Either way, at least I'm close to the border.

October 5, 2006 2:26 PM

Should I move to Seattle or stay in Phoenix?

Here's the deal; I've lived in Arizona practically my entire life. First in Pinetop, where I grew up, and, for the last four years, I've been living in Tempe (Phoenix area). I'm 25 years old.
This decision is killing me. I've always wanted to live in Seattle because I feel it's probably a 'better fit' for me. This is largely something I've probably just imagined as I've never actually been to Seattle, but I'm making a trip next weekend for a few days just to check it out. I know though, from friends I have there, that there's a great music scene, lots of hipsters, and many, many left-leaning people. Living in a town where the biggest musical event every year is 'Country Thunder', this sounds like heaven to me. Add to that the fact that I've already got a beautiful place to stay that's relatively cheap, a couple of friends that have lived there for a few years and who're excited at the prospect of seeing me, and a standing offer that, if I go, all my debt (which is only around 10k, but still) will be paid off by a friend up there. I'll still owe them, but there's no interest or anything like that.
HOWEVER - having grown up here, I've got friends I've had for well over 10 years now. I have a job making pretty good money and alot of security. I've got a girl... sort of. While we're currently on the outs, it may come to be that we mend fences and get back together one day.
Basically, it comes to one thing; I'm scared. Most of the time, I dream of getting as far away from this state as possible. Now that I have a chance, I find myself looking for reasons not to go. What should I do?

posted by Bageena to travel & transportation (35 comments total)

Though this is somewhat along the lines of "should I wear a blue shirt or a red shirt today," I guess I'll take a stab at it.

Do what you think will make you happy. It's about that simple. Nobody is going to know what's going to make you happy but you; it's completely subjective.


Beyond that, from an objective standard it's largely an issue of whether or not you're bored. Sounds like you've got a decent life built for yourself in PHX, but are you bored with it? The debt payoff is nice (though it sounds like a pretty odd offer, fishy even, but I suppose that's another story). If you visit and like the town and are looking for a change, then go. If you don't like it or enjoy your security, stay.
posted by craven_morhead at 2:33 PM on October 5, 2006

I was born and raised in Phoenix and I just moved back after working in the SF Bay Area and NYC for the last three years. I love it here. But I'm glad I spent those three years living outside of Phoenix. If I hadn't at least tried SF or NYC, I would've always wondered if I would've been happier in one of those cities (or with the career path I had in those cities). As it turns out, I'm happier here with my old friends, my family and a less stressful career. It seems like you're young enough to take the risk of finding out for yourself.
posted by mullacc at 2:44 PM on October 5, 2006

a standing offer that, if I go, all my debt (which is only around 10k, but still) will be paid off by a friend up there

What??
posted by timeistight at 2:47 PM on October 5, 2006

Do it! Seattle is awesome, you're the perfect age to pull up stakes and go, why stay your whole life in one place, you're young and can always go back, take a chance, you only live once yadda yadda yadda.

I moved here at 25 on a whim, myself, and 11 years later I'm still loving it here and am glad I came.
posted by tristeza at 2:49 PM on October 5, 2006

Do it.

I was born and raised in Chicago and had no intention of leaving. I loved it. But I followed my heart and took the plunge to move to Albuquerque. That was six years ago. Two years ago that relationship ended. I don't regret it, but it's time to leave.

Here's the thing. You can always go home if it doesn't work out.

I'd just make sure you have something in writing around that offer. I had a similar, no... the exact same offer. I would only take it if we had something in writing about repayment terms, etc.
posted by FlamingBore at 2:54 PM on October 5, 2006

Explanation of the money thing; the person who's working hardest at convincing me to move is an old friend I've known for years. She and her parents are all very wealthy. In the course of her telling me all the reasons I should move, I've told her consistently that I had debts here I couldn't easily walk away from or, rather, pay from afar. If I was to make any sort of move, I'd want to do it with a clean record. So she simply offered to lend me the money to pay it all off and, once I'm up there and established or whatever, start paying her back. I'm good for the money (I'm a bill collector by day so I take my debts pretty seriously) so she knows she can trust me.
Thank you again for your answers. I knew this question would be a difficult one to answer.... more of an Opinionfilter thing I guess. Still, I find that many of ya'll peoples are pretty smart and I'm looking for all the input I can get before making this decision. Especially unbiased opinions from people who don't know me.
posted by Bageena at 3:02 PM on October 5, 2006

At 25, this is definitely something you should do- at worst, you'll be like mullacc and come to appreciate your home city; at best you'll be like so many of us, and end up spending your life here. The "HOWEVER" in your post is mostly a reluctance to give up a life you have now; but you spend far more time talking about how you'd like to live in a city like Seattle.

I grew up in NH, and dropped out of college/"ran away from home" to Seattle when I was 19. I had $200 and a duffel bag, and no idea what I would do when I got here.

It was the best decision I've ever made: Seattle is the perfect baby bear city, and the Pacific Northwest is just... an incredible place to live. Seattle's not too big (NY, LA, etc) such that you feel lost in a concrete jungle, and it's not too small as to seem too provincial. The scenery is incredible, the hilly "neighborhood" feel is comforting, and it's a nice combination of small city/big town. There are the sprawling suburbs of surrounding towns, but the city core is urban and 'cool' without being too gritty: the excess of greenery and water are a wonderful antidote to any city blues; the park system for example was designed by the Olmsted brothers, who also designed NYC's Central Park. You can live in neighborhoods that you don't leave for days, because you can walk to all that you need; yet there's still a lot of city to see.

Everywhere I've ever travelled, even when I've liked it I've always been glad to come home.
posted by hincandenza at 3:04 PM on October 5, 2006

I'm really glad I took the plunge at 25! (I moved here from a southern state to escape the heat and lack of culture)

I like Seattle for all the reasons you mentioned. The summers can't be beat. There's so much culture and diversity.

Though it does get pretty gloomy in the winters! Last winter it rained solid for 28 (?) days straight I think. Every Winter I think of high tailing it outta here.

Housing is also pretty expensive. I've given up on ever having my dream house. Job market is really competive due to it being US's 'most educated city' (more people per capita have masters and ph.Ds). Traffic sucks. Just pointing out the negative things you should probably realize.

You're young though, and by no means tied down. Go for it. Experience as many places as possible. If you hate it you can always go back. I'm sure your AZ network won't forget you!
posted by delladlux at 3:11 PM on October 5, 2006

Grew up in Chicago, lived in both Seattle and Phoenix. I liked the Phoenix weather, but I absolutely LOVED living in Seattle. I would go again in a heartbeat. Give it a whirl. Live life with no regrets. If it doesn't work out, try something else.
posted by bolognius maximus at 3:12 PM on October 5, 2006

Well, Seattle has a better LiveJournal than Phoenix (LiveJournal) and appears MUCH more generous than the denizens of Phoenix based on the freebies in the Craigslist FREE section.

;)
posted by iam2bz2p at 3:14 PM on October 5, 2006

Simple answer: Do it.

Meaning of Life explanation: If you stay in PHX you will always ask 'What would have happened if I went to Seattle when I was 25?' far more often than you would ask 'What would have happened if I'd stayed in PHX when I was 25?' if you went to Seattle.

My personal feelings: It rains in Seattle and it's hot in PHX. I'd move to PHX right now if I could. (Pissing down in Brighton, UK at present.) However, I'm 38 and have spent the past 23 years having a ridiculous amount of fun by wrestling with that feeling you have right now - should I go somewhere? You should. But you've got to be able to convince yourself which is why it's so much fun when you do finally get away.

I can help you convince yourself by offering the following:
You're 25, not even a third of the way thru your life if you play your cards right; you have an easy chance of going to a city you say 'sounds like heaven to me', living in a 'beautiful place' and hanging out with friends who are 'excited' to see you. Those words sound like the words of someone who shouldn't really need much convincing.

Old man advice:
Stand your round, do as you would be done by, call your folks and send them postcards, learn to pay for what you do and try not to do anything you know is too stupid.

Synopsis: Go.
posted by i_cola at 3:21 PM on October 5, 2006

Seriously – if someone wants to set me up in Phoenix, I'm there.
posted by i_cola at 3:22 PM on October 5, 2006

Seattle is an awesome place to live, for reasons you mentioned above and much more. Of course there's the music scene, but there's also great access to cinema - not only are there independent theaters all over the city, we have what's possibly the greatest video store in the world. The food is wonderful too - both for the restaurants and access to fresh food through markets (both pike place downtown, and daily/weekly markets scattered across the rest of the city). There are lots of bars with interesting people and bartenders with good taste in music. It's close to Vancouver and Portland, two cities that are different from Seattle, but just as cool (which makes for good road trips). There's ample space and opportunity for every type of outdoor activity.

Although public transit is mostly buses, it's still super easy to get around without a car.

I think the most difficult part of moving here would be finding friends and building a social network. Many people I know who moved here (myself included) found that it took longer than expected to find/make friends. But it sounds like that won't be a problem for you at all.

Also, if you move here in the late fall/winter, it's going to seem really dreary, as it's the most overcast/rainy time of the year. Things do get better though. The weather is nearly perfect from late spring to early fall.

I moved here when I was 22. Although I probably won't stay forever, I'm really happy that I was able to spend time here, and it will always be one of my favorite places in the world. Of course, you know best what you should do, but if I were in your situation, I'd go for it.
posted by helios at 3:25 PM on October 5, 2006

Seattle is amazing! I went to college here and have just recently moved back after finishing my masters. The music seen is great and if you're into the hipster thing I'm willing to bet Seattle has more overly-tight jeans/emo'd out people per capita than any other city in the country.

Now, where the hell did I put that black eye-liner?
posted by ASM at 3:27 PM on October 5, 2006

Living away from your home state or general area you grew up in is a highly educational experience and an opportunity for personal growth. I recommend it to just about anyone.

Don't think of it as trying to find the perfect place to live the rest of your life; instead think of it as an adventure. Go. Enjoy.

Regarding Seattle specifically - its a nice town, I bet you'll enjoy it. Great art & music scenes, lots of Asian culture & cuisine, and the surrounding landscape is incredible. Just try to be mentally prepared for the grey & wet winters. I think of Phoenix as an extemely sunny place, Seattle is pretty much the opposite 9 months a year. All my friends who live there seem to delve into their various hobbies during the winter and wait for the sun to emerge again. The summers are fabulous, though - sunny & warm with loooong days. (I think the solstice sunset is close to 11pm there!)
posted by Cranialtorque at 3:27 PM on October 5, 2006

One more thing, make sure to stay out of suburban hell on the Eastside...just a word of advice.
posted by ASM at 3:28 PM on October 5, 2006

You're at a good age to try things out, to experiment with where you want to live, and, by extension, who you want to be. Actually, I was 24 when I moved to Seattle, and I've been here 16 years. I say go for it. If it doesn't work out, you can always try somewhere else.
posted by matildaben at 3:34 PM on October 5, 2006

Keep in mind that you're going from somewhere where with one of the lowest precipitation rates in the US to somewhere with one of the highest. That can really wear on some people, me in particular. Also the real estate prices in Seattle are astronomically higher than Phoenix.
posted by mattholomew at 3:46 PM on October 5, 2006

If you start buying condos on capitol hill, I will never forgive you.
posted by car_bomb at 3:46 PM on October 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

Is the only reason you're not going fear? Do you want to live like that?
posted by b33j at 3:47 PM on October 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

It's okay to move away from your roots and security and try Seattle out for awhile.
posted by Hildago at 3:52 PM on October 5, 2006

I myself have no immediate plans to move...but after this thread, I suddenly have a burning desire to move from California to Seattle!

Honestly, your situation sounds pretty good -- you couldn't ask for a better invitation to take an adventure. Do it!

Even if it turns out to be a bust, years from now you will look back and be happy that you did it.
posted by phatkitten at 4:06 PM on October 5, 2006

I'd move anywhere where I had friends willing to just freaking give me ten thousand dollars.
posted by xmutex at 4:27 PM on October 5, 2006

go. I moved from Montreal to Vancouver 15 years ago and had the very same fears.

When I was in the grip of uncertainty, prior to making that commitment - I reminded myself that if things didn't turn out well, I could always come back.

I moved there for a year, maybe two. 15 years later, I am still here.
posted by seawallrunner at 4:49 PM on October 5, 2006

I faced much the same decision six years ago, except I was moving from Detroit. Seattle is way better than Detroit, but I knew lots of people in Detroit and hardly anyone in Seattle. To a man, however, my Detroit friends told me I'd be stupid not to take advantage of the opportunity. And it has been the best move I've ever made.

You're younger than I was then. If you want to move here, do it.

One more thing, make sure to stay out of suburban hell on the Eastside...just a word of advice.

"Hell?" Really, the suburbs here are pretty nice compared to suburbs in a lot of the country. Of course you'll want to live in the city if you're looking for music and hipsters, you don't sound much like a suburban type, but it's not like the suburbs are really awful or anything. Some of them are very quiet, which, as you get older and/or have a family, may begin to appeal. For example, Bellevue, where I live, famously went something like 15 years without a murder in the city limits in the late 1900s, and in 2003 had 1.4 incidents of violent crime per 1000 residents, none of which were murders (compared to 6.8/1000 violent crime incidents and 34 murders for Seattle). Of course there is also virtually no music scene in Bellevue, so there you are.

What IS hell is the commute if you live on the Eastside and work in Seattle (or vice versa), so avoid that at all costs.
posted by kindall at 5:17 PM on October 5, 2006

Keep in mind that you're going from somewhere where with one of the lowest precipitation rates in the US to somewhere with one of the highest.

In terms of total annual precipitation , Seattle's actually well below average (38 inches, compared to 47 for New York City). Of course, the number of cloudy days is pretty high (226 for Seattle vs. 132 for NYC). Also, as it's well to the north of Phoenix, you'll find that Seattle's winter days are noticeably shorter than you're used to. On the plus side, it rarely snows. Fair trade for me, since I came here from Detroit.
posted by kindall at 5:29 PM on October 5, 2006

Seattle's not nearly as rainy as the jokes would have you think. It's foggy and misty, and very bad on you if you'd got seasonal depression. The winters will break your heart, but the spring will make you fall in love again.

The other thing is that we need to stop convincing people to move here until we get a mass transportation infrastructure.
posted by Hildago at 6:12 PM on October 5, 2006

Weirdly, I am in exactly the same position as you: 25 years old, have lived in the Washington, D.C. area my whole life, thinking about moving to Seattle, and am visiting there next week to check it out. (Maybe I'll run into you!)

I've been thinking about the "should I stay or should I go" question a lot too and, for what it's worth, here's how I've decided I'm going to go about making this decision.

I'm going to go to Seattle and get a feel for whether it's the perfect-fit utopia I've come to think of it as. If it's just OK, that makes the decision easier to stay in D.C. If it's amazing, here's the question I'm going to try to honestly answer for myself: is the potential amazingness of Seattle such that, if I decide to stay in D.C., a few years down the road I will regret not giving Seattle a try?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, take the path of least regret. If, based on your visit there, you think you will regret not trying Seattle, then go for it. If you live there for a year or two and it doesn't stick, you can return to Arizona and it's likely the network you've built up in that state will not have disappeared during your short absence.

Good luck!
posted by hazelshade at 7:24 PM on October 5, 2006

Given the best answers you marked, it sounds like you don't more convincing.

Just wanted to add the following -- two things may be difficult to deal with (but should in no way dissuade you from going, for all the great reasons people have cited already). A lot of people find it tough to make friends in Seattle, and the lack of sun in the winter is pretty extreme.

But if you've already got friends there, you needn't worry about the first part. Once you have a friend or two, it can really start rolling.

As for the sun issue, don't be suprised if you find yourself (at times, not all the time) listless, depressive, and homesick. Especially the first winter or two. You're used to LOTS AND LOTS of sunlight, so it won't be an insignificant adjustment. (But the springs & summers are soooo beautiful). Also, don't neglect to visit Vancouver, especially during the dark winter months. Not that the weather is better, but it's a much more colorful city (literally, I'm talking about the way the city is physically decorated; it's amazing what a few brightly-colored buildings can do for one's mood).
posted by treepour at 7:27 PM on October 5, 2006

Ask yourseld, what's the absolute worst thing that could happen if you move? If you hate it, you move back. What's the big deal? Just do it, don't be silly. (and this is from someone who moved >1000 miles, HATED it, and would STILL do it again)
posted by biscotti at 7:29 PM on October 5, 2006

Seattle vs Phoenix?

Seattle.
posted by iconjack at 7:42 PM on October 5, 2006

I can't speak to Phoenix but have lived in Seattle for 9 years (moved here also at 25). I moved from a smaller town (Spokane) so it felt like moving to the big city. also, the climate wasn't as drastic as it would be for you.

I think Seattle is a "love it" and thrive (or hate it and leave) place. It's got a really interesting energy that folks either enjoy or abhor! Two examples I've heard repeatedly: "There is less racism in Seattle. BUT when there is racism, it's usually behind your back." Or I've heard, "Seattle is a really hard town to make close friends in." This is just anecdotal. Your experience may vary from theirs (and hopefully it will).

During summer, there's no prettier city to me. But the fall and winter and spring all hold some sort of magic too. It's a great, unique town.

Plus, Phoenix is still close enough that you'll still be able to visit your friends and family. I think there are a lot of mefi'ers here in Seattle who could answer more questions, too.

I was just down in New Orleans and chatted up some strangers in a bar. One was from Biloxi and the other DC but met in N.O. and decided to rendezvous for the weekend. They had been together two months. I asked if about politics in New Orleans and that somehow elicited a poll about "dem or repub". The new couple looked at each and said, "Huh, we've never talked about this before..." That struck as me as SOO odd. I remarked, "That would just NEVER happen in Seattle." Seattle is fairly lefty and in my world, there seems to be this odd asumption that everyone is liberal. (I like it that way, but it just seems odd).
posted by Bear at 7:53 PM on October 5, 2006

Stay in Phoenix. If you move to Seattle the sudden influx of moisture will most definitely size you up a couple a....
posted by sgobbare at 8:01 PM on October 5, 2006

Winters can be depressingly gray, but it's a myth that it's always rainy in Seattle. We average less than 40 inches per year. Summers are usually glorious. The hilltops, like Queen Anne and Capitol Hill tend to be more blustery than lower-lying Fremont and Ballard.

It's America's most literate city and also consistently ranks as one of the fittest.

The Seattle social chill is real. People are friendly but not warm or talkative. You can spend every evening in Linda's Tavern for years and the bartender will never bother to learn your name. Aloofness is almost a sport in this town.
posted by laptop_lizard at 1:55 AM on October 6, 2006

Do it while you have a soft place to land. My husband and I have been planning to move (back, for him) to Seattle pretty much since we got together, and it's a lot harder with the two careers and the dogs and the car payments and the stuff and the timing, and so we've roasted through another awful Dallas summer waiting for the stars to align.

Go. If you find you don't like it, you don't have to stay, but go and see.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:18 AM on October 6, 2006