Help with Hebrew Translation.

February 26, 2007 9:02 AM

Seeking help with Hebrew translation. Basar Echad, does this really mean "one flesh"?

My wife and I are planning on getting matching tattoos in Hebrew. I want to make sure we get the text in the correct format and translation. Knowing that Hebrew is read right to left I assume we put the words in order of echad basar (when looking at it on paper), is this correct? So when reading it right to left it says basar echad. (Sorry if this is confusing).

The following two links are to the best sites I could find.

echad
basar

If you know of better sites, please let me know. I appreciate any help!

posted by birdlips to society & culture (26 comments total)

The relevant part of Genesis in Hebrew, transliterated Hebrew, and English.

Looks like they transliterate it a little differently: 'levasar echad.' That said, the words look to be the correct ones. I don't know anything about Hebrew grammar, so I can't say if it's correct down to the diacriticals, though.

Clarification: Do you want the tattoos in Hebrew script or in transliterated Hebrew?
posted by jedicus at 9:20 AM on February 26, 2007

בָשָׂר אֶחָד

appears to be how this site renders it. (That site has the advantage of being copy-pastable). I hope the Hebrew renders correctly.

The two sites I've linked use different fonts, so I can't say definitively if they're the same characters or not.
posted by jedicus at 9:23 AM on February 26, 2007

Update: Yes, we plan on having it in Hebrew script and the text you pasted is exaclty what we have found so far.
posted by birdlips at 9:33 AM on February 26, 2007

With respect to the levasar/basar thing: The Hebrew letter that makes the English 'B' sound also makes the English 'V' sound, depending on whether or not a dot appears in the middle of it. (See Bet/Vet here.) Certain older texts do not include this distinction. Similarly, certain texts do not include vowels (which, in Hebrew, are the dots and dashes that appear beneath the letters). Therefore inclusion of the dots, both in the Bet/Vet and the vowels, would be optional for tattooing purposes and could depend somewhat on aesthetic considerations. If you want pronunciation to be instantly possible for even non-native speakers, however, you're better off including them.

As for the "le," Hebrew is somewhat like French in that articles, conjunctions, and prepositions are occasionally merged with the words they modify. So you can read "levasar" as "l'vasar." I don't have much actual Hebrew knowledge, but I'm I'm pretty sure it's just adding "the" before it. I can't speak to grammar, but since that is the text as it appears in the text Jedicus links to, it seems believable to me.
posted by Partial Law at 9:37 AM on February 26, 2007

Partial Law is correct about the pretty much everything he said, including the "le" portion. I'll also add that if I were to get a hebrew tattoo, I'd keep in mind that tattoos are forbidden within the Jewish faith, so some Jews might look at your tattoos and think it was a bit odd. This has been my reaction when I've seen Hebrew tattoos on various people. That being said, if I were to get a Hebrew tattoo, I'd take off the diacriticals. Most printed Hebrew that you'll find in the wild leaves off the diacriticals, and people read the words based on context.
posted by Inkoate at 9:55 AM on February 26, 2007

The actual phrase in the Hebrew of Gen 2.24 is: vehayu levasar 'echad: "They shall be one flesh" or more idiomatically: "they will become one flesh." The Hebrew as you have it above is correct.
posted by felix betachat at 9:57 AM on February 26, 2007

I thought "le" in Hebrew means "to" in English, not "the." As in "l'chaim," which means "to life."
posted by amro at 10:06 AM on February 26, 2007

Sorry, that should be "as jedicus has it above." I can give you a better grammatical explanation, but I don't think you need it. Just don't tattoo yourself with לבשר אחד since that includes the preposition which is part of the verbal phrase.

If you want your tattoo artist to work from an image instead of a printout, you might go to an academic library and find yourself a copy of the facsimile edition of the Leningrad Codex (the earliest complete manuscript of the Hebrew Bible we have) and copy the particular section of the text you want reproduced. Since this is a handwritten rather than a printed manuscript, the resulting image will look a lot more compelling than a simple copying of a printed font.

I think I there's a copy in the library where I'm working. Let me know if you'd like a jpeg of the image. Email is in my profile.
posted by felix betachat at 10:08 AM on February 26, 2007

I thought "le" in Hebrew means "to" in English, not "the." As in "l'chaim," which means "to life."

Ah yes, that's what I get for mentioning French. I can't keep more than one language in my head at any given time. "Le" does mean "to, towards," while "ha" is the appropriate prefix for "the."
posted by Partial Law at 10:25 AM on February 26, 2007

I'd keep in mind that tattoos are forbidden within the Jewish faith, so some Jews might look at your tattoos and think it was a bit odd.

Or even be offended, depending on their degree of orthodoxy.

That being said, if I were to get a Hebrew tattoo, I'd take off the diacriticals.

Me too. They're ugly (in my opinion) and they're only there as a guide to the correct reading of vowels; they're not an intrinsic part of the word, and "real" Hebrew is written without them. (It's sort of like 'writ-ing 'Eng-lish in the style of 'dic-tion-a-ry 'en-tries.)
posted by languagehat at 10:57 AM on February 26, 2007

I'd keep in mind that tattoos are forbidden within the Jewish faith, so some Jews might look at your tattoos and think it was a bit odd.

I'd Nth this. It may be something to seriously consider. While being very reform (to the point of being nearly agnostic) myself, some of my Jewish freinds find this a real offense. For me it settles more in the minor peeve/pet peeve category.

Might I suggest the same passage in the Aramaic alphabet, based on the Phoenician script?

BUT as a lover of pretty things, hebrew is pretty and the sentament of the tattoos is lovely, so it’s a neat idea from that standpoint.
posted by French Fry at 11:22 AM on February 26, 2007 [1 favorite]

Agreed with the "leave off the vowels" sentiment already stated above. The dots are for children's books / losers (like me -- I have trouble reading more than a few words without them).

Your hebrew is correct. I would either do "basar echad" or the entire "vehayu levasar echad" which I like better. Basar is the word for meat, too, so it's like "one meat" without the phrase.

One last tip, that I see felix betachat already recommends, is to see if you can't find a photo of the "real" text. The font, for lack of a better word, used in the Torah is, in a word, sublime. Amazing. It's sometimes known as fire-text. This could be found in almost any synagogue as well -- you need a talmud.

Mazel tov on your tattoo. Forget people who say it's not kosher for a Jew to have a tattoo. It's not, but it's not that big of a deal. I mean, you shave your face right? Same passage.
posted by zpousman at 11:31 AM on February 26, 2007

Basar also means 'meat', as in בשר כשר (basar kasher) kosher meat--a familiar sign in butcher shops.
posted by hexatron at 11:34 AM on February 26, 2007

Jews don't get tattoos mostly as a result of the Holocaust. It's true that Jews don't like to deface the body (no shaving, no cutting, no branding, etc.) and that one should go into the ground as one is born. But hey, to me, there's a lot worse transgressions of the 613 commandments.

Note: I am not an observant Jew. I'm pretty radical in my allowances for interpretation of commandments.
posted by zpousman at 11:34 AM on February 26, 2007

It may be in poor taste, but it certainly transgresses no halakhah that I know of. The law is quite specific about the care to be taken in relation to the printing of the divine name, but says nothing in particular about the Hebrew alphabet (French Fry, fyi, the alphabet we popularly call "Hebrew" is, in fact, the Aramaic alphabet).

That said, ultra-orthodox Jews would probably be unhappy to see Hebrew tattooed on flesh, even if it is goyische. And it's possible that even more liberal Jews would take offense. I was under the impression, though, that AskMe was for answering specific questions, not passing value judgments.

Finally, it's a bit strange to see MetaFilter's resident descriptivist taking an aesthetic stance toward the vocalic inscription of the Hebrew text of the Bible, something that was standard orthographic practice from the seventh century CE onward. "Real Hebrew"? Indeed, as opposed to what?
posted by felix betachat at 11:34 AM on February 26, 2007

Mazel tov on your tattoo. Forget people who say it's not kosher for a Jew to have a tattoo. It's not, but it's not that big of a deal. I mean, you shave your face right? Same passage.

Fair enough. I was simply speaking to the possibility of offense not weather or not that offense was hypocritical or not. My apologies.

French Fry, fyi, the alphabet we popularly call "Hebrew" is, in fact, the Aramaic alphabet

I'm aware I was simply pointing out that the different apeance of early Aramaic would be distinct from modern hebrew.

Also as Jews generally don’t get tattooed I’d suggest really going out of your way to find a tattoo artist who has actually written Hebrew before. I knew a guy with a big Hebrew tattoo on his neck (a born again Christian) whos tattoo artist had messed up his calligraphy and the Tat was complete gibberish.
posted by French Fry at 11:41 AM on February 26, 2007

apeance

appearance even.
posted by French Fry at 11:45 AM on February 26, 2007

Here's a little Hadrasch about the writing in the Torah and the writing on the tablets that Moses got. I'm sorry that I didn't have the right words handy, but I was hoping that the OP would get the ashuris script that's actually written in the Torah, and not the simpler Hebrew shown above. Just sayin' that's my preference. And from your comment it seems like you agree.

On a second reading of your comment: I see only now that you're referring to our friend the languagehat and not to me as being a descriptivist. Shit, I was all scared.
posted by zpousman at 11:49 AM on February 26, 2007

I am not sure if most people come back to read after they have left a post, however, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that has commented here. It is truly amazing to me that people can be so kind and take the time out of their day to help a complete stranger.

One of my best friends is Jewish and I asked him if I would offend him in anyway with this tattoo. He said no and we will commit to this work.

I want to give special notice to Felix Betachat who sent me an image of the original text…thank you so very much!!!
posted by birdlips at 12:10 PM on February 26, 2007

Here's another thread that's loosely related to the side-discussion about Jews and Tattoos (sorry).

disclaimer-that's my thread.
posted by neilkod at 1:39 PM on February 26, 2007

Finally, it's a bit strange to see MetaFilter's resident descriptivist taking an aesthetic stance toward the vocalic inscription of the Hebrew text of the Bible

Huh? Even descriptivists have aesthetic feelings. As I've said many times, I hate certain linguistic developments in English, like the use of "may have" for "might have." I just don't confuse my aesthetic feelings for facts about language. Did you miss the part where I said "They're ugly (in my opinion)"?

"Real Hebrew"? Indeed, as opposed to what?

As opposed to Hebrew with vocalic marks, duh. Have you ever seen a Hebrew book or newspaper?
posted by languagehat at 2:12 PM on February 26, 2007

Which reminds me: anyone who wants to learn Hebrew should buy a text that uses no vowel marks. If you learn it that way from the beginning, it's a piece of cake, and when you encounter a pointed text you can use it to decipher difficult words or simply ignore the points. If you learn it with pointed text, it's hell to learn to read "real" Hebrew.
posted by languagehat at 2:14 PM on February 26, 2007

Children's textbooks in Israel use nekudot (vowel points). As do newspapers for new immigrants. As does nearly all Hebrew poetry, classical and modern. As do liturgical and many sacred texts. And it is customary to employ nekudot any time there is a potential for ambiguity in prose in Modern Hebrew.

I'll put it this way: to a competent speaker of Hebrew, use of vowel pointing is most often unnecessary, as the context provides all necessary information for decoding the text. But in certain cases of literary ambiguity, and where an author wants to make evident the phonic character of a text, use of nekudot is de rigeur.

So it's simply wrong to say that "real" Hebrew doesn't use vowel points. Rather, such points are not necessary and are thus omitted for reasons of orthographic efficiency in the course of composing texts. But they necessarily reappear any time an author feels a need for them.
posted by felix betachat at 3:35 PM on February 26, 2007

Additionally, lexical entries in dictionaries are also always pointed.
posted by felix betachat at 3:48 PM on February 26, 2007

Yeah, much like the 'dic-tion-ar-y style in English (or accent marks in Russian, which are also used in dictionaries, children's and learners' texts, and occasionally for clarity). If you don't like my use of "real," fine, use whatever terminology appeals to you. The fact is that if you ask an Israeli to write the phrase, he or she is not going to use nekudot. If you think Hebrew with nekudot looks just as good as without, that's fine too. It takes all kinds.
posted by languagehat at 5:07 PM on February 26, 2007

as mentioned above, 'basar' translates most commonly to 'meat'. bear that in mind for when the 'basar' tattoo-ee is traveling solo. whether it's you or your wife.

also, i have always understood the commandment against tattooing as one like any of the others. it's having been sociologically reinforced by the Holocaust is certainly possible - but i doubt the passerby walking down the street will stop to consider the source of their offense. not judging, just saying.
posted by prophetsearcher at 5:40 PM on February 26, 2007