MannersFilter: Getting a maybe to become a solid answer and dealing with people who break dates.

March 1, 2007 9:14 AM

What to do when someone says yes and then backs out? How to avoid maybe and I'll-think-about-it answers, or get them sorted out before it's too late to make other plans?

The situation: On Monday or Tuesday I ask a casual friend if they would like to do something low key, like going for dinner or watching a specific show together, this weekend and they say "maybe". Then I never hear back from them.

Alternatively: I plan something (still relatively low key) two or three weeks in advance, set a date and time, and have a "yes". About an hour before that specific time, I get a call saying that the person has made other plans and has to cancel (note: not "I'm in the hospital, I have to cancel" but "someone else asked me to do something and I'm canceling").

This doesn't always happen and it's not always the same person doing it, but when it does it really, REALLY bothers me and it's been happening more and more recently. I usually haven't been able to make other last minute plans with anyone (understandably) and a couple of times it's been something that can't be done any old time and also something where I don't want to "just go by myself" (going to the fair, for example, which is only in town for one week each year).

What I've tried doing so far: Explaining to people when making plans basically what I've said in this post, stressing that it's important to me that they say yes or no as soon as possible and that if they say yes then they don't cancel for trivial reasons. Unfortunately, judging from reactions, this is causing people to say no when they would otherwise have said yes and followed through, which is counterproductive.

So how do I deal with this without coming across as psycho? Am I just wrong in thinking that the person you said yes to first is the person you hang out with on whatever day, even if someone more interesting comes along later? Is there a way that I can say no to a maybe answer, so that I can start looking for someone who can definitely make it? When and how often do you call to see if a maybe has resolved into a definite answer? How to ask "When will you know by?" in response to a maybe (for casual/very low key stuff) without coming across as demanding?

posted by anaelith to human relations (40 comments total)

I think you're entirely justified in thinking that once you accept an invitation to do something that should be honoured even if 'someone more interesting' asks you to do something later. I wouldn't dream of cancelling on a friend just because I decide I'd rather do something else - I have made a commitment to that person, and cancelling in favour of something else is just rude.

Perhaps when you've made the arrangement, regardless of a maybe or a yes answer, you should call them up a couple of days before or the day before the event to check whether they definately plan on coming. If their answer then is still non-commital then if you can, make other plans. If they say then that thay'll come and cancel at the last mintue you should tell them straight just how it makes you feel, and that you think it's rude.
posted by schmoo at 9:21 AM on March 1, 2007

oops they'll come!... And at the last minute. I apologise!
posted by schmoo at 9:24 AM on March 1, 2007

When you get a maybe I think it's perfectly reasonable to say something to the effect that you want to know if you need to make other plans, should you just do that or will they know for sure if they can go by tomorrow.

When someone cancels on you with one hours notice to tell you they planned something else and are going to do that instead I am personally giving you permission - email me a fax number if you need something in writing - to get full-on angry and tell them this is unacceptably rude of them. Because IT IS.

People who do that to you are not your friends, or at least not ones you want. I've spaced on a commitment or two but you can be sure that when I called someone to tell them I (a) did it more than an hour in advance and (2) did my best to honor the INITIAL commitment, unless for some reason the other one was a then-or-never.

Seriously. People who treat you this way over idle dinner commitments are not going to treat you any better over more serious things. Check your wallet and your significant other after the visit.
posted by phearlez at 9:25 AM on March 1, 2007

1. Follow up.
2. Sound really really excited about the prospect of hanging out with them. When and if they call to cancel, get really dejected. "Oh, that's too bad, I was really looking forward to hanging out with you!" Give 'em a guilt trip
3. Find a friend who has a lot of free time and is willing to come hang out at the very last minute - a sort of "Girl Friday" only as a friend. Do Not Let Her Know that she's a "second choice".
4. Get cooler friends.
posted by muddgirl at 9:25 AM on March 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

Don't ask "When will you know by?" Set a time: "If I don't hear from you by X o'clock, I'll make other plans." Take control back properly - it'll be best for all involved. If they flake, and it bothers you, you *will* treat them differently, consciously or no, and it will affect your relationship with them in an adverse manner. Now mind, you don't *have* to make other plans, or maybe your other plans will be to do nothing, or to take a nap, or whatever, but this way you assert that you need definite answers.

In similar situations I tend to want to go with "You agreed to this, and you didn't follow through, what happened?" The trick is not sounding all bossy and authoritative, but more caring and concerned. When they give you their reasons it's important to not blow them off like YOU should have come FIRST, but to sort of say, yeah, I understand, but next time just call me and let me know. (Not that you would ever do this, I don't know you and all, I'm just speaking from my own experience - if you ask why you need to be prepared to accept the reasons without unreasonably flipping out, or people won't tell you why next time.)

As far as them saying no when they otherwise would have said yes and followed through...I think you may be doing some assuming here. Let them say no. That's on their dime, really. The consequences of them saying no enough would be that you'd stop asking. If this is in a work environment obviously that would cause issues, and there are other ways to deal with it (is it?), but in the arena of personal relationships there's a lot less you can do to motivate people into agreeing to things. Sometimes you need to just find someone who wants to say yes and mean it. There are those people out there! You are not crazy for expecting it, either.
posted by routergirl at 9:27 AM on March 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

They're being cowardly (I know because I do this sometimes)... they don't want to reject you to your face, so they'll say yes or maybe and then not show up.

How do you deal with it? They don't want to do anything with you, so stop inviting them. When you get into the whole "You hurt my feelings, I need to know by X time" conversations, you just come off as pathetic and/or needy. It's off-putting. Are you that desperate for their friendship that you'd let them walk over you like that? Take their hint and stop inviting them.

Focus on the people that will treat you properly instead of trying to hang on to those who aren't as interested in you as you are in them.
posted by MegoSteve at 9:30 AM on March 1, 2007

Oh and like the others said while I was babbling away into the response text box:

People who treat you this way over idle dinner commitments are not going to treat you any better over more serious things.

Your life is your choice - seriously, choose people who find you more interesting, who place a higher priority on commitments, even minor ones. Put your damn foot down.
posted by routergirl at 9:31 AM on March 1, 2007

I did this last night.

Friend: "Oh... well, call me in half an hour and I'll make a decision."
Me: "No deal. Talk to you later."
posted by jon_kill at 9:32 AM on March 1, 2007

I think this is cultural. When I lived in Montreal, doing something like this was unthinkable - invitations were issued well in advance, you either said yes or no to an invitation, and that was that.

Here in Vancouver - goodness. Don't make plans ahead of time, people are last-minute. In my social life and in the events that I have helped organize for associations, people tend to accept at the very last minute. For associations (monthly meetings with meal and speaker) it's particularly difficult as we had to confirm seating, food, etc a few days in advance. 75% of our confirms were on the week right before an event.

As a former Easterner, I used to find this behavior so very rude, but after living 17 years in Vancouver I'm kinda used to it. Kinda.
posted by seawallrunner at 9:42 AM on March 1, 2007

On Monday or Tuesday I ask a casual friend if they would like to do something low key, like going for dinner or watching a specific show together, this weekend and they say "maybe".

Maybe means no. It's just a polite/cowardly way of saying it. When you hear this, make other plans.

Alternatively: I plan something (still relatively low key) two or three weeks in advance, set a date and time, and have a "yes". About an hour before that specific time, I get a call saying that the person has made other plans and has to cance

Something doesn't sound right here. You have no opportunity in the intervening weeks to see that person, even casually? To say, "Hey, are we still on for Friday?" For something so far in advance you have to keep 'lightly touching' people. I dont consider this extraordinary. It seems part of basic sociability to me.
posted by vacapinta at 9:46 AM on March 1, 2007

I don't really know what advice to give, but I can tell you that this happens to me too and it really bothers me. A friend will ask what I'm up to on a particular weekend, I'll tell him and invite him along, he will agree, and then he will cancel last minute when something better comes along. I realize that this friend is asking all his friends the same thing, and getting invites from different people, and then picking the best option night-of. However, if by chance I go out and don't invite this friend, he will act very offended and hurt that I did not invite him. Rinse, repeat, with far too many people I know. The thing is - I have to put up with it or I won't have any friends, because so many people are like this!
posted by infinityjinx at 9:47 AM on March 1, 2007

Just start treating "maybe" as "probably not", and go ahead and make other plans if you want to. If you make definite plans with someone else, call your "maybe" friend back and cancel. If they won't commit to the date, you are under no obligation.

And yeah, people who say yes and then blow you off last minute are assholes.
posted by contraption at 9:51 AM on March 1, 2007

I have been dealing with this exact issue with a few people lately. I don't think it's always fair to say "these people aren't your friends."

I have noticed that certain people, usually women in their early 20s, tend to just not want to give a firm "yes" or "no" answer. I don't know whether its for fear of seeming rude, wanting to keep their options open, or what, but its a constant pattern.

I would advise you to firmly but politely confront the people who do this to you: "hey you know, it kind of bothers me when you do that."

Anyone who is your real friend will apologize and try to do better in the future.

Anyone who isn't will try to turn it around and blame you, or just blow it off with "that's just how I am."
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:54 AM on March 1, 2007

-- Extend invitations to people you know have a strong interest in a particular thing

-- Set a date for getting together, but let the other person choose the activity

-- Follow up the day before, to see if plans are still on

-- Don't plan low key get togethers 2 or 3 weeks out. Only events that require tickets/reservations/travel need that kind of advanced planning. Call 5 days ahead, max. Planning casual get-togethers far in advance gives the impression that your schedule is wide open and that you can be dropped for someone else because you're free any time.
posted by junkbox at 10:00 AM on March 1, 2007

First of all I think you should relax. I think you may be putting undue pressure on your friends to adhere to etiquette that they don't naturally understand. It turns every invitation into a test, and every cancellation, no matter how justified, into a personal failure. Setting a tone like this is not exactly the best way to make people want to spend time with you.

Cultivate a rich personal life. When plans suddenly fall through, because of the gap in your schedule you suddenly have more than enough time to stew over it. Instead, when you hear, "Whoops! Sorry, not tonight," have your life set up so that you automatically have something else to do. Over time I've gotten to the point when I'm often actually grateful for a cancellation, because I even though I would have had fun, I have suddenly realized how satisfying it would be to spend an evening working on this painting, or something.

The best way to appreciate other people's busy (sometimes exclusive) personal lives is to have one of your own.

Also, it helps to know which of your friends are often available at the last minute, who don't mind being called spontaneously when other people cancel. I have a few friends who I often call in a pinch, and a lot of the time we wind up filling the blanks in each others' dance cards.
posted by hermitosis at 10:02 AM on March 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

I don't put up with that shit and I have friends. If it bothers you, then stop inviting cancellers out: either they will get it together and invite you out or you have time to make new friends.
posted by dame at 10:05 AM on March 1, 2007

First off, I'm really surprised that people are being so adamant that this is totally unacceptable behavior. I think that many people sometimes cancel plans like this. (I never do).

This type of thing used to REALLY bother me too and I initially dealt with it by trying to get stronger and clearer commitments from people about plans. This is the wrong strategy. It freaks people out and they don't want to feel like you're going to be mad if they can't make it.

Social relationships are more ambiguous than we sometimes like. I have found the best strategy is to simply be clear in YOUR mind that plans are not 100% unless it is something really formal/planned like a concert or dinner party.

'Let's go see a movie on Sat'
'OK, sounds good'
to most people (IMHO) means 'right now I want to see a movie on Sat but obviously something else might come up.'

When I have casual plans with someone, I often call the night before or the day of (depending on the time of the plans) and say, 'Hey, are we still on for a movie tonight?' and I assume that the answer might be no. I make this assumption NOT because it is ok to ditch people--it's really rude--but because it's useful for preventing me from getting upset.

Also, some friends are just unreliable. You either need to accept that it's worth spending time with them and just always assume that they might cancel last-minute or decide that you don't want friends like that. Don't try to change them, choose for yourself if you like spending time with them enough to make it worth it to you.
posted by underwater at 10:14 AM on March 1, 2007

That kind of behavior from friends used to drive me crazy, too. I learned to handle it by taking control back into my own hands. If they say "maybe," I say, "If I haven't heard from you by X, I'll just assume you're not coming." And I make sure X is early enough to give me plenty of time to find other plans. I can't control these people, and sitting around waiting for them to call me back made me feel awful. Now they don't get to control my social destiny, and I feel much better.

Another thing that helped alleviate the problem is that lately I usually make plans with a group of people. That way if someone decides to do something else, I've still got plans with everybody else.

And finally, to echo many of the above comments, the majority of my friends aren't big enough jerks to cancel one-on-one plans because they found something "better" to do. Maybe you need new friends.
posted by vytae at 10:22 AM on March 1, 2007

A possible strategy: no matter the event you invite them too, pretend you're going to buy tickets that night. If they say "yes", then say "Ok, I'm going to buy the tickets tonight". If they say "maybe", then say "I'm going to buy tickets tonight, so I need to know now or real soon, Ok?" Or something along those lines. Yes, you even if you're just going for a walk in the hills, you need tickets. If they flake on you, guilt them with the fact that you bought tickets. If they act like jerks, double the ticket price.
posted by mikshir at 10:22 AM on March 1, 2007

I plan something (still relatively low key)...

How likely is it that your 'relatively low key' is 'extremely' to your friends?

If somebody doesn't tie me down with an exact plan, just throws out an idea, it usually remains just that to me -- an idea. I don't always keep it as a firm plan; I often, often subconsciously, expect there's a reasonable chance of their plans changing, too. Especially w/ weeks in advance for things like dinners and movies that do not -- for most people -- require a lot of advance planning.

That said, I think it's reasonable to think it rude if it does involve something like a fair where there's a limited opportunity to do it. Try tying them down to a time, "so (you) can write it in (your) calendar."
posted by kmennie at 10:23 AM on March 1, 2007

I'm wondering if part of the problem is the way you are framing the invitation. You qualified both examples as "low-key" events; is it possible that in issuing your invitations, you are sounding a bit wishy-washy about the importance of the event or of it actually happening?

I totally agree that it is completely rude for someone to back out on an invitation for the weak reasons that have been given to you. You are completely right in your feelings that you should not be treated this way, however, we all do well with adding a little marketing in our lives to ensure that what you are selling is actually being bought. How one issues an verbal invitation often makes a big difference in outcome.

Examples:

Wishy-washy: "So, um...what do you think about catching dinner somewhere next week...ah, like next Friday or whatever? Cool, OK let me know."

vs.

Marketing: "Hey, did you catch that review of Foo Bar & Grill in the paper last week? I'm dying to try out their Chicken Florentine and they've got a jazz quartet at night. Sounds good? How about this Friday, meet you in the bar at 7? Great, see you then."

If the above finds you still being stood up, then yeah: get better friends.

on preview, what kmennie said
posted by jamaro at 10:32 AM on March 1, 2007

Yay! Another question of differing culture-expectations!

I am a plans-in-advance girl in a relationship with a at-the-last-minute guy. My situation has some benefits, because I get to yell at/discuss with said guy re: things.

State to people that you Have Expectations. If they say yes, they'll be there, excepting emergencies. Ask for their expectations. Do they tend to set up things sometimes, too, or are you doing all the work? What are their timelines for setting up events? Explain to them in painful detail your Expectations. Let them know that it makes you anxious and grumpy when people stand you up, and find a way to have them understand that anxious-grumpy stood-up feeling. Maybe tell them to err on the side of "no" if they're unsure, so as to not get your hopes up to wreck them later on.

Instead of saying to them that it is rude of them to cancel last minute, focus on the fact that it makes you unhappy and unimportant. Ask them why they think that canceling last minute is a fine thing to do.

Another great thing is to find someone who feels the same way. For me, it is lovely to have a friend for whom being on time is important, as is giving prompt notice if there are some changes in plans. Making plans a few days or weeks in advance and having those plans stick.

Your friends don't necessarily hate you. They might just not realize that it bothers you as much as it does. Let them know that it does, or they'll continue to do it, thinking that last-minute cancellations are not a Big Deal.
posted by that girl at 10:32 AM on March 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

I had a friend with your same problem. The issue on my side is that when things are kind of out-in-the-future (dinner, for example) more than a day or so in advance, I read suggestions for plans as a suggestion that something would be fun. For example:

Friend: hey, we should hang out in the next couple of weeks!
Me: yeah, that'd be awesome.

I don't assume that we've nailed down anything. If it's convenient and something to do comes up, I'll call her or she'll call me. If I'm going out for drinks with friends, I'll bring her along. Same thing goes for "Hey, we should try this restaurant some time." Either way, I consider "yeah, that'd be fun" to be very non-committal.

I know that in countries like Mexico, it is more rude to turn down someone's invitation than it is to not show up to a scheduled appointment. I think (young American) culture is moving in that direction. I personally am surprised at your reaction to the long-term stuff, though I do understand how you're upset at the last-minute cancelling.

Ultimately, though, going back to the friend that felt this way, the issue was more that I (and other friends) didn't read suggestions as commitments; we thought we were agreeing to the idea that certain things would indeed be fun to do some time, not that we would be at X place at Y time to fulfill said activity. Talk to your friends -- you don't all have to have the same expectations, but as long as you know that you're reading each other differently, maybe that will help?
posted by olinerd at 10:36 AM on March 1, 2007

While you say it is not the same people every time, my experience is that there are people I can basically count on to keep plans and people I can't. I used to get really bugged by the people I couldn't count on, then decided that was just their personality/lifestyle and so be it. I still like these people, they just get relegated to a different tier of my social planning (obviously a more contingent and lower priority one).

Now, with the people I can't count on, I view all plans I make with them as either:

A. (If the plans rely on their involvement, i.e. let's get together and play ping pong): I've got nothing to do that night but if this person shows up/calls me to do X, cool.

B. (If it is something I can basically enjoy on my own, like seeing a movie): they might make it too, if not, no big deal.

When you stop expecting that follow through it stops making you mad. Now instead of being upset when they don't show up I'm pleasantly surprised.

I also go with jon_kill's strategy when a person wants me to call at some allotted time to determine whether they have decided they want to have plans with me, unless I am content with not having plans that evening as the alternative, I just say, I'm going to check in with somebody else, maybe another day for us then. In general these people know who they are and you aren't the only person they have this problem with, so that stance has never really caused a problem.
posted by nanojath at 11:39 AM on March 1, 2007

Seconding Schmoo that you need to ring them a day or two in advance and get them to confirm it. Don't forget that a lot of people are just very disorganized.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:40 AM on March 1, 2007

This just happened to me.

Friend: The skiing looks great this weekend.
Me: Wanna go skiing?
Friend: No, maybe, I don't know, I'll call you tomorrow and tell you then.
Me: Um, OK.

Next day, he leaves message on my phone:
Friend: Well, I guess I'll go if you still want to, but I have to ask you about how this is going to work, blah blah.

I call back two hours later.
Friend: Oh, I didn't think I was going to hear from you...

Me: Fuck this.
Friend: What's with the big drama? You asked me, and now you don't want to go?
Me: You're right, I'm sorry. Let's go.

We go. Bitch, bitch, bitch. "I hate to be a burnout, I guess I just don't feel like skiing -- as I keep telling you, I was up all night at that concert of music you like a block from your house..."

There's a message in this somewhere. What can it be? I think I need to have an open and honest discussion with this guy about his actions and my feelings and maybe then I can get him to tell me what it all means. I'm being unclear about my expectations or too demanding -- that's probably what it is.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:42 AM on March 1, 2007

I don't think it's wrong to want people to honor commitments. Just because a lot of people don't plan ahead doesn't mean they should dump you because something better came up. If they're a friend, shouldn't spending time together outweigh a better activity if they've already agreed and you've made plans?

This type of thing used to REALLY bother me too and I initially dealt with it by trying to get stronger and clearer commitments from people about plans. This is the wrong strategy. It freaks people out and they don't want to feel like you're going to be mad if they can't make it.

Sounds like the right strategy to me, because I AM going to get mad. Message received - their plans, however last minute, are more important than mine. Thanks for the consideration.

Those friends can be relegated to only last-minute invitations in the future, if you still want to hang out with them.

I wish I could invite Miss Manners to this thread.
posted by timepiece at 12:08 PM on March 1, 2007

I second kmennie. When people invite me to things, I mentally assign it the importance/firmness that they conveyed to me. Possibly adjusted for how much planning time I think is required. "Hey, why don't you come hang out this weekend some time" is a lot more vague than, "I'm going to X movie, do you want to go?" Careful, though, because in that last one, it's implied that you're going with or without me, and I can tag along. That's different from "I want to see X movie, will you go with me?" If they're cooking dinner, or something with tickets, etc, it's assumed they're counting on me to be there. So the problem could be the way you're asking.

I have no problem with someone saying they need to know for sure by T, making the commitment explicit. I don't find that rude at all. So you might try that.
posted by ctmf at 12:24 PM on March 1, 2007

I'll pile on.

anaelith: you're not being unreasonable. If people give you wishy-washy answers, call them on it right then. If people stand you up, take that as a life-lesson and don't invite them to anything where you're really counting on their presence. Invite them to parties where "it'd be nice if so-and-so shows up, but if not, no big deal." Let them invite you to stuff. If that never happens, that's a useful lesson as well.

I've got a friend who's terrible about keeping social appointments. He'll even bail out on engagements he suggests to me. Yes, it's rude, and yes, it's annoying. He's still a friend, but I just have a different idea of what it means to "plan" something with him.
posted by adamrice at 12:56 PM on March 1, 2007

Alas, it seems that so many people these days might as well have been raised by wolves for all the observance of etiquette that they choose to employ. I feel for you, anaelith, I have several people in my life who also seem to confuse non-committal with cool.

The way that I have chosen to deal with it is to go ahead and make plans (although I make plans closer to the day than I used to) and if I don't hear from them or they cancel, then I just act like it couldn't matter less (seems to make them wonder if I have made other plans).

In my new locale, it just seems to be the way things are, although where I used to live it was considered unacceptable. I figure that I still care about my friends and as long as the plusses in my relationships are greater than the minuses, then I just move forward with them.

Of course, sometimes when this happens to me, I catch myself thinking, "Wow, someday I'm going to have friends who don't play this game and I gotta wonder how things will change at that point." Hope this helps. Take care, anaelith, and continue to be one of those people who means it when they agree to plans (we need more of you).
posted by melangell at 12:58 PM on March 1, 2007

I have been dealing with this exact issue with a few people lately. I don't think it's always fair to say "these people aren't your friends."

Only one person has said that. The rest of us are just saying they're crappy friends.
posted by phearlez at 1:45 PM on March 1, 2007

This is something I've had to deal with on & off lately. Now that I'm trying to do more entertaining. Anyway...

anaelith - Part of the solution to the problem is on your end. If there are people you know who act this way, then don't rely on them. You can let them know if you think it will help, but I doubt it. I have a friend who I used to work with (we were then in our late 20's) who, when approached with plans ("Hey Larry! We're meeting for happy hour at Grebley's. Want to join us?") Would say, "If I can make it, I'll be there." Which was his way of saying, "Unless I find something more interesting/enjoyable, I'll be there." Only slightly less rude, in my opinion.

Oh, and underwater - I don't know about "unacceptable behavior". It's just inconsiderate. And, yes, bad manners.

melangell - I'm with you. I can forgive people not knowing "etiquette", but bad manners really irks me. And it seems that not only are good manners falling by the wayside, but bad manners (and downright rudeness) is becoming the norm. I know, I'm old.

*Hikes up pants to chest level. Shakes fist at damn kids on lawn*
posted by ObscureReferenceMan at 2:23 PM on March 1, 2007

I have a friend that solves this by having everybody sign a piece of paper that way if anybody backs out they have to pay the agreed upon penalty. (this usually involves some kind of ritual humiliation or physical violence)

This is sort of a guy only thing now that I think about it.
posted by Megafly at 4:42 PM on March 1, 2007

If people just say maybe or they'll think about it, they're trying to let you down easy. (It took me the longest time to figure that out). If someone says that to me, I consider it a no and make alternate arrangements or plans, unless they specifically give me a deadline for "thinking about it" that's acceptable to me. If they mention going somewhere specific, or doing this or trying that, I don't consider it a commitment until they've actually given me a time and a date (I say yes to their suggestion, but I leave it to them to do the planning and arrangements). Likewise I expect that they honour their plans with me if I set a date/time/place.

I had friends who suggested something and expected you to co-plan the outing, and friends (on a memorable vacation) who suggested a million outings and things to do and ditched all those plans when we got there and more interesting people were had (not sure why I was never invited along with those new friends). Everyone seems to have their own way of doing things.

If making plans a week or more in advance, I usually give people a call about two days beforehand to reconfirm.

But yeah, it's a tough one, because sometimes people are simply scatterbrained or forgetful. I just make a note of it for acquaintances, but for a friend: if it's not an emergency, they've done it a few times, and I've talked to them about it (and they don't seem at all apologetic for upsetting me), I'd go look for other friends. It's not a good thing to let yourself be taken for granted, especially if you've acquired a reputation for being nice. At least you'll distinguish between those who simply have this flaw in their personality, and those who really don't care about you.
posted by elisynn at 5:36 PM on March 1, 2007

Lousy, ill-mannered so-called friend here.

I was just wondering, are your friends really telling you they got a better offer before they flake on you? I know a big reason I flake is because at the time I made the commitment I didn't realize how tired I was going to be or how much homework I was going to have to do on the day it actually rolled around. I know it's still crappy of me but it's not like I'm ditching them for a "fun" reason.

Whatever you do, don't harp on your friends to commit by a certain time. It will make you seem crazy and uptight. Go ahead and call them and ask them if you're still on for Saturday or whatever but don't be pedantic about it. If they screw you over multiple times and you're hurt by it, go ahead and tell them, they very well might straighten up their act. Especially, if they like you.

Also consider the possibility that they're avoiding you for a reason.

Finally, don't underestimate the power of the written invitation. I, personally, am much more likely to remember and attend an event to which I was invited by mail or even e-vite.

If all else fails, start forging friendships with others more like yourself and leave us go-with-the-flow types to our own devices.
posted by Jess the Mess at 5:47 PM on March 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

I've been guilty of this in the past— if the invitation is at all vague or blase about the significance of the event ("oh, hey, I'm having a BBQ on this date, around this time— it would be cool if you came"), then chances are I won't go if something else comes up, or if I just don't feel like leaving the house. I think a lot of this is laziness, in my case!

I eventually realised that this was a kinda crappy way to treat people, and so now I am always really careful to ascertain the exact details of events and make sure I RSVP and stick to my agreement rather than just pretending to forget if they called me on it... I got so sick of feeling guilty about it that I changed my behaviour.

I definitely agree that you should make concrete plans, confirm them, and let people know how disappointed you are if they bail. Eventually they will get the message that it's important to you!
posted by indienial at 6:17 PM on March 1, 2007

Weed out your flakier friends by setting firm boundaries. If they flake out on you more than once, tell them that it's not acceptable, and if they do it once more, stop inviting them to stuff. Yes, you'll have fewer friends, but it's well worth your while.
posted by desjardins at 6:49 AM on March 2, 2007

this is causing people to say no when they would otherwise have said yes and followed through...
Am I just wrong in thinking that the person you said yes to first is the person you hang out with on whatever day, even if someone more interesting comes along later?

It sounds like you are going on the idea that you can get someone to say 'yes' a couple weeks in advance so that you can be "first". Things come up, and even if they are not emergencies a lot of them will have a higher priority than meeting up with someone one barely knows. Old friends pop up in town for a day or two, projects have meetings and deadlines, one gets behind on study/work/laundry. At the time they said yes, nothing was planned 3 weeks off, but life has become busier than expected in the interm.

I ask a casual friend if they would like to do something ... this weekend
Well, you don't have plans then, if you have not suggested a specific day and time. When they say 'maybe', you should call again close to the weekend, unless they have made it very clear that you should expect a call (and if the call does not come, that means 'no')
posted by yohko at 9:33 AM on March 2, 2007

Maybe = no. Flag it and move on.

More seriously, I think it will greatly improve your social planning if you assume maybe=no. Or, more specifically,
"Maybe" = "No for now, but I would like you to check back halfway between now and the time you want to get together. If I say maybe THEN, then that means no."

As for your need to plan things versus your friends' needs to not have things planned, you can address that on a one-on-one basis. The next time you try to plan with someone and they try to procrastinate an answer, explain honestly why it is that you need to have a plan in place.
Here are some possible reasons:
"I have some errands to run this weekend, but I wanted to make some time to see you"
"I want to know whether I should buy these tickets for the thing we would go to"
"I wanted to make definite plans with you so I have something to look forward to in my weekend"
"I just really like having pre-set times for seeing people; I know it's weird, but I guess I'm weird like that"

I'm the same way - my reason is usually #3 above - I just like having something to look forward to all week. If I call one friend and get a maybe, I take it as a no and move on to another friend. If the first friend ever gets back to me to change the maybe to a yes, then I get to either (1) include them in the plans I've made with another friend, (2) regretfully tell them that I made other plans, maybe we can hang out another time, or (3) tell them great! see you at 7!

If you end up with one of those weekends when everyone else has plans, go out and see a movie, and try again next time. Sometimes, when I call friends about this weekend and they can't make it, I ask about the following weekend. If we do set something up, I usually set it up for a time of day, with a promise to nail down a time later. That way, when I check in on the timing a few days before the event, if they've forgotten about the plans, they'll be reminded.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 11:54 AM on March 2, 2007

Thanks, everyone! I just want to let you all know I'm reading and appreciating and thinking everything over, so far every post has been useful. I'm not going to mark "best answer" since I think anyone with a similar question would do best to just read the whole thread.
posted by anaelith at 1:02 PM on March 2, 2007