For Sale By Owner questions
November 6, 2006 12:50 PM Subscribe
I have "For Sale By Owner" questions. It has been a while since anyone has asked for advice for selling a home yourself, and I'm hoping for some more informative answers. If you've sold your house yourself, what websites did you use? Is there a company you would recommend for a MLS flat fee listing that includes a listing on Realtor.com? How small of a commission did you find buyer's agents are willing to take?
I'm selling my house on Cape Cod, Massachusetts and the online MLS flat fee listing companies all seem to have a caveat about my county not being in the PIN. I'm not sure if that matters or there is anyway around it.
I'm not interested in having a real estate agent. I have spoken with a few. I created a website for the house with plenty of pictures and details. I have a lawyer to handle my side of the sale. I have a non-transferable mortgage. I'm not interested in creative financing. Is there any reason I should worry about the size of the down payment?
All tales and advice related to FSBO appreciated.
I'm selling my house on Cape Cod, Massachusetts and the online MLS flat fee listing companies all seem to have a caveat about my county not being in the PIN. I'm not sure if that matters or there is anyway around it.
I'm not interested in having a real estate agent. I have spoken with a few. I created a website for the house with plenty of pictures and details. I have a lawyer to handle my side of the sale. I have a non-transferable mortgage. I'm not interested in creative financing. Is there any reason I should worry about the size of the down payment?
All tales and advice related to FSBO appreciated.
When we sold our Vancouver BC condo a few years ago I bought a domain name, created a website and even bought a textad here, but in the end the buyer turned out to be the first person who walked by the sign we put out front. She didn't have a buyer's agent, although she did wind up paying someone (out of her own pocket, not ours) to look over her offer for her.
We were pretty pleased with the experience. I can't imagine what an agent could have done for us that would have been worth the ten grand it would have cost.
posted by timeistight at 2:26 PM on November 6, 2006
We were pretty pleased with the experience. I can't imagine what an agent could have done for us that would have been worth the ten grand it would have cost.
posted by timeistight at 2:26 PM on November 6, 2006
I know you're not interested in having a real estate agent (and you will probably resent this advice) but become interested in having a real estate agent.
Here's why:
-A capable realtor can properly price your home. They will be intimately familiar with historic local selling prices and how your home compares. They will be aware of which phase the real estate market in your area is in, and can advise you accordingly.
-A capable realtor will be much better at the negotiating table than you. They have a much different relationship with the buyer's realtor than you alone might and through experience, will be much better at determining what the buyers will pay. Negotiating directly with the buyer's agent will give that agent a much better idea of what sort of person you are and how flexible you are with price than they would otherwise have.
-A capable realtor will get the word out about your home much better than you are likely to. They have a network of buyers at their disposal and they know what sort of advertising will work for your property.
More reasons why you really should leave it to a professional. Statistically, I think it's most profitable on average to get yourself a good realtor, even with their commission. IANAR, but there's one in the family.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 3:06 PM on November 6, 2006
Here's why:
-A capable realtor can properly price your home. They will be intimately familiar with historic local selling prices and how your home compares. They will be aware of which phase the real estate market in your area is in, and can advise you accordingly.
-A capable realtor will be much better at the negotiating table than you. They have a much different relationship with the buyer's realtor than you alone might and through experience, will be much better at determining what the buyers will pay. Negotiating directly with the buyer's agent will give that agent a much better idea of what sort of person you are and how flexible you are with price than they would otherwise have.
-A capable realtor will get the word out about your home much better than you are likely to. They have a network of buyers at their disposal and they know what sort of advertising will work for your property.
More reasons why you really should leave it to a professional. Statistically, I think it's most profitable on average to get yourself a good realtor, even with their commission. IANAR, but there's one in the family.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 3:06 PM on November 6, 2006
Response by poster: Please leave the fear, uncertainty and doubt out of responses. The same sales and assessment data realtors use for pricing is publicly available, and easily searchable on the internet for my area. Half remembered statistics are not helpful, citations of independently peer-reviewed studies would be.
And the truth is realtors are paid when a deal closes, making them less interested in maintaining a hard line through negotations. Here's a peer reviewed study to get you up to speed on the facts:
http://home.uchicago.edu/~syverson/realestate.pdf
posted by McGuillicuddy at 3:49 PM on November 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
And the truth is realtors are paid when a deal closes, making them less interested in maintaining a hard line through negotations. Here's a peer reviewed study to get you up to speed on the facts:
http://home.uchicago.edu/~syverson/realestate.pdf
posted by McGuillicuddy at 3:49 PM on November 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: As a link: Market Distortions when Agents are Better Informed: A Theoretical and Empirical Exploration of the Value of Information in Real Estate Transactions
posted by McGuillicuddy at 3:53 PM on November 6, 2006
posted by McGuillicuddy at 3:53 PM on November 6, 2006
IAAR, typically the sold homes data is available to the public via county tax records, but there is not typically a search engine attached that lets you say "5 miles from this address, 3 bedroom, built since 1960, 2500 sq ft".
Lots of data is available to see the homes currently for sale, but you have to decide what you want to emulate... homes that are for sale or homes that are sold...
posted by thilmony at 4:16 PM on November 6, 2006
Lots of data is available to see the homes currently for sale, but you have to decide what you want to emulate... homes that are for sale or homes that are sold...
posted by thilmony at 4:16 PM on November 6, 2006
Upfront, my husband is a sales manager for a real estate company. When he was a realtor he did occasionally wind up having a client buy a fsbo.
You need to know that many agents try very hard not to wind up in these deals because they wind up doing just about the same work as a dual agent for half the pay plus carry all the liability (there are a ton of ways to get your butt sued off and lose your license if you aren't very very careful.)
I am glad you have a lawyer. He won't help you price the home properly, tho.
And btw the agent that represents you is legally obligated to take your best interests in any negotiations. If the agent does NOT represent you, he is legally obligated to take HIS CLIENT"S best interests.
Finally, as a wife who has watched my husband and other realtors in action for over a decade, remember that Murphy's law could have been written just for real estate transactions. There are so many details that can go wrong and totally derail a deal, or make someone sue-able, or cost one money, etc, etc-a competent agent can pull a deal out of the fire for you. There is no hell like being in a transaction with a crazy client, and the realtor is your buffer for same. And there are lots of batcrap crazy buyers out there.
Good luck, you will need it.
posted by konolia at 4:36 PM on November 6, 2006
You need to know that many agents try very hard not to wind up in these deals because they wind up doing just about the same work as a dual agent for half the pay plus carry all the liability (there are a ton of ways to get your butt sued off and lose your license if you aren't very very careful.)
I am glad you have a lawyer. He won't help you price the home properly, tho.
And btw the agent that represents you is legally obligated to take your best interests in any negotiations. If the agent does NOT represent you, he is legally obligated to take HIS CLIENT"S best interests.
Finally, as a wife who has watched my husband and other realtors in action for over a decade, remember that Murphy's law could have been written just for real estate transactions. There are so many details that can go wrong and totally derail a deal, or make someone sue-able, or cost one money, etc, etc-a competent agent can pull a deal out of the fire for you. There is no hell like being in a transaction with a crazy client, and the realtor is your buffer for same. And there are lots of batcrap crazy buyers out there.
Good luck, you will need it.
posted by konolia at 4:36 PM on November 6, 2006
Response by poster: thilmony - good point about finding comparable house sales when setting a price. For my town, you can search the assessment records online by street, sale price, assessment value, and/or sales date. And the same functionality was available in the town where I owned my last home. The data is not as hard to find as real estate agents would lead one to believe.
And of course, Zillow.com provides recent sales data and helps you find comparable houses too.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 4:40 PM on November 6, 2006
And of course, Zillow.com provides recent sales data and helps you find comparable houses too.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 4:40 PM on November 6, 2006
I'm a buyer's agent, and while I personally feel it's my job to show any listing my clients would like to see, If I show a listing that is from a discount broker and they are offering less than 3%, I will try my hardest to find something as close to that property as possible to give them options other than the discount broker's.
I know you probably don't want to hear that, but I just thought you might appreciate a buyer's agent's perspective on the situation.
posted by slim at 4:42 PM on November 6, 2006
I know you probably don't want to hear that, but I just thought you might appreciate a buyer's agent's perspective on the situation.
posted by slim at 4:42 PM on November 6, 2006
slim - Providing your clients with all the properties that fit their needs is great, but your legal responsibility is to find your clients a home they want, not the best financial deal for you. No knock against you, I'm sure you do represent your clients fairly, I've just seen the agents who do not.
If you have a signed buyer's agency agreement (for non-Realtors - if you don't have this, you are not a buyer's agent and you legally are not representing the buyer's best interests), then the buyers are obligated to fork over the difference in buyer's agency fees when the home is purchased- the half percent, or whatever the case may be. The client is informed of this when the agreement is signed, and can be reminded when the situation arises. Then they can decide if they like that property enough to pay you out of pocket, or find another home. In reality, the buyer is paying for the Realtor fees no matter what, but it seems much easier when you don't have to pay that "extra" money at closing.
I will say that it can quickly kill a buyer's interest in the property, especially when they are barely bringing enough to the table for the down payment and closing costs. I know of a case where a FSBO refused to pay a commission to an agent, but the represented buyers wanted the home, so they paid the entire 3% to their agent on top of the sale price without blinking an eye.
I am a Realtor, and I completely understand people attempting to sell on their own. It takes time and effort, and many people do eventually go with a Realtor, but it can be done. In my opinion, you are paying your Realtor for the exposure the home gets. As a single seller, you will not get the attention from the number of buyers that a good real estate agent will see. The flat fee MLS listings help with that, but you will lack the advertising most Realtors provide. One option is to act as your own listing agent, and get the information about your home out to the real estate companies in the area. Make up a flyer you can fax or hand out at the offices, with the pertinent information and the buyer's commission you've picked.
One last note: you ask about the size of the down payment, do you mean the earnest money deposit?
Good luck selling your home, I hope you get a contract in the first week!
posted by shinynewnick at 9:47 PM on November 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
If you have a signed buyer's agency agreement (for non-Realtors - if you don't have this, you are not a buyer's agent and you legally are not representing the buyer's best interests), then the buyers are obligated to fork over the difference in buyer's agency fees when the home is purchased- the half percent, or whatever the case may be. The client is informed of this when the agreement is signed, and can be reminded when the situation arises. Then they can decide if they like that property enough to pay you out of pocket, or find another home. In reality, the buyer is paying for the Realtor fees no matter what, but it seems much easier when you don't have to pay that "extra" money at closing.
I will say that it can quickly kill a buyer's interest in the property, especially when they are barely bringing enough to the table for the down payment and closing costs. I know of a case where a FSBO refused to pay a commission to an agent, but the represented buyers wanted the home, so they paid the entire 3% to their agent on top of the sale price without blinking an eye.
I am a Realtor, and I completely understand people attempting to sell on their own. It takes time and effort, and many people do eventually go with a Realtor, but it can be done. In my opinion, you are paying your Realtor for the exposure the home gets. As a single seller, you will not get the attention from the number of buyers that a good real estate agent will see. The flat fee MLS listings help with that, but you will lack the advertising most Realtors provide. One option is to act as your own listing agent, and get the information about your home out to the real estate companies in the area. Make up a flyer you can fax or hand out at the offices, with the pertinent information and the buyer's commission you've picked.
One last note: you ask about the size of the down payment, do you mean the earnest money deposit?
Good luck selling your home, I hope you get a contract in the first week!
posted by shinynewnick at 9:47 PM on November 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'm a buyer's agent, and while I personally feel it's my job to show any listing my clients would like to see, If I show a listing that is from a discount broker and they are offering less than 3%, I will try my hardest to find something as close to that property as possible to give them options other than the discount broker's.
And so there you have it. An agent is not so interested in getting you the best home. The agent's first interest is in securing their commission. That is the problem you face in trying to sell your home yourself.
posted by JackFlash at 11:08 PM on November 6, 2006
And so there you have it. An agent is not so interested in getting you the best home. The agent's first interest is in securing their commission. That is the problem you face in trying to sell your home yourself.
posted by JackFlash at 11:08 PM on November 6, 2006
If my client loved the house in question, I would, without a second thought, encourage them to buy it. My client's interests always fall first... I would be out of business otherwise. However, if they were on the fence, I would provide them with as many similar options as possible. He asked for honest opinions and I gave that to him.
posted by slim at 5:54 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by slim at 5:54 PM on November 8, 2006
Response by poster: shinynewnick and slim - I appreciate your responses.
I'm suprised nobody has more information about flat-fee MLS listings. I'll post my impression of the process when I decide which one to use.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 8:11 AM on November 9, 2006
I'm suprised nobody has more information about flat-fee MLS listings. I'll post my impression of the process when I decide which one to use.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 8:11 AM on November 9, 2006
I think you can get an MLS listing for a flat fee on for sale by owner dot com
posted by delladlux at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2006
posted by delladlux at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2006
Response by poster: After trying "for sale by owner" for four months and a Realtor™ for six months, I am once again trying to sell it myself. Iggys House Realty is a new company created by early innovators in online stock trading. Similar to E*trade, the idea is to cut out the middle man, provide the consumer the tools of the trade, and compete for customers by offering lower commissions.
Iggys House provides sellers a free listing on Realtor.com and an MLS listing (previous 2 links are to my house on Iggys House and Realtor.com, as an example of the services) in an attempt to earn the good will of sellers who will choose them as their buyers' agent when it is time to buy again. As your buyers' agents, they claim they'll refund 75% of their commission.
If Iggys House has a weakness for sellers, it is providing the information that informs pricing decisions. For comparable home sales, market trends, and sales history information Zillow is the best site I have found.
Also of note, since I first posted this question RedFin has begun offering flat-fee sellers' agent services, include MLS and Realtor.com listings in Massachusetts.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 1:42 PM on October 27, 2007
Iggys House provides sellers a free listing on Realtor.com and an MLS listing (previous 2 links are to my house on Iggys House and Realtor.com, as an example of the services) in an attempt to earn the good will of sellers who will choose them as their buyers' agent when it is time to buy again. As your buyers' agents, they claim they'll refund 75% of their commission.
If Iggys House has a weakness for sellers, it is providing the information that informs pricing decisions. For comparable home sales, market trends, and sales history information Zillow is the best site I have found.
Also of note, since I first posted this question RedFin has begun offering flat-fee sellers' agent services, include MLS and Realtor.com listings in Massachusetts.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 1:42 PM on October 27, 2007
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posted by xmutex at 1:01 PM on November 6, 2006