Better soup-making
November 25, 2006 6:07 AM Subscribe
SoupFilter: Why do soups taste better after aging?
In the case of soups, for example, I throw batches of a fennel minestrone I've justed cooked into the fridge. Over the course of three days, the soup tastes progressively better. I also place one batch into the freezer, thaw it out a month later, and it is very easily the best of the batch. I've tried this with other soups I've made (a recent tomato, basil and cheese soup) and obtain the same result.
• What chemical processes take place (in soup) which improve the flavor of the end product?
• Are there strategies with the storage and cooking processes to improve efficiency, both in terms of speed and amount of flavor extracted from the various ingredients?
• Also, what general types of soups can or cannot be safely frozen to preserve flavor (without causing food poisoning)?
In the case of soups, for example, I throw batches of a fennel minestrone I've justed cooked into the fridge. Over the course of three days, the soup tastes progressively better. I also place one batch into the freezer, thaw it out a month later, and it is very easily the best of the batch. I've tried this with other soups I've made (a recent tomato, basil and cheese soup) and obtain the same result.
• What chemical processes take place (in soup) which improve the flavor of the end product?
• Are there strategies with the storage and cooking processes to improve efficiency, both in terms of speed and amount of flavor extracted from the various ingredients?
• Also, what general types of soups can or cannot be safely frozen to preserve flavor (without causing food poisoning)?
I'm not sure what the chemical process for this looks like, but basically what you're experiencing is that the longer the ingredients sit together, the more their flavors are imparted into the broth. This intensifies the character of the soup. If the ingredients and spices are well-chosen and complimentary, 2 or 3 days will do astonishing things to the overall intensity of the flavors.
The same thing happens with chili. As far as cooking time goes, after you have brought your soup/chili to the initial boiling, i will benefit greatly from an extended simering. Reduce the heat to a minimal level and cover the soup, then allow it to sit (remember to stir) for 2-3 hours.
As far as freezing goes, you should be able to freeze pretty much any soup, pasta sauce, or chili safely, as long it is frozen quickly enough and to a sufficiently cold temperature. Your household freezer should be more than adequate in both regards. However, if you are concerned about meat safety, you can prepare a soup without meat and simply cook the meat seperately while you thaw the soup. Then add the meat to the soup and let it simmer as above.
posted by baphomet at 6:36 AM on November 25, 2006
The same thing happens with chili. As far as cooking time goes, after you have brought your soup/chili to the initial boiling, i will benefit greatly from an extended simering. Reduce the heat to a minimal level and cover the soup, then allow it to sit (remember to stir) for 2-3 hours.
As far as freezing goes, you should be able to freeze pretty much any soup, pasta sauce, or chili safely, as long it is frozen quickly enough and to a sufficiently cold temperature. Your household freezer should be more than adequate in both regards. However, if you are concerned about meat safety, you can prepare a soup without meat and simply cook the meat seperately while you thaw the soup. Then add the meat to the soup and let it simmer as above.
posted by baphomet at 6:36 AM on November 25, 2006
I've always assumed that the increase in flavour quality in some dishes (not just soups: curries are a particular group that seem to improve with age) is due to moving closer to a point of equilibrium of flavour mixing.
In other words, the flavours escape from some crushed and cooked herbs into the dish slowly so after a day or 2 there is greater dispersal of individual flavours.
This will also mean that the overall effect changes. 1:1 garlic to thyme (by way of made up example) may not generate as much aroma/flavour but when the thyme has had errr time to dissipate and it gets to a 1:2 ratio the overall effect might be a flavour 3 times as strong, if that makes sense.
The dispersal of flavours still happens in the freezer but more slowly.
Milk products in soups might make them curdle when frozen and won't last as long as minestrone for eg.
posted by peacay at 6:38 AM on November 25, 2006
In other words, the flavours escape from some crushed and cooked herbs into the dish slowly so after a day or 2 there is greater dispersal of individual flavours.
This will also mean that the overall effect changes. 1:1 garlic to thyme (by way of made up example) may not generate as much aroma/flavour but when the thyme has had errr time to dissipate and it gets to a 1:2 ratio the overall effect might be a flavour 3 times as strong, if that makes sense.
The dispersal of flavours still happens in the freezer but more slowly.
Milk products in soups might make them curdle when frozen and won't last as long as minestrone for eg.
posted by peacay at 6:38 AM on November 25, 2006
Don't have my copy here, but if it's been investigated scientifically, McGee (amazon link) will have something to say about it. This book is the bible, koran and alpha->omega of all sci related food questions.
posted by lalochezia at 8:39 AM on November 25, 2006
posted by lalochezia at 8:39 AM on November 25, 2006
Any soup will be *safe* to freeze and won't cause food poisoning when it comes back out.
Cream or milk based soups and chowders will generally not taste very good, though, since they don't reheat all that well. If you're making a pureed soup that you plan to finish with cream, put the puree in the freezer and finish with cream when you're ready to actually serve it.
Pasta and rice will both break down a lot from being frozen and reheated. Either undercook them considerably and allow them to finish cooking when you reheat, or leave them out of the freezer batches and add them in when you reheat the rest of the coup.
Finally, just to be clear (it looks like this is what you're doing based on your original post, but I'm not sure), the batch you're putting in the freezer should, if possible, go in the first day. Don't eat the soup for a few days and then decide to freeze the remainder.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:49 AM on November 25, 2006
Cream or milk based soups and chowders will generally not taste very good, though, since they don't reheat all that well. If you're making a pureed soup that you plan to finish with cream, put the puree in the freezer and finish with cream when you're ready to actually serve it.
Pasta and rice will both break down a lot from being frozen and reheated. Either undercook them considerably and allow them to finish cooking when you reheat, or leave them out of the freezer batches and add them in when you reheat the rest of the coup.
Finally, just to be clear (it looks like this is what you're doing based on your original post, but I'm not sure), the batch you're putting in the freezer should, if possible, go in the first day. Don't eat the soup for a few days and then decide to freeze the remainder.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:49 AM on November 25, 2006
his book is the bible, koran and alpha->omega of all sci related food questions.
Except that McGee doesn't cite his sources most of the time, so the opinions contained therein are only as good as whatever you might read on AskMe (and not free).
posted by rxrfrx at 11:21 AM on November 26, 2006
Except that McGee doesn't cite his sources most of the time, so the opinions contained therein are only as good as whatever you might read on AskMe (and not free).
posted by rxrfrx at 11:21 AM on November 26, 2006
Any bacteria that might contaminate soup prior to freezing would have to be introduced after the soup came below 140 degrees F. Unfortunately, you can fairly easily introduce Clostridium botulinum into your food, as it is present in the general outdoor environment (in soil). Acidic soups, such as those you mentioned, are unlikely to support the growth of botulinum, but there are at least eight other common microbes to worry about. However, as long as you cool your leftover soup quickly, you should be safe from bacteria when freezing soup. Just put the soup pot, uncovered, in a sink full of ice water (deep enough to almost cover the sides of the pot) until it is very cold, then transfer it to the freezer in sealed containers. If you want to be absolutely sure, go get a thermometer and a timer: the soup should be at or below 40 degrees F within 30 minutes.
Milk- or cream-based soups will readily pick up off flavors if frozen for very long, depending on how clean your freezer is and what else you store in it.
There's a bit about milk physics here.
There are some tips on making good stock in this article, and although it is silent on the issue of flavor mingling, you might be able to infer something from it.
An old(ish) French treatise, translated: The physiology of taste
or
Transcendental gastronomy. It's topical, but more fascinating than applicable.
P.S. I did not render that eBook. It is a coincidence.
posted by owhydididoit at 8:00 PM on December 1, 2006
Milk- or cream-based soups will readily pick up off flavors if frozen for very long, depending on how clean your freezer is and what else you store in it.
There's a bit about milk physics here.
There are some tips on making good stock in this article, and although it is silent on the issue of flavor mingling, you might be able to infer something from it.
An old(ish) French treatise, translated: The physiology of taste
or
Transcendental gastronomy. It's topical, but more fascinating than applicable.
P.S. I did not render that eBook. It is a coincidence.
posted by owhydididoit at 8:00 PM on December 1, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
The flavors meld.
Are there strategies with the storage and cooking processes to improve efficiency, both in terms of speed and amount of flavor extracted from the various ingredients?
Have stocks on hand (veg, chicken, seafood), either freshly made then frozen, or store-bought stocks that keep in the pantry. You will then have a flavorful base to make soups in a hurry.
posted by LoriFLA at 6:29 AM on November 25, 2006