Where to start a 14 year old who wants to become a photographer?
November 7, 2006 11:34 AM Subscribe
So, a 14 year old wants to become a press photographer in the UK. What next? A lot
Yo the green. You have helped me many times, now it's time to give up the knowledge for my little brother.
Being a smart and talented kid, my brother has set his sights on becoming a photographer. He's got a Flickr account, which he's using a load, and he's saving for a DSLR. He's got his head screwed on right, and I'd really like to help him achieve this dream if I can.
The way I figure it, he has the option of going to University and doing a formal photography qualification, then going off and starting as a junior photographer on a local, working up to nationals and magazine work.
He also has the option of starting now, working for local papers for free, building experience and a portfolio, participating in or kicking off a school paper, and finally getting to paying work, without the high cost of a degree qualification.
Or some sort of combination of the two.
What say you Mefi photographers? What indispensable gear should he be looking to acquire? What skills are essential (I'm thinking a knowledge of photoshop and other manip programs would be a major plus)? Is a degree worth it?
And once he's in, can he expect to make a reasonable paycheck? Could he supplement with freelance work?
I know this is a lot of thought to put into a career decision that's being made pretty young, but I know that if I'd had the same degree of certainty about what I wanted to do with my life I might have been able to prepare a lot better and actually end up doing something more 'me' than the IT job I now do to pay back student loans. So, I guess, the earlier we get this information, the better.
For reference, a lot of kids in the UK go to Uni age 18 or 19, and in Scotland sometimes 17, so it's not all that far away.
Any tips local to Edinburgh, Scotland would be awesome too.
Yo the green. You have helped me many times, now it's time to give up the knowledge for my little brother.
Being a smart and talented kid, my brother has set his sights on becoming a photographer. He's got a Flickr account, which he's using a load, and he's saving for a DSLR. He's got his head screwed on right, and I'd really like to help him achieve this dream if I can.
The way I figure it, he has the option of going to University and doing a formal photography qualification, then going off and starting as a junior photographer on a local, working up to nationals and magazine work.
He also has the option of starting now, working for local papers for free, building experience and a portfolio, participating in or kicking off a school paper, and finally getting to paying work, without the high cost of a degree qualification.
Or some sort of combination of the two.
What say you Mefi photographers? What indispensable gear should he be looking to acquire? What skills are essential (I'm thinking a knowledge of photoshop and other manip programs would be a major plus)? Is a degree worth it?
And once he's in, can he expect to make a reasonable paycheck? Could he supplement with freelance work?
I know this is a lot of thought to put into a career decision that's being made pretty young, but I know that if I'd had the same degree of certainty about what I wanted to do with my life I might have been able to prepare a lot better and actually end up doing something more 'me' than the IT job I now do to pay back student loans. So, I guess, the earlier we get this information, the better.
For reference, a lot of kids in the UK go to Uni age 18 or 19, and in Scotland sometimes 17, so it's not all that far away.
Any tips local to Edinburgh, Scotland would be awesome too.
If you goes to University I recommend working on the student newspaper - I saw lots of good photographers develop there.
posted by laukf at 12:10 PM on November 7, 2006
posted by laukf at 12:10 PM on November 7, 2006
Augh. I just threw out this month's copy of my union magazine (The Journalist, from the National Union of Journalists, natch), which explained what it was like being a modern press photographer and that NGOs tend to be more likely to pay for pictures than newspapers and agencies, and that rates from papers hadn't changed in 12 years, etc. It would be good advice for someone just starting out.
Sorry.
Of course, the NUJ being the NUJ, the article is not available online. Perhaps any other MeFite with a scanner and the article could oblige?
(note to self: do not ever throw anything away)
posted by randomination at 12:11 PM on November 7, 2006
Sorry.
Of course, the NUJ being the NUJ, the article is not available online. Perhaps any other MeFite with a scanner and the article could oblige?
(note to self: do not ever throw anything away)
posted by randomination at 12:11 PM on November 7, 2006
Best answer: I spent a few years working on a picture desk, but am a bit of touch now. All the same: The route taken by the majority of our staff was college (not university) then up through the ranks of local papers. The best ones were self-taught, but also worked their way up.
There are of course exceptions to this rule, but if he wants to shoot reportage, then art school (and university) is out, and technical training is very much in. He's too young to work properly, but building a portfolio is very much in. Tell him to focus on what newspapers do now, and ask him if he can replicate certain shots. The fireworks on Sunday, for example -- does he know how such pictures are taken? How to freeze a football player? Stuff like that.
Then he needs a portfolio. A good one, because the way to get jobs at papers is to make an appointment with the picture editor, and go for a visit.
Just as in words, editors want to see a reliable, hassle-free person who will do the job they're asked to do. You can't get all this across in a portfolio, but press photography is a pretty small world, especially in Scotland, and your reputation will get around. Quickly.
Other things: Don't work or offer to work for free -- that pisses off the other hacks and you don't need the exposure that much. There are some good agencies working in Scotland too, and some good stock agencies, which can provide an income.
Meantime, I should make it clear: budgets are being slashed, hard, across all the big titles. The market's going to be really tough by the time he grows up.
Also: feel free to drop me a line if you want to know more. Email in profile
posted by bonaldi at 1:09 PM on November 7, 2006
There are of course exceptions to this rule, but if he wants to shoot reportage, then art school (and university) is out, and technical training is very much in. He's too young to work properly, but building a portfolio is very much in. Tell him to focus on what newspapers do now, and ask him if he can replicate certain shots. The fireworks on Sunday, for example -- does he know how such pictures are taken? How to freeze a football player? Stuff like that.
Then he needs a portfolio. A good one, because the way to get jobs at papers is to make an appointment with the picture editor, and go for a visit.
Just as in words, editors want to see a reliable, hassle-free person who will do the job they're asked to do. You can't get all this across in a portfolio, but press photography is a pretty small world, especially in Scotland, and your reputation will get around. Quickly.
Other things: Don't work or offer to work for free -- that pisses off the other hacks and you don't need the exposure that much. There are some good agencies working in Scotland too, and some good stock agencies, which can provide an income.
Meantime, I should make it clear: budgets are being slashed, hard, across all the big titles. The market's going to be really tough by the time he grows up.
Also: feel free to drop me a line if you want to know more. Email in profile
posted by bonaldi at 1:09 PM on November 7, 2006
You list two options, but it seems like they are compatible. He should start looking for classes to take, publications to work for, and possible apprenticeship opportunities. My first thought was to web search near you for wedding photographers. If at his age he can legally work, he might be able to be an assistant to a wedding photographer. It's a kind of intense gig, and not very artistic (it's usually toting gear around), but it would give him an inside look at one relatively lucrative photography business. Another option would be to call around to local papers and see if they offer unpaid internships or other programs aimed at budding journos. Probably anything he can do to build skills, build a portfolio, and start seeing the inside of the actual business would be helpful.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:14 PM on November 7, 2006
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:14 PM on November 7, 2006
Ok - based on what bonaldi said, ignore my advice about unpaid internships!
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:17 PM on November 7, 2006
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:17 PM on November 7, 2006
I'd just like to make the point that please, please, please don't put too much pressure on your brother to continue with this. While photography would be an awesome career, people change and it's hard for them to admit they don't want something anymore if other people are pressuring/constantly pushing them to do it. 2 years ago, I was absolutely convinced, totally sure, had the whole thing planned down to a fine detail, that I was going to be an entrepreneur. My heart was completely in it, and I was reading up on everything I could, coming up with business plans, etc... Two years later, the idea of doing that disgusts me, and I'm really not a fickle person. The thing was, it was really hard to tell my parents/teachers this, because they were pressuring me hard to keep doing this.
I'm not saying don't support your brother, just please make very sure that at each stage he is doing what is right for him, and not what he thinks will please you.
posted by spark at 2:50 PM on November 7, 2006
I'm not saying don't support your brother, just please make very sure that at each stage he is doing what is right for him, and not what he thinks will please you.
posted by spark at 2:50 PM on November 7, 2006
He's got a Flickr account, which he's using a loadHas he found Scoopt yet?
posted by krisjohn at 2:52 PM on November 7, 2006
My outsider's impression is that photography clubs can be good value. Technical advice, competitions etc and no doubt some careers advice.
posted by Idcoytco at 3:26 PM on November 7, 2006
posted by Idcoytco at 3:26 PM on November 7, 2006
Ugh to a huge amount of the above. (Weddings?)
Go to college because you should go to college. Back when I worked on a very large student paper (now sadly neutered so no link) we had both a darkroom of our own and a ton of photographers.
Several studied photography at the University of Westminster. Lots did not. Of the ones I know for sure are now primarily working for newspapers (as opposed to art photography, feature/magazine work, and the like), none studied photography as their BA course. I have no idea why that is.
So I'd suggest going to a university with a good, big newspaper (Leeds and Cardiff spring unbidden to mind), choosing a subject which leaves enough time to put hours in there, and working his arse off at it because practice matters.
While there, enter your stuff for every competition you come across.
Above all (and this is something he can learn now), you ain't shit unless you can develop your own stuff. Not just a quick flash-and-dunk, either - really know your developing skills. Only a third of the job's done on a shot when the film comes out of the can.
And... if you're in Embra, and money permitting, I'd see about getting some work experience in the summer at the Scotsman/News. Or taking advantage of August to get himself a large number of shots of recognisable subjects during the Festivals (people who look at portfolios, like all other people, are at least partially shallow). Or, better still, combining those things.
posted by genghis at 3:45 PM on November 7, 2006
Go to college because you should go to college. Back when I worked on a very large student paper (now sadly neutered so no link) we had both a darkroom of our own and a ton of photographers.
Several studied photography at the University of Westminster. Lots did not. Of the ones I know for sure are now primarily working for newspapers (as opposed to art photography, feature/magazine work, and the like), none studied photography as their BA course. I have no idea why that is.
So I'd suggest going to a university with a good, big newspaper (Leeds and Cardiff spring unbidden to mind), choosing a subject which leaves enough time to put hours in there, and working his arse off at it because practice matters.
While there, enter your stuff for every competition you come across.
Above all (and this is something he can learn now), you ain't shit unless you can develop your own stuff. Not just a quick flash-and-dunk, either - really know your developing skills. Only a third of the job's done on a shot when the film comes out of the can.
And... if you're in Embra, and money permitting, I'd see about getting some work experience in the summer at the Scotsman/News. Or taking advantage of August to get himself a large number of shots of recognisable subjects during the Festivals (people who look at portfolios, like all other people, are at least partially shallow). Or, better still, combining those things.
posted by genghis at 3:45 PM on November 7, 2006
Above all (and this is something he can learn now), you ain't shit unless you can develop your own stuff. Not just a quick flash-and-dunk, either - really know your developing skills. Only a third of the job's done on a shot when the film comes out of the can.
This is a laudable sentiment, and post-process is vital, but forget about wet work. Newspapers are entirely digital now. We dismantled our darkroom at the end of 2004, and haven't looked back since. It's jpg all the way.
Everything else is spot on.
posted by bonaldi at 4:12 PM on November 7, 2006
This is a laudable sentiment, and post-process is vital, but forget about wet work. Newspapers are entirely digital now. We dismantled our darkroom at the end of 2004, and haven't looked back since. It's jpg all the way.
Everything else is spot on.
posted by bonaldi at 4:12 PM on November 7, 2006
you might want to show him the forums at photo.net
being 14, he should absolutely try to get his foot in the door with the local papers, even if that means working for free for ONE assignment. (if after that they don't want to pay, they obviously don't value his work.) it's contacts that he wants. people need to meet him and realize he has his head screwed on right, has talent, wants to work.
the absolute best he can do is shoot as much as possible. that's the only way he will get really good. (btw, do provide a link to his flickr page, please)
he should also start finding accomplished press photographers he could use as mentors. not people who have done the kind of work he wants to do ten years ago but those who are doing it right now. most people are really damn nice if you ask them kindly for a critique of your work. tell him to seek out people like vincent laforet (website) and just call them up.
I personally did go through art school and I'd always recommend it. the thing about a really good college education (and I have many times recommended my alma mater on this site) is that you learn things you never thought of possibly being important in the first place. it's what you didn't plan to get out of it that changes you. but that's of course in the future. see if you can get him to take a color printing class (in a photo darkroom), it will change his perception of color forever.
he has a gigantic headstart by being 14. tell him to go crazy. tell him to make mistakes. tell him to just go out and do it. if he goes about it without fear of screwing it up, greatness will result. if he starts worrying about his future at this point in life already, he's doomed.
again, the art director in me would like to see his flickr set.
my email, if you don't feel like posting it, is in my profile.
posted by krautland at 8:17 PM on November 7, 2006
You're going to get lots of conflicting advice, but here's my shot!
Photography is going through huge upheavals at the moment, it's very difficult to anticipate what will happen to careers in this field. You haven't mentioned what kind of photographer your brother wants to get into. You've implied photojournalism, but there are many other different ways of making a living as a photographer. Shooting weddings can be one of the most lucrative, but not necessarily rewarding! Photojournalism is the most unstable of all the professions... many of the larger papers are giving their photographers video cameras now to capture movie clips as well as stills which are extracted from the footage. Citizen journalism and cheap equipment is also having an effect. Papers have been cutting down on the amount of staffers they employ. Pay is decreasing, and although it's relatively cheap to set up as a photographer, it's hard to keep replacing the euipment as it gets out of date on such a low salary.
I'm a member of the Grassroots X site as mentioned above, it's really only useful if you are into music photography which is pitifully paid and highly competitive.
Education can be a bit of a waste of time, especially in such a rapidly changing environment. I'd recommend just getting stuck in. As has been mentioned, it's all down to the portfolio, character and reputation. It takes a huge amount of initiative and drive... there is no magic path to professional photography. There's a lot of knocking on doors and networking involved. And enthusiasm and perseverance. I would definitely recommend studing for a backup job while developing a killer portfolio which can take years.
posted by BobsterLobster at 5:56 AM on November 8, 2006
Photography is going through huge upheavals at the moment, it's very difficult to anticipate what will happen to careers in this field. You haven't mentioned what kind of photographer your brother wants to get into. You've implied photojournalism, but there are many other different ways of making a living as a photographer. Shooting weddings can be one of the most lucrative, but not necessarily rewarding! Photojournalism is the most unstable of all the professions... many of the larger papers are giving their photographers video cameras now to capture movie clips as well as stills which are extracted from the footage. Citizen journalism and cheap equipment is also having an effect. Papers have been cutting down on the amount of staffers they employ. Pay is decreasing, and although it's relatively cheap to set up as a photographer, it's hard to keep replacing the euipment as it gets out of date on such a low salary.
I'm a member of the Grassroots X site as mentioned above, it's really only useful if you are into music photography which is pitifully paid and highly competitive.
Education can be a bit of a waste of time, especially in such a rapidly changing environment. I'd recommend just getting stuck in. As has been mentioned, it's all down to the portfolio, character and reputation. It takes a huge amount of initiative and drive... there is no magic path to professional photography. There's a lot of knocking on doors and networking involved. And enthusiasm and perseverance. I would definitely recommend studing for a backup job while developing a killer portfolio which can take years.
posted by BobsterLobster at 5:56 AM on November 8, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
In this day and age of user-generated-content there are even news outlets paying members of the public for their cameraphone shots. So I would imagine the outlook seems hopeful for people who want to be in the right place at the right time with a camera.
Though this recommendation is music industry, I know that the site Grassroots Exchange, based in England, is a breeding ground for young photographers who are encouraged to collaborate with bands, video makers and so on. One or two of the photographers from that community have gone on to be represented by this photo management agency, doing photos for the likes of Kaiser Chiefs. And this is young people I'm talking about here.
posted by skylar at 11:53 AM on November 7, 2006 [1 favorite]