Cops. Bend over or not?
January 24, 2007 4:43 AM   Subscribe

I had an unfortunate run-in with the police last night. Yes, I admit it, I took a picture of them. Should I talk to a lawyer (I wasn't charged with anything) or should I just let it slide?

I took a picture of three cops in action and got hosed. Should I talk to my lawyer? I'm totally pissed about the incident. First time I've ever been treated like this. Here's my side of the story:

Wednesday 1:00 AM, January 24, 2007: Two police cars stop in the back parking lot of the B* Restaurant and start shining their cars' spotlights around. I'm on the back porch talking to my friend John M*. The porch is raised about fifteen feet in the air, so I walk down the steps to the back parking lot. I'm curious. What's going on?

I take one flash photograph, because I'm an amateur photographer and I have a camera in my pocket.

Within one minute, there are three policeman surrounding me and asking me why I'm taking their pictures. I do not ask for nor do I notice any of their names or badge numbers. They ask me for identification, which I produce. One of the three, an Asian-American as best I can tell, asks me if I wanted to take a picture of "the yellow boy because I'm so photogenic."

They order me to come with them and I'm told to to put my hands on the hood of one of the police cars. I keep my hands on the car for the next few minutes and at no time did the three policemen frisk me.

While my hands are on the car, The policemen ask me what I'm doing taking their pictures. I tell them that I'm an amateur photographer and I'm interested in what's happening in the parking lot of the B* Restaurant. They question me about being an amateur photographer and ask me how many pictures I have sold. I tell them that I've sold a couple. The policemen then ask me what a camera flash might be mistaken for and they hint that a gun might be involved. I guess a "muzzle flash" and they tell me that I am correct.

They then accuse me of being overserved by the bartender at the B* Restaurant. I tell them them that I've been served exactly three drinks. They ask me what time it is. I guess that it's about 11:00 PM. They say it's 1:00 AM. Then they claim that I cannot walk a straight line because I appeared to be weaving as I walked to their car. I tell them "that's bullshit" and offer to take a sobriety test. They do not respond. I offer to take a sobriety test once more. Again, they do not respond. About one minute later, they tell me to go away. I do so.

I walk up the back steps of the back porch of the B* Restaurant to talk to my friend John M* who has been observing the entire incident. I am quite upset by how I was treated and am shaking from the stress. My friend John M* can back me up on my story from his viewpoint, which was from the back porch and also from the back parking lot of the B* Restaurant. We talk together for a few minutes on the back porch until two of the three policemen appear from inside of the back door of the B* Restaurant and order me to leave. I do so immediately.
posted by shinybeast to Law & Government (26 answers total)
 
If you weren't charged with anything, let it slide from a police point of view. You might want to submit the report to the ACLU, though, your local office might compile reports about things like this.
posted by By The Grace of God at 4:45 AM on January 24, 2007


Eh, they were bored with what they were doing and decided to rough you up a bit. Then they got bored with that.
posted by intermod at 4:55 AM on January 24, 2007


So basically there was a potential situation in a parking lot at 1am which required 3 cops to be looking around. Enter you with your camera, who decides to do something distracting by setting off your camera flash. Depending on what the cops were doing, this could have been dangerous to both you and to them. Perhaps understandably therefore, the cops might be a little irate at this. As such, I can't say I'm really surprised that they came over and gave you some hassle. Having said that though, the photogenic comment seemed out of line as did the insistence that you were drunk...
I'd probably just let it go though at this point - it sounds to me like you did something stupid and they decided to mess with you as a result. If it really is bothering you, do as By The Grace of God says - talk to the ACLU.
posted by Mave_80 at 5:01 AM on January 24, 2007 [2 favorites]


Just a thought, but it sounds like they were looking for something or someone in that back alley. Unfortunately, it seems like they think it might be you since you are the only one around. I think that is the source of the problem here.
posted by Loto at 5:10 AM on January 24, 2007


What rights of yours were violated, in your opinion?
posted by unSane at 5:11 AM on January 24, 2007


You weren't charged with anything, so what damages would you go after? The value of a few minutes of your time?

Courts aren't there to make pissed-off people feel better. They're there to deal with actual no-shit problems that demand fixing, and real no-shit consequences that need to be undone or compensated.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:14 AM on January 24, 2007


I don't know where you live, or how long you plan to live there, but I can't see where you will benefit from reporting them. I do see where you could end up causing yourself more trouble- lets say after reporting the incident you run into them again (or anyone of their 800 friends)- I have to imagine that you would probably be treated with even less respect.
posted by bkeene12 at 5:16 AM on January 24, 2007




You only took pictures in a public place of a public event involving public servants, and you were not warned not to take pictures, so you did nothing obviously or intentionally wrong. But they didn't like it, so they tried to scare you, which is easy to do when it's three guys armed with guns and cuffs and the threat of incarceration ordering you around and treating you like they suspect you of doing illegal things, and they tried to goad you into doing or saying something they could get you for. While all they really had against you was that you snapped a picture of them.

About the flash argument -- maybe the click of a non-flash camera also could be mistaken for a gun. Maybe reaching for anything in your pocket could be mistaken for someone reaching for a weapon. Maybe someone on a balcony could be an assassin or Peeping Tom or lookout. Maybe someone in a car is a car thief. Maybe anything you do or say could be considered a threat if they don't like you. They just don't like people taking pictures of them. (If flash cameras are dangerous to use, don't you think the cops ought to warn the public that they are in danger of being shot if they take pictures at night?)

They could have explained things politely (we're looking for a mugger, we think he's around here, we don't think it's you but you are distracting and interrupting us, so please go back inside), but they chose to be dicks. Because they can. Don't bother trying to do anything about it, though. There's no law against being a dick.
posted by pracowity at 5:39 AM on January 24, 2007


What bkeene12 said--surely it would be better not to draw attention to yourself.
posted by equalpants at 5:56 AM on January 24, 2007


It's not necessarily good or right, but frankly, it's in your own best interests to avoid the attention of the police as much as you possibly can. That means: Don't be where they are and don't do things that will get their attention. Be completely average and uninteresting.

If you do have to interact with an officer, just remember that they like things to go smoothly. Facilitate that and you probably won't have any problems.

It seems to me these guys were -- as pracowity said -- just being dicks. Being a dick is one of the time-honored methods used by police to determine who is going to cause a problem. You did something kind of stupid by getting their attention, but you seem to have handled yourself well otherwise. Don't take it personally. Just chalk it up to experience.
posted by Kikkoman at 6:01 AM on January 24, 2007


Have you still got the picture you took?
posted by Phanx at 6:40 AM on January 24, 2007


No real harm was done, I'd drop it. A friend of mine filed a complaint against the police when we were in grad school. The complaint was laughed off and he got an amazing number of moving violations after that. I don't know if that would happen in your case or not, my hometowns police force is known for pushing the boundaries of what's legal (under directive from above - always trying to get more rights for police, more things deemed as standard operating procedure etc)
posted by substrate at 6:42 AM on January 24, 2007


I'm as anti-authoritarian as anybody, and I think you probably should just let it drop. You were drunk and did something that annoyed some cops and they gave you a hard time.

If you were sober, they probably would have been more polite. Nothing wrong with being drunk or anything, but cops deal with obnoxious drunk people all the time, which means they don't have a lot of patience for it.
posted by empath at 6:47 AM on January 24, 2007


As a grungy teenager I was hassled by cops a lot. This is not quite an answer to your question, but perhaps information you will find useful.

I agree with Jellicle, but not most of the other people in this thread. Things happening in public places are perfectly legal to photograph -- including police activity. You were harassed without reason and in an unreasonable fashion.

You should read "The Photographer's Right". In fact, you should keep a copy in your pocket.

The porch is raised about fifteen feet in the air, so I walk down the steps to the back parking lot.

You are in a lot safer place shooting from your porch.

I do not ask for nor do I notice any of their names or badge numbers.

After supplying your ID without objection, always ask for theirs. Be firm about it.

The policemen ask me what I'm doing taking their pictures. I tell them that I'm an amateur photographer and I'm interested in what's happening in the parking lot of the B* Restaurant.

Skip the "amateur photographer part". NEVER EVER volunteer info to the police. Just say "I saw things going on so I thought I'd take a picture." or even "I wanted a picture of the restaurant."

They question me about being an amateur photographer and ask me how many pictures I have sold.

Volunteering information will get you into weird situations like that, where cops can question you in ways that are awkward. It just makes you look suspicious. Whether you are a pro or not has absolutely NO bearing on the legality of taking their pictures. They know you're not a pro- pros have big cameras, vests, sometimes press passes.

I tell them that I've sold a couple.

In the future, your answer should be "none" or "why?"

The policemen then ask me what a camera flash might be mistaken for and they hint that a gun might be involved. I guess a "muzzle flash" and they tell me that I am correct.

Do not answer this type of question with anything but "I don't know!"!! If you know it could represent a muzzle flash, you could have been threatening them.

You did the right thing about the drinks. Be insistent, offer NO extra information, and keep the burden of proof on the police.

That's all I have to offer. I've had a number of bad experiences with cops (on most of those occasions, having done nothing wrong, other than look different) and that's what I learned.
posted by fake at 6:52 AM on January 24, 2007 [6 favorites]


You were within your rights. So were they.

The advice to avoid cops is good. It's especially good at 1AM, and especially good after having a few drinks.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:57 AM on January 24, 2007


I agree with fake. The police could ask you not to take photographs, they could ask you what you were doing, but they should do it politely and reasonably. If everyone accepts that the police are bound to be a bit loutish and bullying and it's best just to steer clear of them, it's bad for everybody.

That said, I agree you're not going to get much out of complaining. How about a national campaign 'Snap a Cop', where every time anyone sees any police officers they automatically take a couple of pictures. There'd be problems to begin with, but after a while they'd just have to get used to it, and the effect might be salutary.

Maybe what you should have said to them was, 'I'm taking a picture - and my friend up in that window is videoing us.'
posted by Phanx at 7:21 AM on January 24, 2007


fake writes "Skip the 'amateur photographer part'. NEVER EVER volunteer info to the police. "

Very good advice. And ya the cops were dicks but there isn't much you can do besides irritate their sense of vengeance. A friend foolishly reported a cop for repeatedly running a red light and he experienced continuous harassment from him for years until the officer "retired" after killing two kids during a silent, no flashing light, high speed chase. (search for Winters).

Mave_80 writes "Enter you with your camera, who decides to do something distracting by setting off your camera flash. Depending on what the cops were doing, this could have been dangerous to both you and to them"

What kind of fool, especially one trained in fire arm use, would confuse a camera flash for a muzzle flash? The colour is wrong. The duration is wrong. The intensity curve is wrong.

pracowity writes "(If flash cameras are dangerous to use, don't you think the cops ought to warn the public that they are in danger of being shot if they take pictures at night?)"

And stop using them for red light and photo radar cameras.
posted by Mitheral at 7:34 AM on January 24, 2007


these cops are scum bags and bullies. Jellicle is right though, you have no effective recourse.
posted by subtle_squid at 7:39 AM on January 24, 2007


File a grievance with the police department. It won't get you any money and it might not lead to anything within the department, but it might make you feel virtuous and depending on the department, they may even investigate it.
posted by Xalf at 8:05 AM on January 24, 2007


I tell them that I've sold a couple.

In the future, your answer should be "none" or "why?"



In my experience, asking a cop "why?" in response to a question (especially when it's clear they are only asking to be a dick) is the fastest way of letting them know that you are going to be difficult and are going to have to be compelled to cooperate.

Wish I didn't know from experience.
posted by hermitosis at 8:18 AM on January 24, 2007


I've run into condescending cops so often it's what, unfortunately, I expect from them. I just answer their questions neutrally and swallow any sort of pride and urge to tell them to fuck off. There's nothing else you can really do.
posted by juiceCake at 9:10 AM on January 24, 2007


Uh, speaking from experience (having been rowsted before in N. Houston), the police are not required, even at your insistence, to give you a sobriety test when you aren't/haven't been driving, even at your own esxpense. They can maintain your lack of sobriety based on the "arresting officer's observance that you were acting intoxicated" and off you go to jail because they felt you "were a hazard to yourself or others." This happens all the time, and in most cases, unless you have a lawyer in the family or money to burn you end up settling in court as the P.I. fee is substantially less than hiring a lawyer to get you off. It's a revenue enhancer.

Whether it grates or not, the lesson is always say "yes sir" or "officer" - there is absolutely no percentage in smarting off. Valuable lesson learned.

Go ahead, file a grievance if it makes you happy - you're in their bailiwick and they can fuck with you in future at their convenience.

Walk away.
posted by Pressed Rat at 9:15 AM on January 24, 2007 [1 favorite]


You fucked with them, so they fucked with you back. If you take pictures of cops, don't use a flash.
posted by bingo at 9:22 AM on January 24, 2007


You should let this one go. They didn't actually even violate any of your civil rights. The problem, as I see it, is that you're not aware of what your rights are.

If a cop hassles you, and you don't want to be hassled, ask if you're under arrest or being cited. If not, ask them on what grounds they're detaining you. Cops know these parts of the law very well. If you know about your rights under these laws, it'll be easy for you to make sure a cop has no reason to detain or hassle you.

One of the rights you don't have, incidentally, is to walk around drunk and start hassling cops. Interfering with a police officer in the course of their duty and being drunk and disorderly are both crimes, and the cop decides whether or not you're committing them. You didn't even know what time of day it was; that could have been used against you if you tried to fight a D&D charge. So you might well be pleased you didn't end up in the drunk tank.

For all that cops are authoritarian, narrow-minded jerks, they serve a useful function in society and there's no particular reason to involve yourself in that function. You'd go out of your way to avoid stepping in a dog turd on the street; treat cops the same way.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:36 PM on January 24, 2007


Were you trying to drum up some "Innocent blogger beaten by the police for no reason" kind of story or something?
From the way it sounds, you went out of your way to get closer and started snapping photos. They grabbed you, got some information, you pulled the "amateur photographer" bit. Many people (not just cops) hate that.
You didn't get arrested. They let you go and you didn't get clubbed like a seal or thrown in jail. In some places, you could have been arrested and charged with a misdeameanor with a $1,000 fine for 'interfering with police duties.' (unrelated, but the same charges can be filed if you interfere with an EMT/Paramedic while he/she is performing his/her duties)

It doesn't sound like anything really bad went down. Next time, take photos from your own porch instead. (and to anyone else, please spare me the "omg police state!!11!" platitudes.)
posted by drstein at 12:44 PM on January 24, 2007


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