Is it ok to release a non-native spider into the local ecosystem?

October 4, 2006 9:15 AM

Is it ok to release a non-native spider into the ecosystem? Specifically, a red backed jumping spider (Phidippus johnsoni), which is native to the U.S. west coast into suburban Massachusetts. The spider made its journey as a stowaway in a bag of grapes. I should also mention that it is a female, so conceivably could be carrying fertilized eggs.
posted by Java_Man to science & nature (51 comments total)

No.
posted by unSane at 9:22 AM on October 4, 2006

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! NO! Eww!

Flush it!

(I'm pretty sure my wildlife-biology-Masters-student sister would agree with the rational part of my suggestion.)
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 9:22 AM on October 4, 2006

No. As much as I applaud your concern for nature, you should be more concerned about the potential consequences of invasive species. Squish the little bugger and be done with it.
posted by chrisamiller at 9:24 AM on October 4, 2006

Not okay.
posted by dead_ at 9:25 AM on October 4, 2006

No. (duh)
posted by Rumple at 9:25 AM on October 4, 2006

No. Kill the bug.
posted by hot soup girl at 9:28 AM on October 4, 2006

I love those little red backs, but no, don't release it. the invasive species problems are not worth the life of one bug.
posted by Iron Rat at 9:30 AM on October 4, 2006

I think there was something in one of the Star Trek movies about this - it's better for one to die than to risk the lives of many.
posted by MrZero at 9:31 AM on October 4, 2006

Is there any reason not to smash it?
posted by Justinian at 9:38 AM on October 4, 2006

NIMBY!
posted by paxton at 9:38 AM on October 4, 2006

I am a vegetarian, yet also an arachnophobe. Kill it.
posted by The Michael The at 9:44 AM on October 4, 2006

OH MY, NO. Burn it. Then pee on the ashes. Then burn the pee.
posted by Greg Nog at 9:44 AM on October 4, 2006 [4 favorites has favorites]

Instead of killing it or releasing it maybe you should keep it in a terrarium and see what happens.
posted by dgeiser13 at 9:57 AM on October 4, 2006

You can't possibly be the only method of transport across the continent. I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other. No doubt some have made it to MA and there's no apparent invasive behavior. But if I found a bug in my house I'd squish it in a napkin and be done with it. You can bet I'd not ask a bunch of strangers what they thought about it.
posted by kc0dxh at 10:06 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Watch the movie Arachnophobia and then kill it.
posted by JJ86 at 10:22 AM on October 4, 2006

Sweet Creeping Zombie Jesus - kill it, then mail it back to Cali with note saying "Stay out of MA, foo'."

i'm in ur grapes laying my eggs

Ha! This is why I spray all my food with RAID before I eat it.

/not really.
posted by unixrat at 10:27 AM on October 4, 2006

why are you guys so dang bloodthirsty?

I never kill anything unless it's biting me. The cockroach I flushed haunted my dreams (not a pretty thing).

However. .. . I like the way Mr Zero put it:

it's better for one to die than to risk the lives of many.
posted by changeling at 10:31 AM on October 4, 2006

Dang it, if you're going to make life imitate Star Trek, at least do it right.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
--Spock, The Wrath of Khan
posted by kc0dxh at 10:37 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

I agree with kc0dxh, this can't be the first time this particular kind of spider has made this particular journey...

Moreso, if this were the first time... I personally would go forward with the experiment. Sure something disastrous and horrible and catastrophic might happen; but on the flip-side... maybe it wouldn't?
posted by cusack at 10:41 AM on October 4, 2006

Aw, don't kill it. It's not going to take over an ecosystem all by itself. If you had a suitcase full of them, that might be a different story...
posted by 912 Greens at 10:54 AM on October 4, 2006

Maybe I should have posed it another way, does anyone have any information on the dangers of releasing non-native species into a local ecosystem where there exists a strong unregulated (or virtually unregulated) transportational infrastructure between those two points that has existed for many years (e.g. in this case, over a century)? Particularly something that touches upon the differing types of climates and/or species (or similar species and climates) of the ones in question, etc.
posted by Java_Man at 10:56 AM on October 4, 2006

Either kill it, or keep it in a jar and put a cricket in there and see what happens then kill it.
posted by BobbyDigital at 11:11 AM on October 4, 2006

Javaman, just squish it already!!!
posted by ramix at 11:12 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Release it. As others have said, it can't be the first to make the journey and since you took the time to identify the spider, determine it's origin, and post this question, you are clearly not someone who wants to take the critters life.

If you are really worried about the impact of releasing it, follow dgeiser13's suggestion and set up a little terrarium.

Call her 'Hoppy'.
posted by quin at 11:21 AM on October 4, 2006

Follow up: I think the problem you may encounter when looking for this kind of information is that if there is a strong unregulated (or virtually unregulated) transportational infrastructure, it's going to be difficult to empirically track the effect of an invasive species. There is no control to see how many were introduced and at what time.

The best I could suggest would be to look at the introduction of the cane toad in Australia. I'm sure it wasn't introduced to the entire continent, it had a staging point and spread out from there.

The problem with this example is that it more strongly filled an ecological niche than several native species, I don't think your spider would have the same impact.
posted by quin at 11:33 AM on October 4, 2006

If you had more I'd recommend you make a soup, but if you only have one, kill it. Apologize to it first and then kill it.
posted by terrapin at 11:38 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Let it go. There are White African Ants and Brown Recluse Spiders in Harvard Square for chrissakes. Can't hurt nobody, and gets all them entymology types all worked up. Fun for everyone.
posted by Gungho at 12:44 PM on October 4, 2006

It's poor reasoning to use the Law of Probably to say that this is probably not the first spider of its kind to be introduced into your environment.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:48 PM on October 4, 2006

Check this out.
posted by changeling at 12:49 PM on October 4, 2006

Scientists tell us spiders play a vital role in the ecosystem. They kill pests, keep nasty bugs like mosquitos in check and spin beautiful webs that keep pigs from being slaughtered.

That being said: Science is wrong. Spiders are bloodthirsty killers. If you release her, she will come back late one night and take your firstborn from you. Then she'll come back for your pets. Then, she'll come for you. Rest assured, if a spider accidentally brought Java_man from California to Mass. in a bag of grapes, she wouldn't think twice before squashing you.
posted by Happydaz at 12:49 PM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Have you killed it yet? Do you need someone to come over and kill it for you?

'Cause I'll do it for free.
posted by unixrat at 1:03 PM on October 4, 2006

I think you should let it go in the garden. If it was a different land mass, I'd say kill it. But it's the same country, a very motivated spider could have walked of its own accord.

(Ok, maybe not, but over several generations a family could have made the journey. Like a giant slower than light spaceship travelling between stars, only with no people, and no stars).
posted by The Monkey at 1:41 PM on October 4, 2006

I'm going to argue against killing it.

If you're going to kill it, though, don't salve your conscience by appointing yourself representative of the ecosystem. You don't know the effects of releasing this spider. No one does.

If you're going to be the sort of planetary inhabitant who just randomly kills everything and anything that comes into your path, fine - it's quite trendy these days - but don't try to soft-soap it.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:41 PM on October 4, 2006

The best I could suggest would be to look at the introduction of the cane toad in Australia.

A few examples of introduced species with a negative impact, all in New Zealand...

• Gorse
• Ferrets
• Rabbits
• Possums
• Cats
• Deer
• Varroa Mite
• Southern Salt Marsh Mosquito
• Didymo
• Rats

However, these are all from other land masses, not being moved from one part of the country to another.
posted by The Monkey at 1:47 PM on October 4, 2006

Wikipedia article on invasive species.

Kill it now.
posted by LarryC at 2:01 PM on October 4, 2006

The Monkey, you forgot moose. Then again, their impact isn't negative so much as mysterious.

I wouldn't bother killing it, but I wouldn't go out of my way not to kill it either.
posted by Alterscape at 3:16 PM on October 4, 2006

Ikkyu2, it's a spider not a new intelligent alien species! Randomly killing everything that crosses his path? It's a SPIDER not a new intelligent alien species.

Smash it, then burn it.
posted by Justinian at 3:31 PM on October 4, 2006

The question is bigger than just the one spider. The addition of your new pal and successful hitchhiker could do one of several things that might be less than desireable. Your spider could tip the balance between a low-level just hanging in there population of other red-backed jumping spiders to one that has enought spiders to cause a massive population boom (i.e. create a critical mass needed for exponentail growth and a nuisance population of nonnative species). Or your spider might be carrying a parasite or pathogen that is especially lethal to your native MA arachnids. Then again it might not cause any problems. But why risk it? The US already spends billions each year to combat invasive species and that is just a drop in the bucket compared to the economic and environmental costs we shoulder because of invaders.

In general, it is never a good idea to release a non-native species into a new system. We don't have to go as far as New Zealand to see this. In the western US we are plagued by all sorts of species from the eastern US that were intentionally introduced or just hitchhiked over. Examples include: American bullfrong (Rana catesbeiana), rusty crayfish (Orconectes rusticus), American shad (Alosa sapidisima) and smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora).
posted by rosebengal at 3:34 PM on October 4, 2006

I've come back to say....
Is it dead yet?
posted by ramix at 3:36 PM on October 4, 2006

Kill.
posted by Dick Paris at 3:46 PM on October 4, 2006

Kill it, but on the other hand... how cool would it be if that species of spider totally overtook California and you knew that it was all because of you?
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 4:31 PM on October 4, 2006

Kill. It. Now.

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
posted by lalochezia at 5:06 PM on October 4, 2006

I vote terrarium.

You seem not to want to kill the spider. A terrarium would quarantine her effectively. It's not just the spider herself, but any mites she could be carrying, or diseases that she's immune to and local six-to-eight leggers are not.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:18 PM on October 4, 2006

43 posts and 22 (or so) of them are advocating killing. Wow, changeling is right, AskMe is bloodthirsty today.

Just out of curiosity, is it an arachnophobia thing? Would we be advocating this if it was a strange species of mouse or bird?
posted by quin at 6:04 PM on October 4, 2006

Just out of curiosity, is it an arachnophobia thing? Would we be advocating this if it was a strange species of mouse or bird?

This isn't a strange species, this is an alien species. We've seem the damage that this can do, heard many examples in the thread, and are advocating the best course of action.

OTOH, submitter can plant some kudzu in their backyard to keep it company, if they're not concerned about this sort of thing.
posted by unixrat at 6:50 PM on October 4, 2006

Biker #2: I say we kill him!
Biker Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
Biker #3: I say we hang him, then we kill him!
Biker Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
Biker #4: I say we stomp him!
Biker Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
Biker #4: Then we tattoo him!
Biker Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
Biker #4: Then we hang him!
Biker Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
Biker #4: And then we kill him!
Biker Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
Pee-wee Spider: [trying to throw voice without moving lips] I say we let him go.
Biker Gang: [shouts] No!
Biker Mama: [whistles] I say you let me have him first
Biker Gang: Yeah!
posted by RussHy at 8:08 PM on October 4, 2006

I vote for killing. I am Pro-Squish when it comes to invasive spiders.
posted by spinifex23 at 10:20 PM on October 4, 2006

kc0dxh writes "Dang it, if you're going to make life imitate Star Trek, at least do it right.

"'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.'"


Dang it, if you're going to quote "Spock", at least credit Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill.
posted by orthogonality at 10:28 PM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

In good conscience, you can't release it because you don't know where it's been (it could have something the locals can't handle), and you don't want to read in the paper 30 years from now they took over several states.

Just keep it in a terrarium and take good care of it. You can buy crickets in the winter to feed it, and they're probably cleaner than wild-caught crickets anyway, since you care about the quality of her life. How long can it live, a year? This is not a lifetime comittment, if you want to keep it, keep it. (But please, stuff cotton balls in the air holes, as you do not want to get up some morning and discover her progeny are small enough to escape.)

I think this is one of those times when "giving it back to God to take care of" is just not the right thing. That only works if it came from around here and has a lot of friends to play with. Yes, I have spent far too much time explaining nature to children, why do you ask?
posted by unrepentanthippie at 5:45 AM on October 5, 2006

Would we be advocating this if it was a strange species of mouse or bird?

If I ever found a strange species of mouse or bird in a bag of grapes or other store-bought food item, I would call animal control and have THEM decide the fate of the beast. I would make this call from outside my house, as I would probably have run out of it mindlessly screaming. My guess is animal control would kill first and autopsy later.

I would also alert the grocery store, and investigate the possibility of a refund. It's probably not worth it for a spider, but it damn well would be for a bird or mouse. What the hell kind of question is that? Has anyone ever brought home a bird or mouse from the grocery store by accident?
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 7:46 AM on October 5, 2006

I did some research yesterday to try to discover if this little guy had gotten out before. Interesting that while folks had mentioned the pains of alien species in New Zealand, nobody mentioned that this very spider came across to NZ via grapes. Apparently this "spiders on grapes on a plane" thing became a big enough deal for NZ to shut that shit down in 2001. This page seems to indicate that the California Grape Spider Export market is booming and the result of our hippie agricultural methods, but I have a hard time believing the veracity of anything indicating that it is "the TRUTH".

I think your question ran hard into the "ick" factor before it ran into anything resembling relevance. I'm sure if you said "I've found this cute little bunny with a pancake on its head in my trunk which must have secreted its way into my car and..." I doubt few people would be advising "club it! club it!"

Also, I don't know that terrariuming it is such a good idea if you're really concerned about release/mites/parasites/OMG ECODISASTER. Small fast things have a tendency to get lost -- with great speed. (Hey, its a pretty cool spider. I say let it take over, but then again, in theory, I'm in the heartland for that stuff, so whatever).

FWIW, mail it back to someone here and have them release it for you. Should manage OK for a couple of days in a well-sealed container....
posted by Ogre Lawless at 11:36 AM on October 5, 2006