He farts and he cusses and stinks up the busses

February 8, 2007 10:36 AM

Help me defend myself against an angry bus driver!

I use a San Diego youth bus pass which clearly states it's for use by people ages 6-18, however a local bus driver insists you can't use it once you turn 18, because you are an adult and not a youth. In my last encounter I simply took the next bus, but I can't do that every time. An online print-out that clarified it would be nice, but I don't know where to find them. He seems like an angry kind of guy, whereas I'm shy and avoid confrontation. How do I convince him without getting him more upset?

posted by Citizen Premier to travel & transportation (27 comments total)

Well, have you turned 18?
posted by SpecialK at 10:42 AM on February 8, 2007

Note his name or route and bus number and call the bus company to get clarification or to let them know that they have a driver who doesn't know their policies.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 10:42 AM on February 8, 2007

What's he wrong about?
posted by sageleaf at 10:45 AM on February 8, 2007

Well, this looks like this is a grammatical question. Wikipedia describes the en dash to mean "to," not "through". Not that I agree.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:52 AM on February 8, 2007

If you are under 18, why not get a photo ID that clearly shows your date of birth and present that along with the bus pass.
posted by 543DoublePlay at 10:54 AM on February 8, 2007

Have you contacted the transit authority and asked for clarification on the policy? They should either be able to tell you that you're incorrect, or if you can give them a date, bus and route number, contact the driver and tell him he's incorrect.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:54 AM on February 8, 2007

$30.00-For ages 6 through 18. Good for all Bus routes and the Trolley. (School or transit youth identification is required.)

It says through 18 here, so according to their policy your pass is valid until you turn 19.

Call San Diego Transit: [phone]
Complaints: In order to address your complaint as thoroughly as possible, please supply as many specifics as you can, including the Bus and/or route number, the Trolley line and car number, the day and time the event occurred, the location nearest where the event took place, and which stop the Bus or Trolley was heading toward when the event happened.
posted by Floydd at 10:57 AM on February 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

"Youth Monthly Pass:
$30.00-For ages 6 through 18. Good for all Bus routes and the Trolley. (School or transit youth identification is required.)"

From the fares section.
posted by klangklangston at 11:00 AM on February 8, 2007

You're right, Citizen.
According to SANDAG, which apparently is the San Diego transit authority, you're still a youth.

2.33 Youth: Any person 6-18 years of age (inclusive).

Find it here.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:01 AM on February 8, 2007

Dammit, Floydd.
posted by klangklangston at 11:01 AM on February 8, 2007

I'm stunned that XX–YY would be interpreted as other than implicitly inclusive rather than exclusive. The "to" interpratation strikes me as bizarre.

As these strongly-held disagreements about the intended meaning of the date range seem to be the heart of the issue, you should absolutely contact the transit folks and get a clearly documented answer. If the answer is in your favor, and the bus driver in question directly refuses to acknowledge that, then you report them to transit; before that, presume misunderstanding.
posted by cortex at 11:14 AM on February 8, 2007

If the answer is in your favor, and the bus driver in question directly refuses to acknowledge that, then you report them to transit; before that, presume misunderstanding.

Bus drivers should not be misunderstanding things like this. And passengers shouldn't have to carry around documentation of transit authority policy. Contacting the transit department will allow them to train him properly.
posted by grouse at 11:35 AM on February 8, 2007

This is insane. X-Y is prett well universally understood as inclusive. Why are transit workers so often douchebags to students?

And, as has been made clear here, Google is your friend.
posted by Dasein at 11:45 AM on February 8, 2007

(Further thought on the general X–Y vs. the specific case of 6–18: I'm wondering if it's the specific milestone of 18 that muddies the waters of otherwise expected inclusivity.

When you turn 18, bam: selective service, smoking, sexual consent in many (most?) states, etc. So the notion of a "youth pass" may conflict interpretively with the idea of age 18 as threshold of adulthood—the same person who might interpret "ages 11–14" as inclusive could be prompted to interpret "ages 6–18" as exclusive on the upper bounds because of that cultural interference.)
posted by cortex at 11:58 AM on February 8, 2007

It's not quite as easy as that cortex, yeah SS and smoking is 18, age of consent is 18 in a distinct minority of states (>20), driver's lisc is >18, drinking is 21. So, while people may think of 18 as adult, in reality, and legalistically becoming an adult ranges over about 1/2 a decade.
posted by edgeways at 12:13 PM on February 8, 2007

Oh, absolutely. I just think that, in the US at least, 18 is the most generally emblamatic age-of-adulthood. I'm wondering if that alone, details aside, is enough to muddy the waters for a lot of folks.
posted by cortex at 12:30 PM on February 8, 2007

Print it and show it to him, suggest that he ask his supervisor if he's unconvinced. Be polite; you're in the right, but if you complain and he keeps his route, he may retaliate by not stopping for you. He sounds like a jerk, sympathies.
posted by lw at 3:22 PM on February 8, 2007

While everyone agrees that 6-18 would include an 18 year old(especially since the wording in the policy says "inclusive"), why is the x-y for an age treated differently that x-y for time. If attended an event that was to take place 1-5, I would assume it would end at 5. Maybe that is where the driver is getting mixed up?
posted by cj at 4:29 PM on February 8, 2007

Interesting point. 1–5 is shorthand for 1:00 to 5:00, or more explicitly "five o'clock and not a moment after"; I think we have a clear sense of that shortcut with respect to hours of the day. Yet that doesn't translate to years of life, but we use the same typography for both.
posted by cortex at 4:35 PM on February 8, 2007

Yeah, it's not a universal time thing. If someone said an event was happening from 1 March-3 March, I would expect that would include all three days, not just 1 March and 2 March.
posted by grouse at 5:19 PM on February 8, 2007

I'll be in the office tomorrow from 2 - 3pm. Will I be there when you show up at quarter to 4?
posted by dirtdirt at 7:36 PM on February 8, 2007

I just think that, in the US at least, 18 is the most generally emblamatic age-of-adulthood. I'm wondering if that alone, details aside, is enough to muddy the waters for a lot of folks.

Most 18 yr olds don't gain independence EXACTLY when they turn 18. An 18 year old can still be a high school student. If someone turns 18 in january of their Senior year, they are still as much a "youth" (expense to parents, etc.) as they were in December, at their youthful age of 17.

If the bus drivers are going to be so persnikety, the transit authority should just make it a student pass, or k-12 student pass (or just fire the picky bus driver).
posted by necessitas at 7:41 PM on February 8, 2007

dirtdirt - good point, but the meaning of '-' varies by context/intent. I work Mon-Fri. Does that mean I won't be in the office on Friday? Does K-12 education stop at the end of 11th Grade?
posted by daveleck at 5:54 AM on February 9, 2007

dirtdirt: "I'll be in the office tomorrow from 2 - 3pm. Will I be there when you show up at quarter to 4?"

That has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Inclusively, you'll be there at 2:00 pm and leave at 3:00 pm; exclusively, you'll be there at 2:00 pm and leave at 2:59 pm. I have a feeling it's the inclusive -- "I'll be in the office tomorrow from 2-3 pm" means including 2:00 pm and 3:00 pm-- but either way one isn't talking about the hours.

If people were in the habit of saying "The hours I'll be at work tomorrow are 2-3" then your point might hold. Unfortunately, that's not how we talk.
posted by koeselitz at 10:35 AM on February 9, 2007

why is the x-y for an age treated differently that x-y for time. If attended an event that was to take place 1-5, I would assume it would end at 5.

I don't think x-y for age is treated differently. I think the confusion is neglecting to realize that in terms of hours, each 60 second span in an hour is treated differently.

If an event was to take place from 1-5, the ending time refers to the span of seconds between 5:00:00 and 5:00:59. For that entire span of time, it is still, for all intents and purposes, 5:00.

In terms of age or days or months, the entire grouping (age year, day of the week, etc.) is treated as one unit. Because it is not common for people (after a certain age) to count their age in years + months, someone is 18 on the day they turn 18, and they are 18 on the day before they turn 18. Half a year after they turn 18, "18 and 6 months" is still considered 18. However, half an hour after 5:00, it is 5:30, which is treated as its own time designation.
posted by necessitas at 1:46 PM on February 9, 2007

they are 18 on the day before they turn 18

Typo, I'm sure: the day before they turn 19, rather.
posted by cortex at 1:52 PM on February 9, 2007

oops! yes, I meant 19. Damn typos!
posted by necessitas at 2:10 PM on February 9, 2007