Etiquette Question

February 10, 2004 3:57 AM

i want to be polite. Is there an alternative honorific to Miss and Ma'am which is age indiscriminate?

i know that the general protocol is to call women older than you ma'am and women younger miss. But what what is the proper honorific when you are not sure? My goal is go not offend...

posted by quin to society & culture (16 comments total)

I think you should stick to using Miss and Ma'am. These days I doubt many people would know what an 'honorific' is, let alone which one to use...
posted by snowgoon at 4:20 AM on February 10, 2004

If you don't wish to offend, use Miss, unless you see a wedding ring or a child in tow, or if the woman is obviously over fifty. Better yet, don't use an honorific.

I have no qualifications whatever for giving this advice.
posted by cbrody at 4:30 AM on February 10, 2004

I find that women prefer Senator, Your Honor, Your Excellency, and, of course, President.
posted by theora55 at 4:58 AM on February 10, 2004

What's wrong with miz?

(I'm forty-five and hate ma'am because it makes me feel old, but since I live in the south I'm stuck with it.)

Actually, I think the answer to quin's question would be regionally variable.
posted by konolia at 5:44 AM on February 10, 2004

I use Ms, but I hate it. Job titles, or full names are preferred.

French is so much easier: Madame is classy, Mademoiselle is flirty (or for girls).
posted by bonehead at 5:58 AM on February 10, 2004

I'm 31 and hate ma'am becaues it makes me feel old, but I'm also in the south and so stuck with it, too. I was in my late 20s when I moved here and was aghast the first time some scrawny grocery clerk asked, "Would you like me to take these out to your car, ma'am?" Ma'am and the suggestion that I'm feeble and can't carry my own junk all in one fell swoop! But I just wasn't used to that kind of polite. (Grocers in the US south get their panties in a real twist if you try to help bag your own groceries, too! I've seen baggers get hollered at by managers because I decided to bag my own groceries instead of sitting there staring at the cashier.)

But miss and ma'am are better than "Hey, lady!" so I say stick with what you're doing and err on the side of miss. It's so rare that people bother to use miss and ma'am to begin with, if you happen to get it wrong with the lady in question, she'll be too flabbergasted at your politeness to notice you used the wrong term.

On preview: bonehead, it's tough to use the person's whole name if you don't know it.
posted by jennyb at 6:08 AM on February 10, 2004

I hate both, and prefer Ms., but I'm on the west coast.

I'd try dropping it--say "excuse me" or "pardon me" and don't use miss or ma'am at all.
posted by frykitty at 6:27 AM on February 10, 2004

The problem with Ms. (which is what I prefer obviously) is - how do you say it? It's easy to write it, but you'd never hear someone say "Hey Ms., you dropped something." That just sounds funny. So, you're stuck with Miss or Ma'am.
posted by MsVader at 6:45 AM on February 10, 2004

i'm an attorney, in my 30's, in the midwest of the USA, and i don't particularly mind either "miss" or "ma'am" as a way for a stranger to get my attention when i've dropped something or left my gloves on the train or am standing in their way or am being helped at the check-out. though i do prefer "miss" and find "missus" annoying.

to my ear, a distinction between "miss" and "mz" invariably sounds snide. for introductions, i don't use honorifics.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:00 AM on February 10, 2004

It's not that hard to say Ms. 'miz' is how I say it, pretty much.
posted by stoneegg21 at 9:05 AM on February 10, 2004

The difficulty is that etiquette varies by region. I would be horrified if someone in Los Angeles called me Miss OR Ma'am, but I have come to expect to be referred to as Ma'am here in Kansas City, as it seems that only well brought-up teenagers use the honorific here. Adults generally can't gauge my age, and tend to drop it altogether for politeness' sake. I am from California, however, and was raised NOT to use the honorific, because in SoCal's youth-obsessed culture, any potential reference to a person's possible age is considered gauche.

I work at a café part time, and use "Miss" almost exclusively with customers unless a ring or a child is very evident. Seventy year old ladies seem to think it's flattering rather than disrespectful, but it does go against traditional etiquette. I refer to all gentlemen as "Sir", even the thirteen year old boys who blush and snicker when they hear it.

I'm not saying it's proper (and Emily Post would never condone it) but it seems to work so far.
posted by annathea at 9:55 AM on February 10, 2004

I never use either, although I do jokingly call men and women sir, a la Seinfeld. I find that "politeness" often isn't, particularly with regard to being a "gentleman."
posted by callmejay at 10:07 AM on February 10, 2004

It's the 21st century. I say abandon them all as superfluous and dated (and unintentionally humorous in some parts of the country).

But then, I thought it was stupid as early as age 5, when I flat out refused to call my teachers "ma'am" in Louisiana. ("Do you want a cookie?" "No." "No, WHAT?" (expecting "no, ma'am") "No, I do not want a cookie" or "No, thank you.")
posted by rushmc at 10:43 AM on February 10, 2004

I never could bring myself to use these terms, even when I worked in the service industry. They just felt too subordinate. I got away with it because they aren't that much used in Southern Ontario.
posted by orange swan at 11:07 AM on February 10, 2004

But then, I thought it was stupid as early as age 5, when I flat out refused to call my teachers "ma'am" in Louisiana. ("Do you want a cookie?" "No." "No, WHAT?" (expecting "no, ma'am") "No, I do not want a cookie" or "No, thank you.")

In the South that's about as bad as flashing a boob in the Super Bowl. (For any of you with small children planning to move to the region...)
posted by konolia at 11:26 AM on February 10, 2004

I never could bring myself to use these terms, even when I worked in the service industry. They just felt too subordinate. I got away with it because they aren't that much used in Southern Ontario.

Quite right. They're reserved for one thing only:

Dealing with asshole customers.

If you are EVER called "Sir" or "Ma'am" or even "Miss" on the phone here, it's because the person is getting REALLY pissed off at you. Like 9 on a scale of 10 pissed off, you know.

I've only ever used "Sir" three times.

First time was an idiot who wouldn't accept that windows 95 and an 80 Gig drive won't easily work together, and wanted a return because of that (FAT CHANCE). He said he'd never shop here and tell everyone not to. Thank God he did, because once he left, we had fewer stupid customers, and more intelligent ones.

Second time was someone who I did a free satellite install for that got beligerrent and suggested I didn't know what I was doing because his FTA satellite went out during the snow (no shit) and wanted same-day repairs. I actually banned him from the shop, he became so annoying. Never seen him for a while (good thing).

Last time was someone I argued with about how to test something. He'd modified his own game console, and was angry because I removed his modchip to test why it was bust. Him and I eventually worked things out and are on good terms now.

So, yeah, if you call Southern Ontario and get called Sir/Miss/Ma'am, you're in for some rocky road.

(end exposition)
posted by shepd at 11:43 AM on February 10, 2004