What the heck is my problem?
March 14, 2007 3:37 AM Subscribe
Why am I so bad at staying in love?
I'm a male American, 32. I'm currently in my third serious relationship and I've never been married. I've always enjoyed falling love and being in love, the problem is staying that way after a woman reciprocates.
The first serious relationship was 4 years. Everything was great the first couple of years, then we moved in together. After she broke up with me I looked back and saw that it was absolutely my fault. I've come to recognize a pattern in the subsequent relationship and I'm anxious to avoid it this time out. The pattern is that my relationships are very intense throughout the initial stages but once we reach the comfort zone where we both feel stable and in love, my mind starts to disconnect and pull away from them.
All three of these women have been wonderful, beautiful human beings I could easily spend my life with. So why do I start to withhold affection, try to get away from them? I'm absolutely in love with my latest girlfriend, we have loads in common and a great sexual bond. And yet here come those idiotic feelings (or lack thereof) again, this urge to pull back. It's like those "last minute jitters" they talk about before weddings or something.
I know the urge is to call it Fear of Commitment but I WANT to commit. I have no interest in getting back to The Chase with someone else. I don't enjoy casual encounters. I WANT to be in this relationship.
So what's up with my brain?
I'm a male American, 32. I'm currently in my third serious relationship and I've never been married. I've always enjoyed falling love and being in love, the problem is staying that way after a woman reciprocates.
The first serious relationship was 4 years. Everything was great the first couple of years, then we moved in together. After she broke up with me I looked back and saw that it was absolutely my fault. I've come to recognize a pattern in the subsequent relationship and I'm anxious to avoid it this time out. The pattern is that my relationships are very intense throughout the initial stages but once we reach the comfort zone where we both feel stable and in love, my mind starts to disconnect and pull away from them.
All three of these women have been wonderful, beautiful human beings I could easily spend my life with. So why do I start to withhold affection, try to get away from them? I'm absolutely in love with my latest girlfriend, we have loads in common and a great sexual bond. And yet here come those idiotic feelings (or lack thereof) again, this urge to pull back. It's like those "last minute jitters" they talk about before weddings or something.
I know the urge is to call it Fear of Commitment but I WANT to commit. I have no interest in getting back to The Chase with someone else. I don't enjoy casual encounters. I WANT to be in this relationship.
So what's up with my brain?
No, sir, (sir, madam - whatever), they are not last minute jitters. In fact, they're not jitters at all.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, you're disappointed you no longer feel that particular sustained rush of first love (and maybe looking for that rush again?). Why you withhold affection would seem to be the sheer boredom that accompanies familiarity.
The scare is, at least from my experience, you'll never feel that again. Well, you won't, unless you cheat. But, the joys of having a partner outweigh that stolen passion, at least for myself.
Apologies for the qualifications, but I can't ascribe my experience to yours. If you are truly addicted to the first love passion (sounds like you're just enamoured with it), then act in your own self interest.
Oh yeah, you can commit if you please. Maybe your partner would be someone to talk to about this - that would would be a much more fruitful discussion than a bunch of strangers, don't you think?
posted by converge at 4:36 AM on March 14, 2007
Unless I'm misunderstanding, you're disappointed you no longer feel that particular sustained rush of first love (and maybe looking for that rush again?). Why you withhold affection would seem to be the sheer boredom that accompanies familiarity.
The scare is, at least from my experience, you'll never feel that again. Well, you won't, unless you cheat. But, the joys of having a partner outweigh that stolen passion, at least for myself.
Apologies for the qualifications, but I can't ascribe my experience to yours. If you are truly addicted to the first love passion (sounds like you're just enamoured with it), then act in your own self interest.
Oh yeah, you can commit if you please. Maybe your partner would be someone to talk to about this - that would would be a much more fruitful discussion than a bunch of strangers, don't you think?
posted by converge at 4:36 AM on March 14, 2007
The pattern is that my relationships are very intense throughout the initial stages but once we reach the comfort zone where we both feel stable and in love, my mind starts to disconnect and pull away from them.
Up to the comma, this is what all relationships are like. What does "my mind starts to disconnect and pull away from them" mean? You don't spend all night sharing every detail of your life? Because nobody does that after the first 6 months. Or does it mean that you never think about them or show any interest in them? That wouldn't be right.
posted by DU at 4:42 AM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Up to the comma, this is what all relationships are like. What does "my mind starts to disconnect and pull away from them" mean? You don't spend all night sharing every detail of your life? Because nobody does that after the first 6 months. Or does it mean that you never think about them or show any interest in them? That wouldn't be right.
posted by DU at 4:42 AM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
What you describe is basic human biology doing its thing. You can't possibly hope to stay "in love" (in the sense of early infatuation) over years. You're 32 and have had three serious longish relationships. Sounds normal, welcome to the club.
Humans are not biologically monogamous animals. You'll get some argument about that, because we have culture and that can and does interact with our biology. But anyone who tells you they are as in love with a partner years later as they were when they met, or in the same way, is in denial or lying. So you need to expand your concept of "love" beyond infatuation, and live with the reality that you will keep on being attracted to new and different women for the rest of your life, whether you pursue those attractions or not. No one gets it perfectly right, and no one doesn't struggle with this stuff. You're normal.
If you have a kid, you'll experience another kind of "love" that works really differently, and is equally biological in essence, and that does have a more unchanging and total character despite changes on the surface of the relationship. But sexual attraction and romantic "love" (in all its modern cultural glory) are not the same things at all.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:46 AM on March 14, 2007
Humans are not biologically monogamous animals. You'll get some argument about that, because we have culture and that can and does interact with our biology. But anyone who tells you they are as in love with a partner years later as they were when they met, or in the same way, is in denial or lying. So you need to expand your concept of "love" beyond infatuation, and live with the reality that you will keep on being attracted to new and different women for the rest of your life, whether you pursue those attractions or not. No one gets it perfectly right, and no one doesn't struggle with this stuff. You're normal.
If you have a kid, you'll experience another kind of "love" that works really differently, and is equally biological in essence, and that does have a more unchanging and total character despite changes on the surface of the relationship. But sexual attraction and romantic "love" (in all its modern cultural glory) are not the same things at all.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:46 AM on March 14, 2007
Humans are biologically mostly monogamous. That has nothing to do with the definite fact that the first stage of a relationship, which one might call "infatuation", is different than ongoing love.
posted by DU at 5:07 AM on March 14, 2007
posted by DU at 5:07 AM on March 14, 2007
fourcheesemac, I totally disagree. You're assigning an arbitrary definition of what "in love" means (equating it with infatuation) in order to support your theory.
Love means different things to differet people, and many folks find romantic love to be long-term, even if it is not unchanging.
Anon, it sounds like you are "disconnecting" almost as a protective mechanism? I wonder what your family life growing up was like. I had similar experiences in my 20s, partly I think because even though I cared about my partners I secretly believed that it would end anyway, so I pulled away. Does that strike a chord?
posted by miss tea at 5:13 AM on March 14, 2007
Love means different things to differet people, and many folks find romantic love to be long-term, even if it is not unchanging.
Anon, it sounds like you are "disconnecting" almost as a protective mechanism? I wonder what your family life growing up was like. I had similar experiences in my 20s, partly I think because even though I cared about my partners I secretly believed that it would end anyway, so I pulled away. Does that strike a chord?
posted by miss tea at 5:13 AM on March 14, 2007
I remember reading or hearing about a chemical that the brain releases for the first 6-18 months of a relationship, which corresponds with the feeling of passionate infatuation. Sorry I don't have the citation. When it stops, for a relationship to stay solid, the passionate infatuation needs to have evolved into something longer term and deeper. It sounds to me like one of two things is going on with you. Either, as others have said above, you are mistaking the passionate infatuation as the only phase of real love. Or, you're not forming the basis for that deeper bond that's got to replace it if you want your relationships to last. Do you have deeply caring, long term relationships with friends or family? If so, the fact that you do form these kinds of bonds poionts towards the former explanation. If not, then that's what to explore in your favorite mode of self-work (therapy, journaling, meditation, etc.), because that's what will generalize out to your romantic relationships.
posted by daisyace at 5:52 AM on March 14, 2007
posted by daisyace at 5:52 AM on March 14, 2007
But anyone who tells you they are as in love with a partner years later as they were when they met, or in the same way, is in denial or lying
Well, that's just plain wrong. Sure it might be rarer than you'd think, but if your level of "love" isn't what it used to be, that's too bad for you. Doesn't mean its impossible.
I recommend against sharing these feelings with your partner until you've worked a bit more of them out, though. You don't want to start that long conversation unprepared. Trust me.
It sounds to me like you just need some space. Plenty of relationships are ruined because after the initial phase you don't have so much to share with your long-time partner as you do with a new one. Things can get banal. Do some stuff apart, keep a buffer some of the time, and get back together later and share again.
And its not for everyone, but threesomes also work. You get to keep your thrill and your partner. Again, though, not for everyone. I use the term "threesome" in a relationship sense, not strictly a sexual one.
posted by mr_book at 6:03 AM on March 14, 2007
Well, that's just plain wrong. Sure it might be rarer than you'd think, but if your level of "love" isn't what it used to be, that's too bad for you. Doesn't mean its impossible.
I recommend against sharing these feelings with your partner until you've worked a bit more of them out, though. You don't want to start that long conversation unprepared. Trust me.
It sounds to me like you just need some space. Plenty of relationships are ruined because after the initial phase you don't have so much to share with your long-time partner as you do with a new one. Things can get banal. Do some stuff apart, keep a buffer some of the time, and get back together later and share again.
And its not for everyone, but threesomes also work. You get to keep your thrill and your partner. Again, though, not for everyone. I use the term "threesome" in a relationship sense, not strictly a sexual one.
posted by mr_book at 6:03 AM on March 14, 2007
Anon, it sounds like you are "disconnecting" almost as a protective mechanism? I wonder what your family life growing up was like. I had similar experiences in my 20s, partly I think because even though I cared about my partners I secretly believed that it would end anyway, so I pulled away.
This sounds right to me, and it's the only comment that even comes close to responding to the actual question. Jesus, people, stop with the pious "Infatuation only lasts a certain time" kindergarten lecture. The guy's first relationship lasted four years; he knows that. His problem is that he pulls away from women he loves. Try to address that rather than condescedingly explaining Relationships 101 as if he were a teenager.
posted by languagehat at 6:15 AM on March 14, 2007
This sounds right to me, and it's the only comment that even comes close to responding to the actual question. Jesus, people, stop with the pious "Infatuation only lasts a certain time" kindergarten lecture. The guy's first relationship lasted four years; he knows that. His problem is that he pulls away from women he loves. Try to address that rather than condescedingly explaining Relationships 101 as if he were a teenager.
posted by languagehat at 6:15 AM on March 14, 2007
I want to be thinner. When I first got my stationary bike, I couldn't wait to use it: it was a shiny new toy. I set it up in front of the TV, rented videos from Netflix and rode for an hour every morning. But now that the newness has worn off, I'm pulling away from it. I so much just want to stay in bed an extra hour and sleep. Still, I WANT to be thinner.
I bring up this analogy because I'm wondering whether, when the going gets tough (or even when the going gets less fun than it once was), you tend to pull away from any situation. If that's true -- if you're the sort of person who keeps changing jobs, schools, etc. -- then perhaps THAT is what you should work on.
In my experience (as someone 14 years into a relationship and someone with friends in similar circumstances), you don't reach stability after four years. I felt really comfortably married after ten years. The years before that were good, but after ten I knew that my marriage was my "home." It's where I live and where I want to live. My wife and I know so much about each other; we have so much shared history; we can communicate so much without speaking. The idea of starting over with someone knew -- someone to whom I'd have to explain all my quirks and experiences -- is not something I'd want to do.
People go to college for four years, make "really close friends," but then they graduate and often never see those friends again -- and they tend not to miss each other too much after a while. I doubt my wife and I will ever part, but if we did, I'm sure she'd always be on my mind. She's a part of my mind. I'm sure that after a decade of being together, people's brains literally grow hard-coded structures for their partners. My wife and I have imprinted on each other.
So that's the end-goal, and you say you want it. Well, then (as with my exercise bike) you have WORK for it. Relationships are work, and if you think they shouldn't be, then you'll always be leaving them when the initial rush wears off.
How do you cope when you feel they urge to pull away? You don't pull away. You stick by your partner whether it feels good to do so or not. I'm not saying you SHOULD do this. I'm saying you must do this if you want to achieve the end-goal. You have to work through the plateaus to win the prize. (And once you win it, there will still be work, but not so often.)
What if you feel the urge to pull away and can't stop yourself from giving into it? Then you have an impulse-control problem, and you should talk to someone about it.
I'm not suggesting that you should work at any relationship, no matter how bad. But you've said that you think your girlfriend would make a good life-partner. Well, if you want the end-goal, be a good athlete and train to stay in the game!
posted by grumblebee at 6:34 AM on March 14, 2007 [7 favorites]
I bring up this analogy because I'm wondering whether, when the going gets tough (or even when the going gets less fun than it once was), you tend to pull away from any situation. If that's true -- if you're the sort of person who keeps changing jobs, schools, etc. -- then perhaps THAT is what you should work on.
In my experience (as someone 14 years into a relationship and someone with friends in similar circumstances), you don't reach stability after four years. I felt really comfortably married after ten years. The years before that were good, but after ten I knew that my marriage was my "home." It's where I live and where I want to live. My wife and I know so much about each other; we have so much shared history; we can communicate so much without speaking. The idea of starting over with someone knew -- someone to whom I'd have to explain all my quirks and experiences -- is not something I'd want to do.
People go to college for four years, make "really close friends," but then they graduate and often never see those friends again -- and they tend not to miss each other too much after a while. I doubt my wife and I will ever part, but if we did, I'm sure she'd always be on my mind. She's a part of my mind. I'm sure that after a decade of being together, people's brains literally grow hard-coded structures for their partners. My wife and I have imprinted on each other.
So that's the end-goal, and you say you want it. Well, then (as with my exercise bike) you have WORK for it. Relationships are work, and if you think they shouldn't be, then you'll always be leaving them when the initial rush wears off.
How do you cope when you feel they urge to pull away? You don't pull away. You stick by your partner whether it feels good to do so or not. I'm not saying you SHOULD do this. I'm saying you must do this if you want to achieve the end-goal. You have to work through the plateaus to win the prize. (And once you win it, there will still be work, but not so often.)
What if you feel the urge to pull away and can't stop yourself from giving into it? Then you have an impulse-control problem, and you should talk to someone about it.
I'm not suggesting that you should work at any relationship, no matter how bad. But you've said that you think your girlfriend would make a good life-partner. Well, if you want the end-goal, be a good athlete and train to stay in the game!
posted by grumblebee at 6:34 AM on March 14, 2007 [7 favorites]
Try to address that rather than condescedingly explaining Relationships 101 as if he were a teenager.
I hope I haven't done that. My main point is that, in the time-scale of a lifelong relationship, four years is a relatively short time. It's enough time to know whether or not you want to spend your life with that person, but not enough time to have worked out how to do that.
posted by grumblebee at 6:37 AM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I hope I haven't done that. My main point is that, in the time-scale of a lifelong relationship, four years is a relatively short time. It's enough time to know whether or not you want to spend your life with that person, but not enough time to have worked out how to do that.
posted by grumblebee at 6:37 AM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
There is enough for a book in your question, anon. A bunch of them, in fact. And other people have already written them.
fourcheesemac is dead on, IMO. miss_tea, on the other hand, seems prisoner to the myth of lasting eternal love.
It might help you to avoid saying that there's something WRONG with you, and instead, just start studying what is happening. The general topic of sociobiology is where a lot of insight into these feelings may lie.
Some questions... is there a biological/genetic basis in our behavior...not predestination, but predisposition? What is the 'normal' evolution of a relationship? (I structure them into distinct phases, which I am not going to detail because of time limitations.) Why do we choose who we choose? What possible species benefit accrues due to having relationships come to an end?
I think that social biologists can shed some light on your puzzling. You may not get the answer you are looking for, but you MAY get some insight into what is going on. It is possible that you have some personal conditioning involved, too, and I agree that as an individual, you may not fit the statistics.
We are serially monogamous critters. We are NOT apparently very good at monogamy. We can get addicted to infatuation and lust. We hate boredom, generally, though there are some miscreants who love prison! Does any of this apply to you?
I also think the polyamorists have a tenuous handle on UNDERSTANDING how societal relationship myths and biological realities collide. ( I am not talking about swingers, but true polyamorous folks. ) You need to be willing to get outside of society's taboo thought limitations to see past the myth and see how what you are seeking may be difficult to find. Are you feeling biological drives that are legit and explainable? (You don't have to follow them, but you are powerless to avoid FEELING them.)
Lastly, I speak from the vantage of two LONG relationships... one 24 years, and one coming up on 10. I am not a stranger to nor afraid of commitment. I found that when I finally committed, it wasn't because I answered the question "Is this the right one?', it was because I quit asking the question.
Once you are over the committing phase, you have to just deal with your substrate of personal inadequacies and limitations and work on personal character development. What you may be seeing is that you have problems maintaining being a nice person to these potential long term mates, and that getting past the infatuation and into the comfort zone is where you start to have the freedom to be the You you don't like?
Good luck. (Keep an open mind!)
posted by FauxScot at 7:03 AM on March 14, 2007
fourcheesemac is dead on, IMO. miss_tea, on the other hand, seems prisoner to the myth of lasting eternal love.
It might help you to avoid saying that there's something WRONG with you, and instead, just start studying what is happening. The general topic of sociobiology is where a lot of insight into these feelings may lie.
Some questions... is there a biological/genetic basis in our behavior...not predestination, but predisposition? What is the 'normal' evolution of a relationship? (I structure them into distinct phases, which I am not going to detail because of time limitations.) Why do we choose who we choose? What possible species benefit accrues due to having relationships come to an end?
I think that social biologists can shed some light on your puzzling. You may not get the answer you are looking for, but you MAY get some insight into what is going on. It is possible that you have some personal conditioning involved, too, and I agree that as an individual, you may not fit the statistics.
We are serially monogamous critters. We are NOT apparently very good at monogamy. We can get addicted to infatuation and lust. We hate boredom, generally, though there are some miscreants who love prison! Does any of this apply to you?
I also think the polyamorists have a tenuous handle on UNDERSTANDING how societal relationship myths and biological realities collide. ( I am not talking about swingers, but true polyamorous folks. ) You need to be willing to get outside of society's taboo thought limitations to see past the myth and see how what you are seeking may be difficult to find. Are you feeling biological drives that are legit and explainable? (You don't have to follow them, but you are powerless to avoid FEELING them.)
Lastly, I speak from the vantage of two LONG relationships... one 24 years, and one coming up on 10. I am not a stranger to nor afraid of commitment. I found that when I finally committed, it wasn't because I answered the question "Is this the right one?', it was because I quit asking the question.
Once you are over the committing phase, you have to just deal with your substrate of personal inadequacies and limitations and work on personal character development. What you may be seeing is that you have problems maintaining being a nice person to these potential long term mates, and that getting past the infatuation and into the comfort zone is where you start to have the freedom to be the You you don't like?
Good luck. (Keep an open mind!)
posted by FauxScot at 7:03 AM on March 14, 2007
You don't feel you deserve love, and when someone loves you, you start to wonder what's wrong with them. You distance yourself from them because you fear if they knew the "real you," they wouldn't love you anymore.
This is all at a really subconscious level, of course, but I've seen it before, many times, and I'd bet money that's what's going on.
posted by desjardins at 7:44 AM on March 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
This is all at a really subconscious level, of course, but I've seen it before, many times, and I'd bet money that's what's going on.
posted by desjardins at 7:44 AM on March 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
It may just be a sign that you're not truly ready, or it may be that she's not the right one, or it may just be a psychological hangup you need to fix - it's hard to tell. In my experience, real love has a funny way of working out in the end, but don't be stupid about it either. Talk to her about it - figure out which one it is before it's too late.
And desjardins, get out of my head.
posted by chundo at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2007
And desjardins, get out of my head.
posted by chundo at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2007
Perhaps you know this but -- you don't have to move in, you don't have to get married, just because you're in love. You can choose a different way to do things.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:27 AM on March 14, 2007
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:27 AM on March 14, 2007
While your question is far too vague for a proper diagnosis, as a person for whom unwanted emotional detachment is an old and familiar friend, I would advise you to be less concerned with the state of your mind and more concerned with the content of your actions. The mind, as the sages have noted, is a drunken monkey, a largely uncontrolled chatterer. It sounds like your heart is in one place but your mind pulls you in another. Act in accordance to your heart's directive, ignoring the cognitive dissonance this creates. When your heart and your actions are in alignment your mind will ultimately follow. Beyond this, it never hurts to mix things up in the sack.
posted by nanojath at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2007
posted by nanojath at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2007
Talk to your girlfriend about this. It will reassure her that you know there is a problem and you're working to fix it; also, she probably knows you well enough to be of great assistance while you're working through this.
That said, I think miss tea and desjardins have it: you will best be able to combat your urge to detach when you know what is motivating it. I know it's not easy, but try to pick apart your emotions the next time you feel the urge to pull away. Ask yourself what you have to lose by being affectionate, or what you have to gain by withdrawing. Go from there.
Good luck.
posted by AV at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2007
That said, I think miss tea and desjardins have it: you will best be able to combat your urge to detach when you know what is motivating it. I know it's not easy, but try to pick apart your emotions the next time you feel the urge to pull away. Ask yourself what you have to lose by being affectionate, or what you have to gain by withdrawing. Go from there.
Good luck.
posted by AV at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2007
fourcheesemac is dead on, IMO. miss_tea, on the other hand, seems prisoner to the myth of lasting eternal love.
Excuse me? I don't remember saying anything about eternal love. I wonder if you would have said that if my handle wasn't clearly female.
Anon, ignore that sociobiological claptrap. You're an individual, and you can make decisions for yourself. If you want to be in a relationship for longer than a few years, you can. You just need to figure out what really standing in your way. (Hint: it's probably not the gene you share with bonobo monkeys, or whatever the trendy sociobio reference is. It's your brain, and your experiences.)
posted by miss tea at 10:54 AM on March 14, 2007
Excuse me? I don't remember saying anything about eternal love. I wonder if you would have said that if my handle wasn't clearly female.
Anon, ignore that sociobiological claptrap. You're an individual, and you can make decisions for yourself. If you want to be in a relationship for longer than a few years, you can. You just need to figure out what really standing in your way. (Hint: it's probably not the gene you share with bonobo monkeys, or whatever the trendy sociobio reference is. It's your brain, and your experiences.)
posted by miss tea at 10:54 AM on March 14, 2007
no miss_tea... not because you are female, and please accept my apologies if you were offended. I did extrapolate from your subtext, not your explicit words.
Evidence of the myth is pervasive and I seem to sense it everywhere, sometimes incorrectly. Is that the case with you? Your last comment seems to be consistent with my original read.
Sociobiology is no more claptrap than calculus. Neither are neurotransmitters, chromosomes, alleles. Brains evolved from predecessor structures. They are no different than bones, limbs and wings. Our emotions exist in those brains. Nature is economic. Our features exist because they were consistently beneficial to our species.
To say that we feel the way we feel because we WILL it ignores the contribution of billions of years of selection on EVERY aspect of our being... including how we choose who we choose and why we go through the stages of relationships. And perhaps why anon torpedoes promising longer term relationships. One could blame it on momma and daddy, but prudence demands considering Darwinian factors, no?
Appreciating this HELPS in controlling how we react to how we feel, it does not compete with it and can aid in achieving a healthy "third person" viewpoint on our feelings and otherwise inexplicable actions.
posted by FauxScot at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2007
Evidence of the myth is pervasive and I seem to sense it everywhere, sometimes incorrectly. Is that the case with you? Your last comment seems to be consistent with my original read.
Sociobiology is no more claptrap than calculus. Neither are neurotransmitters, chromosomes, alleles. Brains evolved from predecessor structures. They are no different than bones, limbs and wings. Our emotions exist in those brains. Nature is economic. Our features exist because they were consistently beneficial to our species.
To say that we feel the way we feel because we WILL it ignores the contribution of billions of years of selection on EVERY aspect of our being... including how we choose who we choose and why we go through the stages of relationships. And perhaps why anon torpedoes promising longer term relationships. One could blame it on momma and daddy, but prudence demands considering Darwinian factors, no?
Appreciating this HELPS in controlling how we react to how we feel, it does not compete with it and can aid in achieving a healthy "third person" viewpoint on our feelings and otherwise inexplicable actions.
posted by FauxScot at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2007
FauxScot, sociobiology has to be taken with a grain of salt, because sociobiologists sometimes interpret animal behavior anthropomorphically -- to support their own biases. Case in point: this link about sex bias in sociobiology
Besides, WHICH animals should we compare ourselves to when conducting sociobiology? Some animals mate for life; others have single females mating with multiple males at once (cats); others have one male animal per several females (chimpanzees); yet others are promiscuous (bonobos).
In addition, when it comes to "survival of the species", it is just as fair to say that monogamy for humans is necessary for the time investment it takes to raise a human child to adulthood as it is to say non-monogamy diversifies the gene pool. Sociobiology needs to be used THOUGHTFULLY, and it is not clear that non-monogamy is in the best interest of the human species.
Back to the original topic --
It is true that the chemical rush of love is short-lived -- a year or two from what I understand. What should be taking the place of the chemical rush is intimacy developed during the "chemical rush" period. If you are having trouble with developing intimacy, and/or are mistaking the chemical rush for "love", then this might lead to your behavior.
There are several different types of "love", and perhaps you need to introduce yourself to all of them to understand the stages of a relationship. Similar ideas of types of love can be found here
posted by lleachie at 11:36 AM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Besides, WHICH animals should we compare ourselves to when conducting sociobiology? Some animals mate for life; others have single females mating with multiple males at once (cats); others have one male animal per several females (chimpanzees); yet others are promiscuous (bonobos).
In addition, when it comes to "survival of the species", it is just as fair to say that monogamy for humans is necessary for the time investment it takes to raise a human child to adulthood as it is to say non-monogamy diversifies the gene pool. Sociobiology needs to be used THOUGHTFULLY, and it is not clear that non-monogamy is in the best interest of the human species.
Back to the original topic --
It is true that the chemical rush of love is short-lived -- a year or two from what I understand. What should be taking the place of the chemical rush is intimacy developed during the "chemical rush" period. If you are having trouble with developing intimacy, and/or are mistaking the chemical rush for "love", then this might lead to your behavior.
There are several different types of "love", and perhaps you need to introduce yourself to all of them to understand the stages of a relationship. Similar ideas of types of love can be found here
posted by lleachie at 11:36 AM on March 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think that there are two separate issues involved. One is how you feel --- the change from the intense infatuation of the beginning to the more settled relationship later --- and maybe that is really hard to control, and probably a waste of time trying to control (I mean, that's how you feel, which seems pretty legitimate to me).
But what you have total control over is what you do. You can behave in ways that, subtly and slowly, deteriorate your relationship, or you can behave in ways that, also subtly and slowly, create more intimacy and closeness. Big things certainly matter, but a lot of it is the little stuff -- wearing the shirt that you know she really likes, even though you are at home relaxing after a long week. Or creating little couple-building rituals like making coffee for her every morning, or whatever. The specifics will totally depend on who you are, and who she is, and what your relationship so far has been like.
I don't know anything about bonobos, nor am I really sure about whether serial monogamy is natural or not, but I do know that after more than half a decade together (still early days by some people's standards, sure), the relationship between me and my partner is much more intense and loving than it was at the beginning. Sure it was new and exciting then, but it is way better now. The more we learn how to communicate and share, the more there is to say. Our sex life is an order of magnitude better now than it was then, because the more we learn about each other, the more there is to be surprised by. I'm not saying that everything is perfect, but there is no shortage of intensity and desire and connection between us.
So while every relationship has ups and downs, and maybe over enough time everything fades, the pattern you established in your first two relationships doesn't need to be the pattern you will follow for the rest of your life. Big things (like, "do we stay together or break up?") are composed of a lot of little decisions ("do I argue about it, or shrug and kiss her on the nose?") that you have control over. Even if you do everything right, things may not work, but you at least will have tried.
posted by Forktine at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2007
But what you have total control over is what you do. You can behave in ways that, subtly and slowly, deteriorate your relationship, or you can behave in ways that, also subtly and slowly, create more intimacy and closeness. Big things certainly matter, but a lot of it is the little stuff -- wearing the shirt that you know she really likes, even though you are at home relaxing after a long week. Or creating little couple-building rituals like making coffee for her every morning, or whatever. The specifics will totally depend on who you are, and who she is, and what your relationship so far has been like.
I don't know anything about bonobos, nor am I really sure about whether serial monogamy is natural or not, but I do know that after more than half a decade together (still early days by some people's standards, sure), the relationship between me and my partner is much more intense and loving than it was at the beginning. Sure it was new and exciting then, but it is way better now. The more we learn how to communicate and share, the more there is to say. Our sex life is an order of magnitude better now than it was then, because the more we learn about each other, the more there is to be surprised by. I'm not saying that everything is perfect, but there is no shortage of intensity and desire and connection between us.
So while every relationship has ups and downs, and maybe over enough time everything fades, the pattern you established in your first two relationships doesn't need to be the pattern you will follow for the rest of your life. Big things (like, "do we stay together or break up?") are composed of a lot of little decisions ("do I argue about it, or shrug and kiss her on the nose?") that you have control over. Even if you do everything right, things may not work, but you at least will have tried.
posted by Forktine at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2007
grumblebee regarding four years:
It's enough time to know whether or not you want to spend your life with that person, but not enough time to have worked out how to do that.
Fifteen years in, I say amen.
posted by sacre_bleu at 12:24 PM on March 14, 2007
It's enough time to know whether or not you want to spend your life with that person, but not enough time to have worked out how to do that.
Fifteen years in, I say amen.
posted by sacre_bleu at 12:24 PM on March 14, 2007
grumblebee:
I didn't even post this question, but wow, thanks.
posted by Roman Graves at 1:27 PM on March 14, 2007
I didn't even post this question, but wow, thanks.
posted by Roman Graves at 1:27 PM on March 14, 2007
Because I may have been misunderstood, I don't mean you love someone *less* as time goes by, but you do love them differently, and perhaps it's also (and often) "more."
As for "humans are biologically mostly monogamous," that's not at all true. The "mostly" covers a multitude of cultural practices and basic primate behaviors. The philosophical concept of monogamy (and its equation with "love") is by no means culturally universal.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:30 PM on March 14, 2007
As for "humans are biologically mostly monogamous," that's not at all true. The "mostly" covers a multitude of cultural practices and basic primate behaviors. The philosophical concept of monogamy (and its equation with "love") is by no means culturally universal.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:30 PM on March 14, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Try to find out, then to reconcile with the official behaviour you're allowing yourself to have (lifelong commitments, etc).
posted by dhoe at 4:21 AM on March 14, 2007