Am I too crazy to be in a relationship with a virgin?

March 19, 2007 10:13 PM

I never thought that I would ask a relationship question, but I also never thought that I would be 28 and dating a virgin. Please help me with my virgin (and my craziness).

A little background: I've been overweight my whole life, regardless of what I ate. Last year I was diagnosed with PCOS and as many of the symptoms, such as ease in gaining weight and difficulty losing it, are tied to how my body processes insulin, it was recommended by my doctor that I give up my 12 year vegetarian diet and try a more low carb diet. I did so and managed to lose about 90 pounds in a year and a half. I have about 60 more to lose before I'll be at a weight that I'm comfortable with, and I promised myself that I would not get involved with anyone during this time, as my weight has ALWAYS ruined my relationships, regardless of my partner's feelings on the subject. Enter, the virgin.

He sent me an e-mail a few months ago (we both like a relatively obscure musician) and we started e-mailing daily. It was pretty obvious after the first two messages that we were on the same wavelength, which rarely happens for me, and is seemingly similarly rare for him. We decided to meet (even though I heard alarm bells) and our first date lasted about 8 hours and was wonderful. At the end of it we made out for a bit, which is no big deal for me. But he e-mailed me the next day and at the very end of the e-mail he confessed that he was a virgin.

At that time I was involved with someone in a purely sexual capacity, because having decided to not get romantically involved, I still wanted to, you know, get some. I told my 24 year old virgin that I wasn't looking for a relationship, but only for sex at this time in my life, and he was pretty okay with that and volunteered to replace my other guy.

We had a second date at which time we attempted sex, but he was unable to get a full erection. We tried again the week after, but this time, while he could get an erection, he couldn't sustain it upon penetration. In the meantime, our dates had become progressively longer and sweeter and more wonderful. We made the decision to not try to have sex again for a while, and to do "everything but" which has been a lot of fun, though he hasn't been able to reach ejaculation. I can really only get myself off so my lack of orgasm isn't worrisome.

My issues are thus:

- I spend most of the time that we're not together worried about my weight and whether or not that is a factor in his inability to get off.
- He has no issue at all getting an erection lately, but now that we're more emotionally involved, I think we're both too freaked out about it possibly not working to try again anytime soon, which is kind of going to be a problem, because I really enjoy having sex. We've discussed me having other sexual partners, but I'm not really the sort who sees more than one person at a time, and I wouldn't want him to get the idea that i'm not satisfied with our relationship.
- I am not currently emotionally equipped to deal with any of this. Before I got involved with him, I was happier every day with my body, and now I'm back to hating myself and feeling worthless. The fact that warmer weather (and having to wear less flattering clothing around him) is coming does not help with my anxiety.
- It feels like we're falling in love with each other, and I wonder if I should end it before that happens.

I also wonder if he's just become so accustomed to sex being between his hand and porn (which I can relate to completely) that he's having issues transitioning to real girl sex. But, in that vein, I wonder if he's spent all of this time fantasizing about blond hardbodies and is having difficulty becoming aroused by a very non-blond softbody. He says that it's not that, but it's not really something you would admit to the person you're seeing. We'e discussed pretty much everything and he's very understanding even when he doesn't understand.

The fact that this is bothering me so much and is making me feel so awful about myself makes me think logically that I should just end it now before we get even more emotionally involved. But we really do get along insanely well and he feels kind of like home already. So, should I end it? Or any advice with coping with my doubts? I also want to stress that when we're together, I hardly ever think about any of this; there are no words for how happy he makes me.

[e-mail] if you have any questions.

posted by anonymous to human relations (32 comments total)

Only one thing to say: One thing you might consider is that he's as anxiety-prone about his ability to maintain an erection in the presence of a girl, and about being a 24 year old virgin, as you are about your weight. Because that's really what you're describing, that you have anxiety attacks -- and I can say from my side that having an anxiety attack will make a guy lose a woodie faster than seeing his grandma naked will.

If he makes you happy, don't end it. Sex can be had anywhere, and you'll both eventually figure out which one of his buttons to push. (Just like you know which one of your buttons to push.) Happiness is really, really hard to find.
posted by SpecialK at 10:23 PM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites]

If this guy had serious issues with your weight, he wouldn't be in bed with you in the first place. You sound like you're having fun - continue to do so. You're both a little anxious, but it sounds like you're communicating your anxieties to each other- continue to do so. The other things will work themselves out.
posted by chrisamiller at 10:42 PM on March 19, 2007

A common theme here on AskMefi is guys who can't get it up - despite being with a girl who is incredibly hot, the girl of their dreams, etc, etc. Even non-virgins have issues with this now and then, and the anxiety (or excitement - no, the other kind) of getting some for the first time just adds to that. So it's quite likely it's not you.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 10:45 PM on March 19, 2007

This guy is me a year ago. I was a virgin till 25. Then i hooked up with a lady and I had a few man troubles the first few times. and then a crazy thing happened, I stopped worrying about it, the girl stopped worrying about and before i knew it i wasnt a virgin anymore.

Please keep trying. It sounds as if you are both good people and could be great for each other. Every aspect of a relationship takes work, but it sounds like you are doing well in some and just need a little work on this one aspect.

also booze. not too much, but just enough can take that edge off, which can help.
posted by lrobertjones at 11:03 PM on March 19, 2007

Reality check: You are the desirable, experienced one here. You have been around the block, because you have a fancy car that everyone wants to... um... ride in. You have the power. He is probably very self-conscious about his lack of experience, and worried about whether he can be a good enough lover for you -- since you've been with others, he's worried he won't compare.

He makes you happy, you seem to make him happy, yes? It's rare for you to find a guy who's on your wavelength? The obvious answer is, give this a chance to work.

Also, at the risk of mefi cliche, maybe talk to a therapist about your feelings about this stuff? Esp if you have felt that relationships generally sabotage your body-image... how does that happen? Were those past incidents a matter of partners being mean to you about body issues, or were they a matter of you thinking the partners were dissatisfied, "reading between the lines"? It might be good to work on toning down your internal imaginary "what he's thinking" voice -- because that imaginary voice sounds like it's wrong, and it's interfering with the real signals your guy is sending.
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:04 PM on March 19, 2007

This idea you have in your mind, that you will attain your perfect (or at least acceptable) weight and then, at last, you will be worthy of love, is an illusion. If you're going to dump this poor sweet fucker because you will not abandon that illusion at least be clear and honest on the fact.

But remember this: we are not perfect and we are not perfectible.

Any problems he had were anxiety, perfectly understandable given the circumstances, all your problems are just anxiety, perfectly understandable given your history, but for the sake of the future regrets I, the mighty and all-knowing nanojath personally guarantee you will have if you just go ahead and bail now out of fear, at least try fucking a few more times.
posted by nanojath at 11:35 PM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites]

If he didn't think you were attractive, he wouldn't be doing everything apart from sex with you.

If you end it now, you might avoid future troubles but along with them you'll also be avoibing possible future wonderful times and happiness.

I had trouble the first time I had sex. We kept trying, and after a few bumbling blunders, we got better and better at it. If he's worried that he'll make mistakes, wont be good enough etc, then let him make mistakes, let him know that it's fine, and then, hopefully, the mistakes will fade away.

He sounds wonderful. He sounds like he's worth the effort.
posted by twirlypen at 11:45 PM on March 19, 2007

Here is the fruit of the slack tree. We have cut it for you specially - please do eat of it.

What everyone else said, plus addressing your last couple of concerns:
- yes, being used to wanking unlubed may be a problem. There is many a Dan Savage column on this point. Luckily it is a problem easily resolved by frequent penis in vagina sex and handjobs with lube. I don't see him objecting to that.
- understand that there is a vast gap between available wank material (porn) and what actual turns any individual person on. He is getting erections, he wants to have sex with you, and he has assured you of his desire. If you step back and try to be objective, you'll see that is all the evidence that you rock his boat that anyone could reasonably furnish. So don't question it.

(And furthermore, by your own testimony, apparently you were having sex with someone else just recently, and believe you have prospects of having sex with yet more people in the near future. Clearly your shape is NOT a turnoff. Your fears are utterly understandable, because we do live in a horrible society for women that reinforces those fears greatly, but nonetheless: they aren't justified. Firmly tell that nasty voice to fuck off and die.)
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:57 PM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites]

I am not currently emotionally equipped to deal with any of this.

I hate to be a downer, but this is the part that stands out to me. Take some time off to sort out whatever you need to get together emotionally. If he's a good guy, he'll understand.
posted by Mikey-San at 4:02 AM on March 20, 2007

I think you need to be in therapy to deal with things around your body image and self-esteem. That's where I'd start. Good luck.
posted by sneakin at 4:04 AM on March 20, 2007

Listen to SpecialK and Joe's spleen.

I was a virgin until 30, and sex didn't feel anything at all like I'd expected it to. It took a good while to get used to, and until I had, I worried that I was maybe doing it all wrong; and that kind of worry is not good for the erections :-)

She was a little overweight, too, and totally gorgeous. I've been overweight most of my life (though I wasn't then). Overweight doesn't matter.

Whenever he goes soft, just tease him mercilessly until he goes hard again. Once his body and his expectations get back into sync, you'll be writing back asking us all how to calm him down :-)
posted by flabdablet at 5:02 AM on March 20, 2007

flabdablet means tease as in titillate, not tease as in taunt. i hope.
posted by sonofslim at 5:54 AM on March 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

The fact that he is having problems sustaining erections might not be that he doesn't want you, but that he REALLY, REALLY DOES, and is so stressed about being terrible that he has a, ahem, failure. My boyfriend knew I was a virgin and he wanted to have sex with me, so, so much, that the first time we tried, he was so nervous that he couldn't get/keep it up for a while.
Admittedly this did only happen once (so I think once you've done it once, you'll be fine) but honestly, try not to take it to heart. It might be because he cares about you so much.
posted by trampesque at 6:18 AM on March 20, 2007

Keep trying and don't worry about your weight AT ALL. He thinks you are beautiful, and you are. He's just anxious. After all, he is a 24-year-old virgin, and clearly you are the woman of his dreams. Understandably, he's nervous! Give him some time, and things will all *ahem* come together before you know it.
posted by dead_ at 6:59 AM on March 20, 2007

There are counselors that deal in exactly these kinds of issues. He should see one if the situation continues.

"I also wonder if he's just become so accustomed to sex being between his hand and porn (which I can relate to completely) that he's having issues transitioning to real girl sex."

That's possible. It's also possible he's not masturbating enough! The mind is the strongest aphrodisiac. Maybe he doesn't know how to use it. After all, he's used to practicing self control, and I'll bet a lot of that is mental as well.
posted by xammerboy at 7:20 AM on March 20, 2007

Your weight is not a factor, otherwise he wouldn't keep coming back for more. You are worrying too much, although "stop worrying" is never helpful advice. If you keep trying it will happen. A friend once told me that for men with little experience and performance anxiety, it is helpful if the woman takes control, applies the condom and climbs on top. After the first time it's suddenly much easier. If THAT doesn't work, he should get some pills from the doctor to get him through the first time. Then, after a bit of practice, he'll be fine without. If the dude's 24 and still a virgin he must be a little anxious about this (cause and effect could be either way around) and any problem with his wood is in his head. It's not your weight.
posted by nowonmai at 7:40 AM on March 20, 2007

Please do not be afraid of falling in love. That's a pretty bad reason to break up with someone.
posted by amtho at 7:53 AM on March 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

1. Don't break up with him especially if you're really falling in love.

2. A certain amount of discontent at yourself is healthy if it prods you to improve yourself—don't you hate people who think they're already perfect? So don't be too hard on yourself for being too hard on yourself—just try to moderate it to the point where it's not paralyzing you. (Also: What the mighty and all-knowing nanojath said.)

3. As for the sex, practice practice practice. Don't let sex become a Big Thing between you. It should be fun. Sit the boy down and explain "look, if we're going to be together, we're going to be having a lot of sex. A lot. Got it? So we need to get you up to speed." He will laugh nervously, and you will tear his pants off and go down on him. Give him a copy of The Joy of Sex with some of your favorite sections flagged, and then get him to go down on you. There are so many ways you can enjoy sex with another person that you can't on your own—he'll learn that quickly enough.
posted by adamrice at 8:00 AM on March 20, 2007

You might go for Guide to Getting it On instead of JoS.
posted by canine epigram at 8:08 AM on March 20, 2007

You cant expect a completely inexperienced guy to go from zero to 'casual sex' without lost of complications. I think youre asking way too much from someone unequiped to handle it and from my reading of your essay, he sounds like the person with the most problems.

First off, very few people in the US reach that age without at least one serious sexual partner. Those who do usually have some kind of issues attached with sex. Maybe he's neurotic or has an anxiety disorder. Maybe he has other psychological hangups. Your assumption of him only being able to relate to 'blonde hardbodies' sexually reveals your needlessly negative attitude and self-loathing.

I doubt someone who has been sexually inactive for the first 25 years of his life can suddenly be this instant sex machine with no feelings attached. Casual sex is difficult for the experienced and impossible for the inexperienced. If you cannot handle a caring relationship that involves weeks or months of patience and handholding in bed then you probably should go with your gut and break it off. He deserves a caring partner who understands his current limitations.
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:38 AM on March 20, 2007

First off, very few people in the US reach that age without at least one serious sexual partner. Those who do usually have some kind of issues attached with sex. Maybe he's neurotic or has an anxiety disorder.

Oh, give me a break. Maybe he just recently ditched an anti-sex religion. Maybe he takes sex seriously and hadn't yet met anyone worth the time. Maybe he was busy doing other stuff. Maybe he's shy. Maybe just picky. Maybe he went to an all-boys school and didn't socialize with girls much.

Or maybe my virgin-until-23-years-old self is also neurotic and full of sex-related issues. (Note: This is ridiculous. I am awesome.)

But yeah, if he's awesome and you think you're falling in love and you're on the same wavelength, jump in with both feet and keep on experimenting until you find something that works. Virgins are just people. You can handle that. Joy of Sex, Guide to Getting It On, different positions, porn, erotica, more sex with no intercourse, lots of teasing, it'll happen.
posted by heatherann at 8:59 AM on March 20, 2007 [3 favorites]

The fact that this is bothering me so much and is making me feel so awful about myself makes me think logically that I should just end it now before we get even more emotionally involved.

Here's the thing: you're operating on the assumption that you'll be better equipped to deal with this kind of thing in 60lb. Why? In my experience the people who Have Issues don't correct them with external changes - at best they trade them for different issues. I know a formerly fat kid who is now the biggest Himbo I have ever met. Being in shape didn't solve his issues, they just became different ones.

You say your weight has always ruined your relationships, however that's bunk - your reaction and/or your partner's reaction to your weight has always ruined your relationships. That's not an insignificant distinction, and you need to be mindful of that because those behaviors in yourself and others don't just go away because you got thinner.

Partners who start wanting to Change You are going to find things other than your weight to think about. In a less distressing but similar vein, partners who are worried about your health - and carrying 150 extra lb is a reasonable thing to worry about - may be concerned about other aspects of your life. Drinking, smoking, driving fast cars, etc.

Coping with bad people and learning to negotiate concerns with your partner about their life (when you're looking at a life together) are just skills you have to work out. You may as well work them out now, with this person who you care about.

Your issues with hating yourself might change as you get thinner as well, but they may also just manifest themselves in a different way. We all have things about ourselves we dislike and we have to learn to identify the ones we can't possibly change - like, say, height - and the ones we can change with surgery or behavior, as well as the ones that are reasonable to want to change and the ones that are simple Want Tos.

To me the fact that you can go from feeling good about yourself and your progress and prospects to feeling shitty just based on your emotional relationship is a big screaming siren that says you are going to have to embark on somewhat of a mental self-help as you have a physical one. Or put another way - you're having this reaction at 60lb to go. Why do you think you won't have it at 40lb to go? Or 20? Or 3oz?

This man's being in your life doesn't change the fact that you managed to lose 90lb. It doesn't prevent you from continuing to make progress (since I am assuming he's not force-feeding you or demanding you give up some critical exercise). The fact that someone liking you and enjoying you is causing you to feel worthless is completely backwards - you see that, don't you?

If you simply cannot deal with these issues now, there's nothing wrong with that. Cut the cord and walk. But identify the issues you can't deal with now and the ones that you just don't want to, and seriously question your belief that an issue now is going to somehow else become a non-issue later.

Because you have someone on hand who likes you, and who you like, and when you'll find those kind of people is unpredictable. They're not as rare as a sober Kennedy, but they're sufficiently unusual that you shouldn't toss one aside without good reason.
posted by phearlez at 9:06 AM on March 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm surprised no one's suggested your boy acquire some Viagra. It's still fairly easy to score via the Internet, though expensive. The thing is, not only does it do wonders for sustaining an erection, at the same time it can relieve the anxiety that's (potentially) causing the problem in the first place. Obviously, a few blue pills are no substitute for therapy (which I recommend for virtually anyone), but it's definitely a lot cheaper and quicker to bring results.

I'm with most of the posters here - this guy probably has severe anxiety, which is only going to get worse. Not only does he have to learn his way around something that he knows you (and almost everyone else) is already proficient at, he's almost certainly aware (and afraid) of how his performance will affect your self-esteem. Taking the erection-in-a-bottle shortcut could solve all of these problems at once.
posted by Banky_Edwards at 9:11 AM on March 20, 2007

frankly, this looks like a huge pain in the ass -- this thing is only making you feel bad and it doesn't seem that it is worth the not inconsiderable trouble. I'd write it off as a bad experience, it had potential, OK, but sometimes things just don't gel.
posted by matteo at 9:41 AM on March 20, 2007

Sounds like simple performance anxiety on his part, and nothing to do with you. Don't make a big deal about it. Make the bedroom a comfortable and inviting place. Put some toys in there so he can please you, even without an erection. He could try some Viagara or Yohimbe. If you are having a good time, just stick with him for awhile. I'm sure it will all work itself out.
posted by Roger Dodger at 10:07 AM on March 20, 2007

Taking the erection-in-a-bottle shortcut could solve all of these problems at once.

Pointing once again to:

I am not currently emotionally equipped to deal with any of this.

Viagra doesn't solve emotional issues. OP should be sorting out herself rather than trying to deal with her virgin pseudo-boyfriend's sex problems.
posted by Mikey-San at 10:08 AM on March 20, 2007

my guess is that it's waaaay more about his anxiety than it is about your weight. trying lubed handjobs will be fun, help him be more comfortable around you, and get him more used to the feeling of actual sex. have a little bit to drink then pull out the lube and go-to!
posted by twistofrhyme at 10:17 AM on March 20, 2007

Even (especially?) those of us who have been having intercourse for years have had this happen. Whenever my partner and I have a separation of longer than a couple of weeks, it can take a few days to get back in synch with each other, and it happens to both of us. I'll go soft, then just when that starts working again she'll get all dry, then I'll come too soon, or won't be able to come, and so on. We just laugh, and after a try or three things are great again. But I can remember the first few times I had any problems, back in my first relationship, and it was devastating. I took it as a self-failure, she took it as a criticism of her as a sexual partner; neither of us knew how to talk about it nor had the confidence to just laugh and move on.

I'd suggest, if you have the time and cash, that you guys take a long weekend (three days, at least, more if possible) and enjoy a long romantic getaway in a hotel or bed and breakfast somewhere. Partly just because it's fun, and everyone deserves a vacation. But also because it will give you time together without the nagging pressures of your everyday lives, and where you can create a nice cocoon of intimacy. Everyone has their own sexual rhythms -- late nights, or mornings, or afternoons -- and I think part of what is going on is that you, as a couple, haven't found yours yet.

I would also suggest very strongly that, whether or not you take this trip, he needs to stop the masturbating completely. He needs to retrain his body to orgasm from you (whether vaginal, oral, by hand, rubbing on your thigh, whatever). This won't happen if he keeps up the five-finger shuffle. Yes, he will get frustrated (in fact, that's the point), but if he can restrain himself, and you keep trying, I think that eventually things will click. Once sex (oral or intercourse) is working at least somewhat reliably, he can restart the masturbation, but until then he needs to lay off.

Lastly, if there is a safe and comfortable way to do so (that is, all the usual testing, pregnancy precautions, monogamy, etc), intercourse without a condom is sometimes a lot easier, especially at first. You don't need to have as firm of an erection, and the greater sensation can help prevent softening. (Although that greater sensation can also help in causing premature ejaculation; but you can solve that problem once you get there.)
posted by Forktine at 10:48 AM on March 20, 2007

'I also wonder if he's just become so accustomed to sex being between his hand and porn (which I can relate to completely) that he's having issues transitioning..."

For what it's worth, this is a real possibility.
posted by Zephyrial at 11:11 AM on March 20, 2007

Try it first thing in the morning. They don't call it "morning wood" for nothing.
posted by kindall at 12:28 PM on March 20, 2007

Scenes from sex with a virgin:

Boy (nervous over being naked for the first time): Disappointed?
Girl: Don't be stupid. Come here.

Boy: I kind of don't know what I am supposed to do. I'm a virgin.
Girl (knew that already): You were born knowing how to do this. It's easier than eating, it's easier than walking, it's the easiest thing in the world. Come here.

Boy (has lost his erection): Oh my god. I'm sorry.
Girl: You are going to have to get used to that. It's just a sex-with-another-person thing. It happens all the time and to everyone.
Boy: But this sucks! What's the matter with me?
Girl: Nothing. Or at least every other guy I've known had the same thing wrong with him. If you have a problem with losing your hard-on, you are not going to like sex, because that will definitely happen to you from time to time. Who cares? I just want to be here with you. Come here.

You have to be confident. You're the one who knows how this is supposed to go. If you are all insecure and tripped out, you will make him twice as insecure and tripped out. None of this is a big deal. Sex happens, doesn't happen, kind of happens -- who cares? You're together, enjoying each other's company, right? If you are really having a frustrating time with this, masturbate in front of him, looking in his eyes. He won't mind!
posted by Methylviolet at 12:54 PM on March 20, 2007

johnny-come-lately says: JUMP HIS BONES!!!!
if you want it
and if it's up
and if you want it exclusively
and if it'd make you feel better about your body
and if he's a virgin (read:he wants it)
and if he had trouble getting it up (read:he wants it but he's nervous)

well...

sounds like the best thing for you is to initiate a willing, wanting soul into the wide world of physical love, so as to prove to yourself that you are, in fact, quite desirable (you saucy minx, you!)

and also the best thing for him, the poor virgin (with good musical taste!) is to be initiated into the world of physical love on the the most intimate level by a kind, conscientious soul like you. you, groovy music lovin' ish, who wouldn't eff with a virgin before consulting the great unconventional wisdom that is askmefi...

best case scenario: you and he fall deeply in love and marry, or elope, or do whatever is hip amongst the kids these days

worst case scenario: you realize he's not ready for you...and still he has a "1ST SEXUAL EXPERIENCE" that he can look back on with pride, admiration, and gratefulness.
posted by es_de_bah at 2:39 AM on April 6, 2007