my toddler won't sleep!

January 22, 2007 9:18 AM

Parents of current or former 13 month-olds . . . do your toddlers ever sleep? Or stop whining?

I've read the other ask.me infant/toddler sleep questions. I'm not asking for advice or tips on getting my toddler to sleep.

My main concern is that his behavior is not "normal" and that's what I'm asking about. I'm hoping I'm wrong.

About 3 months ago, he stopped sleeping through the night and he now wakes 5 to 10 times each night. He is also much more whiny and grumpy, sometimes all day long. He still has good, happy moments, but overall, every day is more whiny than not.

His pediatrician only says that sleep problems are normal - she was fairly dismissive, but I guess my gut is telling me that this isn't right.

I suspected possible food allergies, and scheduled an appointment with a pediatric allergist, but it's several weeks away and I couldn't get in sooner. He has no overt allergy symptoms (no ezcema, rashes, hives, breathing problems, no diarrhea or constipation, etc.). The sole reason I think it could be food is the timing of the behavior change in comparison to when he started eating table food exclusively. As for individual foods, we did add them slowly and nothing jumped out as he tried each new food.

Is this just a whiny, shitty time for kids? If it's not allergies, what are some other possibilities I might broach to his pediatrician? Thanks for any input.

(Anon because I don't want potential medical info about my son on the Internet.)

posted by anonymous to health & fitness (29 comments total)

My daughter never slept through the night. She still doesn't. She's 16. The biggest difference is that when she's awake now, she can read a book, watch TV, do homework, and generally amuse herself. She was always whiny. She still is. There are times when it drives me crazy.

I wouldn't say she's "normal." She's extremely bright, with an IQ of 156. I gather that a lot of gifted kids are like this. Have you considered that? They don't generally test for "giftedness" until around 3rd grade.
posted by clarkstonian at 9:26 AM on January 22, 2007

Has anything changed in his life, new sibling, mom working, dad not home as much, new schedule, different bed, etc.? Yes, it is common for children to have trouble sleeping like this, but it seems odd that it came on rather suddenly. It could just be natural for him, but I would search for what might be different in life. It could be food, environment, social, schedule or so many things.
posted by caddis at 9:27 AM on January 22, 2007

IANAP, but my friends who are all swear by some hard-core (at least, it seems like it to me, because it involves leaving the babies alone and crying when they are supposed to be sleeping, if they are not sleeping at those times) method of rigid nap times and rigid (and early) bed times. While this was difficult to get the kids adjusted to, now that they are all so adjusted, all users of this technique report great success and tend to evangalize about it.
posted by jcwagner at 9:30 AM on January 22, 2007

My son did not sleep for more than two hours at a stretch until he was over two years old. He continued to have sleep issues for many years. He was also diagnosed as being autistic when he was 18 months old. Those two facts are not necessarily related, and I am not suggesting that your child is autistic. I would suggest, however, that you be looking for any other possibly symptoms. No need to be scared or paranoid, but a healthy vigilance would probably be appropriate.
posted by Lokheed at 9:30 AM on January 22, 2007

Could be allergies. I may have told this story before.

Our second child (daughter) was really fussy. A lot. Eventually my wife went on an "elimination diet" of turkey, plain white rice and pears. Fussiness went down a lot. Eventually by adding foods back in slowly we determined that when my wife ate peanut butter, the baby got gassy. (This was 100% breast feeding). Mom stopped eating PB, our daughter was happier.

So, a dietary change could be upsetting your child without it being some super-obvious allergic reaction. Having said that, it could be anything and/or nothing. If you want to test the food theory, drop back to just one or two types of food and go from there. I would start with a rice cereal as it's less allergenic than something wheat-based. Stuff like wheat intolerance or lactose intolerance aren't allergies per se, but could be making your child upset and/or gassy.

But again, no guarantees. Babies fuss. If he's waking up a lot overnight, that will make him grumpy during the day. There are a lot of possible causes.
posted by GuyZero at 9:34 AM on January 22, 2007

My kids didn't sleep through the night until they were two-years old. I didn't sweat it too much. I knew they would sleep through the night eventually.

Could he be getting more teeth? Could he be going through a period of separation anxiety?

I suspected possible food allergies, and scheduled an appointment with a pediatric allergist

I am not a believer that food affects mood, disposition, or behavior. There is a debate over food dyes, but if your child has a true food allergy you will see physical symptoms: rash, diarrhea, stomach upset, vomiting, etc.

Your child may be a high-demand child that isn't easily contented. My second son was like that. He was colicky, he never slept. He was cranky, he was hard to please. He is now a lovely three-year-old and has always been wonderful, but some kids are more laid back than others.

If you can get your child out into the fresh air as much as possible. Wear him out. Try a sling or a baby carrier if you are into that. Good luck.
posted by LoriFLA at 9:37 AM on January 22, 2007

IANAD. While you may have a medical problem on your hands (and I am glad you are working on ruling out that possibility), whining is often learned because a parent reinforces it by giving attention or things (food, toys) in response to whining. I recommend you be positive you are not doing this.

The sleeplessness is another story. If you give a lot of attention to him when he wakes up and makes a fuss, you may be reinforcing that behavior too. We all have to learn to roll over and go back to sleep when we wake up - that's hard for your little guy since he's so young, but try to keep in mind that you have to help him learn to do this.
posted by putril at 9:41 AM on January 22, 2007

Our 15-month old slept through the night from about 3 months to 5 months, and that's it. She is often up several times a night, and the bigger issue with her is that it can take 3 hours to get her to go to bed in the first place.

We have a rigid schedule for naps and bedtime, and we do ensure that she has a consistent routine for both.

We've tried white noise, allergy tests, various routines, nightlights, pick up/put down, just about everything except cry-it-out which we refuse to consider.

Nothing helps. We have just learned to accept it, and we trust that she will outgrow it on her own pace.

That's not to say that we haven't had nights wherein we consider giving her away to hobos.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 9:43 AM on January 22, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

My toddler has reflux which got her up quite a bit. Once we got her on some meds for it (we had to get a 2nd opinion from our first pediatrician) she rarely gets up in the night. She's 17 months now, and we've been doing it for a couple months.
posted by monkeymadness at 9:43 AM on January 22, 2007

Oh yes, and I have to second the teething comment. This is the age where most kids start cutting their premolars, and those little bastards HURT.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 9:46 AM on January 22, 2007

My toddler has reflux which got her up quite a bit.

I had never heard of this until today, when I heard it twice. Apparently kids get Zantac too.
posted by GuyZero at 9:52 AM on January 22, 2007

I am not a believer that food affects mood, disposition, or behavior. There is a debate over food dyes, but if your child has a true food allergy you will see physical symptoms: rash, diarrhea, stomach upset, vomiting, etc.


For a thirteen month old, communication of these symptoms may present as mood, disposition and behavior. These are not the most eloquent people in the world, after all.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 9:56 AM on January 22, 2007

I agree spaceman, if he is crying from gas or a tummy ache that is one thing. But, if he isn't displaying any other symptoms, its probably not a food allergy.
posted by LoriFLA at 10:21 AM on January 22, 2007

I agree with jcwagner, a rigid sleep schedule is very important, make sure you reinforce it and see whether that makes a difference. I have two toddlers age 3 and whenever they break their sleep schedule I regret it. That said, food allergies, indigestion, insecurity being alone or having nightmares could be other reasons, being hungry or cold at night or not enough humidity in the room or even light noices that you have not noticed can also interfere with his sleep (sorry if are these too obvious suggestions). Frankly waking up 5-10 times a night is too much for him and for you and the fact that he is whining during the day is quite well explained by the lack of (good) sleep. Personally I would be upset at the pediatrician who dismissed your concerns. I would try to exclude one by one all the possibilities while waiting for the food allergist appointment.

On a more optimistic note, it might just be a phase and he will grow out of it soon.
posted by carmina at 10:24 AM on January 22, 2007

From three months on, when my daughter didn't get enough sleep or slept badly, she was a whiny pain in the ass the next day. She still is at age seven (thus I regretted letting her finish watching a movie Friday night for the rest of the weekend).

Wow, around that age, I think my daughter was hellbent on wearing me out. She would test us, do things just to see how we'd react. I took that as a sign of a slightly deeper understanding of herself and her role in our household. I could see that same behavior manifest itself in keeping himself up just to see if he can.

If breastmilk was used as a bedtime soother up until now, it might be what he's not taking in rather than something new he's added to his diet. This might support the acid reflux scenario that people above are bringing up. When my daughter was having heartburn/stomach issues, she was also a whining pain in the butt and having problems sleeping (but she was older, around age 4).

As a side note, kids' zantac smells so minty godawful I imagine kids just hide everything but their worst stomach aches to avoid taking the stuff.
posted by Gucky at 11:22 AM on January 22, 2007

I second jcwagners suggestion. While our baby is much younger, we were having shocking problems;

- Constant whining and unhappiness during the day
- Waking up 8-10 times at night (often demanding feeding)
- Refusing to sleep during the day

We went "hardcore";
- In bed at 7pm, every night
- Out of bed not before 7am, every morning
- Watching very closely for signs of tiredness all through the day - at the slightest rubbing of eyes or yawing, it's off to bed
- Controlled crying; 15 minutes then we resettle him, 20 minutes then we resettle him. By that time he's asleep 95% of the time and we don't have to let him cry any longer.

The end result? Well he ain't perfect, he's not sleeping through the night, although he is teething. But the improvements have been massive;

- He is now happy pretty much ALL the time during the day; the only time he is unhappy is when he starts to get tired, or if he falls over following his experimental attempts to climb the couch.
- He wakes 2-3 times a night, instead of every 45 minutes
- He is happy to take naps during the day, 3 to 4 times

So, we stand by going "hardcore" and letting him cry, because letting him cry for 15 minutes has turned an entire day of unhappiness into an entire day of happiness. Another thing we're noticing is the effect of activity; when he's spent the day crawling around, playing everywhere, he sleeps quite well. But if he's had a sedentary day, mostly sitting quietly, being pushed in the pram or driven in the car, he sleeps much worse at night. Is your 13-month old burning off enough energy during the day?
posted by Jimbob at 12:01 PM on January 22, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Apparently, as one of my friends who IAP informs me, this "hardcore" approach I (probably poorly and inaccurately) described is called the "Weissbluth method."
posted by jcwagner at 12:11 PM on January 22, 2007

My main concern is that his behavior is not "normal" and that's what I'm asking about.

There is such a wide difference in the behaviour of young children, that aside from the overtly pathological, almost anything can be considered "normal".
posted by Neiltupper at 12:16 PM on January 22, 2007

It sounds like he's whiny because he isn't getting enough sleep. One possibility that occurs is that he might have worms — worth checking out anyway.
posted by pharm at 12:26 PM on January 22, 2007

First, I have 2 small kids -- 2.5 and 1. They are both generally good sleepers, and sleep through the night, with some exceptions. Generally, the exceptions happen after a change in schedule (travel) or sickness when the kids tend to wake up a lot and require a lot of care. They get used to the changes and stop sleeping through the night.

Of course all kids are different, and yours may well have some medical reason for waking up. In our case, though, whenever the kids get on one of these restless kicks, the only answer is to not go get then every time they cry during the night. Doing so only reinforces the crying behavior and makes them think that nighttime is the time to play and make Mommy and Daddy run back and forth from their room to yours.

You didn't say what you do when the kid cries at night. Do you jump out of bed to comfort him/her? If so, read the chapter in Dr. Spock on sleep problems. It was a huge help for us -- but the biggest thing is to be able to let them cry themselves back to sleep. I don't in any way think this is cruel, etc., and in fact EVERYBODY is going to be much happier with the kids and Mom & Dad sleeping through the night, even if it takes a few tough nights of crying to get there.
posted by GregW at 12:39 PM on January 22, 2007

We run into the same situation with our 14 month old. Unfortunately, we have a 7 year old in the next room, so letting the little guy cry it out isn't really an option, or I'll be dealing with two kids who didn't sleep well. For the most part, giving him back the pacifier that he's lost gets him to calm down (I'm not sure how I'll get over that hurdle yet).

We go one or two nights where things are relatively fine, he wakes up one or two times but stays in his crib all night. Other nights, he wakes up every 20-40 minutes until eventually he won't calm down and I have to bring him into our bed. From there, sometimes he goes to sleep without a problem; other times he won't calm down and we just have to keep him in bed until he wears out. Giving him a bottle at that time generally helps, but not always.

I can't track it to any specific thing, but luckily I can get by on interrupted and/or minimal sleep. Try to keep naptime(s) and bedtime a consistant routine if possible, and don't let him fight out of bedtime. Best of luck to you.
posted by shinynewnick at 1:40 PM on January 22, 2007

This discussion brings up the whole question of where should the child sleep, in their own bed in their own room, in their own bed in their parent's room, or in the family bed with the parents? The modern custom is for the child to sleep in a separate room. However, this was not always the case and many people advocate a return to the practice of children sleeping with their parents. It certainly reduces these incidents of night waking. I am not necessarily advocating that you do this, but more saying that if you do get tired and let them in your bed, or you end up falling asleep in their bed (perhaps not when they are this young as that crib will get mighty cramped) I would not feel guilty. It can, though, lead to the child expecting or wanting this more often.
posted by caddis at 1:58 PM on January 22, 2007

My daughter went through a number of different sleep phases at various points. When you lose sleep on top of it, it's really quite wearing, but most of the phases I experienced passed. Right now she's getting into the "not always taking an afternoon nap" phase, which turns her into a terrorist in the evenings (she's going on 4).

Seen in this light, it's easier to manage: you don't negotiate with a terrorist. You offer him/her the opportunity to do the right thing with a clearly stated consequence of choosing not to do that, and you follow up consistently on that.

This is useless for when sleeping won't happen, but it is useful for unacceptable behaviors that result from being crabby. She's still crabby, but she's more likely to choose a different path.
posted by plinth at 2:09 PM on January 22, 2007

opps, forgot this link from my last comment: The Family Bed
posted by caddis at 2:42 PM on January 22, 2007

The sleep book is by Ferber. I read it many years ago; I'm sure there are new variations. It didn't work on my child, who still, at 19, does not sleep well. He is very much the minority; most babies can learn good sleep habits.

When my own wisdom teeth came in, I felt miserable - sniffly, achy and generally crappy, so don't discount teething as a source of crankiness.

Lack of sleep really equals crankiness. Even if you don't use the Ferber method, really strong, predictable, daily structure is really comforting to kids.

Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 2:48 PM on January 22, 2007

Oh good lord. You are writing my biography, anonymous. Our son just turned 14 months old and until about a month ago, he was a dream. Never had colic, always sunny, engaging, smart as a whip, loved life, etc. Now he whines all day long. All day. It's torture.

I have noticed that he seems to be trying hard to talk; he looks at me urgently, babbles angrily, points at something. I think part of the problem is teething, and part is frustration at knowing what he wants to say but not being able to participate in family conversations, and part is just the age.

So, anonymous, I think you're onto something when you suggest that this is "just a whiny, shitty time for kids."
posted by ROTFL at 8:57 PM on January 22, 2007

Really good friends of ours had this same problem, and it was totally food allergies. I think (but can't remember for sure) that the mom had to stop taking in dairy because it was giving the baby problems through the breastmilk. The baby is younger -- i think this happened at more like the 4 month mark, and the baby is now 8 months and it's been about a month since the allergies were diagnosed and things are much, much better. Is there no way to get the allergy appointment moved up?

Good luck!!!
posted by onlyconnect at 9:00 PM on January 22, 2007

Here's an answer from parents of a kid who whined from the day he turned two weeks old and has rarely let us sleep through the night.:-) He was just generally pissed off with the world and from 9-13 months he drove me insane with the whining - I had to take prozac to deal with it.

He doesn't have allergies. He was treated for reflux, which he may have had, but his symptoms seem to square more and more with what we now suspect is the cause: he's gifted. And gifted children are often bad sleepers and whiney and demanding as young babies and toddlers.

He's two and a half now, and he has regular nightmares that wake us, but not him, up, but otherwise he sleeps really well. We didn't use any method but a great bedtime routine and leaving him to cry for ONE minute each time he woke up - after one minute, if he hadn't stopped crying then there was usually something genuinely wrong. And the whining has turned into just being generally demanding and exhausting and intense and constantly active and yes, annoying.

All toddlers whine and sleep badly to some extent. It's normal. Gifted toddlers are often worse. But it gets better. In general, the first two years of parenthood sucked. Now it's still hard, but it gets easier.

Oh, and what might have also helped us get over the shitty 13 month old whining was using sign language with him. He loved being able to communicate with us and the whining got better once he learned the most important signs.
posted by pootler at 12:42 PM on January 23, 2007

i don't have kids, but my friends all do. they say baby sign language can really help ease this stage of whiny toddlerhood.
posted by twistofrhyme at 12:53 AM on January 24, 2007