Getting a house permitted

February 5, 2007 7:08 AM

What is involved in getting a house proper permits?

There is a rural house for sale which was built a number of years ago but is non-permitted. The buyers of the house are to "conduct due diligence" in regards to the dwelling and permits. If someone wanted to purchase this house, what would be required of the new owner? What permits would be needed and how would these permits be acquired? Would digging up septic tank pipes and tearing open walls to view electrical work be required? Do permit offices have systems setup for dealing with houses already built but not permitted?

Information does not need to be specific, just trying to get an overall idea of what steps would and should be taken.

posted by chrisroberts to home & garden (17 comments total)

That depends entirely on where the house is located.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:30 AM on February 5, 2007

Usually some sort of inspection would be done and anything that's not up to code would have to be fixed.

The actual process, of course, varies wildly by municipality.
posted by bshort at 7:44 AM on February 5, 2007

If your house is outside of city limits, there is a good chance the permit requirements will be much less than if your house was within city limits. In my area, unincorporated parts of the county do not have any rules or regulations when it comes to permits. Call the permit office for the nearest city and find out where their jurisdiction ends.
posted by lockle at 7:47 AM on February 5, 2007

I'm assuming that by "rural" you mean that it is in an unincorporated area. I would contact the county government office, because they are most likely responsible for unincorporated areas, and ask for their planning department. If they don't issue permits directly for that particular area, they will definitely be able to tell you who does.
posted by desjardins at 7:47 AM on February 5, 2007

lockle is correct that there may not be any (or minimal) rules or regulations in an unincorporated area.
posted by desjardins at 7:48 AM on February 5, 2007

The only advice here is to go down to your local Planning and Zoning office (or whatever it may be called in your locality). They are nicer than you might think. They are used to dealing with surly, difficult people who only want avoid dealing with their office at all costs. If you go in with a friendly, non-confrontational attitude, I bet they will be happy to walk you through the process. Be prepared for some bad news though, financially -- sometimes these processes can get expensive. Just keep in mind that these costs are not the fault of the people at the P&Z office, they are just doing their jobs.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:51 AM on February 5, 2007

Calling the town/city hall should be your first step. A lot of places make this information available online also.
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:52 AM on February 5, 2007

Permitting new houses is my full time job. This sounds like a nightmare, though it totally depends on where the house is located. First step is to contact the county's building department. There's a very good chance this will be a very big pain, if it's even possible. Permits are evaluated to match local codes, and there's a good chance you will have to expose wires, plumbing, etc.

Please post a follow-up-- I'm terribly interested!
posted by orangemiles at 7:54 AM on February 5, 2007

Based on the location in your profile, this site might be of some help.
posted by TedW at 8:17 AM on February 5, 2007

If your house is outside of city limits, there is a good chance the permit requirements will be much less than if your house was within city limits. In my area, unincorporated parts of the county do not have any rules or regulations when it comes to permits.

This may be true in your area, but in my area it's unmitigated bullshit. Don't call the *city* permit office if you're not in whatever city; call the county. My county has just as stringent a permit approval process as any individual incorporated city within it, and checks for compliance with their own zoning regulations (which vary from area to area), as well as the building code (statewide). You will eventually have to meet both sets of requirements, although you might be able to get some leniency on stuff that would require tearing walls open. If you're within a setback or something though, the structure will probably have to come down.

If you were someplace earthquake-free, you might have a better chance at getting away with things, but being on the west coast probably doesn't play into your favor here.

The only advice here is to go down to your local Planning and Zoning office (or whatever it may be called in your locality). They are nicer than you might think. They are used to dealing with surly, difficult people who only want avoid dealing with their office at all costs. If you go in with a friendly, non-confrontational attitude, I bet they will be happy to walk you through the process. Be prepared for some bad news though, financially -- sometimes these processes can get expensive. Just keep in mind that these costs are not the fault of the people at the P&Z office, they are just doing their jobs.

This is excellent advice. In my experience, the people at the building department have been more than happy to help me out with whatever I needed, although they do tend to treat you a little better if you already know the system. But don't be a dick.
posted by LionIndex at 10:19 AM on February 5, 2007

although they do tend to treat you a little better if you already know the system.

In my experience, this is because if you know the system, then they know you aren't going to turn into a dick as soon as they mention the $50 application fee (or they know you personally from previous interactions).
posted by Rock Steady at 10:49 AM on February 5, 2007

Exactly. $50 is cheap!
posted by LionIndex at 11:06 AM on February 5, 2007

So, I guess reading through things I am a bit confused. I have a call into the city building office (which the county refers you to) and am waiting for that call back. The permits are for building/wiring/plumbing the house. Now that the house is already built, granted without proper permits, is it a permit that I am after, or just an inspection and fixing things not up to code? Also, $50 is cheap and I'm just looking to see if this is more headache than it's worth. I don't own the place so I don't have a big reason to be a dick about what needs to be done. Just trying to get a good idea of all the things that have to be done.
posted by chrisroberts at 11:23 AM on February 5, 2007

It depends on whether the house is grandfathered in -- I can't tell whether yours is or not from "was built a number of years ago but is non-permitted."

If it was acceptable when it was built, but isn't anymore, they almost certainly have a procedure in place to deal with it (that policy is generally along the lines of "if you're going near something, fix it, or if something's major, fix it, but if not, leave it for now").

However, if it violated code when it was built, and the P&Z board didn't know about it at the time, and you want to get it okayed now, that's when you've got a big problem.
posted by booksandlibretti at 12:06 PM on February 5, 2007

I think the point about not being a dick to the people at the building department came up because it's very likely that these people will be telling you some news that may be hard to hear. For instance, I was saying $50 is cheap because just the application fee is $80 for where I am--that's the fee *just* to be able to apply for a permit. Permit fees would be much, much higher. It also might turn out that your structure needs to be substantially modified or torn down if it is too far out of compliance with regulations. Also, depending on your experience with the building department, they might use a lot of technical lingo that you're not familiar with, which would be frustrating for you because you don't understand what's being asked of you, but also frustrating for them because they've got 20 other people on hold calling with questions (they're generally supposed to meet a quota of phone calls), and you're taking up extra time by asking about simplistic stuff.

I have a call into the city building office (which the county refers you to) and am waiting for that call back. The permits are for building/wiring/plumbing the house. Now that the house is already built, granted without proper permits, is it a permit that I am after, or just an inspection and fixing things not up to code?

I'm a bit confused myself--was a permit application ever filed for the structure? Does the city/county know anything about the structure at all, or will talking to you be the first time they ever hear about it?

Basically what you're trying to do is get a permit for an existing structure. Jurisdictions vary, but usually a "building permit" covers all the bases, from structural framing to electrical, plumbing, heating/cooling, zoning, planning and water supply issues. You're going to have to demonstrate to the building department's satisfaction that the structure meets all of their requirements. So, when the building deparment calls back, you'll just be asking for a step-by-step walkthrough of how to obtain permits for existing unpermitted structures. They may have publications on this that they can either fax to you, or that you can view online. Eventually, you'll probably have to produce drawings of the structure that show everything the building department wants to see--for this, I would recommend hiring a professional or working with someone else who is familiar with the permitting process in your jurisdiction. Architects are useful for this, but there are people who run permits for a living that you could also hire. Ask the building department what drawings you'll need to provide, and what information needs to go on them. If you know who actually built the structure, you'll want to get their input on the drawings, but they may not want to let the building department know they were involved, because building an unpermitted structure would be pretty bad for a licesnsed contractor. Most likely, you'll produce the drawings and submit them to the building department, where they'll be reviewed and approved or returned to you with comments on additional information they want to see or problems they want resolved. After clearing all their comments, you'll most likely get a home inspection, where they'll check to make sure that what you've shown on the drawings matches what's on site. You will obviously want to be sure that they match.

Some things, like electrical, plumbing and insulation requirements may require that you remove the drywall from the interior walls, but that will really be up to the building department. If the structure looks like it was professionally built, they may cut you some slack on opening up the walls. If your jurisdiction has height, setback, or building area regulations, the structure will need to meet those or face being torn down.

The downside of not permitting the structure depends on how stringent your area is about enforcement. It may be more difficult to sell the property with unpermitted structures, or a building official may notice that you don't have a permit and bust you anyways (which isn't very likely if the structure is already built). It may also be difficult to obtain insurance for the home. You basically have illegitimate, bastard structure, and no one will want to take it seriously until its been legitmized. Unless people in your area don't care about that kind of thing. YMMV.
posted by LionIndex at 12:36 PM on February 5, 2007

If you buy the place, you will need a permit for any new work. You need to know which of the existing conditions must be addressed, and what repairs/changes are recommended but not required. Ask if, in your area, there's a category such as "nonconforming (or outdated) but acceptable." That means that, though the condition doesn't meet the current codes for new work, it's not a hazard and can remain as it is. If the inspectors normally excuse safe but nonconforming work that was done in the past, then you don't need to bring the place "up to code."
posted by wryly at 12:54 PM on February 5, 2007

Just wanted to say thanks to all those that replied. You have helped me a lot and given me a good starting point.
posted by chrisroberts at 5:12 PM on February 5, 2007