Should I pay $500 for to replace my engine?

September 21, 2006 6:59 PM

Short story: I got a tune up including an oil change. That night, the car died, and now they say the engine needs to be replaced?

Sorry about this--I want to provide a lot of detail, and I'm actually asking three questions here. I hope that ya'll have some advice for me, though, because I'm having a hell of a time on my own. Here goes:

Much longer story: Back in 1995 My father used his new car as collateral for a business loan. Several years later he moved across the country, and a year after that he defaulted on the loan. The bank, naturally, demanded the car, and my dad told them his address, but no one ever came to repossess it--by this time the worth of the car was probably a lot less than the cost of sending a bank employee across the country. Shortly thereafter the bank was bought by a larger bank which was, in turn, bought by an even larger one. Last year he bought a new car and gave the old one to me.

I say all this to explain why, although I don't believe that anyone in the world cares that I have this car, I still do not have (and most likely cannot obtain) the title. The car, by the way, is a 1995 Ford Escort.

Fast forward to last Tuesday. In preparation for a road trip to New Jersey from Chicago I took the car to a mechanic (Brakes 4 Le$$) and asked for a complete tune-up. For $450 they did a bunch of work on the brakes, replaced the spark plugs, did a complete oil change (I think it was the first in a year) and pronounced the car ready for the trip. Yesterday night I picked it up, drove it twenty miles, stopped at a gas station to buy a soda, and then it wouldn't start again.

The gas station where it died took a look this morning and said that the whole engine would need to be replaced, and he said he'd get some quotes but that it would be around $1800. I paid for a tow back to Brakes 4 Le$$, who also looked at it and agreed that it was the engine (I think that, specifically, the oil pump was broken. Does that sound right?). The guy there said, "I tell you what, we can fix it all for $980, and that will include the work we've already done". Essentially, that will mean paying him another $540 for the new engine, which is a lot less than $1800.

Now, finally, the question.

• He did a full tune-up, but never noticed that my engine was about to die. Could this be an honest mistake, or does it mean that he's totally untrustworthy?
• If he is trustworthy, should I risk giving him another $500? Maybe not noticing the dying engine is understandable, or maybe I'd be throwing away a thousand bucks, I can't tell.
• If I decide not to ask Brakes 4 Le$$ to do the work, I probably won't find anyone cheaper--I get the idea that $500 is a pretty good deal. In this case, I would be giving up on the car. If I give up on the car, what should I do with it? I don't have the title, and I really don't want my father to get in trouble if I just leave it sitting somewhere. Some bank somewhere technically owns the vehicle, but it was registered to my dad every year up to two years ago...

posted by Squid Voltaire to travel & transportation (18 comments total)

Back up from the fast forward a bit. Has the car been in regular use recently? How many miles on it? (Not that I'll have an answer - I don't, I'm afraid, but recent history seems relevant.)

Still, a full tune-up wouldn't include checking the oil pump, if that's in fact what has failed. Are we sure the oil was refilled?
posted by Snerd at 7:09 PM on September 21, 2006

I find that "tune-up" is a highly variable thing depending on the disposition of the guy doing the work. Regardless, however, you're pretty much stuck with the guy if you want the repairs done, because you aren't in a position to verify anything he's telling you. The repair could be as simple as unclogging a fuel line, or it could be a complete rebuild, you're going to pay the price he quoted you, or thereabouts. If he quoted you that price without taking a good hour or two to look things over, he doesn't know what's wrong either and plans to just start replacing things until it starts working again.

In any case, if the car has any kind of miles on it, you've most likely got a money pit on your hands and need to decide just how much, for how long, and how soon you need a vehicle. If money's the main concern but you have to have wheels, fixing it might be the best gamble, but you're going to have these problems again within a year, so you should make arrangements between now and then.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 7:17 PM on September 21, 2006

The oil pump is located in the oil pan (on most vehicles, I believe) and would not be checked as part of a tune-up, which typically involves just replacing the spark plugs and wires. Engine oil can start to create deposits in the engine and oil filter if not changed in a long time, which can also cause the pump to fail. My vote is that the first auto shop is not to blame in the slightest. (The car was probably in deep trouble before you ever took it to the mechanic)

As far as a $500 engine is concerned, I would be extraordinarily wary of such an inexpensive engine.

My instinct would be to give up on the car - what else hasn't been maintained? Is the brake fluid so contaminated that the master cylinder or slave cylinders are about to go bad? What about the power steering fluid? Has the timing belt been replaced? I think a further inspection would lead to the conclusion that the car would require far, far more money than it would be worth. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for a new vehicle.
posted by jeffrygardner at 7:20 PM on September 21, 2006

Really if the engine is old and the car is high mileage, there's no way to tell what exactly happened without doing an autopsy. There's just not going to be any way for anyone to know. The question is how to get it fixed.

Two things ring a bell for me... (1) those brake places (as well as most tire, muffler, and oil service shops) are arguably not a good place for major repairs especially at a place that has high turnover, and (2) a bell has gone off in my head about the first mechanic, even though my suspicions are only dim. I would eat the tow costs and make a Herculean effort to find a no-frills, down and dirty car repair shop, the kind that's small and busy and doesn't advertise much.
posted by zek at 7:31 PM on September 21, 2006

First off $500 isn't getting you a new engine, not even a rebuilt engine. The labour and shop costs alone would run $500. Quoting a new engine at that price sends up flags for me. He might be putting in a good used engine for that price.

$500 also might get you a new oil pump installed if it is changable in place. A defective oil pump can sometimes prevent an engine from starting though a pump usually goes out with a bang.

"He did a full tune-up, but never noticed that my engine was about to die. Could this be an honest mistake, or does it mean that he's totally untrustworthy? "

Depending on the exact nature of the failure it might not have been detectable during a tune up. A tune up is mostly electrical and intake and doesn't really touch the mechanical bits of the engine.

As far as disposing of the car if you go that route most places if you flip the yellow pages open to auto wrecking there will be several places who will pay modest sums for a car even in non running condition. I'm not sure whether the lack of a title is a problem.
posted by Mitheral at 7:31 PM on September 21, 2006

Zek: I think you're right about the smaller repair shop, but I would also assert that a job worth paying for at all is a job that you may want to go all the way, using ASE Certified Mechanics and offering a nation-wide warranty. Shadetree mechanics can be every bit as talented as the big auto shop guys, but will they be able to back it up if something goes awry?

I am still in favor of losing the vehicle, but if you plan on paying for repairs, just be sure to assess what is more important to you.

note: I am currently employed as a salesman in a national auto repair facility, so my view may be slightly biased)
posted by jeffrygardner at 7:39 PM on September 21, 2006

If you don't have the title to the car, how can you have registered it?
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:48 PM on September 21, 2006

Good advice so far on the repairs, I think.

This might be a naive question (or off-topic, in which case feel free to ignore/delete), considering that I haven't owned a car for 15 years, but I am genuinely curious: isn't it a bit risky to undertake a multi-state road trip in an unregistered vehicle? (Or is the title not required to register a vehicle in Illinois?)
posted by trip and a half at 7:49 PM on September 21, 2006

(Sorry; my cmt above not meant as snark. I just mean, if you CAN register a car where you are without having the title, them maybe you can just give the car away/sell it. Explain the title history on the car to the recipient of course. But if they WOULDN'T be able to register it, then you don't have any hope of getting anything for it so the repair issue becomes more urgent.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:54 PM on September 21, 2006

He did a full tune-up, but never noticed that my engine was about to die.

a tune up and an oil change doesn't involve actually opening up the engine, so, although he might have been able to tell you that your engine wasn't in good shape, that doesn't mean he could have known it was about to die

If he is trustworthy, should I risk giving him another $500?

for an oil pump, or an engine? ... perhaps getting an oil pump from him for 500 isn't out of bounds, but i can't imagine your getting an engine for that ... and frankly, i doubt that a mechanic that works at a brake place is really qualified to do that

i know of regular garages who won't touch engine work because it's too tricky and time-consuming

zek - there's no way to tell what exactly happened without doing an autopsy.

and an autopsy is going to cost a few hundred

first, i think squid voltaire need to clarify if it's the engine or the oil pump ... *maybe* he should fix the oil pump, depending on what the rest of the car is like ... i don't advise he bother with an engine

mitheral - I'm not sure whether the lack of a title is a problem.

i've disposed of cars through salvage companies in michigan ... they wanted the title signed over ... sometimes, it's a trade - they get the car, you get a free tow ... sometimes, you might get 25-50 bucks in addition to the free tow

i have no idea how he'd get rid of it without the title
posted by pyramid termite at 7:58 PM on September 21, 2006

Yes, my comment was not meant to be snark, either. I cross-posted with LobsterMitten with basically the same concern.
posted by trip and a half at 7:58 PM on September 21, 2006

I got a tune up including an oil change. That night, the car died

All those fresh fluids and wires disrupted what was a functioning system at that point. Tipped it out of balance.
95's were mostly built in '94, so the car is 12 yrs old and you did not mention the mileage. There is no reason to put even a rebuilt engine into this car and drive off into the American heartland. Strangers are not always kind.
posted by longsleeves at 8:12 PM on September 21, 2006

isn't it a bit risky to undertake a multi-state road trip in an unregistered vehicle?

If the bank holds the title and hasn't given you permission to drive it, it is probably technically stolen. Paying for any repairs is not a good idea.
posted by b1tr0t at 8:19 PM on September 21, 2006

also, KBB thinks that a basic '95 escort with 100k miles is worth $500 - $900. Rid yourself of the car and get a different one.
posted by b1tr0t at 8:24 PM on September 21, 2006

Be wary of the small-shop mechanics. If I were in your position I would have it towed to the local Ford dealer that does repairs. Their mechanics know these cars inside and out and will not give you the run-around. The Ford dealer/shop in Brooklyn does great work but they are not cheap.
posted by camworld at 10:06 AM on September 22, 2006

That's fantastic, thank you all. So it turns out that the $540 figure was the price of the new (well, ok, it has 80,000 miles on it, so new by comparison) engine. It would be around $1000 with the labor.

So, first off thanks for the vote of confidence about the tune-up, he seemed like a nice guy, but I couldn't be sure that I could trust him if he missed something so obvious. As it was not, in fact, obvious, I'll go back to trusting him (and the other shop, who also said it was a dead engine).

Secondly, thanks for the Blue Book link.

To answer your question, nope, I've been driving an unregistered car for the last year. If I ever have to park it on the street it often gets a ticket. The one time I did get pulled over by a cop (the day after Thanksgiving--they were pulling over a lot of people just to make sure they weren't drunk) he only asked to see insurance, but maybe I was lucky.

On the whole it's really going to suck not having a car, but it's not worth $1000... not to mention the money I'll saved in car insurance ($70 a month for an unregistered auto) and parking tickets. [sigh]. The mechanic said that he could send it to dead-car-heaven for me without the title, so that's what I'll have to do.

Thanks again.
posted by Squid Voltaire at 11:07 AM on September 22, 2006

Note that there's tons and tons of places you can donate a car to (may or may not require you to have a title, better check first)--and you get to write it off your taxes. Barring that, you can always call the local junkyard/auto recycling and they'll cart it off and hand you some money; I imagine this does not require a title.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:10 PM on September 22, 2006

Barring that, you can always call the local junkyard/auto recycling and they'll cart it off and hand you some money; I imagine this does not require a title.

So, you are saying I can make some quick bucks by towing random cars to the junkyard and selling them? Just like Grand Theft Auto? Cool!
posted by b1tr0t at 8:15 PM on September 22, 2006