If he could, he would study abroad, drive a car, and vote for Steven Colbert...
March 2, 2007 2:01 AM Subscribe
What legal options are available to a 19 year old "American" without a driver's license or American citizenship who's parents have overstayed their legal welcome in this country and have devolved/absolved all responsibility?
He has lived here 16 of his 19 years. This is his home. His parents are small people, and while he wishes he could lead a regular life, his citizenship has precluded many of his prospects, and will preclude unfortunately those, too, afforded by his imminent university degree. What can he do? Any legal counsel is warmly appreciated.
He has lived here 16 of his 19 years. This is his home. His parents are small people, and while he wishes he could lead a regular life, his citizenship has precluded many of his prospects, and will preclude unfortunately those, too, afforded by his imminent university degree. What can he do? Any legal counsel is warmly appreciated.
bruce is spot on. U.S. Immigration law is not for the faint hearted, or the poorly informed or connected. Firms that are very successful doing immigration law generally do nothing else. If you are the immigrant, you want nothing less than the best you can get, as an unsuccessful result is often immediately life changing.
posted by paulsc at 2:47 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by paulsc at 2:47 AM on March 2, 2007
You need an immigration attorney, stat. Shoot me an E-mail, tell me where you are, and I'll ask my boss if she knows a good one in that area.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:18 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:18 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'll nth the suggestion of an immigration lawyer. The other approach that occasionally works is making it a public human interest story, in the press, and an issue for your local politicians. A phone call from a US senator goes a long way at the INS (or whatever they are called now). But for that you need a pretty good story, along the lines of sick child and hardships overcome and all that, which it doesn't sound like you have, but maybe there is more to the story than what you have said here.
So yes, get the kid a really good immigration lawyer, asap.
posted by Forktine at 3:44 AM on March 2, 2007
So yes, get the kid a really good immigration lawyer, asap.
posted by Forktine at 3:44 AM on March 2, 2007
Also, there are a number of universities that will enroll and fund illegal immigrants. It's expensive (they have to be scrupulous about not using federal money, so they have to eat the entire cost out of the university's operating budget) and politically controversial, so they don't publicize it. But if he does stay in the country, and he has good grades and test scores and all of that, going to a 4-year university is not an impossible idea for the kid. It won't solve the deeper legality issue, but it sure beats some of the other options.
posted by Forktine at 3:48 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by Forktine at 3:48 AM on March 2, 2007
He is graduating soon at 19? Wow. He should already have a green card or student visa to be able to be going to college. I guess he can start applying to grad schools and keep the student visa ball going. Applying for citizenship ASAP probably might be in his best interests. At 19 he is basically on his own as far as his status goes, so it makes no difference what his parents' status is.
posted by JJ86 at 5:47 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by JJ86 at 5:47 AM on March 2, 2007
Sorry for the slight derail, but since you're new here and specifically asked for legal counsel I think it I should point out that no (good) lawyer will give you legal advice over the internet. It's just a bad idea for everyone involved. If you're concerned about the cost of hiring a lawyer, call your state or local bar association and ask about legal aid organizations who provide immigration services and/or immigration lawyers who will do pro bono work or accept fees on a sliding scale. A lawyer does not have to be prohibitively expensive, but as others have pointed out immigration law is particularly convoluted and changes often. Your friend needs someone who is experienced in this field to help him navigate it.
posted by AV at 5:53 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by AV at 5:53 AM on March 2, 2007
To the ideas about the lawyers, rarely in this current climate does any legal route help unless you have a bottomless wallet. There are countless cases of innocent victims getting thrown back to their war torn countries because of the slightest of technicalities.
posted by JJ86 at 5:58 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by JJ86 at 5:58 AM on March 2, 2007
JJ86, this person is out of status. He is not eligible to apply for citizenship. He will have to leave the country to get a student visa, and then he could be subject to an entry ban. He cannot expect to file the papers himself, say he's sorry, and go collect his greencard, especially since his expertise is seemingly so limited that he is enlisting his friends to post to AskMetafilter about his situation. What is needed here is expert legal advice.
This lawyer comes highly recommended and specializes in waivers for immigrants with overstays. Here is her page about "getting legal." This will be easier on him while he's under 21, so get on it now.
posted by thirteenkiller at 6:45 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
This lawyer comes highly recommended and specializes in waivers for immigrants with overstays. Here is her page about "getting legal." This will be easier on him while he's under 21, so get on it now.
posted by thirteenkiller at 6:45 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
If a lawyer is too expensive, there are some law schools that run clinics that specialize in this area and may be able to help. Worth looking into.
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:45 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:45 AM on March 2, 2007
JJ86 demonstrates my point perfectly. He does not know what he's talking about -- take his advice at your peril.
posted by AV at 7:50 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by AV at 7:50 AM on March 2, 2007
thirteenkiller, are you sure about that? As I understand it you cannot go to university without an F1 student visa so if he is here studying at college it would stand to reason he already has one. So as long as he stays a student he is kosher.
posted by JJ86 at 8:07 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by JJ86 at 8:07 AM on March 2, 2007
I don't have any legal advice but I do have an anecdote:
I used to work for another country's trade department at their consulate in this country. One of the diplomats who was posted to that office had been there for about 10 or 12 years. His kids went all through school and graduated from a high school in this country. This was their home. When they turned 18, they had to return home to their country even though they had held diplomatic status up to that age and their parents remained in this country as diplomats. The position that this particular diplomat was in worked very closely with US INS, in fact the district head of INS was his golfing buddy, as well. Even with those connections, even though the parents remained in this country, the kids had to go back home.
posted by necessitas at 8:44 AM on March 2, 2007
I used to work for another country's trade department at their consulate in this country. One of the diplomats who was posted to that office had been there for about 10 or 12 years. His kids went all through school and graduated from a high school in this country. This was their home. When they turned 18, they had to return home to their country even though they had held diplomatic status up to that age and their parents remained in this country as diplomats. The position that this particular diplomat was in worked very closely with US INS, in fact the district head of INS was his golfing buddy, as well. Even with those connections, even though the parents remained in this country, the kids had to go back home.
posted by necessitas at 8:44 AM on March 2, 2007
As I understand it you cannot go to university without an F1 student visa so if he is here studying at college it would stand to reason he already has one.
A foreigner can attend university without an F1 if the university thinks that the foreigner is actually a US citizen (or legal permanent resident).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:07 AM on March 2, 2007
A foreigner can attend university without an F1 if the university thinks that the foreigner is actually a US citizen (or legal permanent resident).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:07 AM on March 2, 2007
JJ86, read the question. He was brought here by his parents when he was three years old. An F1 visa is if you're entering the country in your own name to study, not to enable people to study who are already here but not citizens. This kind of permit would not even have been an option at the time the OP's friend immigrated, and at the time he started school he had already been here for years and so an F1 permit wouldn't apply. He was likely brought here on a visitor's visa or some other temporary permit which simply expired, and since he was just a kid he couldn't do anything about it. Basically, his parents messed up.
albernathy0: As this demonstrates, the law really is very complicated and there are a lot of misconceptions about how the immigration process works. Your friend needs a competent lawyer. I truly feel for him and wish him the best of luck.
posted by AV at 9:21 AM on March 2, 2007
albernathy0: As this demonstrates, the law really is very complicated and there are a lot of misconceptions about how the immigration process works. Your friend needs a competent lawyer. I truly feel for him and wish him the best of luck.
posted by AV at 9:21 AM on March 2, 2007
I just wanted to post this story as a data point as to why it's better to deal with this sooner than later. I've also heard tales of this coming up after people start professional jobs and need to travel out of the country for work.
That said, this person needs an attorney.
posted by wildeepdotorg at 9:37 AM on March 2, 2007
That said, this person needs an attorney.
posted by wildeepdotorg at 9:37 AM on March 2, 2007
Here's a Willamette Week (Portland alt-weekly) article about a kid in a similar situation. It sounds to me, though, like the OP's friend is already in college, and about to graduate?
Here's the next week's followup.
posted by peep at 9:48 AM on March 2, 2007
Here's the next week's followup.
posted by peep at 9:48 AM on March 2, 2007
AV, colleges require students to reveal their status on admission applications. Whether it is a student visa, resident alien, or permanent resident the college requires that information and it will be on the admission application. The person could lie on the form but then could be in some serious shit if that became known. It would suck to find out that that degree that a person worked on for four years was invalidated.
I find it strange that you are not understanding this part of the problem when you [b]seem to know[/b] that I am completely wrong. It also seems odd to me that you know more about the OP's problem than he has stated. The OP has not said many of the things you are assuming like, "He was likely brought here on a visitor's visa or some other temporary permit which simply expired." Until you know some facts how exactly are you saying my advice is bad?
posted by JJ86 at 9:50 AM on March 2, 2007
I find it strange that you are not understanding this part of the problem when you [b]seem to know[/b] that I am completely wrong. It also seems odd to me that you know more about the OP's problem than he has stated. The OP has not said many of the things you are assuming like, "He was likely brought here on a visitor's visa or some other temporary permit which simply expired." Until you know some facts how exactly are you saying my advice is bad?
posted by JJ86 at 9:50 AM on March 2, 2007
JJ86, you are welcome to take this to MetaTalk if you like. This will be my last comment in this thread unless the OP specifically asks me to clarify something. You seem to have taken my comments as a personal attack, which was not my intent. I am not a lawyer -- yet -- but I have summered with an immigration lawyer at the US Attorney's Office and therefore I am reasonably confident in my opinion that a matter such as this is complex enough to require the attention of a lawyer.
Look at it this way: if the OP's friend had a valid student visa, why would he even be asking the question? As I explained above, it would not be possible in his situation to have obtained one because student visas are for people who immigrate to study. The person in question was already here. Although the OP has not given us enough information to tell, the way this usually plays out is that the OP's friend's parents probably obtained him a SSN at some point through whatever means (legal or otherwise), and he did indeed check the box that he was a legal US resident on his college application, because really, what else was he going to do? His parents screwed him over by keeping him illegal in the only country he's ever known.
In light of that, statements like these:
Applying for citizenship ASAP probably might be in his best interests
rarely in this current climate does any legal route help
are unhelpful because if the OP's friend follows your advice -- forgoing a lawyer and applying for citizenship on his own without having legal status first -- he will almost certainly run into a lot of trouble that could have been avoided even by just consulting a lawyer. I am not attacking you personally, but please realize that when posting advice like this you run the risk that someone might follow it to their detriment. And no, they probably won't sue you for it, but you don't want that kind of karma, do you?
posted by AV at 10:26 AM on March 2, 2007
Look at it this way: if the OP's friend had a valid student visa, why would he even be asking the question? As I explained above, it would not be possible in his situation to have obtained one because student visas are for people who immigrate to study. The person in question was already here. Although the OP has not given us enough information to tell, the way this usually plays out is that the OP's friend's parents probably obtained him a SSN at some point through whatever means (legal or otherwise), and he did indeed check the box that he was a legal US resident on his college application, because really, what else was he going to do? His parents screwed him over by keeping him illegal in the only country he's ever known.
In light of that, statements like these:
Applying for citizenship ASAP probably might be in his best interests
rarely in this current climate does any legal route help
are unhelpful because if the OP's friend follows your advice -- forgoing a lawyer and applying for citizenship on his own without having legal status first -- he will almost certainly run into a lot of trouble that could have been avoided even by just consulting a lawyer. I am not attacking you personally, but please realize that when posting advice like this you run the risk that someone might follow it to their detriment. And no, they probably won't sue you for it, but you don't want that kind of karma, do you?
posted by AV at 10:26 AM on March 2, 2007
colleges require students to reveal their status on admission applications. Whether it is a student visa, resident alien, or permanent resident the college requires that information and it will be on the admission application.
As I said before, not always. There are some universities that basically have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for really good students with immigration issues. No one likes to go on the record about it, but it happens fairly often. You are making some pretty confident assertions that just aren't necessarily true, and I think you should be a bit more cautious in what you are advising.
Anything having to do with immigration is murky and difficult. A good immigration lawyer will know both the letter of the law and the ways in which it is currently being enforced. There is a huge amount of information that matters --- from what country does the kid come? What was the original visa status? and so on --- which will affect the status going forward if he tries to get legal.
posted by Forktine at 10:34 AM on March 2, 2007
As I said before, not always. There are some universities that basically have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for really good students with immigration issues. No one likes to go on the record about it, but it happens fairly often. You are making some pretty confident assertions that just aren't necessarily true, and I think you should be a bit more cautious in what you are advising.
Anything having to do with immigration is murky and difficult. A good immigration lawyer will know both the letter of the law and the ways in which it is currently being enforced. There is a huge amount of information that matters --- from what country does the kid come? What was the original visa status? and so on --- which will affect the status going forward if he tries to get legal.
posted by Forktine at 10:34 AM on March 2, 2007
As a legal immigrant myself, I can only Nth the advice to get a good immigration lawyer. Unfortunately, good often means expensive, but this is something where you get what you pay for, and it is worth every penny. I have seen from other (legal immigrant) friends experiences the differences between good and really good. I have heard about the results of using cheap, and I would not recommend skimping. Immigration law is tortuous, complex and often contradictory, which is why you need an experienced lawyer who understands how to navigate such a tricky area. Please, please, do not do anything silly like applying for citizenship, your friend will just bring himself to the attention of the immigration services, get deported and become ineligible for re-entry. Sadly there is no simple answer to this problem.
Any advice suggesting that he apply for citizenship, or that lawyers are worthless is worth every penny you paid for it. Please take that from someone who knows first-hand, lawyer - yes, citizenship application - no. I could tell you some hair-raising stories about how BCIS operates that would help you understand why lawyers are absolutely necessary, and how contradictory and confusing dealing with BCIS is.
posted by Joh at 11:29 AM on March 2, 2007
Any advice suggesting that he apply for citizenship, or that lawyers are worthless is worth every penny you paid for it. Please take that from someone who knows first-hand, lawyer - yes, citizenship application - no. I could tell you some hair-raising stories about how BCIS operates that would help you understand why lawyers are absolutely necessary, and how contradictory and confusing dealing with BCIS is.
posted by Joh at 11:29 AM on March 2, 2007
JJ86: It may help your case if you told us what qualifications and experience you have which allow you to answer the OP's question. At the moment it seems as though you are pulling answers out of your hat, which unfortunately is the place most people find answers to immigration questions. A good immigration lawyer will clarify the question and give appropriate advice. There are lots of recommendations for lawyers elsewhere in AskMe.
posted by firstdrop at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by firstdrop at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
AV, colleges require students to reveal their status on admission applications. Whether it is a student visa, resident alien, or permanent resident the college requires that information and it will be on the admission application. The person could lie on the form but then could be in some serious shit if that became known. It would suck to find out that that degree that a person worked on for four years was invalidated.
A non-unreasonable risk that many, many people are willing to take instead of offering themselves up for deportation by applying for the proper paperwork. Do you think that all admissions offices verify the citizenship status of every single new student who states that they are a legal resident?
posted by desuetude at 11:45 AM on March 2, 2007
A non-unreasonable risk that many, many people are willing to take instead of offering themselves up for deportation by applying for the proper paperwork. Do you think that all admissions offices verify the citizenship status of every single new student who states that they are a legal resident?
posted by desuetude at 11:45 AM on March 2, 2007
Joh is absolutely correct that all immigration lawyers are not created equal - in addition to "you get what you pay for", another issue is they do not all have experience in individual areas. I had a lawyer who processed H1B applications, and that was pretty much all he did (or wanted to do). Worked for me, but I wouldn't have wanted him handling anything more complex. When your friend talks to lawyers, I'd suggest finding out if they have done similar cases - I have a very close friend whose CSS-LULAC case was initially botched by a decent immigration lawyer who had no experience with similar cases.
(A couple of my friends attended university in the US while illegal; it's certainly not impossible, especially if you have a social security number; I'd imagine an american accent must help too).
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2007
(A couple of my friends attended university in the US while illegal; it's certainly not impossible, especially if you have a social security number; I'd imagine an american accent must help too).
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2007
Unless he has some pretty generous sponsors, I would be surprised if this kid has the money for a lousy, cheap lawyer. Getting a good, expensive is probably not reality for him.
This blog might provide some good info. If nothing else, some of the groups linked to on the left side might have insight and resources.
Oh, and it is completely possible for illegal aliens to go to college in the US. Based on this article, it seems fairly common.
Also, I thought I had heard about illegal aliens joining the army to get citizenship. I don't know if it is true or not, maybe someone else can weigh in on that? If the army does allow them to join, that might be an avenue, as well.
posted by necessitas at 12:33 PM on March 2, 2007
This blog might provide some good info. If nothing else, some of the groups linked to on the left side might have insight and resources.
Oh, and it is completely possible for illegal aliens to go to college in the US. Based on this article, it seems fairly common.
Also, I thought I had heard about illegal aliens joining the army to get citizenship. I don't know if it is true or not, maybe someone else can weigh in on that? If the army does allow them to join, that might be an avenue, as well.
posted by necessitas at 12:33 PM on March 2, 2007
albernathy0, if money is a problem, in many cities Catholic Charities provides legal assistance with immigration. The one in my city does this on a sliding scale, and the clients do not need to be Catholic (the majority of their clients here are Muslim, and AFAIK no one ever proselytizes to the clients).
If they're active in your area, they may be able to refer your friend to someone else, even if he doesn't meet the income requirements for their services.
posted by dilettante at 7:36 PM on March 2, 2007
If they're active in your area, they may be able to refer your friend to someone else, even if he doesn't meet the income requirements for their services.
posted by dilettante at 7:36 PM on March 2, 2007
Oh, and there's a a bill called the DREAM Act in Congress now that would address the situation. No idea what its chances are, though.
posted by dilettante at 8:46 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by dilettante at 8:46 PM on March 2, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by bruce at 2:18 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]