Is this a mental condition -- or am I just a world-class procrastinator?

January 27, 2007 3:38 PM

Within the last few years, I've increasingly had to fight off my own tendency to break things down into nearly infinitesimal parts in order to get anything done. For example: I'll decide to have friends over for dinner. I'll invite them. I'll begin to peruse cookbooks, see recipes I like -- how will the side dish go with the entree? Is there a better place in town to get the chicken as opposed to the asparagus? And the music -- it would be nice to have a good jazz soundtrack going -- Sketches of Spain -- no, no! -- Johnny Mandel's score for "The Sandpiper"! Which I have on vinyl. Somewhere... the next thing you know, I've been out in the garage for 45 minutes, trying to dig up my copy.

And organizing a drawer? Forget it. I find myself buying small plastic cases for even smaller items like paper clips and gathering plastic cord ties together in Ziploc bags. The simplest task because an enormous time suck.

I ask if this may be an actual mental condition because I see myself doing it, yet that doesn't altogether stop me from doing it -- the awareness helps me reign myself in, but I usually find myself right back at the same point sometime later. I don't obsess on any particular items -- I just repeat the same loose pattern of dividing, then sub-dividing, then sub-dividing what's already been sub-divided, until I'm either exhausted or give up or somehow get it together at the last minute.

Bizarre twist: I oversee almost $2MM in marketing budgets in my job and very rarely deliver anything late -- so telling me to pick up a good project management book isn't going to be my answer. Professionally, I seem to possess the ability to know when to cut bait. Am I rebelling against the strict and stressful deadlines in my career by totally pissing time away in my personal life? It feels more compulsory than that, but maybe that's what I need to think.

Theories?

posted by mrkinla to health & fitness (27 comments total)

I do this, but I consider it a positive thing. If I try to tackle a huge project, I get frustrated by the enormity and put off actually tackling it. If I divide and subdivide into tiny tasks, I wind up making significant progress without feeling like I've had to really "do" anything.

(A favorite running joke with my best friend is that ordering pizza requires a twenty-step process, but in the end, we both felt as if all we did was laze around on the couch and then suddenly, bam! we had pizza!)
posted by desuetude at 4:41 PM on January 27, 2007

I'm no expert, but when I find myself dividing like that (usually because I don't want to start something until I have the optimal way to do it, which is not the same as what you describe, but not too dissimilar), I:

- remind myself how all the cool stuff I've done has come from me just forgetting this detail-obsession and just going ahead with it to make some progress. "Git 'er done" :)

- remind myself that I don't have time to cover everything, so I am making a big mistake if I try.

- remind myself that a perfect job left unfinished is generally considerably inferior to a rush job that gets finished.

- remind myself that I _hate_ this scattering habit, and what it does if I follow it, and I don't want to be doing this.

- remind myself that making a serious start on the task, even if the start is flawed, is normally enough to break out of it - once I'm get some momemtum up, it's harder to veer off into tangents.

- remind myselt that any imperfection I make I am capible of fixing, so there is no point dividing to get optimal results - just get some results and THEN worry about whether I want to improve anything.

- keep your eye on the ball.

All of that only takes a couple of seconds, and then I'll put aside the stuff I'm tempted to do in favour of stuff that directly puts a dent in the problem.

I guess part of the trick is catching yourself early when you're doing it. That's probably just practice and familiarity.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:54 PM on January 27, 2007

I find myself in the same place on a regular basis. While the original act of breaking down the task isn't typically a problem, the increasingly-derivative nature of the activities is often referred to as Shaving the Yak.
When I get going on a project that has yak-shaving potential, [which usually winds up being personal, not business-related] I tend to make a reminder of some type, like a simple sign that asks, "What's for dinner?"
While I like to think this behaviour is a sign of creative intelligence, Mrs. rubberfish seems to think it's just a sign that I'm a geek.
posted by rubberfish at 5:15 PM on January 27, 2007

OCD?
posted by matteo at 6:38 PM on January 27, 2007

If I have this sort of task at hand, I use the large whiteboard I put in the kitchen. I break the tasks required down into microtasks and wipe them out as I go. Cleaning the kitchen might turn into 10 different small tasks, and I try not to deviate from those tasks.

I definitely do this sort of scatterbrained thing where I start off cleaning the kitchen and somehow end up with a cordless drill fixing a door in the bedroom instead or organising my books, the only way to beat it is try and focus on one task at a time, force yourself to complete each task. Not always easy.
posted by tomble at 6:40 PM on January 27, 2007

So what you're telling me is, you get to spend your evenings following your nose, puttering around the house, and doing whatever strikes your fancy at the moment? Are you sure that's a problem?

No snark intended: it really sounds like a great way to unwind — playful, engaging, open-ended, sometimes productive, sometimes pointless. Just enjoy it.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:57 PM on January 27, 2007

I think you have contradictory desires: you want to analyze the problem minutely, and you want to get things done to your satisfaction. You can't fully do both without setting some limits.

The analyzing, is it anxiety-driven? What happens if you don't do it -- either becauuse you don't have time, or because you just make up your mind not to? Have you ever "screwed up" a project or task because you put your energy into less-important aspects? (Only your definition of "screw up" matters here.) I'm asking in case your answers might lead you to some kind of insight.

Would this help: Since it's natural and often enjoyable for you to mentally chart the various categories and sub-categories involved in, say, planning a dinner party, suppose you allotted an amount of time to do just that. You could even do it in writing. At the end of your twenty minutes (or whatever), rank the products of your meanderings by priority, consider how much time you have before the guests arrive, and get to work on the things you've decided to act on. Telling yourself, "I need to stop this" is no good. You need to either substitute a different way of going about things, or indulge your analytical inclinations to whatever point you decide (ahead of time) is acceptable.

I think it would be great if therapists would ask clients, "When you entertain, how do you go about it?" Everyone's best, worst, and most neurotic traits seem come out when they feed people in their home.
posted by wryly at 7:14 PM on January 27, 2007

It sounds like the problem isn't the breaking-down -- that's normal -- but the prioritizing of the results, provided that I read you correctly and you end up spending hours looking for an LP where you should be spending that time grocery shopping or cooking dinner.

For starters, you could just try to make the broken-down steps' priority and timing explicit: tell yourself you must complete the grocery trip before you look for the album, but then you can't start preparing dinner until 4 pm or it'll be done too fast, so that leaves the time between finishing grocery shopping and 4 pm for looking for the album. For example.
posted by mendel at 7:20 PM on January 27, 2007

I do this all the time.

I'm write bank software during the day, and I've found that this can be an extremely useful trait under certain circumstances. I wouldn't be as good as I am unless I had the ability to break a project down into its fundamental components.

The problem is, there's a very fine line between minimizing potential future problems and maximizing current energy expenditure. In a nutshell, you want to be as thorough as possible because, through experience, you've come to realize that poor planning or not "thinking it through" can lead to costly errors or setbacks in the future. Really, what you're doing is preemptively avoiding future work by getting it right the first time, which is admirable.

The problem is that you must always try and remember the bottom line: a task needs completing. If you spend all your time thinking up how to do it right but never complete it, you've already got it wrong. It's a daily struggle, I'm afraid, to find a balance. I don't believe there is a simple quick-fix; you just have to schedule intermittent re-evaluations of your progress to keep the beast in check or you'll never get anything done.

Case in point: my car makes a clicking noise. It's annoying. I know where it's coming from (the lifters), but in order to replace the lifters, I have to remove the head, which is extremely time-consuming. Now, once I go through all the trouble of getting the head off the block, I really might as well replace the timing belt, because it's about 10k miles overdue, and I don't want to have to take the head off again any time soon. Fine. But you know, if I replace the timing belt, I should replace the water pump as well, because they tend to have similar life expectancies, and again, I've already gone through all the trouble of taking the head off and now also removing the timing belt.

Soon one job becomes three, becomes five, becomes eight, etc... and a somewhat difficult task has now spiraled out of proportion and the costs to both my wallet and my time mean I can't get around to it for a while.

Net result: my car is still noisy.

I think a lot of times people look at "fools and horses rushing in" and think to themselves, "Well I'm no fool; I'm going to plan and do it right." If you have procrastination in your blood, however, you're just substituting doing it wrong with not doing it at all.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:33 PM on January 27, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

My theory: working in marketing is bad for people's mental health, because it involves living in a constant state of denial of the fundamentally broken nature of one's chosen profession.

But my background is in engineering, so I'm, you know, The Enemy. Don't listen to a word I say.
posted by flabdablet at 7:57 PM on January 27, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

I often get in a similar state when I'm packing for a trip, even as short as an overnight sometimes, if there are decisions to be made about what to take. Sometimes I get downright stressed, almost panicky when packing.

I find that I'm much better if I make a list first, then start the actual gathering and packing of stuff. Otherwise I get some clothes out, download the podcast I want to listen to on the plane, etc., etc.

Not sure what the cause of this behavior is, though.
posted by altcountryman at 8:05 PM on January 27, 2007

Are you sure that's a problem?

I know! My first thought on reading this post was: I enjoy this kind of thing.

If it's not causing you discomfort, unhappiness, or dysfunction, then I wouldn't say you have much of a disorder. I obssess over parties, travel, dinners, what to wear, and so on -- but for me, this is part of the wonderful anticipatory process of planning something I'm looking forward to, or maximizing the smoothness and enjoyment of daily life.

Your drawer thing had me laughing - I often get great satisfaction from finding just the right container, or system, or most optimal relative positioning of counter appliances like coffee grinder, coffeemaker, and toaster...etc.

I, too, do a lot of organizing and project-managing in my career. This behavior may either be a carryover of skills learned on the job, or perhaps we're suited to that sort of job because our minds already do this breaking-down process well. Doesn't matter, IMO. It's just a way of approaching something, and for me, it's fun.

I wouldn't worry about this unless it's affecting your career, relationships, or comfort with yourself.
posted by Miko at 8:21 PM on January 27, 2007

Am I rebelling against the strict and stressful deadlines in my career by totally pissing time away in my personal life?

I'd guess so. I do the same thing whenever I'm decompressing from a period of intense concentration.

I've always figured going on autopilot was my brain's way of taking some time out to rest.
posted by tkolar at 8:24 PM on January 27, 2007

Oh man. I can shave the yak for years with some projects. I just never knew what it was called.

So what you're telling me is, you get to spend your evenings following your nose, puttering around the house, and doing whatever strikes your fancy at the moment? Are you sure that's a problem?

Substitute "Saturday afternoons" for "evenings" and that pretty well describes my favored mode of operation. I agree with nebulawindphone and Miko that it is a pleasant way of getting things done. I love puttering. There are days when it might not look like I've accomplished anything, but after a few of those days I'll have laid the groundwork (mental, as much as organizational) for getting something big done, like cleaning out and organizing a desperately cluttered closet.

When it comes to a time-constrained goal, such as throwing a dinner party or packing for a trip, I have to exercise more self-discipline in the manner suggested by mendel. But sometimes I do a little trade-off and decide that yeah, my living room won't be as thoroughly neatened up as I might like it to be for the dinner party, but that is an OK trade for the satisfaction I will get out of getting my mini-quiche ingredients and technique just right, or killing half an afternoon shopping at three different stores to find the serving spoon that exactly suits a need. Like mrkinla, I think it's not that I can't manage a project with an eye on the big picture. Sometimes the little bitty pixels within the picture are just far more engrossing.

But finally, to get around to answering the question: I think I've heard this kind of thinking described as an "obsessive" pattern. But IANA . . . whatever the authority would be in this area.
posted by Orinda at 8:54 PM on January 27, 2007

It depends on how much of your life it's interfering with, and how severely it's interfering. It does remind me a little of the first trait of Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder - the bit about "preoccupation with details [...] to the extent that the major point of the activity is lost". I only mention this because it's something I'm looking into - and judging by your tags, I'm guessing that I'm not the only one. I don't know if it would help to talk to somebody about it; the rush to pathologize every quirk in one's personality is always a concern. Again, it's up to you - if it's interfering with your life or others say it does, see someone about it; if it's not and you're still on the ball, then don't worry about it. It might also just be evidence of a superior ability to critically analyze a situation, too ;)

and flabdablet, engineers and marketing (and everyone else) all have a common enemy: the Project Manager. (just a joke...well..kinda...not really...)
posted by rmm at 9:55 PM on January 27, 2007

Wow! That totally describes me! I always thought it was some form of ADD (because that was easier than accepting the fact that I might be the worlds greatest procrastinator and/or too lazy to finish a project so I would subdivide and sub-subdivide). I complained to the doctor about ADD and tried med after med. Nothing helped. It is no wonder! I don't have ADD at all, it seems I am just a yak shaver.
posted by necessitas at 10:02 PM on January 27, 2007

Perhaps this behavior is what makes you good at your organized job, or is a side effect of it.

I categorize this behavior sort of akin to dreaming. Or at least the current philosophy on dreaming. It lets you organize your unconscious thoughts.

Whenever I have a big, non critical problem, I throw it in a drawer and forget about it for a few days. Then I go and screw off and "waste time". De-junk the junk drawer. Re-junk the junk drawer. Plan a sculpture from what's in the junk drawer. Wonder if right and left socks have a rivalry. Concoct an experiment to test sock rivalry. Do laundry. Etc...

In a day or two, or even a few hours later I come back and my brain knows exactly how to tackle this problem.

Just a thought.

And I hope you don't seriously think you have a mental condition. If you do, the technical name is "being human".
posted by Ookseer at 10:51 PM on January 27, 2007

This question made me think of the PushDownGoalStack article on the Portland Pattern Repository wiki:

Situation: You have a push-down stack for all your goals. When you hit an obstacle, you push "remove the obstacle" onto the stack. Then, when the obstacle is cleared, you pop the stack, and you are back at your original problem.

Problem: For some reason, the problems you push onto the stack keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger, dwarfing the original problem, each one dwarfing the one before it.
posted by Freaky at 2:46 AM on January 28, 2007

Kick procrastination's ass: run a dash. Spend no more than 5 minutes looking for music. Set a timer. When the timer rings, stop. Tried and proven to work for household chores.

43folders also has a followup post.
posted by stereo at 4:51 AM on January 28, 2007

Just to clarify, breaking down projects into smaller and smaller tasks can be a good thing but it's not an end unto itself. Ddoing it too much is, as you've found, a total time suck. There are three actual reasons why we break down projects: (1) to figure out where to start (2) to build a sense of momentum and progress (3) to estimate how long it's going to take.

But unless you're NASA or, god forbid, the US Army you usually have a good of bit of flexibility in #1 and #3. In a lot of situations the task approach won't or can't work. In these cases you can tackle the project in a different way by disregarding the start and end conditions. Instead you (1) pick a random place to start -- it doesn't matter what, just pick something and do it (2) define a clear short-term objective that may or may not be directly related to your final objective (3) disregard the strict project deadline. In other words instead of executing a proecess you run an experiment.

This is the core difference between the top-down, over-planning approach advocated by so many productivity whups who fetishize about "wasting" time (and have little idea about how human beings actually work) and the bottom up, experiementalist approach that real scientists and other creative types tend to actually use to produce real work.

The next time you find youself over analyzing a big project just stop and pick some component of it that will be fun and do it. Don't worry about whether you're doing it right or if it's the best use of your time. Just do it and get it over with and produce a result as quickly as possible. As far as your dinner party is concerned forget about the food and the music. Find some decent wine you've never had before. Stop by a few stores and taste as many wines as possible. After this you'll likely have some good wine and feel great and, as a pure plus, you'll be so buzzed that the rest of the project won't seem like such a big deal at all.
posted by nixerman at 9:29 AM on January 28, 2007

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder really sucks. It's not a cool disorder to have, and you probably don't have it.

People with OCD do things like wash their hands until they bleed, count things so much that they can't think about anything else but numbers, go back to check and make sure the oven's off so many times that they're late for events, turn doorknobs with their elbows to avoid exposure to germs.

It's not something that turns itself on on weekends and goes away when you need to work. It's there all the time, and it hinders your ability to live and work in society.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 10:09 AM on January 28, 2007

l. But sometimes I do a little trade-off and decide that yeah, my living room won't be as thoroughly neatened up as I might like it to be for the dinner party, but that is an OK trade...

Absolutely. What I find is that I usually get really into the detail planning and prep and concentrate fiercely on it right up until the first person arrives at the party, or I get onto the plane, or whatever. At that point, the detail focus fades and ceases to bother me. I've done all I can do, and the focus shifts to the fun of the moment. If I couldn't do that -- if I continued to fret about the wrinkles in the napkins or the too-unripe mangos in the salsa throughout the party, then I'd consider it a problem.

There are three actual reasons why we break down projects: (1) to figure out where to start (2) to build a sense of momentum and progress (3) to estimate how long it's going to take.

This is probably true from an organizational theory standpoint, but you leave out my favorite reason, which is that it's fun. For detail people, the breakdown is just plan fun.
posted by Miko at 11:32 AM on January 28, 2007

I have this too. Not an answer to your question, but just letting you know you're not alone.
posted by brevity at 1:07 PM on January 28, 2007

I do something similar, I call it Theoretical xyz. For example, this weekend I spent an extraordinary amount of time lying on my couch doing "theoretical unpacking" ie planning where to put stuff, deciding that I'll get up and measure the wall to see if the bookshelves will fit, and working out contigency plans if they don't. I also indulge in quite a lot of theoretical cleaning, theoretical travelling and theoretical knitting. It's a combination of perfectionism and procrastination and the desire to be efficient, and so long as I get the stuff done in the end, I don't really care. Theoretical life is entertaining and distracting.

I wouldn't worry unless it starts to effect your life or your self esteem. If it does, then try applying some artificial deadlines, or start putting priorities on the itty bitty steps. ie. food is important for a dinner party, so do that first.
posted by kjs4 at 5:32 PM on January 28, 2007

Always start out with a general list of priorities needed to be done. Sift out the chaff, choosing the right record is something that can wait until after the guests arrive. Then you can even ask for requests. After you have the list of priorities, then assign the tasks rough times and see if everything on the list will fit in the allotted time. If not then sift out more chaff.

Once you plan enough events like this, you may be able to forego the written planning and do it mentally but always do a planning process for any task. It should take at most 15 minutes but it is time well spent.
posted by JJ86 at 8:13 AM on January 29, 2007

Well, I must say, I feel as if I've just been hugged by a roomful of intelligent, like-minded, sympathetic people. Thank you for all the carefully considered answers.

To all those folks who responded with a variation on "This is a problem?" - my answer would be yes and no. For the most part, I do see my breaking down of tasks and ability to grasp the finer parts of the whole as central to my sense of self and talents. In my job, for instance, I often have a better sense of what can be delivered and when, because I'm able to look at a project, break it down, and project a timeline based on that knowledge. Very helpful there. Also helpful when I'm able to anticipate steps others don't see until they are right on top of them. I can give clear direction so, for example, when I've hired an editor to work on an HD tape, the raw footage arrives in the tape format it needs to -- and I don't lose 1-2 days waiting for a Panasonic DVCPro HD copy of what was originally sent on Sony HDCam. All good.

And I do enjoy puttering -- don't get me wrong. I guess the part that's not so enjoyable -- so long as I don't let go and let myself enjoy it, I suppose -- is when it veers just to the left of what I think is reasonable, and instead of making strides and reaching milestones, I feel weighed down and mired in an endless swamp of ever-increasing tasks. Specifically, my ambition to do everything is thwarted by my tendency to enjoy doing nothing -- or nothing much more than poking through the garage, leafing through that collection of "Modern Secretary Magazine" I bought at a thrift store in Seattle 3 years ago instead of finding that copy of "The Sandpiper" on vinyl. (Which, by the way, I have a copy of on CD -- it just sounds so much better on vinyl. Warmer, richer -- and would you just look at that cover art?)

rubberfish wins the metadoctor medal, though, for what's obviously the real problem: I'm a yak shaver. Merely reading it rules out any other possible explanation. And gives me hope knowing I'm not alone. While also explaining the vague, quasi-sexual feelings I have for Merlin Mann.

Civil_Disobedient, of all the familiar and like-minded posts here, yours perhaps rings the truest. Which may be very embarrassing for you now that I've come clean on that Merlin Mann business.

-harlequin- a great series of steps, which may just be helpful to carry around in my pocket for memorization on the rough days.

altcountryman, I am THERE with you on the packing. I left out packing for trips because the mere thought of it could derail my entire post. The problem with trips is they confront you with the infinite possibilities of multiple days all at once. It's enough of a challenge to see my way through to the final step of a dinner party. The potential permutations of days away from home at a stretch is well-nigh debilitating. Thank God for the iPod, which effectively eliminated what used to be several hours of choosing precisely what CDs would be accompanying me (although not the building of playlists).

And flabdablet: you should come visit the house sometime. Me in marketing! My partner an engineer for Google! It's like "I Love Lucy," but with computers everywhere.
posted by mrkinla at 11:21 PM on January 29, 2007

Please pass on my sympathies. I'm sure you'll make them sound convincing :)
posted by flabdablet at 12:47 AM on January 31, 2007