Can This Job Offer Be Saved?

March 6, 2007 7:28 AM

I have a job offer, but the salary they're offering is too low. How can I negotiate a better salary?

I've been a web developer (Programmer/Analyst II) at a University of California university for five years. Over two years ago, I started doing web application development that should have put me at Programmer/Analyst III based on this matrix. About a year ago I discussed this with my boss; he agrees I should be a P/A III and has started the paperwork, but things move really slow. He did the reclassification work for a colleague in our group, and his boss is sitting on the paperwork.

I wasn't really looking, but a Programmer/Analyst III opportunity came up at another university within the UC system that I was perfectly qualified for (actually, I'm overqualified), so I applied and I have a offer. The problem is, I'm making $67K, and the offer is $72K. The range for the position is $66-110K; the midpoint is $88K.

I was expecting something around the midpoint of the range based on my experience and skills. The offer is about what I'd expect to make at my current job after my next performance review, and it's less than I'd be making if my current employer had done the right thing and adjusted my salary with my increased workload two years ago. How can I negotiate a better offer?

Other stuff: The new job would be a better fit in terms of the technology they use, and the commute would be better. The benefits would be basically the same.

posted by croatoan to work & money (20 comments total)

I'm also a PAII at a UC. I was offered an insanely low starting salary, but not knowing better I took it. They are fucking notorious for doing this shit to people. I've had my salary raised (once) since but it's still waaaaaay below market for my skills.

You ask, nay, demand a higher salary. It may well just be HR telling them to pay you a shitty wage, if you are honest with them about what you think you're worth, the interviewers will probably agree and try to get more cash for you.
posted by beerbajay at 7:38 AM on March 6, 2007

Tell them that you're very excited about the work and the place of work but that you'd be much more comfortable with taking the position if you had a salary of xxx. Mention that you have more than the quals they are asking for and that you are making about the same salary now at a lower position.
posted by sid at 7:44 AM on March 6, 2007

... at a lower position with fewer responsibilities
posted by sid at 7:46 AM on March 6, 2007

If they don't really want you that badly, you won't be able to get them to increase. But if they do and are just lowballing, tell them basically the story you told us (just the highlights). "I'm comfortable where I am and they are about to bump me up to the pay you offered, so that isn't enough to make me accept the offer."
posted by DU at 7:47 AM on March 6, 2007

The only way to negotiate a better salary is to ask and just lay it out on the table but the question is really how or what to say. They already gave you an offer which puts the advantage in your court.. they want you. No company is going to be scared off by you asking for more money...they will either give it to you or not.

Do they know how much you currently make? That is most likely the reason for their low offer if the answer is yes.

This is really a style issue that is tied into peoples personalities so you will get different responses but personally I would put it to them along the lines of .. 'I really like your organization and I think the position is a good fit for me. However, part of my motivation to seek out new employment is to raise my standard of living. Your offer does not make switching jobs advantageous to me since I will be making basically the same money. Based on my experience I am looking to make $X. Is there any way we can negotiate a counter-offer that is mutually beneficial? '

Something like that...
posted by postergeist at 7:51 AM on March 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

How can I negotiate a better salary?

"I'm already making nearly that and I'm expecting a promotion and reclassification at my current job that should provide a higher salary than you've offered. I'm very interested in the position, but any offer less than $bignum won't make financial sense for me."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:54 AM on March 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

This happened to my partner (a computer programmer) recently when he was offered a new job at $16,000 less than he was making at his old job. He thought it was a deal-breaker, that they'd never bump up from an offer that low, and he told them--sincerely, and with regret--that with a wife and two kids to support he just couldn't afford to take that kind of pay cut. We were amazed when they contacted him the next day and offered to match his previous salary, which was good enough for us (he was making the switch because he hated his previous job).

Neither of us would have had the nerve to do something like that as a negotiating tactic, but it suggests to us that honesty can actually work in a situation like this, as others above have suggested. Good luck.
posted by not that girl at 8:39 AM on March 6, 2007

88 is the median salary, but what's the mean? I am not trying to discourage you from pushing for more - you certainly should - but the midpoint is pretty completely irrelevant if most people in that job classification earn towards the bottom of that pay grade. You also shouldn't focus on the median if most people earn ABOVE it - they could just be lowballing you because their budget is tight.

What's the openness policy in the CA uni system? In some states you'd be able to get anyone public employee's salary - I can look up to the penny what some of my friends in the Fed system here earn. If you can get it you should look up what some of your potential cow orkers make and be sure you're swinging for a reasonable target.

Beyond that, as others said - just ask! There's a reason it's called a salary negotiation and there's no shame and should be no discomfort in asking for what you want and feel you deserve. Just follow the most important rule of any negotiation: know what your walk-away point is. Before you say one word to them you should already have decided if you're willing to take this offer as-is. If not, what's the minimum number? A negotiation you're unwilling to walk away from is one you have already lost.

That aside, this sounds like a reasonable move anyway. A better fit (which I presume also means more like what you want to be doing) and a better commute with the salary you expect you're going to be getting at your job now? Yes, there's the additional uncertainty involved in any move, but otherwise this is a reasonable (if not impressive) bump in salary at ~7.5%

The issue of what you'd be making if your current employer had "done the right thing" is irrelevant, except in so far as it demonstrates that they have a history of not doing the right thing, in your opinion.
posted by phearlez at 8:52 AM on March 6, 2007

Hate to be a pessimist, but I wouldn't expect to see any give on salary on their side. There's always somebody who will do the work for that wage, especially tech work thats very competitive and hard to come by. You might be better off where you are now.
posted by dr_dank at 9:40 AM on March 6, 2007

You need to say that's what you are making now. They MAY increase by 5 thousand. More than that, I would be surprised.
posted by xammerboy at 10:04 AM on March 6, 2007

You can also try negotiating for additional perks instead of higher salary. Their hands may be tied when it comes to money, but they may be more amenable to things like better health/dental benefits, additional vacation/personal/sick time off, a 4-day work week, a 7 hour day, performance-based bonuses, etc. (not ALL those things, of course.)
posted by wubbie at 10:49 AM on March 6, 2007

Compare the salary ranges with the experience ranges. For example, if your experience in the primary area of responsibility is 10 years, and the position range calls for 6-10 years, that's a good piece of support that your salary should also be in the fourth quartile.

Universities are very beaureaucratic, you have to think like a HR wonk.
posted by miss tea at 10:55 AM on March 6, 2007

Research the HR system. Find out what HR requires for a staffer to be at midpoint, and make sure you meet those qualifications, so that when you negotiate for more pay, you can help the person doing the hiring get it accepted. Then you ask for more, politely, confidently and professionally. They will respect you more if you expect more from them.
posted by theora55 at 11:09 AM on March 6, 2007

An old boss of mine taught me the Noel Smith-Wenkle Salary Negotiation Method, and it got me a $5000 salary increase when I started my current job, essentially without my really trying.

The key is not to tell them how much you'll take. Tell them "the current offer is too low", but not by how much. Hopefully, this will cause them to pay you what they know you're worth -- most employers' initial offer is lower than the amount they'd be willing to actually give you. Giving them a number ("sorry, I need $bignum") just gives them a point to negotiate you down from. Make them offer up a number, instead.

At any rate, you already have another job with a promotion lined up, so there's no risk in trying. And it goes without saying that you ought to negotiate the other way, too: once you've got a good enough offer from the new job, show it to your boss and say, "I really want to stay, but this offer is very tempting. Can you make that promotion happen?"
posted by vorfeed at 11:25 AM on March 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

You may want to think through what you do if they won't shift - and also if, as vorfeed suggests, you go to your current employers and they won't raise your salary. If you accept the post knowing that they know you wanted a higher salary, you might feel a bit undignified. (I've just tried to negotiate with my current employers, having received another job offer, and when they refused to match it I felt I had to leave or I'd have felt that I was asking to be exploited.)
posted by paduasoy at 12:29 PM on March 6, 2007

Given that they advertised the job with a (quite large) salary range suggests that they're in a position to negotiate for the right person. And the fact that they picked you means that you're that right person.

"I was expecting something around the midpoint of the range based on my experience and skills. The offer is about what I'd expect to make at my current job after my next performance review." Sounds like a pretty good start to negotiations! Something along the lines of "I'd be looking at a salary around the middle of the range" gives them scope to improve the offer without giving them an ultimatum.

(And the suggestions about using an offer as leverage for your boss to push through your promotion is also good advice - from what you've said it sounds like a red tape hold-up more than anything else!)

The better commute and better fit with the technology is worth bearing in mind though as that's worth something to you. So think about what salary it would take for you to be sure that it is the right decision, and use that as your guide to accepting / rejecting their next offer.

Good luck!
posted by finding.perdita at 1:46 PM on March 6, 2007

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I told them I was excited about the job and they hold me that was their best offer. They recently upgraded the position from a PA/II and had to borrow from another department's budget to fund it. I said I'd let them know tomorrow.
posted by croatoan at 4:29 PM on March 6, 2007

Did you ask about how things might pan out in the future? Is their funding likely to increase at all? Are there pay reviews or other possibilities of an increase at some stage? Or does the fact that they could only scrape together this much now mean that's all they're going to pay for the foreseeable future?

The current offer is obviously not going to change. OK, you deal with that now. But knowing that there's a possibility of an increase not too far of (or not) is the next step. How does the future in the new place stack up against the future in your current place?

To some extent they're justified in offering you slightly less to begin with. You don't know their systems and procedures, you're not familiar with their IP and you're not currently up and running doing that particular specific job. So you're going to take a little time getting up to speed. This goes for any job no matter how good you are at what you do. The question I'd be asking myself is if I'm going to be rewarded further when I am up to speed and really productive. Are increases in skill level and knowledge of what that job required going to be recognised?

It may be too late to ask more specific questions so you may need to try and figure it out from what you've currently been told. FWIW my boyfriend took a pay cut for a new software engineering job that was more suited to what he does and what he wants to do, and the sideways step has opened up all kinds of future opportunities and career development that will have him earning more in the next year or two, not just than his new lower job but than what he could earn in his old job. In situations like this a small pay cut can be a worthwhile thing, and you're not even facing a pay cut with this new position.

Good luck deciding, figuring this stuff out is hard!
posted by shelleycat at 12:17 AM on March 7, 2007

OK, I should've done this sooner, but I figured out my actual current salary instead of what I thought it was, and it's $69.6K. I called to decline the offer because the difference is too small, and they bumped the offer up to $75K. (Did i say that was our final offer? Because this is our final offer.) So, I'll think it over and let them know tomorrow. The potential for raises would be the same since it's all the UC system.
posted by croatoan at 10:23 AM on March 7, 2007

What did your boss offer in return? (You've got nothing to lose by asking if you're planning on accepting.)

Did you take it? Let us know!
posted by finding.perdita at 1:33 PM on March 8, 2007