Comments on: Help with online poker addiction

Question: Help with online poker addiction

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:59:18 -0800

I think my brother is addicted to online poker...

My younger brother is in his last year of university right now. He recently cashed out $7000 from his RRSP account which my parents gave him, so my dad ran a credit check on him. Apparently he's managed to max out $25k in credit cards while having all his living expenses paid for by my parents. My dad asked him where the money went, and he went on a bit about some guy who he is investing money with...very vague and sketchy and I'm sure totally made up. I'm afraid he's addicted to online poker since I can't think of where else he could possibly spend $30k while at school in a college town.

A little bit about my brother: he's got a lot of issues with compulsive behaviour, including actual OCD, which may be linked with his Tourette's syndrome. He's also really bad with money, likes to spend a lot. Also, in terms of gambling, he's one of those people that think it's perfectly reasonable to expect to win at the casino...he reads about those guys who win at poker tournaments and uses that as evidence that he can come out ahead if he knows the right "tricks" etc. So basically, he's got all the personality it takes to become a compulsive gambler.

My brother is a smart guy, and works hard when he needs to. He could get a pretty good job after graduation probably, and in terms of money my parents can afford to bail him out if they needed to. The problem is none of that helps him with the gambling!! None of us know what to do at this point...Advice? Experience? Resources?

Email at gamblinganon@gmail.com

By: mckenney

mckenney — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:06:50 -0800

Don't give him any more money.

By: jesirose

jesirose — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:07:46 -0800

Do you have any evidence it's poker? It could just as much be drugs, sex, anything risky that costs a lot.

There are tons of resources out there for addictive and compulsive behavior. Since you say he has several conditions, I bet he has a doctor/therapist/something. Have you told that person? They might be able to extract info from him better than you with something like this.

I haven't dealt with this before, but googling "Gambling Addiction" turned up several resources right away. Investigate those.

By: BorgLove

BorgLove — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:13:26 -0800

Maybe he'll be a bit more honest with you than with your Dad if you approach him about it. It sounds like you're assuming quite a bit at this stage, but if he is in the situation you've outlined he's probably scared as hell.

By: BorgLove

BorgLove — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:15:08 -0800

... so a frank conversation between the two of you is probably the best place to start.

By: k8t

k8t — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:20:55 -0800

I'm on a college campus right now and it seems that online poker is VERY commonplace nowadays for college-aged men.

By: JohnnyGunn

JohnnyGunn — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:26:31 -0800

Why not try to get a copy of his credit card bill?

By: lee

lee — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:28:25 -0800

Do you know any of his friends at school? I am sure they could tell you everything. Matbe you should go visit him.

By: lee

lee — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:28:55 -0800

Matbe=Maybe

By: ludwig_van

ludwig_van — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:31:21 -0800

Also, in terms of gambling, he's one of those people that think it's perfectly reasonable to expect to win at the casino...he reads about those guys who win at poker tournaments and uses that as evidence that he can come out ahead if he knows the right "tricks" etc.

There is a whole lot of skill involved in poker. You can do very well if you're good enough, but it's not a matter of "knowing the right tricks," it's about reading thousands of pages of books and hand analyses, spending months developing your game, etc., just like many other competitive pursuits. I don't speak from personal experience; I don't even know how to play. But a good friend of mine puts himself through school and pays for a luxury apartment from online poker money, and that's how he does it.

Anyway, $30k is a shit-ton of money to lose at poker. It sounds like you need to learn more about the situation.

By: Jairus

Jairus — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:55:30 -0800

I'm afraid he's addicted to online poker since I can't think of where else he could possibly spend $30k while at school in a college town.

Have you ever heard of 'cocaine'?

By: richardhay

richardhay — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:57:58 -0800

His father pulled his credit report!?!? Wow, that's illegal.

Anyway, I agree with the others. You need to talk to him. Take him out for coffee and just have a frank conversation. Ask him what is going on and, more importantly, how you can help.

If you don't have that type of relationship where you think that that will work, perhaps try 'tipping off' the college or university's health center. They have counselors who might be able to intervene.

Good luck!

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:01:42 -0800

His father pulled his credit report!?!? Wow, that's illegal.

Is it illegal if the boy isn't 21?

By: JakeWalker

JakeWalker — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:07:24 -0800

Is it illegal if the boy isn't 21?

If it's illegal, the age in question is 18, not 21. Once you are 18, you are an adult.

By: maxwelton

maxwelton — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:34:00 -0800

I've read time and again that one of the key components in any type of financial shenanigans like this is the fact that the person involved KNOWS they will be bailed out. You make it sound like your parents will simply write a check for $25K and maybe give a "stern talking to." That isn't going to solve anything...your brother will have $25K more debt before he knows it. Why shouldn't he?

Think this would get better if he graduates and somehow lands a decent job?

Anyway, before your question can be answered, you need to truly determine if it's gambling or just pissing the money away.

By: justkevin

justkevin — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:03:53 -0800

Why would it be illegal for a creditor to run a credit check on someone?

Anyway, I agree with the other posters that the first thing is to figure out exactly what his problem is. Gambling and drugs seem like the most likely explanations but there may be others. Over what time period has the money disappeared?

By: bshort

bshort — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:37:32 -0800

Why would it be illegal for a creditor to run a credit check on someone?

I'm pretty sure that just being someone's father doesn't automatically make you a "creditor."

And yeah, it could be both gambling and cocaine. Maybe even at the same time.

The most important thing is, though, to not give him any more money.

By: winston

winston — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:57:54 -0800

re: The discussion of legality of the credit check. Based on the reference to an RRSP, it seems that this is occuring in Canada. (I would be surprised if the law was very different than the USA but who knows)

By: trishthedish

trishthedish — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 20:01:56 -0800

Is it illegal if the boy isn't 21?

If it's illegal, the age in question is 18, not 21. Once you are 18, you are an adult.

I know in regards to financial aid and several other programs the federal government considers you the financial responsibility of your parents until the age of 24. Since he is a student being supported by his parents and most likely being claimed as a dependent at this point his father would probably have no problem stating his reasoning for pulling the credit report.

(IANAL)

By: slapshot57

slapshot57 — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:11:43 -0800

he's not going to stop until he gets hit with negative consequences. Since you are just going to bail him out the money he's lost is not real to him. Therefore he might as well be playing solitare.

You want to help him? cut him off. (after first establishing that yes, it is poker and not drug dealers who're going to kill him).

I played a fair amount of poker (both on and offline) and it can get addictive. Hit him hard now and get him to break this habit. If you want motivation, watch A River Runs Through It.

By: matteo

matteo — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 06:58:44 -0800

yeah, stop giving him money. that's step 1.

anything else, it's a counselor/therapist's job, not yours

By: mosch

mosch — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 07:10:44 -0800

First of all, make sure it's poker, not drugs, girls, random lavish spending or any number of other vices. You want to address the right problem, after all.

The problem with poker is that you don't just need to be better than average, you need to be significantly better than average, because the house takes a small portion of each pot.

As such, the game is no longer zero sum.

More than 90% of poker players lose. If he's losing beyond what is sustainable entertainment purposes, you guys need to cut off his cash.

As for the ban on internet gambling, it doesn't help you here. As of today, there is still no problem getting a game. This seems unlikely to change.

By: mosch

mosch — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 07:12:36 -0800

Oh, and FWIW, I can think of a LOT of things that seem more likely than Poker. Most college kids play games in the $25-$200 range, and it would be REALLY hard to lose $30k+ at those limits.

It's possible that he played in big games where losing $30k is common, but that would require a nearly obscene amount of bad judgement.