Comments on: Is 'proof, if proof be need be' a Chris Morris coinage, or a real phrase?

Question: Is 'proof, if proof be need be' a Chris Morris coinage, or a real phrase?

jack_mo — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 02:30:25 -0800

Is the phrase 'proof, if proof be need be' a Chris Morris coinage?

Yesterday morning on the Today programme, during an interview with a member of A-ha (!) a reporter used the phrase 'proof, if proof be need be'.

As far as I'm aware, this weird, mangled formulation originated on the Chris Morris/Armando Iannucci show The Day Today, in an Episode 2 sketch about rogue street dentists.

So, did the BBC hack (hilariously) pick up the phrase from The Day Today, or is it a 'real' phrase, pre-dating the sketch?

By: beniamino

beniamino — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:05:57 -0800

I also think Chris Morris invented it. The 'real' phrase is 'proof, if proof were necessary', or 'proof, if proof were needed'. And even they are ridiculous phrases for a journalist to use. It's hilarious that the reporter slipped into that usage. It's probably only a matter of time before Newsnight adopts the Currency Cat as an explanatory device.

By: bifter

bifter — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:08:50 -0800

Yeah, can't imagine that was anything other than an in-joke for the benefit of the reporter's colleagues.

By: unmusic

unmusic — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:18:45 -0800

Be need be... I miss The Day Today!

By: ClanvidHorse

ClanvidHorse — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:33:23 -0800

News Felch!

The twisted brain-wrong of a one-off man-mental.

I cannot help with your question jack mo but I am smiling now at the Morrisisms coursing through my mind.

By: game warden to the events rhino

game warden to the events rhino — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:14:15 -0800

It is a Chris Morris-ism. And it was used on Today. I almost cut myself shaving. Fantastic.

Together we will infiltrate the English language until it consists almost entirely of Day Today-isms. Now fact me till I fart.

By: MetaMonkey

MetaMonkey — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:16:35 -0800

I think it is almost certainly a Morrisism.

The evidence:

1. No google hits before The Day Today.

2. A good number of the google hits reference Morris, or are clearly in jest

3. It sounds very much like it came from the man Morris.

I love how his words infiltrate.

By: MetaMonkey

MetaMonkey — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:19:41 -0800

Incidentally, here's the episode script for your dose of verbal Morris fun.

By: samstarling

samstarling — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:25:07 -0800

As a sidenote, Colatterly Sisters doing the Finance was a highlight for me...

"There's a lot of pressure there on the Bundesvessel, leading to a slight inflamation in the exchange tract, causing a negative flow of waste pounds across all international membranes. In summary then, seven's a bit younger."

By: Emperor SnooKloze

Emperor SnooKloze — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:37:59 -0800

Not that's it's a significant difference, but I imagine that "Proof, if proof be needed," is probably the parent of this horrid linguistic redheaded stepchild.

By: meehawl

meehawl — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:54:36 -0800

Nathan Barley has a bunch of idioms that I predict will enter the vernacular.

By: Mocata

Mocata — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 05:33:38 -0800

Or it could be a common mis-speaking that CM picked up on, as when people write 'free reign' etc.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 06:05:06 -0800

Or it could be a common mis-speaking

Except it's not. Pay attention.

By: ninebelow

ninebelow — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 07:56:13 -0800

Related to this, I am sure I have heard Peter Sissons call Brian Hanrahan Brian Hanrahanrahan.

By: sonofslim

sonofslim — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:07:24 -0800

i could have sworn that i'd heard "proof, if proof need be" before then, but google only turns up a handful of matches for "if proof need be," so now i don't know.

By: Hogshead

Hogshead — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:38:54 -0800

I'd guess he was using it ironically. I've been doing it for years.

By: jack_mo

jack_mo — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 11:46:58 -0800

Thanks everyone - I was sure it was a Morrisism, but hearing it on Today gave me pause.

I almost cut myself shaving.

Hee - same here!

I wonder if it was a deliberate in-joke or if the phrase has now entered the language? Pretty much everyone I know uses it whenever they use the word 'proof' so I suppose a non-Morris fan could pick it up pretty easily...

Oh, what the heck, I'll email Today and ask.