everybody here is fired
January 24, 2007 3:49 PM Subscribe
I just got fired. Looking for advice on how to spin my lack of employment to the people I'm interviewing with in the near future, some of whom know that I was working as recently as this morning.
Some possibly relevant issues:
1) I had only been at this job for a few months. To new prospects, I could perhaps say that I left my old job and then took time off. My relatively artistic schooling, relative to the type of work I do, could help justify a story that I was working on some sort of project. And I was making $75k, perhaps enough for some people to believe that I could afford to not work for a couple of months.
2) The HR person who walked me through the firing process said that any inquiries about my status there would be told the length of time I worked there, but not why I'm no longer there (as expected). However, even revealing that I'm no longer there at all is going to seem a little weird to, for example, the recruiters I spoke to today, if they happen to call tomorrow to verify my current employment (though I doubt they will).
3) I was about to quit anyway. Really. In fact, I had directly told my manager recently that I was looking for other work, and that I wished I could just quit, but I needed the money (they gave me a months' severance and said they will not contest an unemployment claim, so that has worked out ok too). So, I could pretend to have quit, and have given two weeks' notice, and the last day just happened to be today. It might seem weird to some that I did that without having another job to go to, though. But the point is that I did have good reasons for wanting to leave, so I might be able to sort of pretend that I did leave, for those reasons, which is pretty close to the truth anyway.
4) I do have someone at the job I just left who will be a good reference for me if necessary.
5) What's going to be really weird, no matter how I slice it, I think, is my interview tomorrow. The person I'm meeting with almost certainly knows that I recently had a job. The job I'm interviewing for is very similar (maybe too similar, but hey, like I'm going to turn down an interview the day after I lose my job). So the obvious question hanging in the air will be: if you were so unhappy with your last job that you left without having another prospect, then why should we take you seriously in terms of your interest in this one? To which the honest answer would be, well, I guess I'm just hoping that your company isn't an atmosphere infused with paranoia and mediocrity, and that you guys aren't a bunch of stupid assholes...and heck, maybe that's what I should say, or some version thereof.
I'm available to answer any questions. No sympathy please! I feel elated!
Some possibly relevant issues:
1) I had only been at this job for a few months. To new prospects, I could perhaps say that I left my old job and then took time off. My relatively artistic schooling, relative to the type of work I do, could help justify a story that I was working on some sort of project. And I was making $75k, perhaps enough for some people to believe that I could afford to not work for a couple of months.
2) The HR person who walked me through the firing process said that any inquiries about my status there would be told the length of time I worked there, but not why I'm no longer there (as expected). However, even revealing that I'm no longer there at all is going to seem a little weird to, for example, the recruiters I spoke to today, if they happen to call tomorrow to verify my current employment (though I doubt they will).
3) I was about to quit anyway. Really. In fact, I had directly told my manager recently that I was looking for other work, and that I wished I could just quit, but I needed the money (they gave me a months' severance and said they will not contest an unemployment claim, so that has worked out ok too). So, I could pretend to have quit, and have given two weeks' notice, and the last day just happened to be today. It might seem weird to some that I did that without having another job to go to, though. But the point is that I did have good reasons for wanting to leave, so I might be able to sort of pretend that I did leave, for those reasons, which is pretty close to the truth anyway.
4) I do have someone at the job I just left who will be a good reference for me if necessary.
5) What's going to be really weird, no matter how I slice it, I think, is my interview tomorrow. The person I'm meeting with almost certainly knows that I recently had a job. The job I'm interviewing for is very similar (maybe too similar, but hey, like I'm going to turn down an interview the day after I lose my job). So the obvious question hanging in the air will be: if you were so unhappy with your last job that you left without having another prospect, then why should we take you seriously in terms of your interest in this one? To which the honest answer would be, well, I guess I'm just hoping that your company isn't an atmosphere infused with paranoia and mediocrity, and that you guys aren't a bunch of stupid assholes...and heck, maybe that's what I should say, or some version thereof.
I'm available to answer any questions. No sympathy please! I feel elated!
If its in the same industry or area, can you be sure that your former boss and prospective employer wont talk? I know that it wouldnt be official company line, but I'd tread very carefully in using anything but truth. Consider been vague I guess.
This is something I would ask someone about directly if I was interviewing them. I'd be very interested in the attitude that came across in the response, and if that indicated a potential issue. I'd also be careful about how you phrase your intentions to leave previously, I definately wouldn't hire someone who I thought was blase about any job, no matter how crap it might be. I guess this is interviewing 101. I want someone who doesn't suck and will take my company seriously.
posted by kaydo at 4:02 PM on January 24, 2007
This is something I would ask someone about directly if I was interviewing them. I'd be very interested in the attitude that came across in the response, and if that indicated a potential issue. I'd also be careful about how you phrase your intentions to leave previously, I definately wouldn't hire someone who I thought was blase about any job, no matter how crap it might be. I guess this is interviewing 101. I want someone who doesn't suck and will take my company seriously.
posted by kaydo at 4:02 PM on January 24, 2007
Pick up a copy of 60 Seconds and You're Hired. Author deals deftly with questions like these as well as plenty of other difficult interview questions / situations.
posted by allkindsoftime at 4:08 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by allkindsoftime at 4:08 PM on January 24, 2007
Whatever you do don't bash your former company/boss/work environment, etc. That's interviews 101 so you probably know that.
In the case of your interview tomorrow where it sounds like there is a high likelihood that the interviewer will have some form of increased knowledge about your dismissal you're going to have to play it a little more straight than you would elsewhere. If the interviewer knows some of the personalities involved then that could work in your favor.
I think you're on the right track when you write that you were on your way out to begin with. Having expressed this willingness to leave, your boss(es) decided to go ahead and let you go. I don't know exactly how you should communicate that to your interviewer tomorrow but I think you should be able to do so in a way that sounds plausible and doesn't make you seem like some type of unreliable flake.
I'd use pretty neutral language, but make it clear in the most mild way possible that you found yourself "let down" by the work environment, or maybe that the job wasn't what you expected, etc, etc... if you can give the impression that no one (yourself or your boss/company) are/were to blame for your dismissal and that it was some sort of institutional problem (the commute suck, you didn't agree with the direction the company is heading, etc) then that may work. That takes some pretty deft dancing around language wise, so good luck. Then again, the person conducting the interview may not be the sharpest knife - especially if they are some "HR person."
As for other interviews you can totally play up the, "Well, I saved up some money and decided that leaving my old job would free up valuable time so that I could search for that perfect company which would be a better fit for me." I would also stress that, "You're going crazy NOT working and the sooner you get back into a healthy work routine the better..." Apply as much creative bullshit as you see fit.
Good luck!
posted by wfrgms at 4:21 PM on January 24, 2007
In the case of your interview tomorrow where it sounds like there is a high likelihood that the interviewer will have some form of increased knowledge about your dismissal you're going to have to play it a little more straight than you would elsewhere. If the interviewer knows some of the personalities involved then that could work in your favor.
I think you're on the right track when you write that you were on your way out to begin with. Having expressed this willingness to leave, your boss(es) decided to go ahead and let you go. I don't know exactly how you should communicate that to your interviewer tomorrow but I think you should be able to do so in a way that sounds plausible and doesn't make you seem like some type of unreliable flake.
I'd use pretty neutral language, but make it clear in the most mild way possible that you found yourself "let down" by the work environment, or maybe that the job wasn't what you expected, etc, etc... if you can give the impression that no one (yourself or your boss/company) are/were to blame for your dismissal and that it was some sort of institutional problem (the commute suck, you didn't agree with the direction the company is heading, etc) then that may work. That takes some pretty deft dancing around language wise, so good luck. Then again, the person conducting the interview may not be the sharpest knife - especially if they are some "HR person."
As for other interviews you can totally play up the, "Well, I saved up some money and decided that leaving my old job would free up valuable time so that I could search for that perfect company which would be a better fit for me." I would also stress that, "You're going crazy NOT working and the sooner you get back into a healthy work routine the better..." Apply as much creative bullshit as you see fit.
Good luck!
posted by wfrgms at 4:21 PM on January 24, 2007
One diplomatic phrase to use about the old job could be that it "wasn't a good fit". That sounds pretty neutral, but acknowledges the fact that nobody was really satisfied with the situation. I don't see any need to specify who decided it was time for you to move on.
posted by nixxon at 4:41 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by nixxon at 4:41 PM on January 24, 2007
I guess I'm just hoping that your company isn't an atmosphere infused with paranoia and mediocrity, and that you guys aren't a bunch of stupid assholes
I'd stay away from this one, especially that last part. Otherwise honesty is always best.
posted by Big_B at 4:54 PM on January 24, 2007
I'd stay away from this one, especially that last part. Otherwise honesty is always best.
posted by Big_B at 4:54 PM on January 24, 2007
Just be honest, its a rule that is taught as early as kindergarten and for very good reason. So you got fired, big deal. If you walk in there and tell them the truth about being fired there is a good chance that just the mere fact your being honest about it will show them some real character. Whatever you do don't bullshit or be vague. There is no honor in that. "Contrary to the old cliche, genuinely nice guys most often finish first or very near it." --Malcolm Forbes
posted by pwally at 5:02 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by pwally at 5:02 PM on January 24, 2007
Second others with neutral vague responses. If pressed for details, continue to be vague, neutral, and pleasant, and take the first opportunity to turn the conversation towards the future.
Interviewer: So, why did you leave you last job?
bingo: It was not a good fit.
Interviewer: Could you be more specific?
bingo: I had a conversation with my supervisor, and it was apparent that the company and I were heading in different directions. One reason why I'm so excited to be interviewing here at Company X is that [relevant thing that excites you about Company X] is a real priority for me in my career. That's just one reason that I think I'd be a great fit for the position.
posted by Kwine at 5:25 PM on January 24, 2007
Interviewer: So, why did you leave you last job?
bingo: It was not a good fit.
Interviewer: Could you be more specific?
bingo: I had a conversation with my supervisor, and it was apparent that the company and I were heading in different directions. One reason why I'm so excited to be interviewing here at Company X is that [relevant thing that excites you about Company X] is a real priority for me in my career. That's just one reason that I think I'd be a great fit for the position.
posted by Kwine at 5:25 PM on January 24, 2007
Also, just noticed the ben folds reference in the title. Nice!
posted by Kwine at 5:27 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by Kwine at 5:27 PM on January 24, 2007
Reasons why you might have been fired. (Only use if they're true):
posted by krisjohn at 6:57 PM on January 24, 2007
- The company is going through some tough times and I was the most recent hire
- A recent reoganisation made my position redundant
- A recent merger has moved my department to another state
- The company has decided to outsource
- It was a new position and it became clear that their original requirements for the role don't fill the need.
posted by krisjohn at 6:57 PM on January 24, 2007
I think you're on the right track when you write that you were on your way out to begin with. Having expressed this willingness to leave, your boss(es) decided to go ahead and let you go.
I nth. "I came on board and the company and I realized we weren't a good fit for each other. They became aware I was looking for other work and let me go." If you have a good interview and otherwise quality references this isn't going to be a deal-breaker for them. If they're otherwise on the fence and this is enough to put them off then they very possibly won't be an improvement on the place that just showed you the door.
There's a percentage of people out there who are oddly territorial, view resigning as a sign of disloyalty, expect over-the-top fealty, and a variety of other psychotic behaviors. If you can weed yourself out from working for them up-front by being disqualified because of relatively innocuous things then that's a POSITIVE result.
posted by phearlez at 8:34 PM on January 24, 2007
I nth. "I came on board and the company and I realized we weren't a good fit for each other. They became aware I was looking for other work and let me go." If you have a good interview and otherwise quality references this isn't going to be a deal-breaker for them. If they're otherwise on the fence and this is enough to put them off then they very possibly won't be an improvement on the place that just showed you the door.
There's a percentage of people out there who are oddly territorial, view resigning as a sign of disloyalty, expect over-the-top fealty, and a variety of other psychotic behaviors. If you can weed yourself out from working for them up-front by being disqualified because of relatively innocuous things then that's a POSITIVE result.
posted by phearlez at 8:34 PM on January 24, 2007
"they ... said they will not contest an unemployment claim"Would it not be technically acceptable to say that you had been laid off, then? I don't have any experience with the world of unemployment claims, but isn't that typically the rule?
posted by misterbrandt at 9:07 PM on January 24, 2007
Yeah, I would stick to a simple "we've parted ways" with kind of a knowing nod if it comes up. Then, (if they ask!), tell them the truth: that you were looking around for work, you had an open conversation with them, and they let you go. Have something ready to say (but not volunteer!) if they ask why you left. Focus on the positive ("I really enjoy the work, but I'm looking for a place which will let me X.")
It's kind of weird, imo, to ask questions about a person's former work environment. (Asking about the actual work is, of course, to be expected, but not so much the environment.)
posted by blenderfish at 11:12 PM on January 24, 2007
It's kind of weird, imo, to ask questions about a person's former work environment. (Asking about the actual work is, of course, to be expected, but not so much the environment.)
posted by blenderfish at 11:12 PM on January 24, 2007
I'm with misterbrandt -- you were laid off, not fired. Especially with the month's severance! You don't give a month's severance to someone you're firing.
posted by kindall at 12:30 AM on January 25, 2007
posted by kindall at 12:30 AM on January 25, 2007
Thirding misterbrandt and kindall, and came in here to specifically say that. Severance pay + noncontest of unemployment application doesn't equal being fired. It's being laid off -- and what you describe is more solidly so than a lot of layoff scenarios.
In my industry, at least, no one bats an eye at interviewees saying they were laid off from a previous job.
posted by gnomeloaf at 9:35 AM on January 25, 2007
In my industry, at least, no one bats an eye at interviewees saying they were laid off from a previous job.
posted by gnomeloaf at 9:35 AM on January 25, 2007
Response by poster: Well, to me "laid off" suggests that I was downsized or something. I mean, if someone asks 'why were you laid off?' then it comes down to the same thing.
Anyway, I had my interview today (before coming back to this thread). They seemed to really like me. When they asked me how soon I might be available, I said 'actually, I was fired yesterday,' and to my pleasant surprise, their eyes lit up like I was offering them candy.
However, I'll go ahead and say 'laid off' going forward. It seems like a strange distinction, though. I'm getting the severance and uncontested unemployment because it's a big company and they just don't want to have to deal with lawsuits or bad publicity from disgruntled former employees.
posted by bingo at 11:29 AM on January 25, 2007
Anyway, I had my interview today (before coming back to this thread). They seemed to really like me. When they asked me how soon I might be available, I said 'actually, I was fired yesterday,' and to my pleasant surprise, their eyes lit up like I was offering them candy.
However, I'll go ahead and say 'laid off' going forward. It seems like a strange distinction, though. I'm getting the severance and uncontested unemployment because it's a big company and they just don't want to have to deal with lawsuits or bad publicity from disgruntled former employees.
posted by bingo at 11:29 AM on January 25, 2007
"Laid off" just means you were let go for some reason other than cause.
posted by kindall at 9:30 PM on January 25, 2007
posted by kindall at 9:30 PM on January 25, 2007
Response by poster: Well, there's always cause, isn't there? Otherwise it wouldn't have happened at all. I guess we're defining "cause" as "something that was your fault." But even that can get blurry. In this case, from my employer's point of view, there definitely was cause; I sat there and listened to someone explain to me why it was happening, and it was all about me. For the company, the important distinction was that I was not guilty of gross insubordination, so I get the severance and unemployment. Never were the words "fired" or "laid off" used. What they said was "terminated."
posted by bingo at 6:03 AM on January 26, 2007
posted by bingo at 6:03 AM on January 26, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by willnot at 3:54 PM on January 24, 2007