$duped$

March 14, 2007 7:32 AM

Late salary negotiations: I'm already at the new job but need to negotiate to correct initial dupery.

At the time of the job offer I was told that everyone in the group is equal (work-wise this is true, we all have the same responsibilities and level of education) and gets the same salary. Upon arrival I found out that many colleagues had negotiated a higher salary (up to plus 18%), except me and some other gullible people that just believed the statement of supposed equality. Now, I already started and I like the job, just not this aspect of "some are more equal" because they asked anyway.

I asked for an appointment to discuss my contract next week, but I don't have the leverage of threatening not to take the offer, because I already have taken it. Ironically, I'm one of the people with the most prior experience, which I will point out, but I'm not sure what else to say and for how much I should ask. What can I do to increase my chances of a fair salary in this situation?

(BTW, I _did_ read the "Women don't ask" book, but apparently I should keep it in mind constantly and become more doubtful of final statements and ask regardless.)

posted by meijusa to Work & Money (15 answers total)

The only leverage you have is that you can walk away from the job, forcing them to find someone new. If you aren't willing to do that, you really are in a poor position to bargain for a better wage. Can you earn more money elsewhere, or are you being paid market rates at this place, with some coworkers getting paid more? If you are making less than you would be able to get elsewhere, you can bring this up as well.
posted by chunking express at 7:42 AM on March 14, 2007

You're being taken advantage of. If they refuse to budge (which is a good possibility), quit. Things will probably get worse, and you don't want to work for someone that doesn't respect their employees enough to be honest to them.
posted by chundo at 7:50 AM on March 14, 2007

I'm fairly comfortable negotiating for lower prices and higher salaries. It's definitely a skill that needs to be developed. However, if I was told explicitly in an interview that all my colleagues would get the same salary, I probably wouldn't ask for anything more. I'd either decide that the salary was enough or move on. That's apparently what you did. However, they lied to you--you were deceived in order to discourage you from asking for more money. That would piss me off, and depending on who gave me that information, would make me question if I wanted to work for that company.

If I were you I'd say something like, "I was under the impression that we were all on the same pay scale, regardless of experience. Since that's not the case, I'm wondering why my previous experience doesn't qualify me for a higher pay level."

Don't let them make you feel bad about asking for more. 18% is a really big discrepancy, especially in light of your prior experience. Maybe you could ask for a short probationary period at your current salary in order to prove your value as an employee. But if they really explicitly misinformed you about the compensation policy of the company, you shouldn't let it go, even if it means you need to look elsewhere.
posted by bluejayk at 7:56 AM on March 14, 2007 [2 favorites]

You won't have much luck if you argue that you want the same as the others; you need to deserve more by your own right. Having more experience is relevant; but there will be a big gap in your logic - why do you beleive you deserve a higher salary than you did a few weeks ago? If you thought the salary was fair then, and you haven't increased your level of responsiblity or performance since then, why do you no longer beleive your salary is fair? "cuz other people have more and its not fair" probably won't fly.

You might have better luck if you wait until the 6 month mark, or whenever you have a review, to argue that your work performance justifies a raise.
posted by Kololo at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2007

Are you certain that others in the same position are making more money? Sometimes people lie about their salaries/bonuses so they feel important. If you're certain, are you sure you're all "equal" as described to you? I.e., they aren't getting raises purely based on length of tenure (which is somewhat but not entirely inconsistent with equal pay).

Assuming the answers to the above are "yes," it can't hurt to raise these issues with the person who hired you. As chunking express points out, your best leverage is the ability to walk away and return to your old job or a new job. Try to come up with some relatively concrete alternatives to your existing job so when you have this discussion so you sound credible when you say you have other avenues available.

I suggest framing this as more of a workplace trust/atmosphere issue than a money issue. Good employers recognize that employees perform better when they believe they are fairly compensated. Although you don't want to poison the discussion with accusations of fraud, you can make the same points more diplomatically, e.g., "one of the features of this job that appealed to me is the egalitarian structure, and I'm disappointed to learn that the structure may be different from what was explained to me." Be prepared to respond to a weaselly parsing of the representations that were made to you previously.

Best of luck and hope you are able to work something out.
posted by brain_drain at 8:00 AM on March 14, 2007

Depending on the employer, you might be able to argue how internal (in)equity issues negatively effect teamwork and performance.

I'm also of the opinion that a company that lies (or evades) about money like this deserves to be threatened with an "...or I'll quit." ultimatum. That is, if you really can walk away. This advice comes to you from someone who recently had to walk away from a salary negotiation.
posted by 10ch at 8:04 AM on March 14, 2007

There really is no need for leverage, is there? All you have to say is, "It seems that you were not honest with me on the subject of payment, which of course makes me concerned. Can we talk about this?"

If you are polite but firm, they will basically have to begin the negotiation on the defensive. I hope they are able to accept the mistake gracefully.
posted by hermitosis at 8:09 AM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]

Unfortunately for you, you've already taken the job, so you're in a weakened position. You have to be willing to walk away if they won't meet your demands. Your new employers have already lied to you about salary, so I wouldn't ask for "fair" compensation. I'd start by asking for the high end of the salary range, and I'd do it soon. They'll be less likely to address this issue as time goes on.

I can't tell from your profile, but I'm guessing that you're female. If that's the case, and it so happens that the other "gullible" people receiving the lower wage are all female, or the people receiving higher wages are all men, then it could potentially be discrimination. No one is saying it is, but you're worried that it could appear that way to others. And your employers might need to be made aware of your concerns.
posted by Gamblor at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2007

I didn't even think of the second point Gamblor raised; if its the case they are assigning wages in a discriminatory fashion, you need to take them to task for that. It's 2008.
posted by chunking express at 8:27 AM on March 14, 2007

The problem is that you were seemingly happy with the compensation when you agreed to the contract. Most employers do not appreciate employees discussing compensation. Although many people do it, HR tends to have concerns with this.

Although you may have more experience than your colleagues who are making more than you, they may have a longer tenure at the company and may have added exceptional value during their time there, thus justifying a higher salary. It would be naive to think that everyone doing the same job makes the same money. Perhaps all employees with comparable experience start at the same salary - after starting at the same point the higher achievers ascend more rapidly than their peers.

If you truly feel hard done by you really need to be honestly willing to leave your job before giving any ultimatums. If you threaten to leave if your company doesn't meet your demands and then choose to stay when they don't, you put yourself at a distinct disadvantage over your peers for the remainder of your time with the firm. You essentially prove yourself to be someone who is willing to accept less than they think they deserve and it will haunt you - trust me, I've been there.

I would advise you work on making yourself invaluable, going above and beyond the job expectations. Keep an updated list of accomplishments so that when your next review comes along you have all the ammo to justify a 10-15% increase. If you add more value than your co-workers you will (all things being equal) advance ahead of them in time.
posted by snatchos at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2007

It's 2008.

New negotiation tactic: pay me what I'll earn next year?
posted by JaredSeth at 9:37 AM on March 14, 2007

Maybe you could ask for a short probationary period at your current salary in order to prove your value as an employee.

Possibly, but from what I've seen, even in the best of companies, promises of raises to come "in x months" or "upon completion of the probation period / performance review" NEVER. HAPPEN. It's too easy to forget, or reschedule the review, or postpone indefinitely, or just deny that the conversation ever took place. And for a company that already lied to you on the subject of compensation, I'd say the odds of this particular tactic succeeding are less than nil.

If they do make any such promises, for the love of Dog, make sure you get it in writing. As in, signed and on real paper, not electrons. That way you'll have something concrete on which to build your lawsuit when they dick you over anyway.

I'm sorry this happened. Good luck.
posted by somanyamys at 10:20 AM on March 14, 2007

I agree with hermitosis - the best way to think (and argue) this is to put it as a communication issue. It's true, you won't get anywhere by arguing "it's not fair," but you might say something like "This salary was lower than I'd wanted to begin with, but I took this job anyway because you seemed like such a great company and I thought the great atmosphere and challenging work would be worth the lower salary. But this miscommuniction makes me concerned." You might have to get even more explicit - "this miscimmunication makes me concerned about the way this company treats its employees." Definitely put them on the defensive.
posted by marginaliana at 11:18 AM on March 14, 2007

they flat-out lied to you. that is indecent, if nothing else. you should tell them to right the wrong they did you and you'd be able to forget about the incident or accept your resignation. make it about them, not you. tell them you're disappointed and stunned they would pull such a stunt. be offended. it's eighteen percent.

you will find out how valued you are then and there.
you can only win - either you get more or you save yourself a lot of time.
posted by krautland at 12:08 PM on March 14, 2007

I must concur with several above in saying that the only leverage you have right now is to be willing to walk away. If you're not willing to quit over this, don't expect a very potent result from your upcoming appointment.

You have to your advantage the fact that they actually did *lie* to you. However, this is only effective leverage for you if you are dealing with people that have a sense of moral responsibility.

Overall, I'm not so sure you should feel duped. The salary you negotiated was satisfactory to you before you found out what others were making. Why is it no longer so now that you've learned others' salaries? I've held four positions in my career thus far, and in each I've seen situations where much more experienced and/or older workers were paid less than younger/less experienced workers. It's not completely about your credentials. For better or for worse, better negotiators get more.

The moral of the story is: If you don't feel you're a great negotiator, practice getting great. The second moral of the story is: If you do not ask, you most certainly do not receive.
posted by onesix18 at 1:40 PM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]