Comments on: Erudition's Musicians?

Question: Erudition's Musicians?

Ambrosia Voyeur — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:02:01 -0800

Off to a Decemberists show tonight, and thereby wondering: What are some musical acts, especially predating 1980, with a simliar proclivity toward verbosity and the historical or arcane?

I love what such music is doing for my vocabulary, and it appeals very much to my gothic sensibilities. Contemporary acts that I think qualify to some extent are Stephin Merritt and Joanna Newsom, even Tom Waits. I tried Audioscrobbler, but it doesn't list much that's not suspiciously pop comtemporary.

By: box

box — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:10:58 -0800

I'm not sure I understand your question, but Bob Dylan? The Band? Leonard Cohen? Joni Mitchell?

By: cobaltnine

cobaltnine — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:23:44 -0800

When I was younger, I learned vocabulary from Blue Oyster Cult lyrics. There's some interesting stuff in some of the 'smarter' prog rock, too.

(I also learned most of my post WW2 American History through classic rock songs with my father's commentary.)

By: Ambrosia Voyeur

Ambrosia Voyeur — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:24:48 -0800

Okay - I'm ooking for bands or singers that use big and or obscure words effectively to tell stories or poetically. Ya know, picaresque, arabesque, odalisque, etc.

By: palmcorder_yajna

palmcorder_yajna — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:28:59 -0800

The Mountain Goats' songs have wonderfully allusive, complex lyrics. Start with Talahassee or We Shall All Be Healed and don't look back. I'm also fond of Mike Doughty's lyrics, which, again, are quite smart and packed with allusion. And as far as lyrical arcana is concerned, you really can't do better than Robyn Hitchcock.

For fun historical pastiche, you might really like Circus Contraption. Contraption's much campier than The Decembrists, but the music's fun, danceable, and thoroughly satisfying.

Of course, if you're looking for pre-1980 music that's both highly literate and engaged with history, IMO, you're basically looking for Bob Dylan.

In addition, I'd recommend The Fibonaccis, who are (or were) a kooky, brainy, dancey outfit from L.A.. Lou Reed's New York might fit the bill for you as well, as might Richard Thompson, if you can handle the folkiness. Neutral Milk Hotel and the other bands associated with Elephant 6 would also be worth exploring.

By: InfidelZombie

InfidelZombie — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:29:10 -0800

Rush was the first band I thought of-- Neil Peart's never been scared to use big or obscure words in his lyrics. For verbose I always think of Crass, but I'm not sure they fit after you clarified what you're looking for.

By: ktrey

ktrey — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:36:24 -0800

I'd give Momus a listen, if you haven't already.

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:39:07 -0800

Sufjan Stevens is the obvious go-to point for current music (perhaps Destroyer, too?) but you're asking for pre 1980. Okay.

Seeing as the D's seem to have decided to nearly single-handedly revive the career of Emerson, Lake and Palmer [note: I am bitter about the new album, YMMV of course] you could do worse than to delve into the glory days of British prog (circa 1972). Yes were wordy, but seeing as you're looking for stories, which I assume means some kind of sensible narrative, you won't find that on any of the worth-listening to Yes albums, all of which are riddled with lyrics that I lost weeks of my life in Grade 10 trying to puzzle out. Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick is literary, and narratively based, being basically one long oedipal rant.

Are you particularly interested in popular music? Because everything you're looking for could also be found in Kurt Weill, art songs of various provenance, and that master of wordplay, Cole Porter.

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:46:49 -0800

Oh, and of course Genesis circa 1972, as well. They used the word "undinal" in one song (Firth of Fifth, I think) which sent me straight to the dictionary way back when.

By: box

box — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:49:24 -0800

Here are some more non-pre-1980 ones: Saul Williams and Mike Ladd.

By: Ambrosia Voyeur

Ambrosia Voyeur — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:54:06 -0800

palmcorder: I think you've got a bead on it. I have Tallahassee at home, as of yet unlistened to, and just bought a fibs album on your recommendation. My bf likes NMH, but I haven't really taken to them yet. I'll look into the rest that you mentioned!

ktrey: Momus is one of my newest favorite discoveries. Good call.

This is great! Keep 'em coming!

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:57:40 -0800

Some goofy musicians have very erudite lyrics in some of their songs: They Might be Giants, Tom Lehrer, Jonathan Richman.

By: Ambrosia Voyeur

Ambrosia Voyeur — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:04:28 -0800

LobsterMitten: TMBG and their ilk are my bread and butter. I'm in a bit of a lemon curd and crumpet mood.

By: matildaben

matildaben — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:06:21 -0800

Many of the above, plus Nothing Painted Blue/Franklin Bruno.

By: PinkStainlessTail

PinkStainlessTail — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:09:50 -0800

The Residents, particularly the albums Duck Stab, Not Available, and God in Three Persons.

Van Dyke Parks, the guy who wrote the lyrics for the Beach Boys better stuff, and most of the Lyrics on Brian Wilson's SMile!. His Song Cycle album is an absolutely amazing and mostly unrecognized classic.

Escalator Over the Hill Carla Bley's "opera" with words by Paul Haines. Some incredible wordplay and dazzling imagery.

Two albums the Red Krayola did with an art collective known as Art and Language might be interesting. Corrected Slogans and Kangaroo? both delve into Marxist theory and use quite a bit of jargon to great (if frequently and unintentionally comic) effect. Kangaroo? is the stronger and more listenable of the two (it's a sort of concept album about the Russian Revolution), but Corrected Slogans has "Don't Talk to Sociologists" an extremely odd yet restrained piece of music that I adore: it's a spoken, unrhymed cautionary diatribe against sociologists and sociology, with jaunty piano accompaniment.

By: jet_silver

jet_silver — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:23:24 -0800

Al Stewart has an awful lot of historical allusions in Time Passages. Alan Parsons' Tales of Mystery and Imagination is right out of E. A. Poe. Robyn Hitchcock is incredibly erudite, especially on Invisible Hitchcock, but pick nearly any of his records and you'll find something peculiar and wonderful.

By: jbickers

jbickers — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:27:11 -0800

Procol Harum!

By: Flashman

Flashman — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:27:53 -0800

If you see somebody around you with a tape recorder, be sure to yell to them over the sound of the music - "is this from their new album?!"

By: chippie

chippie — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:28:01 -0800

Andrew Bird, Rhett Miller, Camper Van Beethoven, old REM? If you like TMBG, you might like Ethan Lipton.

By: Flashman

Flashman — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:30:38 -0800

Oh and if you like the gothic and poetic, investigate Richard Buckner's The Hill - Edgar Lee Master's 'Spoon River Anthology' put to music.

By: zachlipton

zachlipton — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:10:05 -0800

This may be going in entirely the wrong direction, but Tom Lehrer comes immediately to mind. He does a lot of political/social commentary songs, including a lot of Cold War material.

By: 23skidoo

23skidoo — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:20:01 -0800

Early Bad Religion, particularly the album "No Control" will have you running to the dictionary as you listen to the lyrics.

I still have no idea if my fecundity is a trammel or a treasure.

By: scody

scody — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:38:36 -0800

The Divine Comedy (early '90s-present) immediately comes to mind. Also, what about XTC (late '70s-present)? And for strange and beautiful lyrics (mysterious, evocative, haunting), Tim Rutili of Califone is pretty much the king.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:46:50 -0800

Jeez, 23 Skidoo, that's what he's saying?

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:19:46 -0800

Al Stewart has an awful lot of historical allusions in Time Passages.

Oooh, Roads to Moscow! "In the footsteps of Napoleon the shadow figures stagger through the winter." Awesome.

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:20:42 -0800

Another vote for early REM, as well.

By: taber

taber — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:32:39 -0800

On a slightly punkier note, Ted Leo + the Pharmacists (their spelling, not my clever interpretation of it, if that tells you anything) runs some very erudite turns of phrases, and unabashedly throws about "apostasy" and "ossification" through the midst of the rock and roll.

I'd dive after Of Montreal for a more whimsical (and more akin to The Decemberists in that spirit of whimsy) sort of turn, but no less erudite. I'm also going to second the recommendations of Sufjan Stevens, Mountain Goats, Richard Buckner, Circus Contraption, and Neutral Milk Hotel.

This is a neat thread, I think I was interested in answers to this question too and just didn't know it. Maybe we all start tagging appropriate artists on last.fm with something unwieldy like "outrageously erudite?" :)

By: KirkJobSluder

KirkJobSluder — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:48:10 -0800

Probably not what you are looking for but...

Rasuputina's Frustration Plantation dug into historic archives and dishes up traditional songs, a Sophie Tucker cabaret number, and a parody of 19th century white slavery by Indians novels.

Loreena McKennitt is more of a New Age/Celtic Fusion performer who sets classic 19th century poems to music on every album.

Kate Bush might be worth looking into as well. And Laurie Anderson.

By: mbrubeck

mbrubeck — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:50:00 -0800

Definitely Elvis Costello, though only a small part of his work was pre-1980.

This old thread about music with smart lyrics has some more.

By: scarylarry

scarylarry — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:02:55 -0800

Scott Miller led the bands Game Theory and The Loud Family, both of which employ almost Joycean levels of allusion and esotericism. But they're from the 80s and early 90s.

Got to second Robyn Hitchcock, as well as his old band, The Soft Boys. Elvis Costello. Destroyer. Some Incredible String Band...

By: scarylarry

scarylarry — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:07:24 -0800

Oh, I can't believe I forgot John Vanderslice and Okkervil River. They're contemporary, but I think that both write the most literary lyrics on the indie scene.

The Talking Heads and David Byrne, too.

By: Kensational

Kensational — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:19:01 -0800

They Might Be Giants

By: umbú

umbú — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:45:11 -0800

Adding to jet_silver and scarylarry's posts, if you like the Decemberists and haven't heard Robyn Hitchcock, you might be taken aback by how much Colin Melloy was inspired by him. Hitchcock's influence can be found not just in the similar nasal tone of their voices, but also in the way that they create pop songs that evoke carefully rendered, self-contained, off-kilter worlds.

By: 4ster

4ster — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:21:36 -0800

The Smiths (or anything else by Morrissey). Morrissey was (is) facinated by Oscar Wilde and Kerouak, but much of his lyrics reflect his erudition and his well-read (although sometimes obscurely so) mind.

By: a louis wain cat

a louis wain cat — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:33:02 -0800

Current 93's lyrics are quite erudite, in their obscure, mystical, and personal fashion. They can be fairly impenetrable, as you might guess from that description, but I find them fascinating. David Tibet has an amazingly broad range of esoteric literary and artistic interests, which his lyrics reflect.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:48:45 -0800

Meloy is one of my favorite songwriters--though I like him for how he uses words not just the words he uses. Here's a list of others I like for the same reason:

Why?
Smog
The Handsome Family
Leonard Cohen
John Giorno (poet; long mp3)
Lou Reed
Clem Snide
Giant Sand (Howe Gelb)
Jeff Mangum (Neutral Milk Hotel)
Soul Coughing
Thee More Shallows
Devendra Banhart
Lift to Experience
Sebadoh / Sentridoh
Joe Pernice (Scud Mountain Boys in particular)
Graham Smith (Kleenex Girl Wonder)
Kurt Wagner (Lambchop)
Langhorne Slim
Lyle Lovett
Simon Joyner
Fugazi
Liars
Pavement
M. Ward
Songs: Ohia
Man Man
Modest Mouse

By: palmcorder_yajna

palmcorder_yajna — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:01:32 -0800

I can't believe I forgot Big Rude Jake. It's swing revival, and it's unbelievably smart stuff. Basically, if you take The Cherry Poppin' Daddies and make them (a) Canadian; (b) Incandescently bright; and (c) even drunker, you've got Big Rude Jake. The track "Blue Pariah" is practically a spelling bee unto itself.

By: Ambrosia Voyeur

Ambrosia Voyeur — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:03:20 -0800

a louis wain cat: i am actualy one of the few to have attended a current 93 show. i hated it SO much. flames. on the sides of my face. i am wont to drop into david tibet mocking at parties. "black shipsssss! black shiiipssss!!!1eleven" ... but you give a very accurate and helpful description and there's no accounting for taste!!!

Kensational: It is impossible for me to listen to any more TMBG than I already do. My ringtone is birdhouse, even. I open mix CDs with the kitten intro.

This thread has served my need super well! Thanks everybody! (The Decemberists Show was wonderful, btw.)