So, you're telling me we should just be friends?

March 6, 2007 5:16 PM

How can I begin changing my views on relationships and romance?

OK, so here's the story. I'm a 28 year old guy living in the Midwest. I've had one romantic relationship in my life, and that ended very badly in 2005 (she got abusive when we broke up, told all my secrets to whoever would listen, etc.) Prior to that, I really didn't have the confidence to approach women due to a weight problem and not having any money in college. I had a lot of crushes on women before my relationship in 2005, but I just never acted upon it because of self-confidence issues.

Now I find myself in a weird place. I've lost a lot of weight and have been told I'm quite attractive. Women approach me from time to time at the gym and other random places. They obviously want to go out with me, and will even ask me if I'm seeing anyone. Every time this happens, I instantly begin thinking why a relationship with the woman would never work, and begin sabotaging things in my mind. Oftentimes, I'll tell her that I'd rather just be friends. Sometimes this does lead to friendship, but often it just leads to them not talking to me anymore. I'm not the sort to just stop calling people for no reason, because I know how hurtful that can be.

I think my views about relationships are all wrong. I have decent friendly and platonic relationships with many women, so there's no problem there. I just find myself unable to get into a romantic relationship. I want companionship, but my views on romantic relationships are hopelessly negative. My parents have a horrible marriage and I haven't seen too many married couples whose lives I would want. All my friends who are in long term realtionships act like they're married without the rings and possibility of losing half their stuff. It seems like marriage is where couples go to die, and that the point of most long term relationships is for the two people to get married.

Compounding this fact is that I really enjoy misogynist entertainment. Things like Too Short's music and Tucker Max's writing. I'm not going to blame these things for the way I think, but they really can't be helping my situation.

I know I should likely go to therapy, but are there any other resources out there I could consult to help me begin to get over these views? Or alternatively, ways I can meet singles who want long term relationships but not necessarily marriage?

My e-mail is askmefi at yahoo dot com if you would like additional info of any kind from me. Thanks again.

posted by anonymous to human relations (21 comments total)

Or alternatively, ways I can meet singles who want long term relationships but not necessarily marriage?

What makes you think that the women you've met aren't like this?
posted by 23skidoo at 5:29 PM on March 6, 2007

Consider your priorities, and try to focus on being happy on your own. Searching for a relationship with the idea that it will somehow fill a void in your life may only bring you grief. When you're happy on your own you might find that things just fall into place.
posted by mullingitover at 5:33 PM on March 6, 2007

What if you stopped thinking about getting into "relationships" with the women you meet, and instead think about going on dates with them? When you meet a woman, think about whether you'd like to have dinner with her, whether you'd like to have a drink with her, whether you'd like to have sex with her. Don't worry about what, if anything, might come after that. And just let things progress naturally. If you start to feel like things are moving too quickly, slow down. If you start to feel too tied down, talk to her about it. But don't think of every conversation you have with a woman as the first step in the long march towards sitting in matching rocking chairs in your golden years. It's just a date.

Oh, and some women share your interests in dirty jokes and hip hop music. So long as you don't actually treat women like servants or objects, if a woman you're dating doesn't like your choice of entertainment, she's not the right woman for you.
posted by decathecting at 5:41 PM on March 6, 2007

As a single guy in his late twenties, I sympathize. I think what you're going through is sort of normal. Born and raised in the Midwest, I now live on the west coast, and have a more flexible notion of marriage. You shouldn't let stuff like that worry you. Long-term relationships can be tricky, and i think the older you get, the trickier they become. as a young'un, you kind of fall into them. but later on, there are expectations. assumptions. things that can ruin a relationship.

counseling doesnt sound like a bad idea. maybe you'll meet some interesting people, or read some good books on the subject. i wouldn't worry that there's anything ground-breakingly wrong with you. do you drink a lot? do any drugs? do you have a steady job? these are emerging issues i think at this age, and can greatly affect your general demeanor towards other people.
posted by phaedon at 5:42 PM on March 6, 2007

I've been in relationships which I thought at first would go nowhere, but ended up lasting for some time. I've also been in relationships that I thought would last but were pretty short. You can't figure it out by working it all out in your head, especially if you have little experience in the subject. It seems more like you are using this as an excuse to avoid the possibility of more hurt.

(Yes, there might be serious reasons why it will obviously not work with someone, but that's not what I'm reading in your question—sabotaging things in your mind is different.)
posted by grouse at 5:46 PM on March 6, 2007

Are you sure the problem is how you think about relationships in general, or is it how you think about yourself in relationships? This sounds to me like a bunch of justifications for why you shouldn't put yourself out there to get hurt again.
posted by joannemerriam at 5:54 PM on March 6, 2007

Yes, don't worry about Getting Into a Relationship -- just think about getting to know some of these women! Go our for coffee, check out an exhibit, take a hike or bike ride together. See if you laugh and have interesting things to say to each other. See if you enjoy yourself and feel good spending time with someone. That's all you have to do at this point -- worrying about getting married and being miserable for the rest of your life is putting the cart so far ahead of the horse that it's in another county.

Now, having said that you shouldn't worry about getting into a relationship, I will recommend this book for some food for thought (putting aside the dippy "how to" title) -- both for now and for down the road, when a relationship might indeed be on the table.
posted by scody at 5:57 PM on March 6, 2007

So.. you've only had 1 "relationship" ??... were you, like... totally smoochy in love with her? (before it went bad) ?

Look... the first relationship I had in my twenties was pretty intense and when it ended ... it took me 5 to 8 years to completely get over it. (during that time I was in the same place you are).. Luckily for me, the 2nd big relationship started when a girl friend (notice the seperating space) was over drinking at my house and very plainly said: "I'm staying here tonight."... I was completely astounded (never saw that coming) and the relationship took over off very well.

Quite living in the past. Not all girls are psycho hose beasts who will freak out, take all your stuff and leave you. Every human being is unique, and we all approach relaltionships with a certain amount of "baggage".

What works best for me is just to simply stop caring. (about what people think, and stop caring about rejection).. I just go with the flow, be myself and treat each person with respect and honesty.

Strangely enough.. I've been single for ..uh.. a few years now.. :| (so what do I know? :)
posted by jmnugent at 6:38 PM on March 6, 2007

How did you come by this set of cognitions about marriage and romantic love? Slowly. One at a time. You kept thinking a thought like "Marriage is where couples go to die" over and over until it because your default feeling on the issue.

So, how do you adopt a different set of cognitions about marriage and romantic love?

Stop thinking things like "Clearly a relationship with this woman will never work!" and "I don't know anyone with a good marriage" and "I am doomed."

Those things, not to put too fine a point on it, are RIDICULOUS. Try different thoughts, like: "I know some people have happy marriages. Maybe I can look around for them!" or "Really, no one going into a relationship can ever know exactly what's going to happen" or "I don't have to figure this all out right now!" or "I can just try dating. There's no rush." or "I'm only 28! I have plenty of time to figure this all out!" or "Isn't it kind of nice that I'm apparently cute, and that women are drawn to me?"

You'll have to make a concerted effort. But I know you can do it!

I do want to tell you one more thing. I don't mean this in the "There's something terribly wrong with you" way, but I'm a pretty relaxed girlfriend, and I recognize that men are not like girls, and am fine with that. Even so, I would not be in a relationship with a man who "really enjoyed misogynistic entertainment", for the simple reason that I have no interest in men who think that girls are worthy of disgust and ridicule. Do with that information what you will.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 6:46 PM on March 6, 2007

Compounding this fact is that I really enjoy misogynist entertainment. Things like Too Short's music and Tucker Max's writing. I'm not going to blame these things for the way I think, but they really can't be helping my situation.


No. That is not helping. To find a good woman, you should be a good man. You'll only get what you give. Yea, being attractive is helpful, but being a really good guy gets the goods.
posted by snsranch at 6:50 PM on March 6, 2007 [3 favorites]

To find a good woman, you should be a good man. You'll only get what you give.

Chiming back in to agree. If you view women with contempt, no truly good women (read: smart, self-respecting, emomtionally healthy, etc.) will going to stick around for very long. And that will leave you with women who, for whatever reasons, will tolerate your contempt, at which point you'll likely find yourself in a situation in which your misgynistic notions will have become self-fulfilling prophecies.
posted by scody at 7:14 PM on March 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

just take things one step at a time. if you just focus on dating and not making anything more than non-committal fun out of it, you'll find it's easier to handle for the short term. moreover, long term relationship possibility springs more successfully from a fun casual relationship, and without some of that headache and worry over whether this one is "the one." she didn't have to be the one to go on a date, and if things work out then it's a moot point.
posted by shmegegge at 7:23 PM on March 6, 2007

Now I just have to say, your choice in music or whatever should not be changed, nor avoided in conversation (though as tastes differ wildly I generally stay away from it anyway). I went out with a Women's Studies student, and I mentioned how much I loved "The Getaway." She said, "I think... my professor said that 'The Getaway' is one of the most misogynistic movies of all time." But it didn't matter, because I'm not a misogynist and other than my liking that movie we were quite compatible. If you're afraid to tell a girl what you like, that's not a girl you will be able to feel comfortable with, ever.

Now, I'm not really one to talk about your situation because I'm 24 and I suppose I've never really been in a "serious" relationship, but I really think you mustn't think too hard about it. There are lots of girls in the world, and they are just people like you. Meet lots of them, talk to them, be their friends, and let relationships grow. My problem with dating is that it's all sort of bare and formal: it's like a job application process, not a growing relationship.

The best thing one can do in regards to relationships is to simply nurture the relationship that's there, not tie it and clip it like a Bonsai until it's just the way you want. The person you really want to be with will be the person with whom you have the best relationship, and it will be the best naturally. So just go around, look at all the people, and pick the ones you want to get to know. If it's a good match, it'll flourish, if not then it won't take, and there's nothing wrong with it not taking.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 8:43 PM on March 6, 2007

listen to scody
posted by matteo at 6:46 AM on March 7, 2007

This problem is actually a lot less difficult than you might think. After a few dates you should be able to pick the 'marrying kind' types from the kind you want in your life. On the first couple of dates you should ask something like "Where do you see yourself in 5 to 10 years? What are your thoughts about family?" Let her answer your concerns right from the get-go. I think you will find there are tons of women out there who dont want to marry at 23 or 24, even in the midwest. If you live in a small or conservative town you might have trouble finding them, but in larger population areas you'll be just fine.
posted by damn dirty ape at 7:25 AM on March 7, 2007

Even so, I would not be in a relationship with a man who "really enjoyed misogynistic entertainment", for the simple reason that I have no interest in men who think that girls are worthy of disgust and ridicule.

See, I would, but I would want to know that the guy didn't enjoy those things because they were misogynistic. I have variously been called a prude, uppity, etc., and have been known to get my feelings hurt easily; I'm a girly girl. But I love gangsta rap because it's fun. I don't agree with their attitudes--to me, they're a joke, and I don't really care because I enjoy the music.

Where are you on that spectrum? Do you really like these things because of the way they portray women, or is this just an issue for you because other people have made it one?
posted by zebra3 at 8:17 AM on March 7, 2007

Such heaviness!

First off - congrats on getting fit and asking these questions! Second, don't worry about 'misogynist entertainment': when it stops appealing to you it stops appealing to you. You don't owe goddamn political brownie points to find a mate. (Wait 'til someone comes over to visit for the night. Then you'll know what you're actually ashamed of - and move on it.)

Awkward fact: most relationships collapse and that sucks. Most of the girls you date you won't marry, same with nearly every human born in this country in the 20th century. You look at a lady and figure, 'I'll end up breaking up with her'? Well it sucks, but you're almost certainly right. You probably will.

But you might not.

That's all there is, long-term: the shot.

Meanwhile, do you enjoy the company of women? And you like holding hands, kissing, cuddling, fucking, arguing, awkward silences, long talks, a trip to the diner on the Morning After, sharing music and books, feeling loved and loving, missing appointments, giving up your time, knowing someone's given up hers, buying and receiving naughty gifts, getting the unexpected email at work, Having Her On Speed-Dial, etc., etc., etc.? That's the stuff of dating, just the same. Nothing to do with marriage or the weight of expectation.

Get a beer, man! Go for coffee! See a flick! Catch a play or a rock show! You don't need therapy and you don't need to throw out your (admittedly fucking awful) Too Short discs, you just need to acclimate yourself to doing the date thing, which means swallowing your pride and no longer overthinking this stuff, lowering the bar, and going through the motions. You're not gonna be scarred for life if it ends up being dumb or boring or even (shock) good-then-bad, you're just gonna have one more data point.

First you fail, then you fail better, and that is what learning is. You can do it, ya damn fool.
posted by waxbanks at 8:52 AM on March 7, 2007 [3 favorites]

It's simple; you change them by realizing they are bunk and that they are hurting, rather than aiding, your romantic pursuits. Sounds like you're almost there.

So when you are in a situation and you feel yourself doing what you usually do, simply halt yourself-- and try something else. Anything else. Because breaking the grip these instincts have on you is the first step to developing new ones, and almost anything that flies out of your mouth is going to be better than the same old crap.

One particular reason that these instincts and views are flawed is that each situation-- and even each woman-- is different! When you meet someone, anything you imagine about what your future together might be like ought to be completely nullified by the fact that there is an actual, living, breathing, thinking person in front of you, whose motivations and mysteries are quite possibly outside of the scope of your (overactive) imagination. Seeing someone as this or that certain kind of woman-- who will expect this or that certain thing from you in the long run-- is a fool's game. After all, if she approached you, she's obviously got you pegged as a certain kind of man that will probably respond well to being approached. And since she's so clearly mistaken, then why can't you accept that you probably are too?

In other words, stop thinking of women and relationships as empirical, faceless forces to be reckoned with and begin dealing with life one individual at a time.
posted by hermitosis at 9:26 AM on March 7, 2007

Zebra3:

See, I would, but I would want to know that the guy didn't enjoy those things because they were misogynistic. I have variously been called a prude, uppity, etc., and have been known to get my feelings hurt easily; I'm a girly girl. But I love gangsta rap because it's fun. I don't agree with their attitudes--to me, they're a joke, and I don't really care because I enjoy the music.

Yes, but he didn't say "I enjoy gangsta rap and I worry that a woman might misconstrue my attitudes toward women, which are of course on the up-and-up."

He said: "I really enjoy misogynistic entertainment." and continued to clarify that he was concerned that his enjoyment of this kind of stuff was adversely impacting his view of women. I'm going to believe him.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 10:36 AM on March 7, 2007

He said that he's cynical and has self-confidence issues, yet that he wants a companion. I've been where he is before, and the only person I was looking down on at the time was myself.

Why is my assumption that he could enjoy misogynistic entertainment for different reasons yet feel concern that it might affect him any more misplaced than the alternative? He didn't say that either, and I see no evidence of it in the rest of his post.
posted by zebra3 at 1:00 PM on March 7, 2007

Um...maybe you're just not ready to have a relationship right now? "Wanting companionship" doesn't always translate into "I should actively be pursuing someone now and that's a good idea." Relationships morph. I mean, you could try dating someone who states they just want something casual, or long-term without marriage, but that could change on your part or hers.

Plus, what joannemerriam said.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:14 PM on March 7, 2007