (and sold) my father's house after he died, which was nice monetarily, but I would much rather my dad had found a woman to share his final years with, even if it meant we didn't get the house. If you really care about your father, you should feel the same way. Like hermitosis said:

You'll enjoy whatever you get then all the more if you haven't spent years looking forward to it.

My parents always told us we shouldn't expect an inheritance, because they were planning to spend it all themselves. That sounded perfectly reasonable to me. As it happened, we did get something, but I'm glad it came as a pleasant surprise.

It's easy for you to judge me, because you haven't heard the woman ask fully grown people if they need to "potty".

And this to you means the woman is a bad person, an unworthy companion? Grow up.
posted by languagehat at 1:31 PM on March 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm reminded of A History of Tractors in the Ukraine.

The woman is filling a role, providing companionship to your father, which you and your siblings apparently don't have the time to do. She doesn't sound super-evil, at least from your post here. Is she a gold digger? Is she malicious?

And to reiterate what has been said above: your dad's house isn't yours, it's his. I suppose making sure he has a valid will and you or your siblings are the executers of his estate is the way to go anyways.
posted by chunking express at 1:39 PM on March 26, 2007


Anna Nicole Smith anyone?

There's no fool like an old fool. Yes, he has the right to do as he will but there are tons of people out there who are con artists who thrive on this sort of situation. He can and should choose what he wants to do but it needs to be a choice and not a manipulation nor a con.

I'm an only child and I figger my inheritance will be spent taking care of my folks in their dotage. That, and the Nature Conservatory.
posted by konolia at 1:42 PM on March 26, 2007


BE ADEQUITE, you say
I really am grateful that she is there for him to count on during the times when he's been incredibly ill.

and in the next paragraph..

I could live with losing property, valuables, and family history to a loving wife. Not so much to an unimaginative cashier whose sole accomplishment in life has been the situation I have described.


You describe your father as being dependent on her company and support. You don't say anything about how much support you are offering him with his medical needs. If this woman is acting as a full time caregiver to your father, what is wrong with her having a place to live and some of her expenses taken care of? If you had to hire someone who was just doing caregiving as a job and did not have as close a relationship with him, it would probably cost a lot more.

If the house and any special furniture really means a lot to you for sentimental reasons, and you don't care what your dad does with his other assets, tell your dad that. Encourage him to write a will. After that, just because you think you should inherit does not mean you will. Even if he was to leave everything to you and your siblings, there might be nothing left in the estate after his death.
posted by yohko at 1:44 PM on March 26, 2007


And this to you means the woman is a bad person, an unworthy companion?

No, this was just an example of why I find her personally odious. There are lots of reasons as to the other. As milarepa said, it's always possible that he has changed because of his health. But I really don't think so-- these changes seem to exist within and as an extension of their home life. When I get him out of the house and spend time with him away from her, he is the same as ever. She indulges him, eggs on his racism and paranoia, and basically reinforces the views that we kids (along with his previous partners) have spent years making headway against.

Sorry to have irritated you. How's the view from the high road?
posted by BE ADEQUITE at 1:47 PM on March 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


And this to you means the woman is a bad person, an unworthy companion? Grow up.

Come on. It doesn't mean she's necessarily a bad person, but it does tend to suggest a certain degree of patronizing infantilism that, were I in the same shoes, I would find abominable.

She is what she is: a sponge. Not as rarefied or villainous as a gold-digger, more like a pilot fish waiting for scraps in the symbiotic relationship she has with your father. Since he's not in a common-law state, I'd recommend two things: 1. Hope he doesn't move, 2. Hope he doesn't marry her. Unfortunately, as years go by, the cohabitation glue will only strengthen his desire to make sure she's "taken care of" after he passes. So really your best bet is to do everything you can to keep the filial bonds tight. Call or email (if he's tech-savvy) all the time. Visit as much as you can. Send postcards if you travel. Keep yourself in his recent memory.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:51 PM on March 26, 2007


If she is saying this to your dad, it might be because he needs assistance with this sort of personal care. There is no nice comfy way to ask this of someone, and "potty" might be the best way they have found of dealing with it.

You might have liked the previous GF's better, and you might find it more virtuous if she was to dress differently and wear makeup (a strange complaint -- would it please you if he spent money on clothes and jewelry for her?), but this is who he has now. He's ill, and has someone in his life who can care for him. Appreciate and be grateful for that, if nothing else.
posted by yohko at 1:55 PM on March 26, 2007


Maybe you could talk to him with your sister, who is the executrix and ask him what HE wants to happen if he does go.
It is up to him and what he has put in his will. A lawyer can do nothing for you, unless he is incompetent, it all depends on what his will says.
posted by lee at 2:05 PM on March 26, 2007


yohko, the comment was to my 25 year old sister and I. "Do you need to go potty?" Potty is not something that we go. It just isn't.

Dad's not bedridden, and he doesn't go "potty" either.

It's a given that dad's ladies are going to be tacky broads. Some of them are better than others. My comment on the makeup was to demonstrate that the second she moved in, she gave up the pretense of maintaining her appearance. I haven't seen her out of her bedroom slippers in two years. Fortunately dad is starting to feel a little cheated by the fact that his vivacious young thing he thought he was taking on is MIA, replaced by this dumpy mustachioed hausfrau with a limping doberman and a steak-a-day habit.
posted by BE ADEQUITE at 2:05 PM on March 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm a bit confused. I thought that he wasn't at all wealthy, so how much of gold-digger can she possibly be?

However, in the spirit of giving SOME sort of answer, I believe the classic "soap-opera villainess" method to "intimidate, manipulate, scheme, and connive" through this situation would be to (a) entice some gigolo to seduce the woman (using whatever means of enticement are handy to you) then (b) confront the father with evidence of the infidelity.

That said, when you find yourself faced with the methods of a soap-opera villainess, you may want to re-examine your goals.
posted by tyllwin at 2:13 PM on March 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


[a few comments removed. take metacommentary, any further "grow up" comments and snarkasnarka stuff to METATALK]
posted by jessamyn at 2:16 PM on March 26, 2007


I think the main thing is that you need to separate yourself from this on an emotional level for a moment. Pretend your father has nothing to give you. Pretend that no matter what, you would have no inheritance. Expect nothing for yourself and do not judge this from your own perspective for a second. THEN look at the situation.

In my case, I saw that this woman doesn't really care for my father. I saw that she ignores him unless I'm around. That she is healthy enough to earn money but doesn't -- because she doesn't have to thanks to my father. Instead she sits around getting fat and smoking pot and sneaking out in the middle of the night (neighbors told me they saw it). I saw her convincing my father to spend thousands of dollars to take her on a cruise and buy her a ring -- because knowing my father neither idea would've been his idea. I her getting my father to spend more money on her than he has on me since I was 7... even though I knew that they weren't having sex.

**EWWW. JUST USED THE WORDS "SEX" AND "MY FATHER" IN THE SAME SENTENCE. MUST SHUDDER.**

Okay, I'm back. Anyhow... here's what I'm saying: do you see that this woman genuinely loves your father? Do you see that he genuinely loves her? Is there an actual loving relationship going on that each one finds emotional comfort and stability from? Because that is not a bad thing... that is something that I WISH my father had. I would give up my inheritance in seconds if he found happiness instead of this tub of lard nasty piece of crap golddigging loser that he calls a roommate. Since she is obviously in it only for herself, I am forced to consider her a cockroach that has infested my family. But your situation might actually be different if you think at it a little more objectively and from a less possessive standpoint.

How she dresses is superfluous to this. It doesn't matter if she looks like Mimi from the Drew Carey show. It doesn't matter if YOU are attracted to her because she's not YOUR girlfriend. It is the least important thing in this equation. It's not important at all, actually. I'm sure you've had a few ex-boyfriends who dressed like shit, right? Is that why you broke up with them? Probably not. So concentrate on the core of what your problems really are, not the superficial points.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:17 PM on March 26, 2007


I think the best way to do this is to stay very close to your dad but don't cause any friction between him and his girlfriend by excluding her. Take them out, invite them to dinner, road trips, run errands for him, etc. It is doubtful that you can exclude her from his will and you have no right to do this.
posted by JJ86 at 2:28 PM on March 26, 2007


To summarise:

1. I hates this woman - look at my creative hate verbiage!!1
2. I wants the money - money money money!!1

In response, I hope you get what you deserve. ie. nothing
posted by reklaw at 2:30 PM on March 26, 2007


Oh, and I meant to address the "potty" thing. I don't know how old this woman is, but my mom went through a babytalk phase that DROVE ME INSANE. She didn't talk babytalk to me when I was a baby, but suddenly one day it seemed that she & her friends all started doing it. Nothing more disturbing than watching a bridge game of women speaking like toddlers & thinking it's cute or something. GAH! I think some women just have temporary brain anneurisms or something and don't realize how freaking annoying they are behaving. I finally had to tell her that if she said "potty" or referred to herself as "mommy" one more time that I was going to walk out the door and never step foot in it again.

I made my point. She stopped. I'm happy now.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:31 PM on March 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


Well, I dunno. I think you should just be honest with your dad and get him to make out a will. According to this common law marrage dosn't exist in AZ, so you don't have to worry about that.
posted by delmoi at 2:34 PM on March 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


reklaw, just mellow out. I know it made you feel superior to interject that insult & all, but I can tell you first hand that it's hard to work through your emotions & issues when you're in the situation she is in. You don't want to be greedy... but... there's that. And you want your dad to be happy... but he's YOUR dad, he doesn't belong to her. There are SO MANY deep issues that are kind of difficult to sort through in this scenario and sometimes you have to face sides of yourself you didn't know exist & learn how to calm them down. Our relationships with our fathers & mothers are so complex, and they're so rarely easy.

They push our buttons because they put them there.

I've got to say... when you find yourself in that kind of situation, as a girl worrying about her father being used by a woman you consider unworthy of your father, you are thrown by it. It's really hard to empathize with before experiencing it though. It's so easy to see it as black and white when it's a million shades of gray sometimes. BE ADEQUITE is probably not the caricature one-dimensional selfish girl you seem to think she is, any more than the girlfriend is a caricature one-dimensional selfish woman.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:40 PM on March 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


How to make someone do what they (apparently) don't want to do?

Make it so they do want to do it. It's why you put dog pills in peanut butter.

If you want the things your father is giving someone else you need to be bigger in his life than that person. You need to cook better food more often, clean better and more often, make him feel more vital and happy than she does.

Hope to god that when I'm old and my children have left the house and I don't have a spouse that I can find a 30 year old to cook and clean and coo over me.

If anyone tried telling me what to do with my stuff after I died it would be a sure way out of my will. My stuff. Not yours.
posted by Ookseer at 2:41 PM on March 26, 2007


People are piling on you pretty hard and you're clearly not liking it, but you might want to take a step back and try to think objectively about why the feedback is so one-sided. First, people are unsympathetic to those who start grubbing for an inheritance. You may THINK she's doing it, but we KNOW you are. (You used the word ambitious.)

Second, if she's made no effort to get to know you and avoids you, it might be b/c she has picked up on your hostility. I can't imagine that she enjoys having her boyfriend's judgmental kids coming to visit. Maybe try to see what your dad sees. Or at least appreciate that she cooks, cleans, and otherwise takes care of him, and treat her accordingly.

Third, you can't approach the subject with your dad without him thinking you hate her because you clearly do hate her, and he probably already knows that.

Fourth, what will be more important to you after your dad dies--the inheritance or your relationship with him and his comfort (provided by the gf) during his failing health?
posted by Mavri at 2:51 PM on March 26, 2007


Even a lawfully wedded wife can be strictly excluded from a will, as long as it is a legally valid will and he was compos mentis when he drew it up.

This is not exactly correct in most states. If there is a marriage plus a will that does not leave anything to the spouse, most states have an "elective share" that the surviving spouse can claim (usually one third).

Arizona does not seem to have this elective share system (IAAL but IANYL and I Am Not a Probate Lawyer), but does provide certain rights to surviving spouses excluded from the will. See e.g. Ariz. Rev. Stats, tit. 14, section 2207 (circumstances under which surviving spouse may waiver rights), 2301 (surviving spouse generally entitled to intestate share if will executed prior to marriage), 2402 (homestead allowance for surviving spouse), 2403 (certain exempt property to surviving spouse), 2404 (family allowance for surviving spouse).

If there is a marriage and no will, and there are surviving children who are not the children of the surviving spouse, the surviving spouse is entitled to 1/2 of the separate property and 1/2 of the community property. Ariz. Rev. Stats, tit. 14, section 2102.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 3:43 PM on March 26, 2007


Your Dad's an adult, and he is free to do whatever he wants with his possessions. No one wants to feel that they are being manipulated for their stuff, by either their lovers or relatives. If you try and work some hoodoo, you may find it backfiring if his paranoia attaches itself to you or your siblings. The best plan of action is to be as genuinely good to your Dad as can be and hope for the best. It really, really sucks to be in your position, but the sooner you accept that there is nothing you can do to force things to go your way, the more naturally you can behave toward your father and his girlfriend, and the greater chance of him not changing his will in her favor.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:48 PM on March 26, 2007


[please take extended meta-commentary to metatalk or email]
posted by jessamyn at 3:56 PM on March 26, 2007


I want to thank those who have been able to see past my indelicate description of the situation and offer real advice or life stories.

As for the rest of you, I don't know what else to do but hope that your fathers marry racist bimbo cashiers and leave them everything.
posted by BE ADEQUITE at 4:06 PM on March 26, 2007


What matters here is not Arizona law, not their marital status, not anything else but the contents of his will, which he has every right to keep private from you. Even a lawfully wedded wife can be strictly excluded from a will, as long as it is a legally valid will and he was compos mentis when he drew it up.

I'm not sure this is true. It probably varies by state, but at least in some states, I think that a married spouse may automatically get a portion of the estate that's not excludable. (It's been a long time since I've done any research on this, though; it's possible I could be wrong, or that this could be a parochial New England-ism.)

However, children definitely can be excluded, so if the OP's father decides to leave everything to the bimbo, that's that.

I don't really know of any good way to bring the subject up with him. The only thing I can think of, is trying to get him away from her for an extended amount of time (few weeks, or so) with the rest of the family, so that he realizes you're all still around for him.

IMO, when people cut out their family members from their estate, it's usually punitive -- it's a way of saying "well, you didn't talk to me for the last 10 years, so hell with you." (And, to be honest, I think that's their right to do.)

So I guess what I'm saying is, you have to let your father know that it's not just this woman (that you don't like) who's concerned about him, and that she's not the only person in his world. But you have to be ready that as obnoxious as you find her, your father seems to be OK with her, and is probably going to compensate her in some way when he dies.

If you don't want her to inherit more than you, you need to find a way of being as much an influence in his life as she is. Or at least, not out of his thoughts completely.

Not that you should do this just because of the inheritance issue, but if you don't call him regularly, like every week or few days, maybe you should think about it? Just stay involved, and don't let his girlfriend drive you away.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:39 PM on March 26, 2007


TO: Stock characters and plots in Dickens, Austen, et al.
FROM: AskMeFi
RE: Inheritance, romance and relatives, etc.

Really, these matters are not your concern: whether property goes to cats or kids is a point of indifference, and if a family matter has an affair of the heart, it is presumptively to the good (and if it were not, it would have ended, for we are all of us rational free agents). Move along, and fret instead about routers or the name of the sitcom in which everyone had funny hats.

****

I would say, continue to earn your father's trust and confidence, do nothing that suggests to him that you value his property more than his happiness, and remember that any smack you talk about the companion may be repeated to her -- and she has the advantage in terms of time spent together in making a counter-argument.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 4:39 PM on March 26, 2007


Is there a way you can buy the house from him now? Perhaps promising to him that he can stay there "as long as he needs to", but you take care of the taxes, yard, etc. so that he doesn't have to worry about it? Actually, this sounds kind of cheesy and not completely honest, but maybe someone can come up with a better variation.
posted by amtho at 5:47 PM on March 26, 2007


I see this all from a slightly different perspective. My parents died and left us nothing. They had nothing at the end of their lives. That was fine with me.

However, I seem to be doing somewhat better than that. I have one child, and if I died and my husband gave everything we had worked all of our lives for to some brain-dead whore (that's what a person who exchanges sex for money or goods is, after all), I'd haunt the hell out of him. Things that we worked for together belong to our child. Period. Things that were from either of our families belong to our child. Period.

Anything he earns after I'm gone is his to do with as he pleases (as though he'd do such a thing - or I would, in the reverse situation). I come from a screwed up family, but we're not that screwed up.

In all of the marriages and divorces and deaths that the various members of my family have gone through, family things always and only went to family.

By the way, a friend of mine was on the receiving end of all of this. Her mother is a floozy (the best word ever invented). She married a guy for his money. $3 mil. My friend could justify all of it. Her mother gave him comfort. Her mother was smarter than he was and would make better use of the money. His kids didn't really need it.

3 years, 3 mil gone. Not a penny left. The second the money was gone, so was she . My friend and her mother are living in poverty. What an absolute waste.
posted by clarkstonian at 6:01 PM on March 26, 2007


Been there. They ended up married, he's putting her grandchildren through college while my kids are working their fingers to the bone to afford it, visits her drunken, wife-beating son while ignoring me and my family, and gave her all of my dead mother's belongings, which she then gave to her daughter. Oh, and cut me off from all communication for the past 12 years by refusing to pass on messages, refusing to be available for visits and basically villainizing my brother and me.

Count yourselves lucky that you still have contact with your dad and find yourself another house.
posted by nax at 7:12 PM on March 26, 2007


Well, you're describing a pretty textbook example of why some people kill other people, if you wanna get all Jim Thompson about it.

Otherwise, listen to Miss Lynnster and Amtho.
posted by klangklangston at 7:17 PM on March 26, 2007


As for the rest of you, I don't know what else to do but hope that your fathers marry racist bimbo cashiers and leave them everything.

Gee. f--- you too.
So, you're bitter. Why take it out on your dad (And perfect strangers who are trying to help) in a way that makes you look greedy?

When my father died he was worth $1 million+. I got sum total of $0.00. Fair enough. It was his. He spent his life earning every penny and it was his right to do what he wanted with it in life and death. I could have found uses for it, but it was never mine.

I know you don't like it. But it's not your life it's your father's. He's certainly old enough to make his own choices. If I was your father I'd appreciate a little respect for it rather than a cat fight.

You seem to be incredibly self centered and completely unable to see this from your father's point of view. Please try it.
posted by Ookseer at 2:06 AM on March 27, 2007


Unattractive, unintelligent, untalented, unlucky, unloved, racist, pushing forty and this is the best she can do with her life. Imagine where she's going to be in ten, twenty, thirty years. Contrast that with where you and your siblings are going to be in ten, twenty, thirty years and be grateful that you aren't in her shoes.

Grim comfort, if that's what you're looking for. As to right now- not much you can do, really, other than to try to spend time with your declining parent.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:22 AM on March 27, 2007



As for the rest of you, I don't know what else to do but hope that your fathers marry racist bimbo cashiers and leave them everything.


I think you aren't competently reading some of the advice being given. If my dad marries a racist bimbo cashier and leaves all of his possessions and money to her, (which, funny enough, is pretty likely), I don't care. Why? Because it's his fucking stuff and he gets to decide what to do with it. If he left instructions for it to be trucked to the middle of the fucking ocean and dumped in, I wouldn't care.

Why? Can you fill in the answer? You ought to be able to by now. If you can't, you have failed to understand the most important advice in the thread.
posted by odinsdream at 6:48 AM on March 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Some of you people dumping on the OP are real materialistic assholes. I can say this, because you accuse the poster of materialistic interest, when the poster has clearly stated a more sentimental interest, in the house in which they were raised.

I suppose it is totally 'kewl' to express yourselves this way. You're not of an age, most of you, where sentimentality holds much sway. Okay, but don't insist everyone else exist in such a shallow materialistic void as you do yourselves.

I wish I could help Be Adequite here, as I totally sympathize with the situation. In my family, it was my grandparents house that was impossibly special, mostly to my sister and I (there only grandkids). We freaked when they sold their impossibly beautiful dinning room set to a friend of my aunt's (for a small fraction of its value). My sister tried desperately to manage to buy the house when the time came for them to sell. But it wasn't possible.

Yes, the poster's problem is clouded a bit with discussion of the perceived short-comings of her father's girlfriend. But such things are normal. (At least my dad is too old to get a gf, and the house is long-gone).

I can only think that the best thing you could do, Be Adequite, is be nice to the girlfriend, who is, really, doing you and your sister a favor by caring for your father. Be nice, be supportive towards her efforts. While at the same time, do discuss drectily with your father your interest in the house. Make sure he understands the value it holds in your heart.
posted by Goofyy at 7:03 AM on March 27, 2007


I read this question again this morning and I was struck by how unappealing parts of it were, but even more by the hostility of the reaction. I think advice on AskMeFi skews absolutist -- not knowing the poster, or the details, makes people bring the binary. (Difficult relationship? Dump him, idiot. Bad boss? Quit now -- life's too short.) I think it'd be helpful here if we took seriously the possibility not only that the OP's perception of the girlfriend is affected by his material interest (among other things), but also that the father's thinking is no more clear or rational. It's not unprecedented for someone vulnerable to be adversely influenced by another, and to do things they might regret. And it's not unnatural to be concerned about that person. Maybe those of you experienced with parents and newcomers might address the question while putting inheritance of the house to one side. I think that's consistent with the OP's objective of moving "into a better relationship with our father despite this person's tactical blockade, and protect his legal and financial interests to boot."
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 7:29 AM on March 27, 2007


But Odinsdream, it's not about how you feel about your father and his possessions. The cultural tradition comes down on the side of certain types of property being kept in the family and inherited. You don't put much value in this? Fine. But BE ADEQUITE does, and that doesn't mean that anyone who is pleased to use grandma's china or live in the family home is only concerned with the monetary value of those things or getting something for "free."

(Hoping that the lesson that it is ill-advised to be flip when discussing such matters was taken, though. BE ADEQUITE, I went through an admittedly much milder version of this with my grandfather when he married his "housekeeper"...the ensuing bitterness wound up causing permanent riffs between my father and his sister. From experience, I'll advise that hating this woman will damage you more than it will her.)
posted by desuetude at 7:48 AM on March 27, 2007


I still say: look in the mirror a bit, sort through your own feelings, put your emotions and bitterness aside, and see if you can find a way to start up a private dialogue with your father that comes from a caring, non-selfish, non-inheritance related, loving daughterly place. Communicate with him, listen to him, respect him, do not tell him what to do but let him know that you care about him and have concerns. DO NOT DO ALL OF THE TALKING. Then tell him, "I don't know if you know this, but the house really means a lot to me." and be sure you speak your piece or he might not know how you really feel. Say it without expecting him to give you the house, without demanding the house, without saying you deserve it, but just to express your feelings. In the end it is his choice to do whatever he wants... and if you are a good daughter in this situation, you might just earn his respect. And he might just give you the house after all, who knows. But don't demand it or think it is owed to you. As other people said, the negative feelings will hurt you more than anyone else.

Communication can go a long way sometimes. That conversation I had with my dad actually brought us a lot closer than we had ever been, because it showed that I cared about him. We've gotten along much better since. And for that alone, I'm really grateful.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:24 AM on March 27, 2007


The cultural tradition comes down on the side of certain types of property being kept in the family and inherited.

This is really changing, especially with real estate. I've noticed the people in their 20s may assume that a house will stay in the family. But people who are older may know more about how expensive it is to keep a house in the family if no one is using it as their primary residence and paying all of the upkeep and taxes and insurance and so on (that's assuming there's no mortgage). And usually the family home can't be used as a primary residence -- all of the kids have moved away for employment or education, or are living in their own spaces that are designed for their situations (e.g. smaller and more affordable or whatever). In short, most often the house has to be sold no matter who inherits it.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:58 AM on March 27, 2007


This is really changing, especially with real estate. I've noticed the people in their 20s may assume that a house will stay in the family.

I think that the variety of reactions to the idea of an inheritance in this thread demonstrate this! But I mean over, what, at least the last ten centuries or so, inheritance of property has been a major component of human societies. So yeah, it's "just a house," but the attachment to the idea of property passing to children runs deep.
posted by desuetude at 12:12 PM on March 27, 2007


I doubt anyone is questioning the existence of a cultural attachment to the notion of hereditary property, but surely you understand that the father's opinions on the matter, in this case, are more important than those of his progeny, yes?
posted by odinsdream at 11:20 AM on April 1, 2007


Update! It is my pleasure to inform you that the girlfriend is OUT of the picture.

I was starting to get concerned because the lady in question was starting to reach out more to us "kids". She sent my sister a mesh purse that she knitted out of hot pink plastic lanyard cord, which basically looks like some sort of huge internal organ, but hey, it's a purse you can apparently carry along into the shower if you want to, so perhaps it will come in handy at some point.

According to my dad, he finally got disturbed by the extent to which she began to pressure him about marriage (and treat her dobermans like babies) so he asked her to move out. He is pretty upset about this, but the three of us kids have been very supportive and now feel a little more comfortable letting him know how much we felt cut off from him because of her.

Thanks to those of you who understood why this was a problem and could at least commiserate. Decisions about who inherits what can be contested for all kinds of reasons, and the idea of a person who I don't trust and consider incompetent potentially winding up with so much influence over such a senstive matter has been very frustrating. If I don't inherit the house or his prize possessions, great, I don't give a shit as long as I know the decision was my father's. To have his wishes compromised and mediated by an outsider's opportunism, though, would be galling.

I'm glad that we (his children) wound up contributing nothing more than stony silence toward the erosion of their relationship, and those of you who chose to lecture me did at least give me pause, allowing nature take its course.
posted by BE ADEQUITE at 7:21 AM on May 16, 2007


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