Is my PowerBook only a paperweight now?
January 2, 2007 4:13 PM Subscribe
About 4 months ago, my beloved PowerBook got in the way of a cup of coffee. The geniuses at the Apple Store said that the hard drive was completely fried, that the computer has become a paperweight and none of the information can possibly be retrieved. They said if anyone could retreive the information, which was doubtful, it wasn't them and that it would probably cost me a thousand dollars or more. (More information...)
Unfortunately, there were a lot of things that I never had a chance to back up. Felt like my whole life was on there, so I put the poor thing in the closet until the pain subsided. Now I'm calm & thinking about trying again to see if anything can be done.
I live in the Silicon Valley so if there was ever a possibility of fixing it, I would imagine I'm in the right location to find them. Any suggestions or should I just take a deep breath and walk towards the white light?
Unfortunately, there were a lot of things that I never had a chance to back up. Felt like my whole life was on there, so I put the poor thing in the closet until the pain subsided. Now I'm calm & thinking about trying again to see if anything can be done.
I live in the Silicon Valley so if there was ever a possibility of fixing it, I would imagine I'm in the right location to find them. Any suggestions or should I just take a deep breath and walk towards the white light?
Disk recovery firms often work on a ransom basis. You send in your drive. They draw up a list of recoverable data by actually recovering the data. Then they send you the pinky of your beloved data, and tell you if you want to see the rest of it alive again, you'll have to pay them $XXXX.
It can't hurt to at least get a quote from someone like Ontrack, who will go to lengths far beyond anything Apple will do for you.
posted by Good Brain at 4:22 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
It can't hurt to at least get a quote from someone like Ontrack, who will go to lengths far beyond anything Apple will do for you.
posted by Good Brain at 4:22 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
BTW, when I suggest getting some quotes, I'm not suggesting sending the drive in.
posted by Good Brain at 4:26 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by Good Brain at 4:26 PM on January 2, 2007
It's very unlikely the drive is fried. I dumped a full glass wine on my GF's laptop keyboard with no ill effects.
However I followed these steps :
- I immediately pulled the power and the battery.
- Disassembled everything and vacuumed as much moisture as I could up.
- Then doused the effected area with rubbing alcohol, contact cleaner would probably have been better.
Flipped upside down and let air dry for 3 days.
The harddrive itself should be completely sealed, clean the leads off and buy an external enclosure, and pop it in - it should be fine.
For what it's worth, I live in SV too, if you get really desperate I can probably at least get your drive back in a few minutes.... shoot me an email.
posted by ill3 at 4:30 PM on January 2, 2007
However I followed these steps :
- I immediately pulled the power and the battery.
- Disassembled everything and vacuumed as much moisture as I could up.
- Then doused the effected area with rubbing alcohol, contact cleaner would probably have been better.
Flipped upside down and let air dry for 3 days.
The harddrive itself should be completely sealed, clean the leads off and buy an external enclosure, and pop it in - it should be fine.
For what it's worth, I live in SV too, if you get really desperate I can probably at least get your drive back in a few minutes.... shoot me an email.
posted by ill3 at 4:30 PM on January 2, 2007
As someone who spilled liquid (the first time soda, the second time wine) on her PowerBook, I mock your Apple Geniuses. Of course, my PowerBook only lost its display backlight which was easily (if expensively) fixable.
Do not give up. These laptops tend to be a great deal more sturdy than we think.
posted by gsh at 4:32 PM on January 2, 2007
Do not give up. These laptops tend to be a great deal more sturdy than we think.
posted by gsh at 4:32 PM on January 2, 2007
All the drives I've seen are rather well sealed. Unless you submerged the drive in liquid, or there was a magical controller failure that caused physical platter damage, I'd guess that all the data is still there. Get an external enclosure, stick the drive in there and see if another mac will recognize it.. could be as simple as that.
On preview, I forgot about all the circuits and stuff on the drives. I guess it could be ruined. I'd still try the enclosure thing first.
posted by aeighty at 4:32 PM on January 2, 2007
On preview, I forgot about all the circuits and stuff on the drives. I guess it could be ruined. I'd still try the enclosure thing first.
posted by aeighty at 4:32 PM on January 2, 2007
So how exactly do you know that the "drive was fried"? Did the booger-pickers at the Apple Store actually do a diagnostic on the drive?
A lot depends on how much of a soaking you gave the laptop - but it's likely that other boards were shorted first which hopefully cut power to the drive before any liquid could get to it.
I'm not sure about the layout of powerbooks, but I assume the harddrive is in a cavity underneath the keyboard and some other parts. I'd pull the drive out and examine it - the coffee may not have even touched it.
Granted, some sort of short or surge could have damaged the drive, but I give it a 50/50 chance that the hard drive WORKS and a 80/20 chance you're data is fine.
I would probably start by removing the drive from it's enclosure and install it in an external hard drive enclosure (USB or firewire) then hook to this to another computer to see if the drive "shows up."
Worse case scenario: a data recover firm can get your data back for a price.
My own anecdotal experience: I spilled an entire, large glass of water on my sony laptop (not know for their build quality.) I disassembled the laptop and blew the moisture out with a hair dryer - then I let it sit for a day and then blew it out again... it actually booted up just fine although the sound card was shot.
posted by wfrgms at 4:54 PM on January 2, 2007
A lot depends on how much of a soaking you gave the laptop - but it's likely that other boards were shorted first which hopefully cut power to the drive before any liquid could get to it.
I'm not sure about the layout of powerbooks, but I assume the harddrive is in a cavity underneath the keyboard and some other parts. I'd pull the drive out and examine it - the coffee may not have even touched it.
Granted, some sort of short or surge could have damaged the drive, but I give it a 50/50 chance that the hard drive WORKS and a 80/20 chance you're data is fine.
I would probably start by removing the drive from it's enclosure and install it in an external hard drive enclosure (USB or firewire) then hook to this to another computer to see if the drive "shows up."
Worse case scenario: a data recover firm can get your data back for a price.
My own anecdotal experience: I spilled an entire, large glass of water on my sony laptop (not know for their build quality.) I disassembled the laptop and blew the moisture out with a hair dryer - then I let it sit for a day and then blew it out again... it actually booted up just fine although the sound card was shot.
posted by wfrgms at 4:54 PM on January 2, 2007
If you are looking for a professional service, I swear by Drivesavers in Marin (Novato).
posted by goml at 4:57 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by goml at 4:57 PM on January 2, 2007
In (slight) defense of the apple guys, I've been in this situation before and it's amazing how many times somebody has data that they just CANNOT lose, at least until you tell them that it will cost $xxx (hundreds of dollars) to fix it, at which point all of a sudden the user doesn't think their data is all that important anymore.
This is a little true in this case, because any recovery operation is inevitably going to take some time. Unfortunately, if I remember correctly, the old Powerbooks aren't really that easy to take apart. If the OP doesn't want to do it herself, she probably will need to spend a couple of hundred dollars for somebody to take the machine apart and put the drive in an external box for her so she can plug it into a new machine and retrieve the data. (OP: any compentent tech can probably do this for you).
posted by ranglin at 5:36 PM on January 2, 2007
This is a little true in this case, because any recovery operation is inevitably going to take some time. Unfortunately, if I remember correctly, the old Powerbooks aren't really that easy to take apart. If the OP doesn't want to do it herself, she probably will need to spend a couple of hundred dollars for somebody to take the machine apart and put the drive in an external box for her so she can plug it into a new machine and retrieve the data. (OP: any compentent tech can probably do this for you).
posted by ranglin at 5:36 PM on January 2, 2007
Hard drives are not "sealed" and they can't be, to work. There is a small round unblockable "breather hole" in every hard drive, which is fitted with a porous filter that ideally allows small amounts of air to move in and out of the drive as needed, and yet keeps out dust. If a drive is submerged in liquid, water will definitely get into a hard drive, and because of the incredibly close tolerances between the platter and head mechanisms, eveny a teeny amount of liquid will eat a drive in short order. Even operation in conditions of very high humidity will shorten the life of most hard drives, due to the water vapor in humid air being effective in promoting corrision within the drive.
That said, spilling a cup of coffee into a PowerBook may not have created such a disaster, depending on the size of the cup of coffee. If it was a big ol' fresh, hot 24 oz mug o' junk, well, oopsie... If it was a half-drunk 6 oz standard cup of plain, cooled off black Lutheran dishwater, maybe things aren't hopeless.
Eventually, the only way to find out, is to disassemble the thing, inspect it, make sure it is dried out, and try firing it up, maybe piece by piece, as others have suggested. Since the data resides on the hard drive, it's worth working to recover that first, in a known good machine. But it sounds like that is beyond the direct capability of miss lynnster, so I'd suggest she look around for low cost help at an Apple User Group in her area.
I think if she'll walk into an AUG meeting, and sing the likeliest looking geek her blues (especially at someplace like that Lockheed Martin Macintosh User Group in Sunnyvale, although sadly, they aren't meeting in January as they are going to Macworld), especially the bit about the Geniuses saying it was hopeless, and there is maybe a 97% chance she's got a recovery voluteer team with PowerBooks and screwdrivers working on recovering her data, for free, in 10 minutes. At least she'll get a sympathetic ear, and maybe some good advice for backing up her data in future endeavors.
posted by paulsc at 5:47 PM on January 2, 2007
That said, spilling a cup of coffee into a PowerBook may not have created such a disaster, depending on the size of the cup of coffee. If it was a big ol' fresh, hot 24 oz mug o' junk, well, oopsie... If it was a half-drunk 6 oz standard cup of plain, cooled off black Lutheran dishwater, maybe things aren't hopeless.
Eventually, the only way to find out, is to disassemble the thing, inspect it, make sure it is dried out, and try firing it up, maybe piece by piece, as others have suggested. Since the data resides on the hard drive, it's worth working to recover that first, in a known good machine. But it sounds like that is beyond the direct capability of miss lynnster, so I'd suggest she look around for low cost help at an Apple User Group in her area.
I think if she'll walk into an AUG meeting, and sing the likeliest looking geek her blues (especially at someplace like that Lockheed Martin Macintosh User Group in Sunnyvale, although sadly, they aren't meeting in January as they are going to Macworld), especially the bit about the Geniuses saying it was hopeless, and there is maybe a 97% chance she's got a recovery voluteer team with PowerBooks and screwdrivers working on recovering her data, for free, in 10 minutes. At least she'll get a sympathetic ear, and maybe some good advice for backing up her data in future endeavors.
posted by paulsc at 5:47 PM on January 2, 2007
If you like to dinker pull the drive, stick it in another computer (or enclosure) and see what happens. My money says it is going to boot right up. If that does not work send the drive to Drive Savers. They did me right for under $200 which was cheap considering the data lost was invaluable... journal entries from the last 15 years. If this is one of the older PBs you can lift the keyboard off easy enough. The drive should be located to the left, cross your fingers, unplug and test.
posted by bkeene12 at 5:51 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by bkeene12 at 5:51 PM on January 2, 2007
This happened to a PowerBook at my old work. They spent over 10k trying to fix it. Nothing could be recovered.
posted by k8t at 6:08 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by k8t at 6:08 PM on January 2, 2007
FWIW, we sent my recently departed laptop hard drive to Ontrack, and it was worth every penny even though they said it was unrecoverable. I had SO MUCH STUFF on that thing, and it was absolutely maddening until someone told me there was absolutely, positively nothing to be done (and here's the bill). They actually tried swapping out bits and pieces of my dead drive with bits from a brand new one, and to quote the tech guy, "your drive kept eating the new stuff". I hadn't done a reallyreally good backup for more than 8 months prior to death, so I lost an awful lot of stuff I had done for our wedding. I feel like such a goddamned poster child for system backups
I can, at least, personally vouch for their service. IN EVENT OF DEATH, WOULD USE AGAIN!!++++
posted by ersatzkat at 6:14 PM on January 2, 2007
I can, at least, personally vouch for their service. IN EVENT OF DEATH, WOULD USE AGAIN!!++++
posted by ersatzkat at 6:14 PM on January 2, 2007
It can't hurt to at least get a quote from someone like Ontrack, who will go to lengths far beyond anything Apple will do for you.
Seeing as how Apple isn't in the data recovery business, I'd think so, yeah.
posted by secret about box at 6:24 PM on January 2, 2007
Seeing as how Apple isn't in the data recovery business, I'd think so, yeah.
posted by secret about box at 6:24 PM on January 2, 2007
Tacos: " or it costing $1k are pretty low."
You're right. It may very well be $9,000. Data recovery services are expensive. Last time I dealt with Drivesavers, it cost $150 to just do a diagnostic. They were unable to recover one bit of data because of the way the laptop hard drive was manufactured.
I'm also in the Silicon Valley and I deal with dead machines quite often. The Genius Bar guys weren't exactly off track. Apple doesn't do data recovery, and they'd end up referring you to Drivesavers or Ontrack anyway.
posted by drstein at 7:42 PM on January 2, 2007
You're right. It may very well be $9,000. Data recovery services are expensive. Last time I dealt with Drivesavers, it cost $150 to just do a diagnostic. They were unable to recover one bit of data because of the way the laptop hard drive was manufactured.
I'm also in the Silicon Valley and I deal with dead machines quite often. The Genius Bar guys weren't exactly off track. Apple doesn't do data recovery, and they'd end up referring you to Drivesavers or Ontrack anyway.
posted by drstein at 7:42 PM on January 2, 2007
1. buy a cheap 2.5" firewire external hard drive enclosure (or, even better, borrow one from a friend).
2. Pull the drive (using instructions from ifixit).
3. Put the drive in the enclosure, see if it works.
In my experience, this will probably do the trick - I have seen dozens of liquid spills on mac laptops, and only one of those caused any damage to the HD. It's worth a shot, because if this doesn't fix it, now you know that it will be very expensive. Also, if it works - hey, you've got your data, plus a semi-new external hard drive! Perfect for all those future backups!
posted by sluggo at 8:14 PM on January 2, 2007
2. Pull the drive (using instructions from ifixit).
3. Put the drive in the enclosure, see if it works.
In my experience, this will probably do the trick - I have seen dozens of liquid spills on mac laptops, and only one of those caused any damage to the HD. It's worth a shot, because if this doesn't fix it, now you know that it will be very expensive. Also, if it works - hey, you've got your data, plus a semi-new external hard drive! Perfect for all those future backups!
posted by sluggo at 8:14 PM on January 2, 2007
What I'm surprised no one has pointed out is that if the liquid caused physical damage to the drive platter or heads, and replacing the circut board works, starting the drive up again might cause even more damage.
Most good quality data recovery places will give you a free no-risk quote, so it might be a good idea to have them look at it and check it for physical harm before proceeding with your own data-recovery process.
posted by dantekgeek at 11:59 PM on January 2, 2007
Most good quality data recovery places will give you a free no-risk quote, so it might be a good idea to have them look at it and check it for physical harm before proceeding with your own data-recovery process.
posted by dantekgeek at 11:59 PM on January 2, 2007
Just a FYI. You might not want to touch the drive and have it checked out by a data recovery specialist.
Powering it up may cause even more damage.
posted by mphuie at 12:25 AM on January 3, 2007
Powering it up may cause even more damage.
posted by mphuie at 12:25 AM on January 3, 2007
"Most good quality data recovery places will give you a free no-risk quote"
Not Drivesavers, unless they've recently changed their pricing scheme. Give them a call and ask. Last time I sent them a drive, there was a $150 diagnostic fee.
posted by drstein at 5:11 PM on January 4, 2007
Not Drivesavers, unless they've recently changed their pricing scheme. Give them a call and ask. Last time I sent them a drive, there was a $150 diagnostic fee.
posted by drstein at 5:11 PM on January 4, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would try the following:
1) take out the hard drive, see if it actually got hit by coffee. if it did, clean it with deionized water and let it dry thoroughly. Then put it in an external drive enclosure and see if it shows up.
if it didn't show up, then:
2) buy an identical hard drive, and swap the logic board from the new one to the old one, then put it in an external enclosure and see if it shows up.
If at any point it showed up, but the data wasn't all there, I would consider the various home data recovery softwares. (I don't know which ones are good these days).
If I still had nothing, I'd consider expensive, professional recovery, if I really cared about what was on the drive. After all, $2k doesn't seem like so much if it contains hundreds or thousands of hours of your work on it.
Best luck!
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 4:21 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]