Do you retell other people's remarks?

November 12, 2006 10:20 PM

Do you retell other people's clever remarks as your own?

Suppose you read or hear somewhere, maybe on TV, maybe from a friend, some kind of a clever or insightful observation on a current event, or something likely to come up in a conversation. Do you ever pass on these observations in a conversation without mentioning that you got it from somewhere, when talking to people who likely didn't hear it from the source?

This is different than passing on a proper joke (two guys walk into a bar, etc.), because what I'm talking about are comments and remarks that you could work into a conversation and more easily pass off as your own, possibly even improving on the original. These aren't necessarily quotes, maybe novel analogies, comparisons between interesting statistics, or observations on a trend of current events.

I catch myself saying a lot, "I saw this thing on the web," or, "I saw this guy on TV" when retelling it, and I don't know if I'm just really weird about attributing stuff, or if just assimilating material like this and repeating it is the norm.

At what point does one cross the line into being a hack that just parrots other people's stuff?

posted by Brian James to society & culture (39 comments total)

I cite jokes too. It's understandable if someone doesn't, since you don't always want to break the rhythm of the conversation leading up to the clever remark with "I read on a website . . .", but I feel like it's still necessary. When someone tells me something fantastically funny, I go away thinking they what a witty person they are, and then find out later they were just passing off material I feel kind of disappointed and sad.
posted by schroedinger at 10:28 PM on November 12, 2006

I generally cite. A joke, as opposed to an anecdote, I usually don't however, though I will usually afterwards tell where I heard it if prompted.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:33 PM on November 12, 2006

I almost always cite, but I wait until after I've made the comment. Leading up to it with "I heard something great the other day..." or any of its brethern is usually a recipe for glazed eyes and somewhat disappointed responses.
posted by tkolar at 10:34 PM on November 12, 2006

I "sample" people all the time. There's a huge grey area betwen citation and common wisdom. I think of it as pushing the former toward the latter for ideas I like.
posted by rhizome at 11:09 PM on November 12, 2006 [1 favorite]

IMHO, in the matter of slavish imitation, man is the monkey's superior all the time. The average man is destitute of independence of opinion. He is not interested in contriving a opinion of his own, by study and reflection, but is only anxious to find out what his neighbor's opinion is and slavishly adopt it.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:17 PM on November 12, 2006 [5 favorites]

I also tend to cite after the comment ("Oh, I heard it on such-and-such"), particularly so if someone appreciates the remark.

I work with a woman who regularly repeats my (own) quietly muttered, snarky observations as her own in other meetings. It's peculiar to later hear that folks enjoyed these comments that she (I!) made.
posted by vespertine at 11:31 PM on November 12, 2006

I generally won't consciously "steal" jokes, but I will occasionally catch myself paraphrasing an opinion or observation I read in a review or online or something, without thinking about it, because I have internalized it. It's like, I'm trying to pass off Roger Ebert's opinion as my own; it's more that I remember the point, but I might not remember where I read/heard it.
posted by SoftRain at 11:43 PM on November 12, 2006

I try to cite, even when I butcher the quote (which is most of the time).

I have a friend who I realize tended to "steal from the best," and I wasn't really sure what to make of him when I realized many of his insights were carefully selected, rather than carefully crafted.
posted by Good Brain at 11:45 PM on November 12, 2006

weapons-grade pandemonium (and twain) for the win!
posted by anildash at 12:03 AM on November 13, 2006

Lately, I've also been thinking about this same situation. Just like you I find myself saying things like, "Hey, I read about this on the web/in a book" quite often. A while ago I read a book review of Malcolm Gladwell's Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking on a website called blacktable.com (see, I'm doing it already!) and I was really struck by the opening paragraphs:

We all know people like this. We see them at parties. We get forwarded emails from them. They're the ones who love to butt into any conversation with comments like, "You know I saw a program on PBS about that" or "The New York Times did a really fascinating article that touched on this very same topic." And on occasion, we are that person ourselves; we read something that offers a unique perspective on modern life, and we instantly want to share it with everyone else. Aren't we smart?

Many outlets exist for such dinner-party conversation material: the op-ed page, public radio, alternative weeklies. But perhaps the most widely recognized in our culture is The New Yorker, that bastion of witty, erudite reporting and opinion. Generation after generation of young people has taken that intimidating step into intellectual adulthood by subscribing to the magazine, hoping to test their smarts and sophistication against this tony publication's. (Or, hell, maybe we just want to convince other people that we're all cultured and stuff.)

When I first read this, I thought, "Holy Crap! He's describing me!" and so I now try to avoid this kind of behaviour.

I think if you read something and you're able to critically evaluate it and form your own opinion about whether it makes sense or not then you are definitely not a hack. On the other hand, if you find that you easily get stumped when people raise basic objections to what you're talking about then you might be falling into hack territory.
posted by Jasper Friendly Bear at 12:36 AM on November 13, 2006

Frank Harris to Oscar Wilde: "I wish I had said that."
OW: "You will Frank, you will."
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:49 AM on November 13, 2006 [2 favorites]

I normally cite, but once blatantly stole a trivia Team Name.
One group used "The lost athletes of Sierra Leone" (just after said athletes had done a disappearing act here in Oz) at one pub, and I thought it was sufficiently funny/clever to use at another pub (the following night at a different part of the city), and they gave me a free jug of beer for "Best Trivia Team Name"!
Always felt a bit guilty about that.
posted by kisch mokusch at 1:20 AM on November 13, 2006

I steal liberally, but attribute post-comment. I have a breadth of familiarity with cultural references that I also catch people commenting without attributing, quite frequently.

That always pisses me off, because it's one thing to steal a joke, it's another to steal a joke and not follow up with a "yeah, I kinda stole that from _______ ". You don't lose the humor value, but you get bonus points for then attributing- after the laughter- the source so you don't seem like a hack. I think any non-attribution is 'hack' work, since it costs nothing even to the conversational flow to simply acknowledge that you were cribbing from another source, after the fact.
posted by hincandenza at 1:30 AM on November 13, 2006

I cite to the point of citing myself if I've previously made the same remark ("I was talking to my father the other day, and I said...," even when that context is totally irrelevant). I'm trying to stop doing that, because even I find it annoying, and I'm not sure why I do it.

With articles or ideas from other people I also cite, but I think that I tend to use those mostly as jumping off points for conversations. "I read this article in the Times, which said X, which made me think of Y..." and then I tend to stay with Y. In those cases, I think I cite because I can often be a bit abstract, or launch into ideas that have, I guess, intuitive and not always obvious connections to the source material, and I've had friends request that I start by grounding those ideas in reality so that it's easier to follow what I'm talking about.

I try to stay away from just flat-out retelling, unless I'm specifically looking for my conversational partner's reaction to the ideas presented in something I read. (I don't always succeed with that, but I do try.)

If it's simply a clever remark that I want to repeat, I'm trying to move toward either citing the author by name or else just saying "I saw (or heard) someone saying X" and not getting overly bogged down in naming the medium.
posted by occhiblu at 1:33 AM on November 13, 2006

I get all my best material from MetaFilter.
posted by fixedgear at 2:17 AM on November 13, 2006

It seems like pretty much everything I have to say in the last few years is prefaced by "I read on the Internet that..."

And whenever anyone asks me "Where did you hear about that?" the answer is "on the Internet"

So, if that counts as attributing sources, yes, I attribute. Nobody has an original idea these days, I say, unless they are chained up in a cave. (as per Plato)
posted by Brave New Meatbomb at 2:17 AM on November 13, 2006

Depends on how old the quip is.

I try to be more of a tomb-looter than a purse-snatcher.
posted by furiousthought at 2:42 AM on November 13, 2006

Do you retell other people's clever remarks as your own?

No, and I never really liked other people who quote, wheter jokes or quotes, cited or not.

I am thinking particularly of a guy I used to know who was always spouting jokes he'd heard on various cable channel stand-up shows, a guy who laughed and laughed at his own [sic] jokes, but generally it is tedious and annoying to listen to anyone be a puppet. A quote or joke dropped into conversation with a purpose usually comes across as a bit of boilerplate from some old Toastmasters handbook, and is often used to try to buttress an argument erroneously, as if wedging a Mark Twain one-liner about lawyers into the conversation somehow makes your argument about lawyers more valid.
posted by pracowity at 3:24 AM on November 13, 2006

I am completely guilty of stealing, and some of the time not citing my source. Pathetic, I know. I do it all the time.

Just the other night I stole a line about drinking from my husband's cousin and used it as my own. It got lots of laughs.

I remember once washing my hands in a movie theater sink. The water was heavily chlorinated and the fumes were noxious. I quipped "eau de swimming pool", and got chuckles from my friends. I am not that clever-- I stole it from a Margaret Atwood novel.
posted by LoriFLA at 5:25 AM on November 13, 2006

I suppose this is somewhat similarly related; though I usually cite lines post-hoc, I'll sometimes tweak anecdotes to make them flow better. This usually occurs when I hear a story from a friend of a friend or read an anecdote online. Among most acquaintences the story will have happened to "my friend," cutting out the additional degrees of separation.
posted by craven_morhead at 6:04 AM on November 13, 2006

I sometimes give made up attributions to quips I have thought up myself just to lend them gravitas.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 6:28 AM on November 13, 2006

I used to cite things, but then I found people get way to distracted by something like "Who is this Katie? I don't know this Katie! Why are you telling me about this Katie?" when all I'm doing is trying to provide a source for what I'm saying. So now often I don't.
posted by dagnyscott at 6:29 AM on November 13, 2006

I've heard a person or two using one of my sayings.

I thought it was pretty slimey, because it's not even a joke proper, whose purpose is to encourage humour in the world. It was a little clever conversational twist, whose purpose is to bolster my speaking ability.

Needless to say, I kind of trash talk these folks and don't hang out with them anymore. I would hate to hear something clever and then upon reciting it again, realize it was stolen! ;)
posted by shownomercy at 6:30 AM on November 13, 2006

I do sometimes and always cite. And if I ever find out someone is a non-citer, my esteem for them drops greatly. Stealing what other people say to make yourself sound smart is one of the most pathetic things ever.
posted by dame at 6:49 AM on November 13, 2006

I don't worry too much about jokes; I consider humor to be public domain. If the person I heard the joke from is right there, I make them tell it; otherwise I'll just tell it. I find that joke-telling is so personal that two folks can tell the same basic joke, and if they're both good at it, it'll seem original each time.

With anecdotes, I'll cite unless doing so really messes up the flow of the story -- I don't figure that's the interesting part, so I'll try to simplify the story of how the anecdote came to me or if it's really hard, leave it out. But if leaving off the attribution implies wittiness on my part when I wasn't even part of the story, then I'm always careful to attribute -- I'm usually telling the anecdote to make a point and maybe get a laugh, not to give a false impression of my own cleverness.
posted by nickmark at 7:21 AM on November 13, 2006

But what about expressions? I mostly copy expressions that I have heard that are amusing to me. If I use a three word expression in conversation, is one suppossed to say, "My husband's cousin said that the other night?" That kills the mood.
posted by LoriFLA at 7:23 AM on November 13, 2006

Nobody has an original idea these days

Strike "these days"—nobody ever has an original idea. (I'm not talking about scientific theories or whatever, I'm talking about the normal currency of human interaction.) That brilliant quip you heard Katie make? She got it from Fred, who read it in a book, and the author of that book read it in another book, whose author hung out with a witty university crowd which stole liberally from the classics... In short, it's pretty silly to worry about this, either in the "am I evil for not attibuting?" sense or the "I won't speak to anyone I know doesn't attribute" sense. Use your head: if you got it from Katie and you like Katie and the people you're talking to know her and you wouldn't want it to get back to Katie that you've been swiping her material, then say you got it from Katie. If you read it in the New Yorker or heard it from some guy in a bar or "saw it on the internet," then for chrissakes just use it. You think Oscar Wilde made up all his own material? Human culture consists of repeated theft, or "appropriation" if you prefer. If we all had to make up our own material or shut up, the world would be a silent and dreary place.

Really, nobody wants to hear a constant stream of attributions. They just want to hear interesting/funny stuff. If you provide it, you're doing a good thing. Enough with the trumped-up guilt. You want something to feel guilty about, go rob a blind orphan.
posted by languagehat at 7:35 AM on November 13, 2006 [1 favorite]

IMHO, in the matter of slavish imitation, man is the monkey's superior all the time. The average man is destitute of independence of opinion. He is not interested in contriving a opinion of his own, by study and reflection, but is only anxious to find out what his neighbour's opinion is and slavishly adopt it.
posted by brighton at 7:38 AM on November 13, 2006

That brilliant quip you heard Katie make? She got it from Fred, who read it in a book, and the author of that book read it in another book, whose author hung out with a witty university crowd which stole liberally from the classics...

well - but we all know how different it feels when a funny phrase just occurs to you, or even just comes out in the stream of conversation, versus when something you specifically heard or read seems relevant. I have been wondering recently about whether to repeat my own "material" - ie, if I make a funny comment in one context, and then it seems appropriate again a week later with a different crowd, is it lame to use it again? I do that sometimes, especially if I feel like it wasn't appreciated the first time, but I feel kinda crap about it...

Yes, there is nothing new under the sun - and yet the world's made of living things, not fossils. No thought is truly originary, but each individual adds their own input, and the small novelty of spontaneous articulation is what keeps things interesting. (I could quote Emerson a dozen times to say that more beautifully than I just did, but still I would not say I first "got" it from him. Many thoughts are universal enough that we needn't assume a joke or thought was "taken" - like that colbert/ze frank donut scandal, sometimes two people have the same idea)

I say your own thoughts first, then attribute - though I agree, not via meandering preface or dull exposition. Try to just throw in a light reference. And perhaps generally try not to quote others so regularly that the references will become tedious...
posted by mdn at 8:01 AM on November 13, 2006

If the quip gets a strong reaction one way or the other, I give credit. If it gets a big laugh, I feel guilty and say that it wasn't mine. If it gets no reaction, I blame it on wherever I heard it from.
posted by hootch at 8:01 AM on November 13, 2006

It seems to me that this is the fundamental part of the question:

At what point does one cross the line into being a hack that just parrots other people's stuff?

If the entirety, or majority, of your clever remarks are stolen, you need to rethink being clever. I tend to cite when I steal because I don't steal all that much.
posted by occhiblu at 8:02 AM on November 13, 2006

Yeah, I'm not talking about general ideas; I'm talking about (somewhat) precise phrasing. And if you are taking people's precise phrasing a lot, you are being a pretentious 'tard. And I don't like hanging out with pretententious 'tards.

If the entirety, or majority, of your clever remarks are stolen, you need to rethink being clever. I tend to cite when I steal because I don't steal all that much.

Just wanted to see that again.
posted by dame at 8:47 AM on November 13, 2006

I'm pretty hardcore about citing (and sourcing) anecdote length material, but just flowing remarks?

Hell, no. I'm not a professional comedian; they aren't a paying audience.
posted by baylink at 8:53 AM on November 13, 2006

If the entirety, or majority, of your clever remarks are stolen, you need to rethink being clever.

I agree with this statement.

When Ray Barone says to Debra, "I wanna sex you up", should he then cite the band Color Me Badd?

I often hear myself saying, "I read on the Internet, or I read an article..", but little humorous sayings or expressions--even if they aren't commonly heard-- I usually don't cite. Who does?
posted by LoriFLA at 9:54 AM on November 13, 2006

Nobody has an original idea these days

true :) not even Shakespeare himself cited!

As was normal in the period, Shakespeare based many of his plays on the work of other playwrights and recycled older stories and historical material
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare%27s_plays#Source_material_of_plays

Nothing wrong with passing old material as your own IMO, just so long as you improve on it, and you die before you're found out!
posted by derbs at 11:58 AM on November 13, 2006

It's a risky proposition--not citing that is--especially if you can't keep straight who told you what.

One of the oddest moments between two of my close friends began like this:

The Brain(speaking to a crowd at a party): Once I got so stoned that I woke up on the floor of a bathroom I didn't recognize, convinced that it was 1929. I was petrified by the prospect of opening the door, because I wouldn't know how to talk and act like it was 1929, and my clothes would reveal that I wasn't from that era. I stayed in the bathroom for hours.

Ziggy: What are your talking about? That happened to me!

Long, awkward silence...
posted by umbú at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2006

"When Ray Barone says to Debra, "I wanna sex you up", should he then cite the band Color Me Badd? "

I always cite Color Me Badd when I offer to sex someone up. "As the great R&B combo said..."

I've stopped hanging out with people over this, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back with somebody who was my best friend in high school. He started telling a story that had actually happened to me to me and then argued with me over it.
I try to cite, but frequently forget where I heard things. When it's a story or longer set-up, I almost always do. When it's just a phrase, rarely, as often part of the humor of the phrase is the shared reference.
Sometimes it's weird because some of my friends remember things that I've said for far longer than I do, and they'll cite it in front of me and I'll have no idea what they're talking about. "Remember that time at Taco Bell when you were talking about the bean taint?"
"No, not at all."
This is especcially true of high school friends. So while I like that they credit me for the riff, if I knew you in high school you can pretty much use whatever I said then now without attribution, guys. I won't remember it.
posted by klangklangston at 1:21 PM on November 13, 2006

My step-cousin-in-law told me she met her then-boyfriend (now ex) "The old fasioned way -- on the Internet," and I sometimes use that quip in reference to my husband without attribution when meeting new people.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 4:37 PM on November 13, 2006

I usually say, "If you haven't heard that before, I claim to have made it up."

(Joke stolen from A Child's Garden of Grass.)
posted by bink at 2:07 PM on November 14, 2006