Comments on: Are treasure maps real?

Question: Are treasure maps real?

bugloaf — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:42:19 -0800

Has an ancient document ever led to an archaeological discovery?

This seems to always happen in the movies: The hero translates some ancient document or digs up some ancient map which leads him to some buried treasure. For example, the Indiana Jones movies or the Tomb Raider movies. I wonder if there are any archaeology-themed movies that don't follow this pattern. Does this ever happen in real life?

I know things have been discovered that were previously only known about through ancient texts, such as the lost city of Ubar or the Gospel of Judas, but I'm not asking about these. I'm asking about discoveries that were found with direct help from an ancient text. I expect that there are none.

By: MasonDixon

MasonDixon — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:54:24 -0800

I imagine that many of the ancient Near Eastern cities, such as Ur of the Chaldees, Nineveh, etc. mentioned in the Bible were only known through the texts and were discovered later.

By: carmen

carmen — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:22:11 -0800

It seems like you are asking about "treasure maps" rather than "ancient documents," since you seem to be ruling out ancient documents that mention something being in a place but don't provide direction to it. Is that correct? Or is sufficient that the mention of a thing in the ancient text, even if it didn't have directions, alerted archaeologists to the thing's existence and prompted the search for and discovery of that thing?

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:23:05 -0800

How about Troy? It was only known through the oral tradition of the Illiad and was later found in Turkey. It was "lost" which is to say unknown to the ancients and modern people for quite some time.

I'm not sure if I'm parsing "previously only known about through ancient texts" correctly. Are you asking if a location that was a secret was revealed in a document which gave directions to the place? I think its going to be difficult to find places that the ancients didnt know about because at one time they had to because they actually lived, worshipped, traveled, etc there. I'm also assuming you wouldnt consider some pirates 'treasure' dumping ground a proper archaeological discovery.

I think this question contradicts itself. The ancients cant know about it, but the ancient had to know about it at some time. Troy is still a valid answer.

By: jamjam

jamjam — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:25:37 -0800

Some scholars apparently still believe that Heinrich Schliemann really did discover the ruins of ancient Troy; Schliemann was inspired in this endeavor by Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, and he did use the descriptions therein to guide his search for geographic features, and he did discover some spectacular treasures.

By: MasonDixon

MasonDixon — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:33:12 -0800

I see now, I think. Are you asking if there are texts that say, "At the Eye of the Needle near the Village of Doom there lies the Golden Tomb of Artamanius."

And it turns out once you properly translate the Ancient Alabagellian Language, someone eventually realizes that the "Eye of the Needle" is a strange optical effect in the Argusz Mountains, and the Village of Doom is a border town, so called because it was sacked over and over again by different invaders.

Is that more what you mean?

By: medium format

medium format — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:36:20 -0800

While I can't offhand recall the specific examples, some Mayan cities/settlements were re-discovered due to their being referenced in the stelae at warring or sister sites.
I believe some of the carvings at Copan also prompted archaeologists to seek out specific burials at the site.
(Does a giant carved piece of limestone qualify as an "ancient document"?)

By: ztdavis

ztdavis — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:42:16 -0800

Perhaps not "treasure maps", but all archaeological digs involve searching for documentation before ever breaking ground.

My fiancé, a budding archaeologist herself that has been on three or four dig sites informs me that all archaeological digs go through these phases. In a quick e-mail she said:

Phase I identification surveys
heres where you look for historical indications there was a site here etc [where you look for documentation]
Phase 2 evaluation surveys
looking at the actual site
you'll do a visual survey, collect stuff from the ground and take a look at where you may have higher concentrations of whatever kind of artifact you're looking for
Phase 3 mitigation or data recovery
basically, DIG

So every archaeological site goes through a phase where they look for clues or historical artifacts or documents in order to figure out where to dig. I can't think of any particular famous discoveries made this way, but you could assume that pretty much all of them are.

By: ztdavis

ztdavis — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:45:46 -0800

Here's a thorough description of Phase I.

By: hydatius

hydatius — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:24:37 -0800

The archaeology of historical periods is pretty much a constant back-and-forth between the material evidence and the textual record. When, for example, something hitherto unknown pops up in excavations in Rome, if it's without anything that may immediately identify it (like monumental epigraphy), the first route to identifying a structure or monument will be to the texts the Romans themselves wrote when they were describing their city. This may help, as perhaps Cicero or Suetonius as an aside mentioned that a particular region of the city contained certain buildings, which might help make an identification of the structures you're looking at in the bottom of the trench. Similarly, as has been mentioned in the reference to Schliemann, there was a time when archaeologists and historians did wander around the countryside with a copy of the Iliad or Appian or whoever tucked under their arm trying to locate specific places mentioned in the texts, and perhaps even dig there. Perhaps these examples aren't what you're after, in the sense that they're not maps. For the classical period, I guess the closest thing would the use of something like the Peutinger Table, with its travel itineraries mapped out, being used to give original Latin names to vanished settlements on the ground of which only archaeological traces remain.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:33:57 -0800

I know things have been discovered that were previously only known about through ancient texts, such as the lost city of Ubar or the Gospel of Judas, but I'm not asking about these. I'm asking about discoveries that were found with direct help from an ancient text.

I do not understand the distinction you are trying to make, and clearly neither do other commenters. Please explain more clearly or you are not going to get useful answers. Troy was the first example that popped into my head, but presumably you know about it, and there is some reason it does not meet your criteria; what is that reason?

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:53:04 -0800

I understood his distinction to be:

This document/map was constructed for the express purpose of helping someone find the place VS. The place was found with the help of documents which had other purposes in mind (e.g. telling a story)

By: dmd

dmd — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:53:54 -0800

I'm pretty sure the distinction he's making is inference versus direction-following.

He's asking if there have been any discoveries made by virtue of an ancient text where the original intended purpose of the ancient text was to help a later discoverer find an object or location.

By: dmd

dmd — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:54:12 -0800

Jinx.

By: googly

googly — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:57:13 -0800

The most widespread example of what you seem to be looking for is the use of old (I wouldn't call them "ancient") records to locate sunken ships that have significant value aboard, such as the 1715 "treasure fleet." In these cases, there is no 'treasure map,' just documentation of the general area in which particular ships sank. But this documentation generally requires augmentation by modern technology to locate the actual wrecks on the ocean floor.

By: RandlePatrickMcMurphy

RandlePatrickMcMurphy — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:26:21 -0800

Many of the ancient cities of China and Central Asia were discovered by examination of ancient texts, as described in Peter Hppkirks' excellent book Foreign Devils on the Silk Road: The Search for the Lost Cities and Treasures of Chinese Central Asia.

All of his books are good thought.

By: RandlePatrickMcMurphy

RandlePatrickMcMurphy — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:26:41 -0800

thought = though

By: jamjam

jamjam — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:40:57 -0800

There is an interesting document which meets the strict criteria other answerers are reasonably imputing to your question, the Copper Scroll:

The Copper Scroll is one of the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Khirbet Qumran, but differs significantly from the others. While they are written on leather or papyrus, this scroll is written on metal, specifically very pure copper mixed with only about 1% tin. Also, unlike the others, it is not a literary work in any way, but contains a listing of locations at which various items of gold and silver are buried or hidden. It is currently on display at the Archaeological Museum in Amman, Jordan.

Except, of course, that much exploration has has yielded no treasure.

By: xammerboy

xammerboy — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:26:51 -0800

Troy is a good example I think.

By: felix betachat

felix betachat — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:16:29 -0800

Since we're mentioning the Dead Sea Scrolls, I'll hearken back to a time when Norman Golb was actually right. Based on manuscript evidence, he aided in the discovery of a medieval yeshiva in Rouen, Normandy.

But man, the copper scroll... Whatever it was John Allegro was smoking back in the day must have been some crazy stuff.

Back in 2000, I was living in the monastery in Emek haMatslevah (the Valley of the Cross) in Jerusalem. The monastery is an 11th century foundation and sits on top of a massive cistern. The superior told me one day that some crazy German had an idea that the treasures of the Second Temple were hidden in the cistern and he wanted to go scuba diving down there to prove it. Alas, nothing came of it.

By: felix betachat

felix betachat — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:23:31 -0800

Oh and bugloaf, you should check out Mogens Trolle Larsen's book The Conquest of Assyria. It's about Austen Henry Layard's excavations of ancient Nineveh. It's not Indiana Jones (which I think is what you're shooting for here), but it is a pretty fun read.

By: Kirjava

Kirjava — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:00:21 -0800

While texts certainly can provide useful information to archaeologists, I can't think of any examples of ancient texts directly leading to a discovery, even though I've studied archaeology and Egyptology at university. Going a bit off topic like everyone else here, an interesting aside from your question is that the ancients themselves used this kind of fictional plot device just like in Indiana Jones etc. of trying to find a mystical text. The Westcar Papyrus records an ancient Egyptian story about the builder of the Great Pyramid, King Khufu, who was searching for secret information about the 'Chambers of the Sanctuary of Thoth' so that he could make copies for his own pyramid. His son finds a magician named Djedi who's purported to know about them and brings him before the king. 'Then the King Khufu, the justified, said, "And how about what they say, that you know the number of the Chambers of the Sanctuary of Thoth?" And Djedi said, "May it please you, I don't know their number, Sovereign, my lord! But I do know where it is kept." And his Majesty said, "Where?" And this Djedi said, "There is this casket of flint, in a room called Sipti, in Heliopolis. Look, it is in the casket." And his Majesty said, "Go bring me it!"' (Translation by R.B. Parkinson). So even if there aren't any real examples of ancient treasure maps, the Egyptians themselves would have probably enjoyed Indy just as much as us!

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:28:26 -0800

Flipping this problem on it's head...treasure maps presuppose somebody having something worthwhile, and taking the time (and having the desire) to bury/hide it AND creating a map or writing a document outlining it's location. The "X" on the map would also have to be a point of reference to some other location that either an be tracked or still exists AND is a considerable distance from the X, so that a map would be useful. People don't generally write documents that say things like "I keep a jar full of giant diamonds under my bed at 123 Easy Street".